catastrophe: chase bank froze my accounts

[DJ54]

I’ve a Chase Bank customer since 1990 it was Washington Mutual when first opened. I lived in China at the time (10 years total) had a US address etc.

 

Went online to do my banking and couldn’t access told I’d 

have to visit a branch. Called my branch where account was set up.

was told by four persons in chain of command you’ll have to branch.  

 

Finally I got to the manager and he said it’s been reported the account holder is deceased. I went round and round with the Executive and ultimately ended you’ll have to go to a branch. There were no Chase banks in China at the time. 

 

Luckily I was schedule to US in a couple of days and used credit cards to survive. Went to the branch talked to the manager he called and at one point got angry and told them he’s standing in front of me he’s not dead. Drivers license (3 countries) passport etc. Nope he needs to go to 

Social Security and get a letter he’s not dead. 

 

Go to social security and they said we can’t give you a letter your not dead but we can give letter that you or no one else has filed for benefits. 

Went to the bank OKd back to normal. 

 

Six months later couldn’t access account online. Called the bank and they said you need to come to branch. I lost it and told the. Let me guess because I’m dead again. It didn’t end there. 

 

Luckily I just returned to China from being in US a day prior. Went to the bank while in US to set up something and spent an hour at the branch. The bank associate had given me his card. Called the your dead guy back he conferenced me and the associate. The dead guy asked associate and he said all I can tell you he was at branch yesterday and he wasn’t dead. It was opened again. 

 

They put a note on the account that it happened twice. It’s not happened again.

 

Maybe there’s just some weird stuff happens sometimes. Sorry for the long reply...

 

 

[Pib]

5 hours ago, daij1944 said:

they wouldn't tell me why but it happened as i got an email that my wire transfer was rejected

And you may never know the specific reason that triggered the bank account freeze because generally banks/credit card companies will not talk in any detail regarding the fraud alert measures they use....the exact reason your account was frozen.    If they did all to often those details end up on social media which helps bad guys develop workarounds.

 

Now if the bank don't release the freeze via your long distance communications with them I would  hope they would tell you why, but may still beat around the bush with specifics.   A lot depends on exactly what triggered the freeze.  It might be an event your particular bank considers very suspicious while another bank may not find it suspicious at all.   But based on the conversations/feedback you've had so far with your bank they seem to be playing hardball....just gotta have some ID. 

 

Just to quote below a couple of U.S. bank/card companies regarding their security measures to detect fraudulent transactions...please note they will only talk in generalities and not in specifics.    So, when talking to your bank's rep on the freeze just keep in mind the rep may not give you any good details...or at least the level of detail you may want...they are simply not allowed to in many cases to protect bank security measures. 

 

Continue the conversion with that in mind even though you probably want to ring their neck (I usually do).   Although they may not give you any details, your conversation with them will hopefully be enough for them to release the account and code the account to where it don't have again (or at least anytime soon).   Good luck.  Hope your daughter's visit to a branch helps.

 

Partial Quotes.

Quote

Bank of America said while it monitors accounts for fraud around the clock, “We don’t talk about the measures we have in place for reasons of security.”

Quote

“We have multilayered defenses with enhanced fraud monitoring in place,” Capital One Managing Vice President of U.S. Cards Sarah Strauss said in an email statement.  Suspicious transactions may result in contacting the customer for confirmation of the transaction.

 

Edited April 1, 2018 by Pib

[Wake Up]

I am a Chase private client. Two years ago they required me to go to an office to sign two papers to do wire transfers to Asia.  Change of policy after losing so much money to scammers and the USA government reporting controlls for banks. You want to do wire transfers then you have to make a trip to USA or maybe they will grant you an extension to sign the papers at the USA embassy and mail them to Chase. My long time banker could not get this issue waive for me.  Unltimately on a trip home to USA I stopped at the bank and it took 5 minutes. Good news is wire transfers are free for private client members. 

Edited April 1, 2018 by Wake Up

[dontoearth]

On 3/31/2018 at 4:38 PM, Jingthing said:

Not to you, no.

I would be very surprised if you can fix this without doing exactly what they told you would fix it, and nothing short of that.

But good luck.

 

I can post something to future expats. Be paranoid because U.S. financial institutions really don't like expats. Open multiple U.S. bank accounts BEFORE you move and have multiple BACKUP plans. I've been here a long time. I did that and have lost use of the majority of the accounts I opened before moving here. If I had not, I would be screwed. If I lose more, I can still be screwed. Opening U.S. accounts after already being an expat is not something that can be normally done. 

   I keep two ATM's and two credit cards all from different companies to be on the safe side.   My small local bank locked my ATM card last weekend in Bali.  I made a monday morning call to the states on a skype phone and supplied lots of security information and got the ATM turned back on.  My USBank (name of some big damned bank in the midwest) told me to come in as soon as I returned and bring plenty of ID.   I plan on it and plan on closing the account that day.

     

[dontoearth]

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You're dreaming.

All of that together, especially filing state tax returns as a state resident is EXACTLY faking being a U.S. resident.

Also when you renew your driver's license you generally have to sign a formal document that you are currently a state resident. 

That might be a serious legal issue if caught lying about that.

It's one thing faking being a U.S. resident, it's another thing being in DENIAL about it. 

      Seriously, most states give an ID with just two piece of 'proof'.  That can be as little as a letter mailed to a friend in care of....and a handwritten receipt from someone.  And many states now are moving forward with ID cards that don't require addresses to help those that are transient workers etc.  My city Chicago in Illinois has a program at the public library branches.

       It is probably not the same in the 'RED STATES."  I would agree with that.

 

[ericthai]

9 hours ago, daij1944 said:

many thanks to everyone. does anyone have any idea why the wire transfer might have triggered the freeze? 

sorry no idea why the freeze.   Another suggestion is next time you are in the USA get a power of attorney to allow your daughter or whoever you trust to be able to act on your behalf. With  POA then your daughter could go to the bank and get it unlocked.  I had a POA for me with my mom and any issues I had with banks when I was out of the US she could take of things for me.  

[kbelyeu]

I had the exact same problem with them.  My only recourse was once I arrived back in the states I closed my accounts and moved elsewhere.  I spent about 2 years in limbo due to this as it took a number of years to go back to the US where I could find a branch.

 

Kurt

[lvr181]

17 hours ago, smotherb said:

I think it may be more appropriate to say, US financial institutions don't really understand expats.

 

Maybe "I think it may be more appropriate to say, US financial institutions don't really understand expats." (or want to understand)?  

[calbear09]

I have worked in banking for both a larger bank as well as a smaller private bank. I actually am currently in Berkeley coincidentally.

 

My advise to current and future expats: use a smaller credit union or private bank. To the OP, I recommend First Republic Bank, a private bank in CA/NY. 

[ubonr1971]

Ive said it before.... 'thank god Im not american'

 

[Wake Up]

1 hour ago, ubonr1971 said:

Ive said it before.... 'thank god Im not american'

 

As I have said a million times thank God I was born American.  ?

[Pib]

1 hour ago, ubonr1971 said:

Ive said it before.... 'thank god Im not american'

 

I agree...thank god "you" are not.

[daij1944]

IT'S OVER BUT STILL PERPLEXING: My daughter went down to the local chase bank with a power of attorney (which has never been used before). After an hour they decided they cou;dn't handle it (because it required notarizing a form) and sent her to the main branch. The main branch fixed it but it took a few phone calls and another two hours before i was back on their website at 1:10am my time.

 

Now the following info is 3rd hand (i am telling you what the bank employees told my daughter) AND it is not consistent:

1. the wire transfer from a foreign ip address triggered the alert

2. the ip address switched from usa to thailand in the course of the wire transfer session and that triggered the alert.

3. the account was never frozen, only online access was denied

4. if you want to make a wire transfer from abroad, call the bank first and let them know. then it won't trigger the alert.

 

i'll see how this all sits with me in a few days.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, daij1944 said:

1. the wire transfer from a foreign ip address triggered the alert

2. the ip address switched from usa to thailand in the course of the wire transfer session and that triggered the alert.

...

4. if you want to make a wire transfer from abroad, call the bank first and let them know. then it won't trigger the alert.

 

 

That sounds typical and familiar from a U.S. banking perspective.

 

As stated above, when doing online business with U.S. banking entities, ALWAYS best to do so with a consistent (same, familiar) U.S. IP address.

 

Perhaps the inconsistency means your VPN connection failed/disconnected during your session and you ended up with a Thai IP during the online session.

[woodenjake]

Regarding the Chase contact numbers given on previous reply, I had to private message for a collect number to use from my cell. Has anyone else had trouble using SKYPE with toll-free numbers .. some banks and company numbers work, others just ring and no one answers and if i try to call using my cell, I get messages that call can't be completed. Going through similar issues as original poster  with institutions and finding it so hard to contact some of them.

[johndudorn]

On 4/2/2018 at 1:51 AM, ubonr1971 said:

Ive said it before.... 'thank god Im not american'

 

3

Agreed

Edited April 7, 2018 by johndudorn

[Thailand J]

When I went online in Thailand and initiated a large transfer out of my Chase account  my online access was blocked.

I can't clear the block over the phone. I have tried.

Luckily everything else is still fine. My Chase checks still can go through. Any online transfer in and out is still fine if I initiate the transfer from the other end.

 

 

[Dustdevil]

I'm surprised by all the problems. As I've mentioned before, I maintained Chase accounts--and also Vanguard accounts--while living and working overseas for 20 years. This was accomplished with a very simple method. First, I was living in Houston when I opened the accounts. Shortly thereafter I changed my address to a UPS store. There is no need to designate it as a "UPS" address. You use the street address, and even without the box number, the staff knows who you are if you get any postal mail. Mine was something like 12345 Busy Avenue #214, Houston, TX 77077. That would be assumed to be an apartment unit, and neither the bank nor Vanguard cares or checks on it. They like to have your money. You established the accounts in country with a bona fide address in the first place. Then while overseas you do all your banking online. If I needed to call them, such as the time when a Bangkok ATM ate my credit card, I called Chase in the States and simply told them I was traveling. Since I returned to the US on multiple vacations over the years, if they asked me when I was returning to the US, I told them "in two months" or whatever.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Dustdevil

[NanLaew]

On 4/1/2018 at 12:57 PM, Pib said:

And you may never know the specific reason that triggered the bank account freeze because generally banks/credit card companies will not talk in any detail regarding the fraud alert measures they use....the exact reason your account was frozen.  

In my case it was a hidden article in the Patriot Act that required US financial institutions to do due diligence on accounts that froze my Bank of America account. I had a dormant but still open account from when I worked in the US that had a tax ID number (SSN). I also had a newer, separate account that had no tax ID as it was opened solely for overseas inbound remittances versus domestic ones after I stopped working and earning money in the US. Part of the phone-banking security rigmarole on the latter account was the '3-questions' of which one was always asking the last 4-digits of my SSN. The answer was always "There is no social security number on this account" and I could do the phone banking ... until one summer about 8 years ago. Like Chase, the only way I could unfreeze my accounts was to present myself at a branch of the bank. Luckily, but not without significant buggering about, I was able to present myself at BofA's bank's (then) non-retail operations office in Bangkok and working with and through a common bank employee ID security system, get a Bangkok BofA branch employee to verify that I was the same person sitting in front of him with my passport and original bank statements. Account unlocked. It was only after another phone in that it was explained why my account had suddenly had my SSN attached. They also confirmed that was no prior written, email or verbal notice that they were going to do this; it was the law and that was it. Since this was before FBAR, FATCA, etc., I am pretty sure the IRS just hijacked a 'security' aspect of the Patriot Act to force this subtle revenue stalking measure. Years ago, they hijacked the SSN for tax tracking and reporting so why stop there?