vigilante justice threat by farang resort owner

[Aeiou7]

8 hours ago, uklawyer said:

And what about the documentation you entered into when you "purchased the shares"?  Did they expressly give you the right to occupy the 2 units? 

 

Yes. I have "sale and purchase agreement" of 11 pages that only briefly mentions the BVI shares, but mostly talks about specifics of the apartments incl. "the exclusive right of possession and quiet enjoyment". But the problem is that this contract is most likely invalid according to Thai law...

 

I still used it already three times to get non-o retirement extensions by giving a copy of it to immigration. It seems they were impressed... TIT.

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by Aeiou7

[Aeiou7]

8 hours ago, Rhys said:

In the end the dude will only bring the wrath of lost faced Thai...do you need this hassle..

 

Luckily there are no major Thai players involved. The farang owner has a Thai lawyer who set up things in Thailand with straw men and the resort has Thai employees, that's it.

[Aeiou7]

10 hours ago, uklawyer said:

A good lawyer should be able to give you an idea of what you position is legally once he has reviewed all the documentation, but it will only be an educated opinion.

 

My ex-neighbour told me what her lawyer told her about these contracts: "it's nothing". ?

[Aeiou7]

On 4.4.2018 at 11:57 AM, Delight said:

Possibly he can sell this right.

 

yes I can, but only if I find a buyer who is at least as stupid as me...

[Aeiou7]

On 4.4.2018 at 4:47 PM, KittenKong said:

And his quarrel seems to be with the company that he part-owns.

 

Actually it's a bit more complicated... There is a another company (also controlled by the shady farang owner I have a conflict with) that I don't part-own that is mandated with running the services of the resort. The mandate has been given to this company by the BVI offshore company that I am a minority shareholder of and the shady farang owner is a majority shareholder of. Hmmm... stupid me, I know!

Edited April 7, 2018 by Aeiou7
more details given

[KittenKong]

I still used it already three times to get non-o retirement extensions by giving a copy of it to immigration. It seems they were impressed.

In most immigration offices for a retirement extension your proof of address can be any utility bill or lease or rental receipt, or even just a letter from someone saying that you live with them. So the sort of document you have would be acceptable for that. I dont see that it would carry much weight anywhere else though.

[BigC]

Allot of foreigners are opening property scams here with complicated owner shop promises

 

never use a lawyer which the salesman recommends 

 

take your time in buying a place as there are loads of condos on the market don’t need to rush

 

remember the worst kind of property criminals are the ones who use the law and manipulate it to confuse their victims in such a way that legally they haven’t done anything wrong 

 

you can own a condo in your own name

 

its straight forward 

 

you don’t need shares of a company that has shares in a company that has shares in  another company bag owns the building where the land on and the land is in a different name 

 

Normally a lawyer can check the legal status of the property without even visiting the place. They can go to the land office and check the access roads the type of proptery that is there. The owner of the property and permits

 

these partcial scams happen everywhere in the world

 

 nearly got scammed in Florida once 

 

so dont pick on Thailand a second if its the only place where it happens

[BigC]

Also I don’t know what would happen in a situation where the company who built the condos has borrowed money from the bank and cannot pay it back. I am not sure what happens to the tenants in this case

 

i imagine the company would be sold at action but I don’t know

[cheeryble]

Still be interested in seeing the problem before condemning one side or the other.

 

 

[cyberfarang]

On 4/4/2018 at 11:30 PM, Aeiou7 said:

Thanks everyone who took the time to write their advice and opinion.

 

Some more answer to points that have been raised:

 

Yes, I know that I was stupid to sign such a "purchase" contract. An ex-neighbour who sued the owner was told by her lawyer that the contract was worth nothing. Finally she agreed to a settlement deal to get a part of her investment back, without a verdict by a court.

No, my money didn't come from illegitimate sources.

What I meant with "de facto own" is that everything internally in the resort works as if I was a real owner, but legally speaking I am well aware that I am not.

My "property" (not mine, I know...) are two one-bedroom studio apartments, I wrote "condos" because I thought that this expression was more common, but legally it seems not to be the same.

By "vigilante justice" I didn't necessarily mean violence but just taking measures like cutting electricity or banning people without a court order.

The bill in the actual case is not very high, but the next one might be. Legally the resort owner should sue me if I don't pay it, but he won't and prefers to use his own methods (cutting water/electricity, banning people from the resort).

I own 4 % of the shares of the offshore company (indeed in the BVI), the resort owner owns more than 50 % of them.

 

I find it interesting to read all kinds of insights about the whole situation, but what I am mainly interested to know are answers to these questions:

 

---

As far as I know the resort owner is not allowed to cut electricity/water - or is he, because legally I am neither a renter, nor a legal condo owner?

How about banning my guests and/or myself from the resort through vigilante justice?

 

Could the police do something if I called them after someone got banned from the resort and/or after electricity/water got cut, or would I have to sue the resort owner for his actions?

Would it be possible to sue the resort owner for the received threats only, without any vigilante justice done by him yet?

---

 

What do you think?

 

Someone wrote "It is illegal to have the water cut -off in a room  where a  person(s) is  residing"

- is it the same with electricity? I remember having read somewhere a while ago about a Thai court decision that an electric fan must be possible to use.

 

What about the power of the police in such a case? I know, I know, it's Thai police, but let's assume a knowledgeable and honest policeman is involved (they do really exist in Thailand as well).

 

Thanks a lot again!

 

Sounds like a whole load of shady business going ons to me. Have you declared and are you paying tax for your property renting business? Because that`s what you`re doing, is running a property renting business.

 

Any disputes you have with the juristic authority on the housing estate is civil, not a criminal matter, therefore I doubt the police will want to get involved.

 

This is what happens to foreigners when they try to skip around the correct running of business practices in Thailand. I doubt you will go to the police with this matter or want to take this to a civil court, that will bring your business activities to light, or I wouldn`t advise that you do so.

[watcharacters]

On 4/4/2018 at 10:02 AM, Khun Jean said:

Let me guess ....... Samui?

 

Just pay the bill, shoddy work is considered good to outstanding in Thailand so a dispute will never end in your favor.

 

 

 

 

 

Or pack up and leave while the leaving is good..

 

 

[Aeiou7]

5 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Any disputes you have with the juristic authority on the housing estate is civil, not a criminal matter, therefore I doubt the police will want to get involved.

 

I am not thinking of calling the police for acting against the shady legal structure of the property, but to possibly intervene against banning / "removing" people (incl. myself) from the property and against cutting water and electricity. These are quite urgent matters, a law suit takes ages...

 

btw, I heard that civil and criminal matters are not as separated from each other in Thailand as in Farangland. It seems to be possible to sentence someone to prison in a "civil" lawsuit here. I am no expert at all and it's only hearsay. Does anyone in this forum know more about that? 

[Aeiou7]

9 hours ago, BigC said:

you can own a condo in your own name

 

its straight forward 

 

It seems that it depends where, apparently it's not possible on Koh Phangan (according to the shady resort owner AND according to my ex-neighbour's lawyer). Of course I know that this doesn't make sense, but I am used to that in Thailand anyway. ?

 

[scorecard]

7 minutes ago, Aeiou7 said:

 

I am not thinking of calling the police for acting against the shady legal structure of the property, but to possibly intervene against banning / "removing" people (incl. myself) from the property and against cutting water and electricity. These are quite urgent matters, a law suit takes ages...

 

btw, I heard that civil and criminal matters are not as separated from each other in Thailand as in Farangland. It seems to be possible to sentence someone to prison in a "civil" lawsuit here. I am no expert at all and it's only hearsay. Does anyone in this forum know more about that? 

 

 

"I am not thinking of calling the police for acting against the shady legal structure of the property, but to possibly intervene against banning / "removing" people (incl. myself) from the property and against cutting water and electricity. These are quite urgent matters, a law suit takes ages..."

 

 

Easy for you to put these items in different boxes and I wonder whether you pain the whole situation in a picture you want people to believe...

 

Is it not possible the police, if called and if they come, might well ask for. demand to know who the actual owner if etc., before they make any decisions?

 

In fact perhaps if they don't ask these questions and establish a clear picture who is involved and in what capacity / roles etc., then they are not doing their job in appropriate steps?

 

 

[KittenKong]

It seems that it depends where, apparently it's not possible on Koh Phangan (according to the shady resort owner AND according to my ex-neighbour's lawyer). Of course I know that this doesn't make sense, but I am used to that in Thailand anyway

Islands here have special rules, and sometimes no rules. Best stay well away from property on islands here as the road is far from clear.

On the mainland you can certainly buy any condo, anywhere, as long as the farang percentage in the building stays within the legal limit of 49%.

[Khun Jean]

22 hours ago, Aeiou7 said:

 

yes I can, but only if I find a buyer who is at least as stupid as me...

Indeed. At least one of them steps of the plane in Thailand about every 15 minutes. :)

 

[BigC]

17 hours ago, Aeiou7 said:

 

It seems that it depends where, apparently it's not possible on Koh Phangan (according to the shady resort owner AND according to my ex-neighbour's lawyer). Of course I know that this doesn't make sense, but I am used to that in Thailand anyway. ?

 

They don’t have condo licenses in Phangan