"It was like that when I found it"

[Formaleins]

On ‎4‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 2:26 PM, watcharacters said:

 

 

 

I think confessing is not easy depending on what the confessor thinks will be the reaction.

 

 

I imagine Crossy probably thrashes them and beats them to within an inch of their lives, if not, then he should do.

[HooHaa]

Cant be bothered to read the replies, but the following is very thai.

 

Quote

I know he hit it with the mower, he knows I know he hit it with the mower, Wifey knows that I know he hit it with the mower. But the story is still "he saw it was off and wanted to fix it". 

Its face. A perfect example of kreng jai at work.

 

He was unwilling to walk away, either out of some sort of sense of responsibility for the incident or certain knowledge he would get blamed later for it.

 

So he brings it to your attention, in a manner that does not admit accountability, knowing full well that you will know he is responsible.

 

You and your wife meet his expectation and play along knowing he buggered up, but because he brought it to your attention, you are willing to so.  he could have said nothing but didnt.

 

So, in the end, the pipe gets fixed, contents of tank are saved, he is off the hook for both admitting responsibility or later blame once it is discovered.

 

Simple innit?

 

Your wife knows the game, suprised its an oddity to you.

 

 

[Bangkok Barry]

On 4/8/2018 at 9:43 AM, Crossy said:

what's wrong with "sorry, I hit it with the mower"?

 

Because a Thai will never admit to anything, even if it is obvious that they are the guilty party. Thais can never do wrong so of course he couldn't admit it.

[Crossy]

20 minutes ago, HooHaa said:

Your wife knows the game, suprised its an oddity to you.

Oh, I know the game, I've been here long enough. That does not make it any less annoying.

 

Like I noted in a previous post, I just needed somewhere to vent.

 

EDIT The guys know I'm fairly easy going when it comes to accidents.

Cut the cable of the hedge trimmer. No problem if you tell me, it can be fixed. Put a bit of tape over it and put things back on the shelf and let me find it next time I need to use the kit and I'm slightly less easy going.

[HLover]

16 minutes ago, HooHaa said:

Its face.

Also know as a lack of self responsibility, on other parts of the planet.

[zyphodb]

Face, face, face...

 

  Never admit to doing anything wrong, never accuse anyone of doing something wrong, or they might lose face.

 The number one factor in keeping the whole country stupid...

 If you don't admit to making a mistake how can you learn from it?

 The Elites must love it, along with the crap education system which is the number two factor, this will keep the plebs in their place....

[maxcorrigan]

On 4/8/2018 at 10:04 AM, Thian said:

We had the termite-company spraying the system which is under the house (many houses behind the cover on the wall).

 

It took a long time so i went to see what they were doing...they had broken one of the pipes which goes under the house because they didn't have the right connector to it....i have a load of those so gave them the right one....

 

This job costs 5000 baht so i would expect to see a professional company with the right tools here, but forget that in Thailand.

 

You have to check the Thai ALL THE TIME, and of course they said that the pipe was already broken (this house is only 8 years old now)...

 

 

Yes that is typical we had a gardening bloke to come  and measure up for new turf that we needed, he turned up at the agreed time then wanted  to borrow a steel tape rule to measure the area, then needed a piece of paper and pen to put down the measurements, this is a person that does it all the time, i can only presume he steps the measurements out but TIT, so live with it!

[HLover]

Just now, zyphodb said:

Face, face, face...

 

  Never admit to doing anything wrong, never accuse anyone of doing something wrong, or they might lose face.

 The number one factor in keeping the whole country stupid...

 If you don't admit to making a mistake how can you learn from it?

 The Elites must love it, along with the crap education system which is the number two factor, this will keep the plebs in their place....

Arrse face?

[Lacessit]

Thais are not the only Asians who find it difficult to admit responsibility when they screw up. IMHO the OP should be grateful the young guy at least said something, instead of saying nothing and letting the 2500 litre tank empty itself.

I've encountered exactly the same mindset in Chinese and Indonesians. Not my fault, some other dude did it. The SODDI defense in American jurisprudence.

[Thian]

22 minutes ago, maxcorrigan said:

Yes that is typical we had a gardening bloke to come  and measure up for new turf that we needed, he turned up at the agreed time then wanted  to borrow a steel tape rule to measure the area, then needed a piece of paper and pen to put down the measurements, this is a person that does it all the time, i can only presume he steps the measurements out but TIT, so live with it!

When the company comes to deliver our new gasbottle he always needs my tools plus he doesn't have any change on him.

 

My friend let his contractor extend his house, he showed them his Camry which still had to fit under the carport....when they built the wall (on a new poured concrete floor) he tried to park the car there but it didn't fit...mai pen lai, so they chopped the wall/floor and made it all smaller.

 

When our house was still under warranty we had cracks in the plasterwork, so i let them fix it for warranty...2 guys showed up with a brick and a long nail to hammer the cement of the walls...

 

I let an official electrician install an extra fusebox for the kitchenextension....after 4 weeks the old fusebox was on fire at night, the cable he installed totally burned of the connector....

 

I can go on like that....it's really.....so amazing...

[khunPer]

On 4/8/2018 at 4:43 AM, Crossy said:

It's not an issue these things happen, but what's wrong with "sorry, I hit it with the mower"?

Probably "losing face"...

[HooHaa]

43 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Oh, I know the game, I've been here long enough. That does not make it any less annoying.

 

Like I noted in a previous post, I just needed somewhere to vent.

 

EDIT The guys know I'm fairly easy going when it comes to accidents.

Cut the cable of the hedge trimmer. No problem if you tell me, it can be fixed. Put a bit of tape over it and put things back on the shelf and let me find it next time I need to use the kit and I'm slightly less easy going.

 

Exactly, they know they need to say something, but cant directly acknowlege guilt. 

[Crossy]

23 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I've encountered exactly the same mindset in Chinese and Indonesians.

The Koreans are up on the list too.

 

It's all about face, face, face.

[HooHaa]

48 minutes ago, HLover said:

Also know as a lack of self responsibility, on other parts of the planet.

If you are going to quote me quote me correctly. 

 

Its kreng jai. Its about face, but it is not face.

 

He did, in a very round about way,  take responsibility. Kreng jai acknowelges that, and allows the illlusion of innocence to continue.

 

Kreng jai is a set of mutual obligations, exeryone is complicit,  everyone know what is really happening, but they let it go. 

 

Kreng jai is thailand, its the reason every miserable bugger on here is miserable - if people could recognize it for what it is, and see beyond the first layer, they wouldnt be so frustrated.

 

Im not saying its right but it is a completely different way of looking at the world, your place in it and the role of others.

Edited April 11, 2018 by HooHaa

[DekDaeng]

22 hours ago, luudee said:

 

I think the difference is that we (westerners) eventually grow up and become a man. And learn

to admit when we did something wrong and stand up to it, like a man should do.

 

Thais, well, they never grow up. I once confronted my worker in a similar situation. It was 100%

obvious that he f*cked something up, it was not a big deal, but he came with some excuse

like little gree aliens did it ...

 

He was so furious that I confronted him, his face turned red and his entire body started shaking ....

 

children ....

 

luudee

 

face

[HLover]

3 hours ago, HooHaa said:

If you are going to quote me quote me correctly. 

 

Its kreng jai. Its about face, but it is not face.

 

He did, in a very round about way,  take responsibility. Kreng jai acknowelges that, and allows the illlusion of innocence to continue.

 

Kreng jai is a set of mutual obligations, exeryone is complicit,  everyone know what is really happening, but they let it go. 

 

Kreng jai is thailand, its the reason every miserable bugger on here is miserable - if people could recognize it for what it is, and see beyond the first layer, they wouldnt be so frustrated.

 

Im not saying its right but it is a completely different way of looking at the world, your place in it and the role of others.

Not miserable. Apologies if it seemed like that.

 

[impulse]

On 4/8/2018 at 10:29 AM, darksidedog said:

I generally do all of my own maintenance now, even though the landlord has a supposed handyman available. Watching this supposed professional at work is seriously funny. He takes four times longer than the job takes me, and he bodges just about everything. Put the front door lock and handles in upside down and back to front, five tries at the stop cock on the water tank, and the list goes on. Nothing is ever his fault. The fitting isn't right. The lock has bad instructions.

I put it down to stupidity and incompetence, that they just are unable to admit to, which sadly means, they are never going to learn.

 

So, what you're saying is that the landlord has you trained up pretty well.  I'm not sure who the smart one is...  And who will never learn.

 

Edit:  I have a similar situation in China.  But there, the locals are just so amused by watching a white guy pick up a wrench (and do it all wrong in their view) that they look for any excuse or delay to goad me into DIY.

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by impulse

[IAMHERE]

So, if it hadn't a been like that when he found it then it wouldn't have had to been fixed. I'd guess it was that way when he saw it, if he'd seen it before then perhaps he wouldn't have found it that way. I do believe he never saw it until it was like that way. 

[cryo]

Its now become worldwide as I work for a large European gas/engineering company and getting any manager at any level to accept responsibility or make a decision is impossible. I wonder if its contagious as its no longer a far eastern trait :-) I have also experienced many of the above instances when in Thailand I just smile and think to myself TIT as if you worry about these things in Thailand you would put yourself in the Asylum :-)

 

Ken.

 

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by cryo

[smotherb]

On 4/8/2018 at 12:28 PM, Kwasaki said:

Just had a guy working these apartment we've been doing bit by bit over nearly 3 years. 

He had fixed other stuff OK so we left some bathroom accessories with him a mirror & a shelf that goes above the sink, bad idea.

He must of become obsessed the shelf was a arms length up for my Mrs and she couldn't step far enough back to see in the mirror. 

  

Welcome to misfunction junction.  A friend of mine hired a Bangkok architectural firm to design and build his home outside Hua Hin. Paid top baht for twice the time estimated to build and several cost overruns. Seems this professional architectural firm had neither heard about rise and run for the stairways nor realized the double-car garage needed to be wide enough to open the doors of cars parked therein.  Need I even tell you they never heard of a level?

[whaleboneman]

On 4/10/2018 at 7:09 AM, luudee said:

 

I think the difference is that we (westerners) eventually grow up and become a man. And learn

to admit when we did something wrong and stand up to it, like a man should do.

 

Thais, well, they never grow up. I once confronted my worker in a similar situation. It was 100%

obvious that he f*cked something up, it was not a big deal, but he came with some excuse

like little gree aliens did it ...

 

He was so furious that I confronted him, his face turned red and his entire body started shaking ....

 

children ....

 

luudee

 

Lucky for you there was no machete around.

[Tofer]

I had a ceiling contractor install a plank ceiling in an area which is 40mm out of square over a 6m length. I'll leave that rant for now though.

 

When I saw the wedge shaped plank along the wall I told him no problem, not your fault, although any experienced / decent tradesman would have checked first. So I tell him to take it down and refit it with a slightly bigger spacer at the top than the bottom, even his worker totally understood my logic, I also told him I would pay extra for the work. He proceeds to try shuffling them about instead of starting over again, without using the packs I provided for the gaps. I tell him this won't work, which it didn't. One more attempt buggering around and again same result. So I tell him to buy new planks, at my expense, as the old ones now have 3 sets of screw holes peppering the face, stand over him while he strips out the old ones and provide him with 3, 3.5 & 4mm packs to use, stand over him and constantly remind him to put the packs in for the first 15 rows until he, his wife and son stop grinning and finally get the message, whether they were grins of embarrassment or laughing at farang thinking he knows better, I'm not sure...

Result, no visual evidence of the original builders defect, a much bigger bill, and not one ounce of responsibility acknowledged by the tradesman.

 

The joys of construction in Thailand......

[Tofer]

10 hours ago, cryo said:

Its now become worldwide as I work for a large European gas/engineering company and getting any manager at any level to accept responsibility or make a decision is impossible. I wonder if its contagious as its no longer a far eastern trait :-) I have also experienced many of the above instances when in Thailand I just smile and think to myself TIT as if you worry about these things in Thailand you would put yourself in the Asylum :-)

 

Ken.

 

 

I was interviewed in BKK a few years ago for the role of technical manager on the new Swampy airport project. Not sure what the role they were describing so asked to see their hierarchy chart as to where I would fit in. It was one of a handful of managers to run the consultancy team of approximately 100 Thai "professionals". I told them thank you very much, but you couldn't pay me enough.... When pressed, I did pick an outrageous figure and package knowing they would not accept - phew, close shave....

 

I had a similar role on the new terminal 3 airport in Manila. One of my lads came to say his mate (on the contractor gang) was using his friendship to try to pass off poor workmanship, I told him to go back and tell him he is not much of a friend if he wants to get you in trouble with your boss for accepting shoddy work. Off he went with a smile on his face.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Tofer

[kannot]

On 4/8/2018 at 9:43 AM, Crossy said:

How many time have we heard that?

 

Today the young chap who cuts the lawn grass jungle came into my workshop looking for pipe tape. Why? I ask, he shows me one of Wifey's 1" irrigation taps that has come off the main pipe. I know he hit it with the mower, he knows I know he hit it with the mower, Wifey knows that I know he hit it with the mower. But the story is still "he saw it was off and wanted to fix it". Even under gravity a 1" pipe will empty a 2500 L tank fairly rapidly and the grass wasn't even really wet.

 

Easy fix assuming it doesn't blow off when I start the pump 'coz the thread's damaged.

 

It's not an issue these things happen, but what's wrong with "sorry, I hit it with the mower"?

 

Whinge over!

Same with ALL the staff ive ever  had, I tell them to let us know if something breaks for "any" reason as I will fix  it, they NEVER do EVER not one in 5  years, the motorbike they have,  back brake light permanently on, speedo not working, they never say anything ever.

[Tofer]

9 hours ago, smotherb said:

Welcome to misfunction junction.  A friend of mine hired a Bangkok architectural firm to design and build his home outside Hua Hin. Paid top baht for twice the time estimated to build and several cost overruns. Seems this professional architectural firm had neither heard about rise and run for the stairways nor realized the double-car garage needed to be wide enough to open the doors of cars parked therein.  Need I even tell you they never heard of a level?

They use the same misfits on site as any level of contractor, so highly unlikely anything will be better. I would however have thought the planning would have been better than what you describe. 

 

I thankfully, have 45 years experience in the architectural / construction management field, unfortunately I came down with a heavy bout of dengue fever for a month + just when they were building the structure, so did not get the opportunity to physically check their setting out along the way, hence my comments about out of square in my other post, and continuing efforts to resolve the follow on finishing problems.

[geriatrickid]

Easy answer: Loss of face does not encourage admitting a mistake

 

Reality: The worker doesn't make much. If admitting to damage, worker  might have to pay. Poor people do what they have to do not to get poorer.

 

Caution:  Coming down harsh on an idiot may be counter productive. Instead of being told of a situation promptly thereby allowing one to minimize damage and to contain costs, one is not told and  must "discover" the  damage after the fact.

[smotherb]

1 hour ago, Tofer said:

They use the same misfits on site as any level of contractor, so highly unlikely anything will be better. I would however have thought the planning would have been better than what you describe. 

 

I thankfully, have 45 years experience in the architectural / construction management field, unfortunately I came down with a heavy bout of dengue fever for a month + just when they were building the structure, so did not get the opportunity to physically check their setting out along the way, hence my comments about out of square in my other post, and continuing efforts to resolve the follow on finishing problems.

Perhaps, but the management of the construction misfits was supposed to be from this professional architectural firm.

[HooHaa]

14 hours ago, HLover said:

Not miserable. Apologies if it seemed like that.

 

actually i hadn't meant you. More directed to those on here who seem to feel that time spent in thailand is akin to hard penance.

 

[wump]

You (op) have been here long enough to know that no Thai will ever say

"I made a mistake" or
"I was wrong" or
"I'm sorry" unless forced to ...like the clowns they catch on tape with some crap and then show them on TV.

It's some losing face thing. I find it the most ridiculous thing in the world and this is what I hate most about Thailand and IMO that's why Thailand still isn't and will never be a real developed country.

[Tofer]

3 hours ago, smotherb said:

Perhaps, but the management of the construction misfits was supposed to be from this professional architectural firm.

Yes I understood that.

 

Sorry to hear your friend got so badly stitched up.