Affordable health insurance for anyone in Thailand

[JetsetBkk]

"Bangkok Insurance Brokers Company will launch a group health policy loosely based on the successful Swiss health care system. This group health policy is the largest group insured in Thailand. Anyone is welcome to join this group, the more the better."

 

Have a look here:

 

http://www.insurance-in-thailand.com/affordable-health-insurance-for-anyone-in-thailand/

 

From the site:

 

Main points:

 

• 500,000 Baht Basic cover and 500,000 Baht Optional Major Medical cover.

• This insurance ONLY covers treatment at over 1,000 Thai government hospitals.

• ALL foreigners and Thai nationals of all ages can join (men, women and children).

• Renewal is guaranteed for LIFE, no cut-off age for renewals.

• ONLY inpatient cover for sickness and accidental injuries.

• NO outpatient cover.

• NO cover outside Thailand.

 

No-claims discounts

• After 1 plan year                    = 10% premium discount.

• After 2 plan years                  = 15% premium discount.

• After 3 plan years                  = 20% premium discount.

• After 4 plan years                  = 25% premium discount.

 

[wpcoe]

Without "joining" a "group," any idea what the costs are/will be?

[simoh1490]

There's a very famous Thai insurance company out there called Bangkok Insurance, this is not them, this is Bangkok Insurance Brokers. In fact, I can't find anything on the web on this company apart from a facebook page. Does anyone have any further information about this company because this is the first time I've ever heard of anything like this in Thailand in 16 years.

 

And for goodness sake, what does, loosely based on the successful Swiss healthcare system mean! Note also this product will launch, it hasn't yet launched hence it doesn't yet exist.

 

Anyone smell fish.

Edited April 15, 2018 by simoh1490

[ThaiPauly]

Well when you google the address they are Phuket Insurance Brokers...they do not mention this anywhere in their blurb!

[Sheryl]

Yes, this is a broker who has evidentally identified the unmet need for a low cost, government hospital only policy and is trying to persuade a Bangkok-based  insurance company (I do nto know which one) to develop such a policy.Wwhat they are asking people to sign is in effect a petition stating interest,  for the purpose of persuading the insurance company that there is a real market for something of this type. Which there is, if it is done right.

 

Registering interest doe nto commit you in any way to (1) buying such a policy if it materializes nor (2) necessarily buying it from that broker even if you do buy it. If it comes to pass I expect most brokers will be able to sell it.

[sghanchey]

I'd like to know if anyone has had experience with Premier Health insurance plans. I am in the high-risk age group (73), and have only had success getting major medical insurance (with a very high $7500 deductible and no coverage in the U.S.) from Cigna Global (at more than $6000/year). I have a quote from Premier Health for about the same price, but with a lower deductible, and it claims to cover me in the U.S. as well (with a $3000 deductible). As I am obviously covered by Medicare in the U.S., the U.S. coverage is not critical for me. Any comments very welcome. 

[nausea]

Anyone who can give me Government Hospital only coverage would be very welcome. It's what I've been looking for, to be honest. 

 

 

 

 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, nausea said:

Anyone who can give me Government Hospital only coverage would be very welcome. It's what I've been looking for, to be honest. 

 

 

 

 

You and many, many others.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, sghanchey said:

I'd like to know if anyone has had experience with Premier Health insurance plans. I am in the high-risk age group (73), and have only had success getting major medical insurance (with a very high $7500 deductible and no coverage in the U.S.) from Cigna Global (at more than $6000/year). I have a quote from Premier Health for about the same price, but with a lower deductible, and it claims to cover me in the U.S. as well (with a $3000 deductible). As I am obviously covered by Medicare in the U.S., the U.S. coverage is not critical for me. Any comments very welcome. 

Do you have a link to this? The only Premier Health I know of is a US based insurance covering people in the US, would certainly not have direct payment arrangements with Thai hospitals and probably nto cover someone living abroad (though might cover emergencies while travelling). ore to the point their website says:

"Effective April 1, 2018, Premier Health Plan no longer offers any individual products."

 

 

[meatboy]

17 hours ago, nausea said:

Anyone who can give me Government Hospital only coverage would be very welcome. It's what I've been looking for, to be honest. 

 

 

 

 

my 45minute test on Monday 25,000bht.out patient dep.CHEAP IS IT?

[Sheryl]

If you require admission to a government hospital that entails prolonged ICU care and multiple specialized surgeries -- as can happen if you have a serious accident, major cardiac event or major stroke - bill can easily exceed 1 million baht.

 

Which is still about 1/4 what would happen at a private hospital

 

Planning to use only government hospital does nto reduce the need for insurance. But a policy limited to government hospitals, where costs are typically 1/3 - 1/5 that of private, should certainly have much lower premiums.

[meatboy]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

If you require admission to a government hospital that entails prolonged ICU care and multiple specialized surgeries -- as can happen if you have a serious accident, major cardiac event or major stroke - bill can easily exceed 1 million baht.

 

Which is still about 1/4 what would happen at a private hospital

 

Planning to use only government hospital does nto reduce the need for insurance. But a policy limited to government hospitals, where costs are typically 1/3 - 1/5 that of private, should certainly have much lower premiums.

I wonder what you thought of my cost of my test that was done.[procedure posted my inr range.]

I have 1,000,000bht.self cover.i am just wondering what it would cover.

[NancyL]

People need to understand the limitations of this proposed plan.  As Sheryl pointed out, treatment for a major medical problem like a serious accident or some cardiac or stroke events could exceed the annual 500,000 baht limit, even at a government hospital.  Also, the wait time for many less serious procedures can be quite long at government hospitals.  And it may be that plan participants can't "select" their gov't hospital, but instead are required to use the gov't hospital that serves their amphur.  I know that here in  Muang Chiang Mai, that would be Nakorn Ping hospital, yet most expats would prefer to go to the Chiang Mai University hospital, Suan Dok, a higher level regional gov't regional hospital.  That option may not be available under the plan.  

[Sheryl]

The details are nto yet known but tentatively sounds like there will be an additional 500K "major medical" option that would raise cover to 1 million.

The biggest problem I have seen from what I have read (all of which is tentative - the actual insurer has yet to design the product) is:

 

- plan to have same premium for all ages will result in only older people enrolling since the premium cost for younger people will nto be competitive with private policies. This is turn will quickly lead to loss of money for the insurer at which point they will either drop the policy or raise rates way up. This could however easily be avoided by having say 3 age bands with different premiums priced so that each is well below private insurance costs.  For any insurance scheme, having younger healthy people enrolled is critical. Of course this "same premium for everyone" is what the broker is talking about, possibly (hopefullY) the actual insurer, if they develop the product, would know better,

 

- no info at all re whether there will be a choice of govt hospital

 

What is really needed, badly, is a way for resident expats to buy into either the 30 baht scheme or SS scheme, similar to what already exists for migrant workers but of course at different price - and for insurance to then be made mandatory for all extensions of stay. The combo of the two is important. If insurance is mandatory but no system exists offering the option of buying into the government system, it will be pandemonium as large numbers of expats will be unable to get insurance, or unable to get one they can possibly afford. If the system is developed but insurance not made mandatory, only older/sicker people will enroll as from what I see  on this forum many expats simply believe "it can't happen to me" or "if it does, it will only cost peanuts" and will nto get insurance no matter how affordable, unless they are forced to.

 

Since the whole basis of insurance is risk pooling, it is economically viable only if the pool of insured people includes a far share of healthy, younger people (I have to say younger because older people even if healthy, do not stay healthy all that long - contrary to what many older TV members seem to assume).

[meatboy]

not sure where I stand with the hospital I use[gov] I registered when the 2,800bht. scheme came in and went out as quick.but I have always had treatment there after a series of seizure's.scans ect,medication which has always been very fair,scans around 3,000bht.but I do get a 50% discount on a private room,as the wife is a volunteer for the health clinic.

but I did see a list of what my cost on Monday was.no change out of 25,000bht.i have always found the hospital to be fair and a good system at work.the only down side is the amount of people waiting,you do need to wear a MASK.

[kamalabob2]

I have met Eric the owner of Bangkok Insurance Brokers in person on several occasions. Eric has been to my home in Buriram province. He has earned my business as my insurance broker for motorbike, auto, truck, health, rental home and home owners insurance starting in 2005. I had insurance through Eric PRIOR to moving to Thailand as I had my motorbike, rental house and health coverage prior to a full time move to Thailand. I understand the real need for the plan he is putting together. I am fortunate to have allocated funds for BUPA, now Etna, and for other high coverage limit insurance. Not everyone has that opportunity.

I have a friend who slipped and broke his foot on 60cm by 60cm slick tiles in a home of a person with no home owners insurance. That accident victim has no Health insurance in Thailand. Yesterday he told me his minimum fee quoted at the Bangkok Korat private hospital was 350,000 baht. However he decided that the Korat Government Hospital price under 150,000 was suitable in his situation. So I can see a real need for health insurance, and how using Government Hospitals can hold down the cost. EVERY time I had a procedure paid by insurance at a private hospital they seemed keen to put me in the  VIP suite.  "Like a rich Uncle is paying for the medical procedure" is the attitude of private hospitals when they see that BUPA platinum card.   Eric has a real office, speaks several language and is licensed. Let's see what plan he is able to offer.  

[poanoi]

" EVERY time I had a procedure paid by insurance at a private hospital they seemed keen to put me in the  VIP suite.  "

 

that, and the fact that the insurance company intend to make a buck out

of the whole thing, means that the younger crop that pays for the insurance

are losing money hand over fist on an average, they would be much better off

saving those money for the rainy day

 

i think the best system is to cut off leaches

like insurance companies & lawyers,

and the state pays the bills with tax money

Edited April 25, 2018 by poanoi

[meatboy]

4 hours ago, poanoi said:

" EVERY time I had a procedure paid by insurance at a private hospital they seemed keen to put me in the  VIP suite.  "

 

that, and the fact that the insurance company intend to make a buck out

of the whole thing, means that the younger crop that pays for the insurance

are losing money hand over fist on an average, they would be much better off

saving those money for the rainy day

 

i think the best system is to cut off leaches

like insurance companies & lawyers,

and the state pays the bills with tax money

cut off the leaches.ins.co's,lawyers.

let the state pay the bills.

do you live HERE or are you DREAMING.

[NancyL]

4 hours ago, poanoi said:

" EVERY time I had a procedure paid by insurance at a private hospital they seemed keen to put me in the  VIP suite.  "

 

that, and the fact that the insurance company intend to make a buck out

of the whole thing, means that the younger crop that pays for the insurance

are losing money hand over fist on an average, they would be much better off

saving those money for the rainy day

 

i think the best system is to cut off leaches

like insurance companies & lawyers,

and the state pays the bills with tax money

This is the model for countries with nationalized health insurance and the people pay (young and old) pay for health care through their taxes.  Surely you know that "the state" will not pay for health care for all foreigners here in Thailand since, by in large, we don't pay taxes.  However, foreigners who hold jobs in Thailand can often get into the Thai social security (health care) system by virtue of their employment.  

 

Even in countries with nationalized health care, usually there is an option for people to buy private health insurance so they can cut out wait times and have VIP services at hospitals.  You don't think every woman in the U.K. gives birth at a place like the Lido Wing, like the U.K.'s royal princess just did?  That's not the standard of the NHS, but rather a premium service that has to be self-funded or paid with upscale private insurance.

[meatboy]

as gov.hospitals have come into the discussion,its been a few yrs.that I have been using one,always at the end of the stay,what I have had done has always been itemized on the bill.quite fair except for the FOOD.no chips,bacon or pies.

but now I see they have a price list for different treatments,which I believe or I think are negotiable.

next week I might have to test this out.

[altcar bob]

Admirable idea ,but clear to see who the main users of this scheme would be,the elderly.   Once tumour detected,a mass observed, the ticker in less than overdrive would see the scheme implode. Of course the above would mean the elderly on that quickening slope towards death,better going back home

[Monomial]

23 hours ago, Sheryl said:

The details are nto yet known but tentatively sounds like there will be an additional 500K "major medical" option that would raise cover to 1 million.

The biggest problem I have seen from what I have read (all of which is tentative - the actual insurer has yet to design the product) is:

 

- plan to have same premium for all ages will result in only older people enrolling since the premium cost for younger people will nto be competitive with private policies. This is turn will quickly lead to loss of money for the insurer at which point they will either drop the policy or raise rates way up. This could however easily be avoided by having say 3 age bands with different premiums priced so that each is well below private insurance costs.  For any insurance scheme, having younger healthy people enrolled is critical. Of course this "same premium for everyone" is what the broker is talking about, possibly (hopefullY) the actual insurer, if they develop the product, would know better,

 

...

 

I signed up for more information, and at the end was told the target premium was around 3000 baht per month. Since this is about twice what I was expecting for the coverage, it seems that they are definitely biasing the premiums towards older retirees.  At these rates, they seem well aware that the target market is strictly the older segment.  I can't imagine anyone under 50 considering this policy at these prices.

 

I am still interested, but will probably choose less expensive options until I reach the age where a program like this becomes cost effective.

 

[altcar bob]

Only option for elderly is India,well within everybody s budget and 5000 return its a no-brainier

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Monomial said:

 

I signed up for more information, and at the end was told the target premium was around 3000 baht per month. Since this is about twice what I was expecting for the coverage, it seems that they are definitely biasing the premiums towards older retirees.  At these rates, they seem well aware that the target market is strictly the older segment.  I can't imagine anyone under 50 considering this policy at these prices.

 

I am still interested, but will probably choose less expensive options until I reach the age where a program like this becomes cost effective.

 

Of course younger people will not purchase a policy limited to government hospitals for 36K a year when for the same amount (even less if they are under 30) they can get private insurance cover with full choice of hospital.  This is not a viable business plan. They need to have at least 3-4 premium bands, say under 40 years, 40 - 55 years, 55-69. and 70 and above.  A fixed premium for all 70+, even though it would obviously have to be higher the the premium for younger people, would still be a huge plus as with the private policies, premiums keep going steeply up and up and this age group is usually on a fixed income.

 

Lert's just wait and see what finally emerges, at this stage they are just trying to convince an insurer that there is market demand. Once so convinced the insurer and their underwriters would do some research before actually designing the product.

[Sheryl]

7 hours ago, poanoi said:

..... the younger crop that pays for the insurance

are losing money hand over fist on an average, they would be much better off

saving those money for the rainy day

 

i think the best system is to cut off leaches

like insurance companies & lawyers,

and the state pays the bills with tax money

In systems where the state pays out of tax money, the younger people are also paying for the health care of the elderly, by a wide margin. And the healthy are paying for the ill.

 

Young people are not immune to serious illness and most definitely not immune to  serious accidents, though, and while on a population basis their aggregate health care costs will be much less than older people, on an individual level, having no insurance and  instead saving the money (if one assumes that is what younger people would likely do with money not spent on insurance premiums!) will lead to disaster and inability to get life saving care when needed for some people.

 

One could even argue that for the healthy and fit elderly (who do exist), they are having to subsidize the reckless behavior of young people who drink, engage in dangerous sports and stunts etc. Which is also true.

 

No matter how you structure it - government provided and paid for health care or private insurance or mix of the two -- there is no way to ensure universal access to care that avoids the majority of people subsidizing the care of a minority at any given point in time. Which the subsidizers, if they are wise, accept knowing that soem day the tables may be turned.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 hours ago, poanoi said:

i think the best system is to cut off leaches

like insurance companies & lawyers,

and the state pays the bills with tax money

 

Except the STATE and its actors here are a bad or worse than any of the private parties you mention when it comes to leaching money out of the system that's supposed to take care of people.

 

Misspent funds, diverted funds, wasted funds. By the time they get thru with things, it's a wonder that there's any money left to actually pay to keep the government hospitals operating.

[meatboy]

1 hour ago, altcar bob said:

Admirable idea ,but clear to see who the main users of this scheme would be,the elderly.   Once tumour detected,a mass observed, the ticker in less than overdrive would see the scheme implode. Of course the above would mean the elderly on that quickening slope towards death,better going back home

that would not interest me as I have tooooooooooooooooo much history and at 73 any big job that come's along if its worth having it done,otherwise it will suite  me to grin and bare it.and definitely no 30hr.trip back to the uk.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

29 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Let's just wait and see what finally emerges, at this stage they are just trying to convince an insurer that there is market demand. Once so convinced the insurer and their underwriters would do some research before actually designing the product.

 

And another important detail that remains un-addressed -- as mentioned above -- is the choice of hospital issue. Would a plan participant be able to use ANY government hospital, or only some one designated based on where they live.

 

As you've noted here many times in the past, there's a vastly WIDE range of quality and capability between the best and the worst government hospitals here. And if the policy limited people to only ONE local hospital, that could turn out to be a very bad choice in some cases/places.

 

One other thing that would worry me about this kind of effort:  that this being a new and previously untried approach, some insurer launches it, recruits policy holders, runs it for a couple years, and then decides it's not viable and simply cancels the whole thing or dramatically changes the premiums and/or coverage provisions.

 

At that point, any older people who signed up could have dropped their prior private policies, and then, left without anything, would be too old to sign up for any new private insurance coverage here in Thailand.  That kind of prospect would make me very wary about choosing such a plan in this kind of situation.

 

But I guess, that concern would not apply to those who currently have NO private insurance, and I guess they wouldn't be any worse off than before than if this kind of approach failed.

 

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[meatboy]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Except the STATE and its actors here are a bad or worse than any of the private parties you mention when it comes to leaching money out of the system that's supposed to take care of people.

 

Misspent funds, diverted funds, wasted funds. By the time they get thru with things, it's a wonder that there's any money left to actually pay to keep the government hospitals operating.

as whats posted above,i can vouch where do the government get the funds to keep them going.spending 6hrs.there Monday with so many people in and out all day,then watching them walk away from the hospital pharmacy with bags full of medication.i was there when a delivery was madeit took over 2hrs.back and fo with full trolly's.to deliver,i did not see more than a hand full have to pay for their meds.so what kind of budget they must have.so what the likes of Songkran must cost its got to be billions.

[poanoi]

16 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Except the STATE and its actors here are a bad or worse than any of the private parties you mention when it comes to leaching money out of the system that's supposed to take care of people.

 

Misspent funds, diverted funds, wasted funds. By the time they get thru with things, it's a wonder that there's any money left to actually pay to keep the government hospitals operating.

yes, i realized that a bit after i posted it,

but i dont have any answer to this dilemma