Older Persons Budget, UK, how much?

[simoh1490]

I'm trying to help an elderly British gentleman return to the UK to live and one of my tasks is to work out a budget for him. He's in reasonably good health, single with no family in the UK and plans to buy a one bedroom flat, I haven't lived in the UK for so long my numbers may not be reliable hence any pointers you can provide will be gratefully received. The initial monthly budget looks like this:

 

Rent - 0

Electric - 70 (heat, light and cooking)

Council Tax - 76 (Band A with 25% discount)

Internet/wifi - 22

Water/sewerage - 35

Contents Insurance - 6

TV license - 12

Groceries/Supermarket - 230

Car costs - 0

Medical costs - 0

Entertainment - variable

Travel - variable

 

Thanks in advance

[theoldgit]

The first question I have to ask is what do you call elderly, as I make my way through the decades my interpretation of the word changes?

I do wonder why your "elderly" friend is considering buying a flat rather than renting at his age, whatever that may be, with no family in the area, might he be better renting, freeing up capital and making it easier to change plans in a year or so if the need arrives?
Like your good self I'm a bit out of touch with UK prices, but you don't seem to be far off the mark, though it would of course depend on the his location and lifestyle, I'm assuming he's thinking of a town or city rather than somewhere more rural.
Of course if he is elderly enough to qualify he would be entitled to a free bus pass which would enable him to travel on local buses throughout the UK  

[krabi local]

House and contents insurance will be a lot more than that.  

I would think £100 a week would be more like it for supermarket.

[simoh1490]

22 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

The first question I have to ask is what do you call elderly, as I make my way through the decades my interpretation of the word changes?

I do wonder why your "elderly" friend is considering buying a flat rather than renting at his age, whatever that may be, with no family in the area, might he be better renting, freeing up capital and making it easier to change plans in a year or so if the need arrives?
Like your good self I'm a bit out of touch with UK prices, but you don't seem to be far off the mark, though it would of course depend on the his location and lifestyle, I'm assuming he's thinking of a town or city rather than somewhere more rural.
Of course if he is elderly enough to qualify he would be entitled to a free bus pass which would enable him to travel on local buses throughout the UK  

5

He's 70 years old in June so yes, he will qualify for a bus pass.

 

I've been round and round with him regarding buy vs rent. He's determined to buy because he wants to preserve his capital which he sees as extremely important, capital preservation is one of his motivations for going back. He's one of those people you just know he's going to live for another 20 years at least.

 

He wants to move to Lancaster which is not a bad choice at all, plenty of available lower cost accommodation, low crime and a vibrant place to live - being on the edge of The Lakes is a bonus of course, being near to Morecambe, less so.

[sammieuk1]

North or south massive variables in housing and council tax ? 

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, krabi local said:

House and contents insurance will be a lot more than that.  

I would think £100 a week would be more like it for supermarket.

1

The £5 per month is a real quote on contents only in the postcode where he will live so it's pretty certain.

 

I think you overestimate the grocery spend for an older single person, I spent an hour or so on Tesco UK online lookimg at prices and I reckon £50 a week is doable, assuming he cooks for himself which he will. I'll be interested however to hear from others on this point to see what they think.

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, sammieuk1 said:

North or south massive variables in housing and council tax ? 

The Council Tax quote is live and from the Council where he will live - property costs however are outside of my remit..

[NoshowJones]

You do not need a tv license over the age of 75 I think.

If someone could tell the OP about how easy or hard it is to get temporary accommodation, say a bedsit, and get help from the local authority with

the rent.

He could use this to allow him to stay until he finds a suitable one bedroom flat to buy.

Edited April 15, 2018 by possum1931

[mikosan]

How long has he been living in Thailand?  Has he really given serious thought to moving back to the UK?  Apart from the benefits of receiving NHS care for free, if and when he requires it, and you do say that he is currently in 'reasonably good health',  I would have thought that living here and renting somewhere would be better for capital preservation.  If he does return, buying a property will be like a millstone around his neck, if he changes his mind.  Better to rent for a while, to determine if he really does want to live back in the UK.  That said, good luck to him, I hope he finds he has made the correct move.

Edited April 15, 2018 by mikosan

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, theoldgit said:

The first question I have to ask is what do you call elderly, as I make my way through the decades my interpretation of the word changes?

I do wonder why your "elderly" friend is considering buying a flat rather than renting at his age, whatever that may be, with no family in the area, might he be better renting, freeing up capital and making it easier to change plans in a year or so if the need arrives?
Like your good self I'm a bit out of touch with UK prices, but you don't seem to be far off the mark, though it would of course depend on the his location and lifestyle, I'm assuming he's thinking of a town or city rather than somewhere more rural.
Of course if he is elderly enough to qualify he would be entitled to a free bus pass which would enable him to travel on local buses throughout the UK  

I don't think you can get a free bus pass to cover the whole UK, only the country you are living in.

[simoh1490]

15 minutes ago, mikosan said:

How long has he been living in Thailand?  Has he really given serious thought to moving back to the UK?  Apart from the benefits of receiving NHS care for free, if and when he requires it, and you do say that he is currently in good health,  I would have thought that living here and renting somewhere would be better for capital preservation.  If he does return, buying a property will be like a millstone around his neck, if he changes his mind.  Better to rent for a while, to determine if he really does want to live back in the UK.  That said, good luck to him, I hope he finds he has made the correct move.

I've been through all of that with him several times and his mind is made up, in part he's hankering to revisit some of the many things he's missed for a long time, architecture, the change in seasons, the countryside, an English pub for a pint, conversation beyond just banal, those sorts of things....he's actually quite level-headed and intelligent so this is not a whim. One thing he said to me recently when we were driving past the temple where they burn bodies......he said, have you ever seen that process, three or four chaps stood there pouring bottles of petrol onto the corpse and afterwards, taking a shovel to sift the big bone fragments from the dust, it's disgusting and degrading - I couldn't disagree. EDIT TO ADD: sorry I missed your question....he's lived here for the past twenty two years.

Edited April 15, 2018 by simoh1490

[Gruff]

I was living in centre of London a few years back and yes the grocery costs are way too high. Supermarkets are cheap and there  are always reduced foods an hour or 2 before shop closes. £100 per week would be a very healthy  budget for supermarket old or not.  If you own a property i  reckon allow roughly £200 per month for all the utilities / maintenance / council tax etc. It sounds like you have had this conversation with him but he seems determined to take money to the grave with him. At 70 years old i am far from convinced buying over renting makes sense. He may appear young and healthy now but regrettably it seems to only take one illness or  one fall and people 70 plus can go downhill very rapidly.

[animalmagic]

IRONY ALERT!!!!!!!

 

Don't worry about a budget.  NOT THAT I AM RECOMMENDING IT, but he should consider what would happen if he went back and murdered a politician or lawyer, pretty much the same really!  Plead guilty and he will probably be sent to an open prison, and certainly not a high security one.  All his meals, medicals, dental treatments, TV and entertainment will be on the house.  No need to worry about heating in winter and there will be a doctor on call 24 hours a day.  Lots of interesting hobbies and further studies for him to fill his days.  Relatives may even visit more as he is now officially interesting and worth talking about down the pub.

Do the world a favour and get looked after for the rest of your life!

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, Gruff said:

I was living in centre of London a few years back and yes the grocery costs are way too high. Supermarkets are cheap and there  are always reduced foods an hour or 2 before shop closes. £100 per week would be a very healthy  budget for supermarket old or not.  If you own a property i  reckon allow roughly £200 per month for all the utilities / maintenance / council tax etc. It sounds like you have had this conversation with him but he seems determined to take money to the grave with him. At 70 years old i am far from convinced buying over renting makes sense. He may appear young and healthy now but regrettably it seems to only take one illness or  one fall and people 70 plus can go downhill very rapidly.

Rather than take money to the grave, his wish is to ensure he has enough money to leave to his extended Thai family, I won't bore with the details but it's a noble idea that commands respect.

[stropper]

5 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I've been through all of that with him several times and his mind is made up, in part he's hankering to revisit some of the many things he's missed for a long time, architecture, the change in seasons, the countryside, an English pub for a pint, conversation beyond just banal, those sorts of things....he's actually quite level-headed and intelligent so this is not a whim. One thing he said to me recently when we were driving past the temple where they burn bodies......he said, have you ever seen that process, three or four chaps stood there pouring bottles of petrol onto the corpse and afterwards, taking a shovel to sift the big bone fragments from the dust, it's disgusting and degrading - I couldn't disagree.

absolute bar sitting coversation bullshit, go to a burn and see for yourself, 90% are gas fired now, even in the county were they use timber in a paddock area the fire is so intense there is nothing left, why do you poms always try to bend the truth,  at least its great  that we are getting rid of another whinger !

[Gruff]

Hmmm yes noble but i suspect capital invested in a UK property may create far too many problems for a Thai to benefit from.

[vogie]

You can buy a new static caravan on a site with fabulous views, some sites you have to leave your van every year for about 3 weeks, this exempts you from council tax. You can buy a van on some sites for about £20,000 and ground rent of about £1,500 a year. TV licence is not required if you don't watch live tv or BBC IPlayer, you can watch all other catchup tv.

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, stropper said:

absolute bar sitting coversation bullshit, go to a burn and see for yourself, 90% are gas fired now, even in the county were they use timber in a paddock area the fire is so intense there is nothing left, why do you poms always try to bend the truth,  at least its great  that we are getting rid of another whinger !

I think this is a troll post but I'll give it the benefit.

 

I have been to five in the past 16 years, each one is exactly as I have described, the most recent four months ago and of a very senior local person. I have never seen or even heard of gas fired cremation in Thailand, never, anywhere. A part of that is that Thai relatives require larger bone fragments to keep rather than dust and gas fired cremations doesn't allow that. 

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

You can buy a new static caravan on a site with fabulous views, some sites you have to leave your van every year for about 3 weeks, this exempts you from council tax. You can buy a van on some sites for about £20,000 and ground rent of about £1,500 a year. TV licence is not required if you don't watch live tv or BBC IPlayer, you can watch all other catchup tv.

When you say a static caravan I think of a mobile home, that being the case many are now some 100k each, they are no longer an inexpensive option. Holiday homes are one version of them, the length of site closure varies but most seem to be two months per year which might be difficult for an aging person. The idea is however a good one but I have looked at it but not in detail.

[champers]

Without being nosey; and this is an anonymous forum anyway; if you could give an idea of savings and income (pension, dividends) that would be quite helpful, I think.

[paulsingle]

I have a 2 bedroom apartment in Basingstoke, Hampshire and the figures you've listed are realistic if one is careful with energy and thrifty with grocery shopping. 

However, go and join friends once a week for a few pints and a bite to eat and you can add at least £100 a month.

[simoh1490]

Just now, champers said:

Without being nosey; and this is an anonymous forum anyway; if you could give an idea of savings and income (pension, dividends) that would be quite helpful, I think.

He has around £187k in cash and a monthly income currently of about £1,100, that will increase by about $172 per month when he returns since his State Pension will be uprated plus he will no longer be taxed on another overseas pension.

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

When you say a static caravan I think of a mobile home, that being the case many are now some 100k each, they are no longer an inexpensive option. Holiday homes are one version of them, the length of site closure varies but most seem to be two months per year which might be difficult for an aging person. The idea is however a good one but I have looked at it but not in detail.

There is no difference between a static and a mobile home, suffice to say statics are not mobile. 

The price of a static is IMO is dictated by the site, the more sought after sites will charge what they like, whereas a site with less facilities will charge less, £20,000 is doable, my daughter told me that the electric is also included in the ground rent, however I cannot verify this.

[mikosan]

31 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I've been through all of that with him several times and his mind is made up, in part he's hankering to revisit some of the many things he's missed for a long time, architecture, the change in seasons, the countryside, an English pub for a pint, conversation beyond just banal, those sorts of things....he's actually quite level-headed and intelligent so this is not a whim. One thing he said to me recently when we were driving past the temple where they burn bodies......he said, have you ever seen that process, three or four chaps stood there pouring bottles of petrol onto the corpse and afterwards, taking a shovel to sift the big bone fragments from the dust, it's disgusting and degrading - I couldn't disagree. EDIT TO ADD: sorry I missed your question....he's lived here for the past twenty two years.

Yes, in moments of melancholy I miss those things.  Then I watch the news, read the newspapers and chat to friends who live in the UK and I can see what it is really like.  However, that doesn't detract from my wishing him the best of luck, but again, I caution against the purchase of property, in case he changes his mind.  Furthermore, having read your response at #14 to another post, if he wants to leave money to his extended Thai family, then make sure he makes that watertight, legally.  But that then begs the question, wouldn't he have a better time remaining here with that same family, rather than returning to the UK where he has none?

Edited April 15, 2018 by mikosan

[Baerboxer]

Like you most of my cost ideas are outdated now. It's so long since I lived there. But most of the costs should be easily researched from government and various other websites. Zoopla is good for property prices, rental and purchase, and also utility charges, by post code. So he/you could do some comparisons between areas; city, town, country, coastal, England, Wales, Scotland etc.

He'll also need to get himself "back into all the systems' - GP, etc.

 

I wish him luck and good fortune. If he makes the move it would be very interesting to read of his experiences. From what I read, see on TV and social media, and hear from friends it's a much changed place to the one I left.

 

Edited April 15, 2018 by Baerboxer

[theoldgit]

I don't think you can get a free bus pass to cover the whole UK, only the country you are living in.

Whilst your bus pass has to be obtained from your local authority it is valid for all off peak local bus travel within England.
You can’t use it on National Express or inter city routes.
If you live in London your Freedom Pass also allows off peak travel on the Underground.

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, mikosan said:

Yes, in moments of melancholy I miss those things.  Then I watch the news, read the newspapers and chat to friends who live in the UK and I can see what it is really like.  However, that doesn't detract from my wishing him the best of luck, but again, I caution against the purchase of property.  Furthermore, having read your response at #14 to another post, if he wants to leave money to his extended Thai family, then make sure he makes that watertight, legally.  But that then begs the question, wouldn't he have a better time remaining here with that same family, rather than returning to the UK where he has none?

All valid points and much appreciated - the missing part of the jigsaw is that he doesn't have health insurance and almost certainly can't get it now except under extremely onerous terms and cost. And whilst he is currently in quite good health it is inevitable that this will change over time.

 

Regarding being watertight: I cannot begin to try and estimate how many hours I've spent on this subject with him. As things stand he has two linked wills, one for Thai based assets and the second for UK based assets - I am the executor of his Thai Will and a family member who is a UK Solicitor is his UK Executrix. Both Wills work together to ensure his assets end up where intended.

[NoshowJones]

18 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

Whilst your bus pass has to be obtained from your local authority it is valid for all off peak local bus travel within England.
You can’t use it on National Express or inter city routes.
If you live in London your Freedom Pass also allows off peak travel on the Underground.

In Scotland as far as I know, you can only use it there, I would expect it is the same in Wales and Northern Ireland.

[Tofer]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

You do not need a tv license over the age of 75 I think.

If someone could tell the OP about how easy or hard it is to get temporary accommodation, say a bedsit, and get help from the local authority with

the rent.

He could use this to allow him to stay until he finds a suitable one bedroom flat to buy.

He won't get any social security assistance if he has more than £16,000 (?) in the bank, which if he's planning to buy a flat will presumably be the case.

[English Engineer]

 I am amused that you refer to a 70 year as elderly. I am 70 in May and do not consider myself as elderly. In fact I still take leading roles on large projects outside Thailand.