So, you own a bar in Soi Cowboy, Pattaya or Patong, your a piss head idiot who offers nothing to Thai society but annoying the locals with your arrogance, you sell young Thai women for sex with drunk ferangs, but, your married and you want a visa. All you have to do is show that your bar (in your wifes name) is earning more than 40,000 baht a month and hey presto - theres your visa. (Don't forget the small "tax" to the local mafia!

The opposite scenario, your a teacher married in Isaan, you love the culture and the people, you help out in all the local events and really contribute to Thai society. You want a visa. Sorry mate - no degree in teaching or a one year TEFL so no visa for you.

What a crazy scenario!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Crazy yes but realty,sorry for you,think you can obtain a single non immigrant visa out of thailand based on marriage.

So, you own a bar in Soi Cowboy, Pattaya or Patong, your a piss head idiot...

The opposite scenario, your a teacher married in Isaan...

The bottom line, I guess, is that different qualifications are need to be a teacher than to be a bar owner, and if I were sending a child to school I would very much hope so.

--

Maestro

P.S. I am not a teacher and I guess neither are you.

So, you own a bar in Soi Cowboy, Pattaya or Patong, your a piss head idiot who offers nothing to Thai society but annoying the locals with your arrogance, you sell young Thai women for sex with drunk ferangs, but, your married and you want a visa. All you have to do is show that your bar (in your wifes name) is earning more than 40,000 baht a month and hey presto - theres your visa. (Don't forget the small "tax" to the local mafia!

The opposite scenario, your a teacher married in Isaan, you love the culture and the people, you help out in all the local events and really contribute to Thai society. You want a visa. Sorry mate - no degree in teaching or a one year TEFL so no visa for you.

What a crazy scenario!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

while i understand what youre talking about,i think it is right that the government attempt to crack down on the loopholes regarding teachers. bar owners deal with whores and punters,yes, but they are adults. teachers deal with children and therefore in my opinion should be highly regulated. theres an aweful lot of weird farang in this country and they do not just own bars do they??

Scenario 1 - I am an incredibly hansum guy with no brain at all and I can score all the totty I want

Scenario 2 - I am the kindest, nicest person ever with a hel_l case of acne and bad breath; and cannot find anyone.

For goodness sake, if you are a teacher and you haven't got a degree, that means you are not a teacher AFAIK...sad but true. Go and get a degree, jump through the hoops like the rest of us and you will meet what they are looking for. The people without degrees love to tell us how a degree doesn't make someone a better teacher.

Well....a degree doesn't make someone a better doctor, a better accountant, a better anything in itself, but it does show a propensity for learning and is one of many 'hoops' that many professionals (and teaching incidentally, is not generally regarded as a profession, professions are things like architect, doctor, engineer etc) have to jump through to be professionally certified in their field. DOn't like it? Tough, that is how it is.

Life isn't fair, it is surprising to me that some people have only just reached this conclusion at this age.

Some serious sour grapes here I feel.

I am a bar owner but i feel the arrogance seems to be coming from you.

As for giving nothing back to Thai society I suppose that's a matter of opinion.

I bet the average bar owner who does it correctly is paying more tax etc to the country than a teacher either from themselves or through their employees.

I agree that it seems a bit unfair. I was in a similar position as you are previously, while teaching in Bangkok a few years ago, but I voluntarily left because I felt like a bit of a fraud teaching without the proper qualifications. I was able to upgrade my qualifications and continue teach voluntarily. I now meet the criteria.

I think that if you really want to teach here you will need to do what is necessary to meet the requirements. I agree with the previous poster, I too wouldn't want my child being taught by someone without a degree.

I wish you all the best.

If it matters - teaching was traditionally considered a profession; prostitution never was.

Tis a shit world, then you die.

I can feel your frustration mate, but it is what it is.

That should only be an obstacle, not a blockade.

whats your other options?

So, you own a bar in Soi Cowboy, Pattaya or Patong, your a piss head idiot who offers nothing to Thai society but annoying the locals with your arrogance, you sell young Thai women for sex with drunk ferangs, but, your married and you want a visa. All you have to do is show that your bar (in your wifes name) is earning more than 40,000 baht a month and hey presto - theres your visa. (Don't forget the small "tax" to the local mafia!

The opposite scenario, your a teacher married in Isaan, you love the culture and the people, you help out in all the local events and really contribute to Thai society. You want a visa. Sorry mate - no degree in teaching or a one year TEFL so no visa for you.

What a crazy scenario!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you were a LEGAL teacher you would get a Non Immigrant B visa and a Work Permit. Simple as that.

So sort your $hit out and stop crying.

isaanbrit.

Thats reality and I feel the same way as you..but nobody promise you or me something when we did the decision to come and live in this country.

Never Never forget that its third world country. (as much as they try to say its not..) and the things that goes wrong ..corruption and more and more and more..ae countless.

Cheer up.

If it matters - teaching was traditionally considered a profession; prostitution never was.

I thought it was the oldest profession??

This is not the only absurd contrast.

A a single guy of 50 years old that hangs around in bars from the morning until the evening is allowed to get a 1 year extention based on 800K on a bank account without any income requirement.

A married person with children that go to school, with 2 million on his bank account is not allowed to stay unless the family has an income of 40K, which is really hard to get due to the work permit regulations.

You could say that married people always have the possibility to live in the country of the farang. But very often young married people have no other possibility than living in Thailand because the parents of the Thai partner are living in Thailand and someone needs to take care of them. So, the Thai partner needs to stay in Thailand. The farang is forced to stay in Thailand and make visa runs (which always get harder and always become more expensive) or find a very well paying job with work permit. Something that is probably only possible for a small group of highly educated farangs.

No matter how you look at it, Thai visa rules for young married people are hard and you shouldn't expect an easy life when marrying to a Thai national. Since october 2006 many young married couples are sent to hel_l.

Well....a degree doesn't make someone a better doctor, a better accountant, a better anything in itself, but it does show a propensity for learning and is one of many 'hoops' that many professionals (and teaching incidentally, is not generally regarded as a profession, professions are things like architect, doctor, engineer etc) have to jump through to be professionally certified in their field. DOn't like it? Tough, that is how it is.

Life isn't fair, it is surprising to me that some people have only just reached this conclusion at this age.

Well said.

If it matters - teaching was traditionally considered a profession; prostitution never was.

I thought it was the oldest profession??

That is the same thing what popped up in my mind

C'mon, that's the old saying, that it's the oldest profession. Point being, that they don't offer degrees in prostitution, or in pimping. But in my younger days, there were only about four professons: law, medicine, teaching, and nursing. Engineers and architects, no. But nowadays, somtam vending is a profession, and street sweeping.

If it matters - teaching was traditionally considered a profession; prostitution never was.

I thought it was known as the oldest profession in the world........................

Well....a degree doesn't make someone a better doctor, a better accountant, a better anything in itself, but it does show a propensity for learning and is one of many 'hoops' that many professionals (and teaching incidentally, is not generally regarded as a profession, professions are things like architect, doctor, engineer etc) have to jump through to be professionally certified in their field. DOn't like it? Tough, that is how it is.

Life isn't fair, it is surprising to me that some people have only just reached this conclusion at this age.

Well said.

I would disagree with the part about a doctor... Certainly it is the education and not the degree per say that make someone a good doctor. It is absolutely essential that a doctor have a thorough education. But an English teacher? Anyone can do that.

I don't disagree with your point, I just think doctor is a bad example.

Evaluation of a teacher should be up to the schools and not merely based on credentials. A Bachelor's Degree in whatever says nothing about the character of a person, nor does the lack of one. Any moron can complete a degree at the local uni. It's not difficult. It just requires an unusual amount of patience and a high tolerance for taking orders and completing menial tasks. In some countries, like the US, it also requires a fairly privileged background or else a willingness to mortgage the next 10 years of one's life with debts.

John Mark Karr had extremely good qualifications, didn't he? Better background checks and better evaluation of performance within the schools would be the ideal solution.

Edited January 26, 200719 yr by jeebusjones

Bottom line make 40k a month and no worries.

If it matters - teaching was traditionally considered a profession; prostitution never was.

I thought it was known as the oldest profession in the world........................

Most definitely a profession - come on some of the lads these ladies put up with - got to be hard work.

jeebus, if the Thai educators decide that farang teachers need degrees (and in most cases, the Thai teachers have degrees), that's final. Unless, of course, they're not serious.

However, jeebus, I think you exaggerate a trillion times per millisecond if you think that any moron can earn a bachelor's degree, or that anybody can teach English. Nope, not that easy.

Here's a common question for interviewing TEFL teachers: how do you teach the difference between the simple past tense, and the present perfect tense? Or, how do you elicit a response from L2 learners to be sure they understand what you've just taught them?

You're teaching a classof 51 students in a hot classroom, the soi dog walks in, Sachapasa's mobile phone rings, and Ponsakat is hanging out the window - what are your priorities?

In my opinion those who devalue degrees tend not to have them; I know I did. It is a type of reverse-snobery; like the poor who console themselves by believing that the rich are miserable.

I think a degree is important for teachers because it shows;

1) that they are commited to teaching because they have made the effort to get qualified

2) they have reached a certain academic level

3) that they are intrested in learning

I know from experience that Thai teachers are appalled at unqualified teachers coming to teach here and getting up to three times their salary. This is as annoying to them as Farangs who own girlie-bars is to the OP.

I hope the OP manages to get the needed qualifications as he clearly loves living in Thailand.

If it matters - teaching was traditionally considered a profession; prostitution never was.

Actually, Prostitution is the oldest profession in the world and the rapper

Too Short has a degree in Pimpology

PHD= Playa Hating Degree

Edited January 27, 200719 yr by pampal

In my opinion those who devalue degrees tend not to have them; I know I did. It is a type of reverse-snobery; like the poor who console themselves by believing that the rich are miserable.

I think a degree is important for teachers because it shows;

1) that they are commited to teaching because they have made the effort to get qualified

2) they have reached a certain academic level

3) that they are intrested in learning

I know from experience that Thai teachers are appalled at unqualified teachers coming to teach here and getting up to three times their salary. This is as annoying to them as Farangs who own girlie-bars is to the OP.

I hope the OP manages to get the needed qualifications as he clearly loves living in Thailand.

It's not that I devalue degrees. For most real professions (excluding the oldest), a degree is essential for exactly the reasons you've specified, and more. A doctor needs a good education. A lawyer needs a good education. An engineer, a physicist, etc all need excellent educations.

An English teacher does not. Anyone from US/UK/Australia etc already has a lifetime's experience. A TEFL or CELTA is more than enough to prep someone for teaching English. Requiring a degree for an English teacher is like requiring a degree for someone working at McDonald's or a 7/11.

If the concern is that there are children involved, then the key would be better background checks and closer supervision on the job. I can see the teachers are getting annoyed by this, but I have to say that while teaching may be a profession, teaching English is not. IMHO

jeebus, my mother had a B.Ed, my father had a BA, and my folks sent me to the best government school district they could afford. Then I graduated from a university. My English is standard American dialect, and I knew grammar well by age 16. The inner city kids and the rural hillbillies didn't have that background, and they cannot teach English. Da meer fakt dat yur mama spoak engrit duznt meen u can tych.

OTOH, you don't need a degree in linguistics to teach conversational English to prathom children in the provinces. You need stamina, patience, understanding, intelligence, diplomacy, humour, common sense, and a command of English that isn't found behind the counter of a fast food joint. To teach in a Thai school that calls itself international, you really need the equivalent of a B.Ed. (because they say so). And you need whatever the Thai govt. really means (because they say so).

A TEFL or CELTA cert is all you need, says jeebus. Well, I've been there and done that, and noticed that the students who didn't have a degree (even some who had a degree) didn't know the interrogative from a torque wrench. Any CELTA graduate will tell you how many people dropped out because it's so intensive and demanding (and that's for teaching adults, not children in a hot classroom with the soi dog).

jeebus, in my personal opinon, you're flat wrong to think that any Cockney or hillbilly can walk into a Thai classroom and say, "Howdy, y'all chilluns; we's gonna lurn Enklish 2day."

But if you was just saying all that in order to yank my chain and wind me up and mix my metaphors, you done good, jeebus.

It's not that I devalue degrees. For most real professions (excluding the oldest), a degree is essential for exactly the reasons you've specified, and more. A doctor needs a good education. A lawyer needs a good education. An engineer, a physicist, etc all need excellent educations.

An English teacher does not. Anyone from US/UK/Australia etc already has a lifetime's experience. A TEFL or CELTA is more than enough to prep someone for teaching English. Requiring a degree for an English teacher is like requiring a degree for someone working at McDonald's or a 7/11.

I wonder what the required qualifications are in the UK for a teacher of French language. Does anybody know?

--

Maestro

I'm an engineer, not a teacher. But I recognise that teaching is a 'profession' (whether or not it's legally classed as such). To think that you can be a good teacher just because your mother tongue is English and you have done a 4-week TEFL course is like saying that I can be a good electronics engineer because I know how to mend my radio and have done a 4-week course in TV maintenance.....Add another 3 or 4 years of formal education/learning and then you start to understand the basics of your subject...

Simon

The subject of degreed vs. non-degreed ESL teachers has been beat to death on the forums.

Fact seems to bear out a degree IS required to teach in most, if not all first world countries. The glorious "Land 'O Thais" being a 'developing third world' country has had the bar set way too low for their qualifications of English teachers for too long.

One need only look at their mediocre grasp (if that), or listen to the version of Engrlish spoken by even 'educated' munchkins here.

Unfortunately being in Nakhon No-where Issan "making a contribution to Thai society”, “helping out at all the local events” and of course "loving the culture and the people" means nothing to your qualifications as a teacher. I'm sorry but speaking English as your first language doesn't qualify you to teach it to someone as their second language by any stretch of logic.

The last time I checked; being truly married, meaning; registered at the Amphur, instead of just the "monk, string & gold “face show” put on for the villagers benefit, does give you some specific rights here, limited as they are.

Before you cast dispersions at the bar-owners in Bangkok, Pattaya, etc, please remember; MOST of their employees are from the 'prostitute bread basket' of the country; อีสาน. Billions of baht are on the 'money train' to the north east every year.

Never the less, IF you want to 'really' be a teacher, get a degree. If that is too much commitment, work, or expense for you, get a TEFL certificate. If even that is too much; well it would seem you’ve got whining about the unfairness & injustice of it all down pretty good. Perhaps an NGO would employ you to wring your hands and act concerned.

I firmly believe that quality education of the munchkin youth here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" is the only thing which can drag it out of "developing third world" status. While it is unlikely to happen in our lifetimes; as they say, 'hope springs eternal'.