Air con experts

[webfact]

Syria says chemical weapons experts may visit Douma on Wednesday

By Michelle Nichols and Angus McDowall

 

The United Nation vehicle carrying the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) inspectors is seen in Damascus, Syria April 17, 2018. REUTERS/Omar Sanadiki

 

UNITED NATIONS/BEIRUT (Reuters) - Syria's U.N. ambassador said a United Nations security team travelled to the Syrian town of Douma ahead of a planned visit by global chemical weapons experts on Wednesday to look into a suspected poison gas attack that sparked a U.S.-led retaliatory strike.

 

Western countries say scores of civilians sheltering from bombs were gassed to death in Douma on April 7. Syria and its ally Russia deny that any chemical attack took place.

 

"Today the U.N. security team entered Douma ... in order to assess the security situation on the ground and if this United Nations security team decided that the situation is sound in Douma then the fact-finding mission will begin its work in Douma tomorrow," Syrian Ambassador Bashar Ja'afari told the U.N. Security Council on Tuesday.

 

Earlier on Tuesday, Syrian state television reported that the experts from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons had entered Douma.

 

State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert said she was aware of reports from Syria that inspectors from the OPCW had been able to see the town but "our understanding is that the team has not entered Douma." A diplomatic source in The Hague, where the OPCW is based, said the experts did not enter Douma.

 

France said it was very likely that evidence of the poison gas attack was disappearing before the inspectors could reach the town.

 

Douma is now in the hands of government forces after the last rebels withdrew just hours after U.S., French and British forces fired more than 100 missiles to hit three suspected chemical weapons development or storage sites.

 

Russian U.N. Ambassador Vassily Nebenzia told the Security Council on Tuesday there was no point establishing a new inquiry to determine blame for chemical weapons attacks in Syria because Washington and its allies had already acted as judge and executioner.

 

Saturday's air strikes were the first coordinated Western strikes against President Bashar al-Assad's government in a seven-year war that has killed more than 500,000 people and drawn in global powers and neighbouring states.

 

The intervention threatened to escalate confrontation between the West and Russia but has had no significant impact on the ground, where Assad is now in his strongest position since the war's early days and shows no sign of slowing down his campaign to crush the rebellion.

 

YARMOUK

The Syrian army began preparatory shelling on Tuesday for an assault on the last area outside its control near Damascus, a commander in the pro-government alliance said.

 

Recovering the Yarmouk camp and neighbouring areas south of the city would give Assad complete control over Syria's capital. Yarmouk, Syria's biggest camp for Palestinian refugees, has been under the control of Islamic State fighters for years. Although most residents have fled, the United Nations says several thousand remain.

 

Assad has benefited from Russian air power since 2015 to regain large swathes of Syria. The suspected poison gas attack creates a conundrum for Western powers, who are determined to punish Assad for using chemical weapons but have no strategy for the sort of sustained intervention that might damage him.

 

Damascus and Moscow have broadcast statements from hospital workers in Douma - which medical aid groups operating in rebel areas have dismissed as propaganda - saying that no chemical attack took place.

 

Syrian state media reported that missiles had again targeted an airbase overnight, but the commander in the regional military alliance backing the government, speaking on condition of anonymity, later told Reuters it was a false alarm.

 

The commander said the new offensive would target Islamic State and Nusra Front militants in Yarmouk camp and al-Hajar al-Aswad district. Rebels in the adjoining Beit Sahm area had agreed to withdraw on buses, he said.

 

EASTERN GHOUTA

A government media tour on Monday of Douma, the biggest town in the former rebel enclave of eastern Ghouta just outside Damascus, revealed severe destruction and the plight of residents who had survived years of siege.

 

The assault on eastern Ghouta began in February and ended in government victory on Saturday when rebels withdrew from the town. All the rebel groups controlling areas of eastern Ghouta eventually agreed surrender deals that involved withdrawal to opposition-held areas of northwestern Syria.

 

After the recapture of eastern Ghouta, Assad still has several smaller pockets of ground to recover from rebels, as well as two major areas they hold in the northwest and southwest.

 

Besides the pocket south of Damascus, rebels still hold besieged enclaves in the town of Dumayr northeast of Damascus, in the Eastern Qalamoun mountains nearby and around Rastan north of Homs.

 

The pro-government commander said the army had prepared for military action in the Eastern Qalamoun, but that Russia was working on securing the rebels' withdrawal without a battle. State television said on Tuesday that rebels in Dumayr had also agreed to withdraw.

 

In Idlib in northwest Syria, the largest area still held by rebels, a government assault could bring Damascus into confrontation with Turkey, which has set up a string of military observation posts in the area.

 

Ali Akbar Velayati, a top Iranian official, said during a visit to Damascus last week that he hoped the army would soon regain Idlib and areas of eastern Syria now held by an alliance of Kurdish and Arab militias backed by Washington.

 

(Reporting by Laila Bassam, additional reporting by Dahlia Nehme, Anthony Deutsh and Michelle Nichols; Writing by Angus McDowall and Peter Graff; Editing by Kevin Liffey and Cynthia Osterman)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-04-18

[Topdoc]

If the targets of the U.S.-led retaliatory strike housed deadly chemicals, why were there no casualties from the fallout?

[Morch]

28 minutes ago, Topdoc said:

If the targets of the U.S.-led retaliatory strike housed deadly chemicals, why were there no casualties from the fallout?

 

Take your pick, as if this wasn't asked and answered multiple times.

 

(a) There was ample time for some materials to be removed prior to the attack.

(b) Materials would not necessarily be stored in volatile state.

(c) Personnel and others nearby could have been evacuated.

(d) Munitions used can be configured to inflict varying amounts of damage, in various ways.

(e) I don't suppose Assad will encourage an independent fact-checking inquiry related to targets attacked.

[xylophone]

First of all, and for the record, I wouldn't trust Putin or Assad as far as I could throw them, nor would I put anything past them as regards to something like a chemical weapon attack on innocent civilians.

 

Having said that I just have a nagging doubt about the veracity of the poison gas claims, because as one friend had said, he has seen a video in the past of this and it definitely looked staged in his opinion? I offer no opinion of my own in this regard.

 

As if to add to that nagging doubt, I saw an excerpt on BBC News last night where one of the occupants was being interviewed and said that a rocket (or similar) had landed on his roof and sent poisonous gas into his house. He then went upstairs on the roof to show the reporter this "rocket" and it was in fact what looked to be like a gas cylinder of the type that would be used for welding/oxygen/acetylene etc and it was intact.

 

Now I'm not a bomb expert or anything like that but I have worked with those cylinders and they are extremely durable, probably hence the reason why this one was still intact. However it was not a bomb as such, and would someone really drop one of those cylinders from on high hoping that gas would be spread, if indeed it did contain gas – – – or was it something which had been put there for the cameras hoping that just a quick glimpse of it would convince some people that it was indeed a gas bomb.

 

Again for the record I sincerely hope that the accusations behind the "gas bombing" are proven or disproven once and for all, and if proven, then the appropriate action should be taken and I mean severe, appropriate action.

[Morch]

13 minutes ago, xylophone said:

First of all, and for the record, I wouldn't trust Putin or Assad as far as I could throw them, nor would I put anything past them as regards to something like a chemical weapon attack on innocent civilians.

 

Having said that I just have a nagging doubt about the veracity of the poison gas claims, because as one friend had said, he has seen a video in the past of this and it definitely looked staged in his opinion? I offer no opinion of my own in this regard.

 

As if to add to that nagging doubt, I saw an excerpt on BBC News last night where one of the occupants was being interviewed and said that a rocket (or similar) had landed on his roof and sent poisonous gas into his house. He then went upstairs on the roof to show the reporter this "rocket" and it was in fact what looked to be like a gas cylinder of the type that would be used for welding/oxygen/acetylene etc and it was intact.

 

Now I'm not a bomb expert or anything like that but I have worked with those cylinders and they are extremely durable, probably hence the reason why this one was still intact. However it was not a bomb as such, and would someone really drop one of those cylinders from on high hoping that gas would be spread, if indeed it did contain gas – – – or was it something which had been put there for the cameras hoping that just a quick glimpse of it would convince some people that it was indeed a gas bomb.

 

Again for the record I sincerely hope that the accusations behind the "gas bombing" are proven or disproven once and for all, and if proven, then the appropriate action should be taken and I mean severe, appropriate action.

 

"because as one friend had said, he has seen a video in the past of this and it definitely looked staged in his opinion.."

 

Was the friend an expert at analyzing such evidence? Was his analysis verified? Which video is referred to?

 

"I saw an excerpt on BBC News last night where one of the occupants was being interviewed...."

 

Again, would be easier if material mentioned would be clearly referenced. But other than that - I think the allegations revolve around use of what's known as "barrel bombs", rather than rockets, missiles or standard issued munitions. I'd be somewhat weary of many of the interviews presented in the aftermath. Syrian government taking control of the area cannot be discounted as a factor, nor can hyping of events by those on the other side. Quite a bit of disinformation making the rounds, some of it pretty clever.

 

 

 

[xylophone]

22 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

"because as one friend had said, he has seen a video in the past of this and it definitely looked staged in his opinion.."

 

Was the friend an expert at analyzing such evidence? Was his analysis verified? Which video is referred to?

 

"I saw an excerpt on BBC News last night where one of the occupants was being interviewed...."

 

Again, would be easier if material mentioned would be clearly referenced. But other than that - I think the allegations revolve around use of what's known as "barrel bombs", rather than rockets, missiles or standard issued munitions. I'd be somewhat weary of many of the interviews presented in the aftermath. Syrian government taking control of the area cannot be discounted as a factor, nor can hyping of events by those on the other side. Quite a bit of disinformation making the rounds, some of it pretty clever.

 

 

 

Don't disagree with what you have said............but I do have my doubts, all be they not "overwhelming".

 

I do recall the WMD "extremely strong evidence" which turned out to be false, despite the major world powers checking out the "evidence" and acting on it.

 

We may never know the truth....."in war, truth is the first casualty". 

 

 

[Morch]

15 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Don't disagree with what you have said............but I do have my doubts, all be they not "overwhelming".

 

I do recall the WMD "extremely strong evidence" which turned out to be false, despite the major world powers checking out the "evidence" and acting on it.

 

We may never know the truth....."in war, truth is the first casualty". 

 

 

 

A somewhat different situation - no one denies Assad had a large stock of chemical weapons. Doubts that all of it was disposed of following previous agreement linger, and either way, stuff such as chlorine is not exactly covered. There are numerous reports of Assad's forces making use of chemical weapons during the civil war. There were various UN reports supporting such allegations (not in all instances). There's also no invasion on the horizon, and no effective efforts to remove Assad from power, rhetoric aside.

 

 

[sukhumvitneon]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Take your pick, as if this wasn't asked and answered multiple times.

 

(a) There was ample time for some materials to be removed prior to the attack.

(b) Materials would not necessarily be stored in volatile state.

(c) Personnel and others nearby could have been evacuated.

(d) Munitions used can be configured to inflict varying amounts of damage, in various ways.

(e) I don't suppose Assad will encourage an independent fact-checking inquiry related to targets attacked.

Just like how Saddam Hussein moved the WMDs right?

[Topdoc]

Lawrence Wilkerson, former Chief of Staff to Colin Powell, tells Abby Martin: “I spoke to intelligence people in the US & Syria. None could confirm Assad used chemical weapons. The evidence looked more strongly it was other parties"

[Topdoc]

Robert Fisk is an excellent investigative journalist. He is twice winner of the British Press Awards‘ Journalist of the Year prize, and seven time winner of the British Press Awards’ Foreign Correspondent of the Year.
He went to Douma and this is what he reports:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-chemical-attack-gas-douma-robert-fisk-ghouta-damascus-a8307726.html 

"the patients, he says, were overcome not by gas but by oxygen starvation in the rubbish-filled tunnels and basements in which they lived, on a night of wind and heavy shelling that stirred up a dust storm."

[The Deerhunter]

4 hours ago, xylophone said:

First of all, and for the record, I wouldn't trust Putin or Assad as far as I could throw them, nor would I put anything past them as regards to something like a chemical weapon attack on innocent civilians.

 

Having said that I just have a nagging doubt about the veracity of the poison gas claims, because as one friend had said, he has seen a video in the past of this and it definitely looked staged in his opinion? I offer no opinion of my own in this regard.

 

As if to add to that nagging doubt, I saw an excerpt on BBC News last night where one of the occupants was being interviewed and said that a rocket (or similar) had landed on his roof and sent poisonous gas into his house. He then went upstairs on the roof to show the reporter this "rocket" and it was in fact what looked to be like a gas cylinder of the type that would be used for welding/oxygen/acetylene etc and it was intact.

 

Now I'm not a bomb expert or anything like that but I have worked with those cylinders and they are extremely durable, probably hence the reason why this one was still intact. However it was not a bomb as such, and would someone really drop one of those cylinders from on high hoping that gas would be spread, if indeed it did contain gas – – – or was it something which had been put there for the cameras hoping that just a quick glimpse of it would convince some people that it was indeed a gas bomb.

 

Again for the record I sincerely hope that the accusations behind the "gas bombing" are proven or disproven once and for all, and if proven, then the appropriate action should be taken and I mean severe, appropriate action.

Whatever, we can be sure there will be no evidence there by the time the investigators get there.  But I genuinely hope they do find some genuine evidence of gas attack.  We do not need another fake WOMD fiasco like Saddam's one.  That one ain't finished, even yet, what, 17, 18 years later?

[The Deerhunter]

1 hour ago, Topdoc said:

Robert Fisk is an excellent investigative journalist. He is twice winner of the British Press Awards‘ Journalist of the Year prize, and seven time winner of the British Press Awards’ Foreign Correspondent of the Year.
He went to Douma and this is what he reports:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-chemical-attack-gas-douma-robert-fisk-ghouta-damascus-a8307726.html 

"the patients, he says, were overcome not by gas but by oxygen starvation in the rubbish-filled tunnels and basements in which they lived, on a night of wind and heavy shelling that stirred up a dust storm."

Oh Dear!!!!!  Please, not more Iraq-WOMD-style egg-on-face?  The world does not need that!!  Syria is and always was going to be just such a total mess.  In the early days of the civil war, when Russian oil interests bought the largest Syrian oil company, it was fated to go like this.  But why Iran as an ally?   The Syrian Baath party used to be Sunni like Iraq and we all know that Sunni Iraq & Shiite Iran never got on.  What a crazy world we live in.  And even crazier for the influence of extreme religious beliefs.

Edited April 18, 2018 by The Deerhunter

[Khun Han]

10 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

Whatever, we can be sure there will be no evidence there by the time the investigators get there.  But I genuinely hope they do find some genuine evidence of gas attack.  We do not need another fake WOMD fiasco like Saddam's one.  That one ain't finished, even yet, what, 17, 18 years later?

 

Our government in the UK told us that it would take months to clean up the contamination from the Skripal incident in Salisbury. How could the Syrians and Russians clean up all traces of an exponentially larger chemical incident in a few days? 

[Odysseus123]

40 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Our government in the UK told us that it would take months to clean up the contamination from the Skripal incident in Salisbury. How could the Syrians and Russians clean up all traces of an exponentially larger chemical incident in a few days? 

Well..we would certainly have satellite images of them working like beavers,wouldn't we?

[xylophone]

19 hours ago, Morch said:

 

"because as one friend had said, he has seen a video in the past of this and it definitely looked staged in his opinion.."

 

Was the friend an expert at analyzing such evidence? Was his analysis verified? Which video is referred to?

 

"I saw an excerpt on BBC News last night where one of the occupants was being interviewed...."

 

Again, would be easier if material mentioned would be clearly referenced. But other than that - I think the allegations revolve around use of what's known as "barrel bombs", rather than rockets, missiles or standard issued munitions. I'd be somewhat weary of many of the interviews presented in the aftermath. Syrian government taking control of the area cannot be discounted as a factor, nor can hyping of events by those on the other side. Quite a bit of disinformation making the rounds, some of it pretty clever.

 

 

 

So in a nutshell, neither you, me, that friend of mine nor the BBC presenter, know anything at all.........that is why these posts are all speculation and opinions until the truth is known, however I do like the points made by Khun Han and Odysseus123 as they seem at least, logical.

[The Deerhunter]

13 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Our government in the UK told us that it would take months to clean up the contamination from the Skripal incident in Salisbury. How could the Syrians and Russians clean up all traces of an exponentially larger chemical incident in a few days? 

Has to be a rhetorical question, but if it isn't: Different chemical?  Who knows.  We plebs may never be told the truth.

[Odysseus123]

2 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

Has to be a rhetorical question, but if it isn't: Different chemical?  Who knows.  We plebs may never be told the truth.

Ah..yes..the truth.

 

Please substitute 'proles' for 'plebs';-it gives you a better feel for the thing.

[piewarmer]

this guy was there with his selfie stick, check it out, funny at times.

 

[Khun Han]

 

[Scott]

Questionable video and posts replying to it removed.  

 

[piewarmer]

7 hours ago, piewarmer said:

this guy was there with his selfie stick, check it out, funny at times.

 

no comments so far, unbelievable