Tourist police crackdown on "international schools" employing illegal foreign teachers

[FitnessHealthTravel]

Go Big Joke!!!

[Internatltraveler]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It is like a watching a circus of an expat parade sometimes here. If the police do something that follows the laws here then it is "not enough" or criticized for doing what they are paid to do. And on the opposite side, if they don't do something some of us think they should be doing then we criticize and are judgmental about their lack of action. Never ceases to amaze me.

 

On this specific article. Having lived internationally in nine countries as a permanent resident and in some cases working as an ESL instructor (but with a teacher's certification from the USA, and holding a high level of advanced education whereby I am also qualified to teach at the university level), my personal opinion is that back packers are simply taking advantage of the system of being recruited based on native English skills and little else. There are few professionally qualified teachers who would accept such low compensation for the work they have to do and put up with the nonsense of visas and the like they are required to obtain, so the black market thrives on the supply and demand. Both parties to these actions are fully aware that they are doing something illegal in most all cases and both parties can always blame the other side for misleading,

 

There is no wonder that English is not being learned in non English speaking countries. Between the teachers that teach English in their native tongues, and the unqualified teachers then matched by the get rich quick mentality of many "so called schools" what would we expect. I for one am happy to see this crackdown on the whole corrupt system. Is there more to do, absolutely, but how does one eat an elephant if not one bite at a time. We need more good guys like Big Joke doing their job, and maybe there will be more, maybe not, but to sit on your bar stools and criticize someone for doing what they are paid to do with the very little they are getting paid to do it, well maybe it is you that has the more serious problem.

 

Corruption has existed for over 5,000 years in this culture, and look at your own cultures that are a mere 100's years old that are full of corruption also. Maybe your countries will get as good as Thailand if they were around for 5000 years which is highly unlikely. It's a way of life here, like it or not. It is the oil that makes this machine work. We either adapt to it or we get our tail feathers all ruffled up and sit and judge this culture while our own cultures leave a lot to be desired or maybe a lot of us would not be here in Thailand in reality. Anyway, just one man's thoughts who reads this forum only from time to time and is always amazed at the no win thinking of this forum and its readers. I would be curious if it is even slightly possible if for one or two editions we all could look at only the positives and not the negatives living in our host country....nah forget it, that would be too much to dream for!

[quandow]

I've worked at two actual international schools and several that "claimed" to have an international branch. The ones that claimed were as crooked as a dog's hind leg. One of them recently got raided by immigration - someone at the school got tipped off in time and the illegal teachers scattered like cockroaches. Up until now we thought this unimaginable; we were CERTAIN brown envelopes were being passed along somewhere. This Big Joke guy seems to be as real a deal as you can get in LOS!

[ratcatcher]

3 hours ago, CGW said:

Well, I for one will sleep better knowing this heinous beings are no longer "teaching"  incorrect grammar, vocabulary & pronunciation of the English language & ruining lives with poor teaching mythology!

Well done BIB, be going after real criminals soon!

"...........poor teaching mythology! "

As long as it's the Siamese version of the Ramayana myth. Perhaps that's what Thai teachers do.

OTOH  methodology where " 'elping kids talk good English is taken serious by the better class of skool ."

[humbug]

26 minutes ago, quandow said:

I've worked at two actual international schools and several that "claimed" to have an international branch. The ones that claimed were as crooked as a dog's hind leg. One of them recently got raided by immigration - someone at the school got tipped off in time and the illegal teachers scattered like cockroaches. Up until now we thought this unimaginable; we were CERTAIN brown envelopes were being passed along somewhere. This Big Joke guy seems to be as real a deal as you can get in LOS!

i wouldnt know much about this school or private/international/public schools but like you mentioned it seems to be different this time as

I went past on my way into town this morning around 7am passing through rama3 not far from klong toei and on the left was a thai school called Nonsi and on the right side were 3 tourist police wearing polo shirts with badges and one plain clothes lady pointing in the direction of the school.

 

So good luck to all those teachers part of that establishment

 

[CGW]

22 minutes ago, ratcatcher said:

"...........poor teaching mythology! "

As long as it's the Siamese version of the Ramayana myth. Perhaps that's what Thai teachers do.

OTOH  methodology where " 'elping kids talk good English is taken serious by the better class of skool ."

Hey, blame spel cheque, not me! I dont doo resposibility blame! seamed apt!

[mommysboy]

59 minutes ago, Internatltraveler said:

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It is like a watching a circus of an expat parade sometimes here. If the police do something that follows the laws here then it is "not enough" or criticized for doing what they are paid to do. And on the opposite side, if they don't do something some of us think they should be doing then we criticize and are judgmental about their lack of action. Never ceases to amaze me.

 

On this specific article. Having lived internationally in nine countries as a permanent resident and in some cases working as an ESL instructor (but with a teacher's certification from the USA, and holding a high level of advanced education whereby I am also qualified to teach at the university level), my personal opinion is that back packers are simply taking advantage of the system of being recruited based on native English skills and little else. There are few professionally qualified teachers who would accept such low compensation for the work they have to do and put up with the nonsense of visas and the like they are required to obtain, so the black market thrives on the supply and demand. Both parties to these actions are fully aware that they are doing something illegal in most all cases and both parties can always blame the other side for misleading,

 

There is no wonder that English is not being learned in non English speaking countries. Between the teachers that teach English in their native tongues, and the unqualified teachers then matched by the get rich quick mentality of many "so called schools" what would we expect. I for one am happy to see this crackdown on the whole corrupt system. Is there more to do, absolutely, but how does one eat an elephant if not one bite at a time. We need more good guys like Big Joke doing their job, and maybe there will be more, maybe not, but to sit on your bar stools and criticize someone for doing what they are paid to do with the very little they are getting paid to do it, well maybe it is you that has the more serious problem.

 

Corruption has existed for over 5,000 years in this culture, and look at your own cultures that are a mere 100's years old that are full of corruption also. Maybe your countries will get as good as Thailand if they were around for 5000 years which is highly unlikely. It's a way of life here, like it or not. It is the oil that makes this machine work. We either adapt to it or we get our tail feathers all ruffled up and sit and judge this culture while our own cultures leave a lot to be desired or maybe a lot of us would not be here in Thailand in reality. Anyway, just one man's thoughts who reads this forum only from time to time and is always amazed at the no win thinking of this forum and its readers. I would be curious if it is even slightly possible if for one or two editions we all could look at only the positives and not the negatives living in our host country....nah forget it, that would be too much to dream for!

By and large you are ill informed.

[les Dennis]

I for one wouldn't want my kid coming back speaking English with a Nigerian accent. 

[mommysboy]

TEFL karma!

 

They've driven away the TEFL/CELTA teachers, and look who has come in their place.

 

I don't usually write such things, but......serves you right Thailand!

[NoshowJones]

8 hours ago, taipan1949 said:

You overstay then you deserve the full hit of the law. Every person living in Thailand knows the rules, if you choose to disobey them then you need to be deported. At least Thailand deports illegals not like America and Canada.

or the UK.

[dinsdale]

You want to get serious then check ALL schools and ALL skin colours (nationalities). Anyone working here on falsified documents are working illegally. Maybe it's time to clean up and overhaul the whole system. Unfortunatly this will probably mean the idiots at the top will start demanding a Masters of Education to teach in Thailand.

They have absolutely no idea.

Edited April 27, 2018 by dinsdale

[jenny2017]

7 hours ago, bbbbooboo said:

hmmmm..... one might wonder why they do this when their own teaching abilities are nothing short of appalling....hmmm TIT ?

Arrai Na?

[jenny2017]

41 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

You want to get serious then check ALL schools and ALL skin colours (nationalities). Anyone working here on falsified documents are working illegally. Maybe it's time to clean up and overhaul the whole system. Unfortunatly this will probably mean the idiots at the top will start demanding a Masters of Education to teach in Thailand.

They have absolutely no idea.

No idea how much you know about the educational system in Thailand. Most government, primary, and secondary schools have their midterm break.

 

  

[jenny2017]

1 hour ago, les Dennis said:

I for one wouldn't want my kid coming back speaking English with a Nigerian accent. 

   I've never worked with a Nigerian in 13 years. many of them sell drugs in Bangkok, as far as I know.

 

   Of course are there a few exceptions. But if I were a professional teacher from Nigeria, Thailand would not be on my list to look for a teaching position, because they are so racist. 

 

    It's not fair to judge a book by its cover. 

[dinsdale]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

On this specific article. Having lived internationally in nine countries as a permanent resident and in some cases working as an ESL instructor (but with a teacher's certification from the USA, and holding a high level of advanced education whereby I am also qualified to teach at the university level)

 

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

Corruption has existed for over 5,000 years in this culture, and look at your own cultures that are a mere 100's years old that are full of corruption also. Maybe your countries will get as good as Thailand if they were around for 5000 years which is highly unlikely.

Well I'm glad you have a high level of advanced education (whatever that means) and that you have a previous history as an ESL instuctor. I may well use the latter quote in some of my English classes. 

[ericthai]

9 hours ago, taipan1949 said:

You overstay then you deserve the full hit of the law. Every person living in Thailand knows the rules, if you choose to disobey them then you need to be deported. At least Thailand deports illegals not like America and Canada.

one of the issues is Thailand never really enforced overstays before. People would overstay years, pay a fine everyone would laugh and turn around and be right back in.   It' only the last 15 years or so They really started cracking down and being serious about overstay.    

 

The schools dont care because the rules for them are not enforced. The schools tell their naive teachers everything is ok, they most of the teachers believe the school.  

 

If the govt started cracking down on the employers only then will things change. but  TIT

 

Edited April 27, 2018 by ericthai

[dinsdale]

12 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

No idea how much you know about the educational system in Thailand. Most government, primary, and secondary schools have their midterm break.

 

  

What has that got to do with the overall gist of my comment on the article? I'm saying that it's just not those of a 'darker complexion' who are working here illegally. Did you read my post? Here it is again.

 

You want to get serious then check ALL schools and ALL skin colours (nationalities). Anyone working here on falsified documents are working illegally. Maybe it's time to clean up and overhaul the whole system. Unfortunatly this will probably mean the idiots at the top will start demanding a Masters of Education to teach in Thailand.

They have absolutely no idea.

 

What has this got to do with school holidays?

p.s. 15 years teaching / living here. Think I know a bit about the education system here.

[Slip]

4 hours ago, Internatltraveler said:

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It is like a watching a circus of an expat parade sometimes here. If the police do something that follows the laws here then it is "not enough" or criticized for doing what they are paid to do. And on the opposite side, if they don't do something some of us think they should be doing then we criticize and are judgmental about their lack of action. Never ceases to amaze me.

 

On this specific article. Having lived internationally in nine countries as a permanent resident and in some cases working as an ESL instructor (but with a teacher's certification from the USA, and holding a high level of advanced education whereby I am also qualified to teach at the university level), my personal opinion is that back packers are simply taking advantage of the system of being recruited based on native English skills and little else. There are few professionally qualified teachers who would accept such low compensation for the work they have to do and put up with the nonsense of visas and the like they are required to obtain, so the black market thrives on the supply and demand. Both parties to these actions are fully aware that they are doing something illegal in most all cases and both parties can always blame the other side for misleading,

 

There is no wonder that English is not being learned in non English speaking countries. Between the teachers that teach English in their native tongues, and the unqualified teachers then matched by the get rich quick mentality of many "so called schools" what would we expect. I for one am happy to see this crackdown on the whole corrupt system. Is there more to do, absolutely, but how does one eat an elephant if not one bite at a time. We need more good guys like Big Joke doing their job, and maybe there will be more, maybe not, but to sit on your bar stools and criticize someone for doing what they are paid to do with the very little they are getting paid to do it, well maybe it is you that has the more serious problem.

 

Corruption has existed for over 5,000 years in this culture, and look at your own cultures that are a mere 100's years old that are full of corruption also. Maybe your countries will get as good as Thailand if they were around for 5000 years which is highly unlikely. It's a way of life here, like it or not. It is the oil that makes this machine work. We either adapt to it or we get our tail feathers all ruffled up and sit and judge this culture while our own cultures leave a lot to be desired or maybe a lot of us would not be here in Thailand in reality. Anyway, just one man's thoughts who reads this forum only from time to time and is always amazed at the no win thinking of this forum and its readers. I would be curious if it is even slightly possible if for one or two editions we all could look at only the positives and not the negatives living in our host country....nah forget it, that would be too much to dream for!

Many posters here seem to be ignorant of the rules to teach in this country, and your whole post is based on a flawed premise.

 

A degree is required, but a teaching qualification is not (at least in the short term).  Backpackers are as valid as you or I as long as they hold the necessary degree and are native speakers.  As you say, qualified teachers for the most part are not going to come here and work for 30k a month, but that does not mean that those who are not 'qualified' as teachers in their home country are not qualified to teach here, and it is certainly not the 'black market' as you term it.  You miss the point however about both parties being to blame.  I have never yet met a teacher who started on their first day with all paperwork in hand and above board except in a genuine international school.  It is (in my experience) literally impossible because of the attitudes of the Thai schools' management.  The point I am making here is that even if a new teacher comes with everything they need to be legally employed, the chances of the school doing what they need to do to make it legal are negligible.

 

Meanwhile the supply of 'qualified' native English speaking teachers in the kingdom has plummeted in relation to demand over the 15 years that I have been teaching here.  They are making better money in other Asian countries without all the hoop jumping.

 

I make no comment about your inability to make a point and back it up with logical and structured details and examples as befits someone who is qualified to teach at university level.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Slip

[MyFriend You]

12 hours ago, taipan1949 said:

At least Thailand deports illegals not like America and Canada.

What do you mean by this comment?  appears to be a deliberate attempt to draw remarks from Americans and Canadians,  our countries deport illegals everyday by the dozens, we don't deport legals at any time.     Explain yourself. 

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.  

[The Old Bull]

13 hours ago, taipan1949 said:

You overstay then you deserve the full hit of the law. Every person living in Thailand knows the rules, if you choose to disobey them then you need to be deported. At least Thailand deports illegals not like America and Canada.

The US and Canada let the lawyers feed till they are full then deport them. Remember a lot of laws are made by lawyers to ensure they have maximum benefits. 

[arithai12]

6 hours ago, les Dennis said:

I for one wouldn't want my kid coming back speaking English with a Nigerian accent. 

Not that a Geordie or Texan accent would be much better.

 

 

 

[quandow]

12 hours ago, ratcatcher said:

OTOH  methodology where " 'elping kids talk good English is taken serious by the better class of skool ."

You BOOR! That's " 'elping kids talks good English"

 

[Ajarnbrian]

Good to see this crackdown. Dodgy schools employing people on tourist visas who are not real, qualified teachers is ripping off students and their parents. It is also damaging the reputation of the good, genuine schools and their teachers in Thailand. 

[happy chappie]

 I had a tenant who started teaching in the private school here.he was the talk of the town with the parents like he was going to fix things and the kids get some proper education.he lasted a week and jacked the job.the school only wanted him to turn up suited and booted so the parents could see mr nice teacher.it was  low paid but he wanted to get out and not sit on his backside all day and was a headache of a school.he left and found a job on line teaching Chinese English and earns over double if not triple doing part time to one on one students who really do want to learn.the government ain't got the time for education and it's costs.oh and the icing on the cake of corruption going on.from what I read and hear Thai theaching is appalling but it don't matter because the elite send their children abroad to learn.

[Rimkok]

19 hours ago, Jeremy50 said:

So what constitutes an international school in Thailand? An over-priced pretentious establishment, often hiding behind prestigious names such as Harrow or Rugby etc. The students dress in Australian style school uniforms, and everyone speaks English with an annoying antipodean rising inflection, that makes every sentence sound like a question. The parents are usually a particularly irritating type of ex-pat who spend their time golfing and sailing, and attending sweaty gala dinners in Bangkok in aid of some worthless charity.  

 

Sorry to hear you can't afford to send your children to an International School Jeremy.

[jak2002003]

18 minutes ago, Rimkok said:

Sorry to hear you can't afford to send your children to an International School Jeremy.

Its his choice what school to send his children to.  

 

I also would consider the international schools here the worst place to send my children.. and it's nothing to do with cost.

 

Your comment is just snobbery.  You think international school are better as they cost more?

 

They are not better in many cases, marketing to parents with more money than sense and pushing their 'high so' ways.  I know many teachers at such schools.. they are drunks, druggies and wasters.. with low morals and no care for their job or the children.  I would hate my children to be even around them, let alone taught by them.

 

I would not want my children to attend these schools.  My kids would be mixing with spoilt brats, start speaking with an annoying high pitched American winy accent, get into trouble with smoking, drugs, bad behaviour, bullying.. all rampant in such schools.  Many of these schools also sneak in their Christian religion and prayers to brainwash the children.  

 

The local Thai schools are much nicer in my area.  Children are respectful, well mannered, well socialised, my children could speak Thai and English (not American English only).  I don't have to get up at 5 am to travel long distances stuck in traffic to get to the school.  The kids can walk to their school or its just a 10 minute drive from the house.  The children have more free time before and after school to play and be kids.

 

The international schools are just one other way to isolate your family form Thai society.. the country you are living in.. but won't integrate into.

 

I bet after picking the children up from their overpriced International school you then drive them to the overprices American supermarket to buy Farang food, then off too McDonalds.. maybe catch a farang Movie and the shopping mall.  Why some people live here is a mystery to me.   

 

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2018 by jak2002003

[hotchilli]

It's two-way street... deport the illegals & hammer the schools.... 

the word will get around to the "principals" to do a few more checks rather than hiring cheapest labour available !

[Rimkok]

9 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Its his choice what school to send his children to.  

 

I also would consider the international schools here the worst place to send my children.. and it's nothing to do with cost.

 

Your comment is just snobbery.  You think international school are better as they cost more?

 

They are not better in many cases, marketing to parents with more money than sense and pushing their 'high so' ways.  I know many teachers at such schools.. they are drunks, druggies and wasters.. with low morals and no care for their job or the children.  I would hate my children to be even around them, let alone taught by them.

 

I would not want my children to attend these schools.  My kids would be mixing with spoilt brats, start speaking with an annoying high pitched American winy accent, get into trouble with smoking, drugs, bad behaviour, bullying.. all rampant in such schools.  Many of these schools also sneak in their Christian religion and prayers to brainwash the children.  

 

The local Thai schools are much nicer in my area.  Children are respectful, well mannered, well socialised, my children could speak Thai and English (not American English only).  I don't have to get up at 5 am to travel long distances stuck in traffic to get to the school.  The kids can walk to their school or its just a 10 minute drive from the house.  The children have more free time before and after school to play and be kids.

 

The international schools are just one other way to isolate your family form Thai society.. the country you are living in.. but won't integrate into.

 

I bet after picking the children up from their overpriced International school you then drive them to the overprices American supermarket to buy Farang food, then off too McDonalds.. maybe catch a farang Movie and the shopping mall.  Why some people live here is a mystery to me.   

 

 

 

 

You have no idea what you are talking about with regard to International Schools. 

 

Your last paragraph correct though, apart from McDonald's

[Chrisdoc]

As do foreigners on working visas in the uk, Australia etc.
I realise making thailand the villain is a passtime for many but all countries are tightening up their visa application process.

International students in Australia can work up to 20 hrs a week even if doing a simple Certificate course. Tourists under a certain age (I think 30) can easily get a permit to work in agriculture for 6 months. My thai niece goes to a local school and last year they had a farung teacher who stayed a month or so then left. Replaced by a thai teacher. After 6 months she knows 6 words of English- good morning, stand up,sit down. I think Thailand needs to re-assess their English language teaching system. I live in a small town close to a major centre and only 5 people I know seem to be able to talk English- 3 ex taxi drivers, an ex-hooker and a monk.

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