Queston about your two Land crossings a Year

[juice777]

I did a Land crossing last week from Pattaya and got 30 days it was my first one in so long and it's so much better than going to Laos to get a Visa.

 

Only 10 hours there and back instead of 3 days for a Visa run.

 

Slightly cheaper, for me anyway. I added up all the cost of a visa from Laos including extending it and divided it between 90 days and it came to 85THB a day.Then again for going to Cambodia and divided by 60 days is 75THB a day.

 

No paperwork if you use a visa run company.

 

1 less page in your passport saves you money again 100THB by my calculations.Not to mention you won't have to renew your passport so quick.

 

 

Cheap Jim Beam Honey my Favourite drink 600THB for a 1000Ml which is only a bit more expensive than Thai whisky when you consider that's 700Ml

 

So there are many benefits, in my opinion, the main one no overnight buses the savings are nice but not a big deal because it's not much money.

 

I know you are only allowed two per year Is it still per calendar year or is it two per 12 months?

 

Also, I plan to save the last one just in case anything goes wrong. So it looks like I will be going again on Dec the 20th so 30 days later that's the next year so what year does this count for 2018 or 2019?

 

Or is it a bad Ideal to have 30 days stamps in your passport and better to stick to normal visa to keep your passport clean?

 

Thanks

 

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[elviajero]

22 minutes ago, juice777 said:

I know you are only allowed two per year Is it still per calendar year or is it two per 12 months?

Calendar year 1st Jan - 31st Dec.

 

22 minutes ago, juice777 said:

Also, I plan to save the last one just in case anything goes wrong. So it looks like I will be going again on Dec the 20th so 30 days later that's the next year so what year does this count for 2018 or 2019?

2018. It's the year you enter that counts.

 

22 minutes ago, juice777 said:

Or is it a bad Ideal to have 30 days stamps in your passport and better to stick to normal visa to keep your passport clean?

It's best to use visa exempt entries as little as you can if you're living in the country as a tourist.

[juice777]

It's best to use visa exempt entries as little as you can if you're living in the country as a tourist.

"It's best to use visa exempt entries as little as you can if you're living in the country as a tourist"

Is that Because you might be Refused a Visa at an Embassy even if you stick to two per year?

I was wondering this myself. As things are at the moment I reckon Savannakhet will still be ok if you have the right documents. Also, I am in the process of getting a new passport so this will might help.

The IO wrote 1 next to my stamp after checking every page in my passport. This confused me because if they scan it they can see all my entries so why check everpage in the Acutal passport if they can see it on there screen.

I wonder this is so they can see at an Embassy how many you have had in total not just in your current passport.



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[elviajero]

3 minutes ago, juice777 said:

Is that Because you might be Refused a Visa at an Embassy even if you stick to two per year?

The number of visa exempt entries shouldn't affect you getting a visa from an Embassy. They don't, as a rule, take them in to account. They only seem bothered by the number of previous visas they count in your passport.

 

8 minutes ago, juice777 said:

As things are at the moment I reckon Savannakhet will still be ok if you have the right documents

Yes.

 

9 minutes ago, juice777 said:

I wonder this is so they can see at an Embassy how many you have had in total not just in your current passport.

More likely to make it easier for the next border IO to see your visa exempt count.

[juice777]

More likely to make it easier for the next border IO to see your visa exempt count.

" The number of visa exempt entries shouldn't affect you getting a visa from an Embassy. They don't, as a rule, take them into account. They only seem bothered by the number of previous visas they count in your passport"

So what's the problem with using your visa exempts at the end of the year then as things stand as they are at the moment?

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[elviajero]

2 minutes ago, juice777 said:

So what's the problem with using your visa exempts at the end of the year then as things stand as they are at the moment?

It is a limit not an entitlement.

 

You could sail through without a problem, but if you’ve spent most of the year in the country as a tourist you could come under scrutiny, and possibly be denied even though you’ve only one previous exempt entry during the year.

[juice777]

It is a limit not an entitlement.
 
You could sail through without a problem, but if you’ve spent most of the year in the country as a tourist you could come under scrutiny, and possibly be denied even though you’ve only one previous exempt entry during the year.

ok good point

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[BritTim]

54 minutes ago, juice777 said:

"It's best to use visa exempt entries as little as you can if you're living in the country as a tourist"

Is that Because you might be Refused a Visa at an Embassy even if you stick to two per year?

I was wondering this myself. As things are at the moment I reckon Savannakhet will still be ok if you have the right documents. Also, I am in the process of getting a new passport so this will might help.

The IO wrote 1 next to my stamp after checking every page in my passport. This confused me because if they scan it they can see all my entries so why check everpage in the Acutal passport if they can see it on there screen.

I wonder this is so they can see at an Embassy how many you have had in total not just in your current passport.

 

The main reason I see is not to do with getting visas, it is what might happen when you are forced in the future to enter visa exempt (especially at an airport) after both using visa exempt entries liberally, and having spent a lot of time in Thailand on tourist entries. You do not want to fit the profile of "someone using visa exempt entries to spend extended periods in Thailand". If you do, an official may well decide to deny you entry (and pursuant to a Ministerial Order in mid 2014 have every right to do so). If you only use visa exempt entries very rarely, even having been a long time in Thailand as a tourist, the chances are much better that the official will not target you.

[juice777]

Ok, I will won't use them then unless I have to it was so much better to be back home after 10 hours with a bottle Of Jim Beam Honey.

Thanks for the Advice I will do the sensible thing and not take any chances.

The main reason I see is not to do with getting visas, it is what might happen when you are forced in the future to enter visa exempt (especially at an airport) after both using visa exempt entries liberally, and having spent a lot of time in Thailand on tourist entries. You do not want to fit the profile of "someone using visa exempt entries to spend extended periods in Thailand". If you do, an official may well decide to deny you entry (and pursuant to a Ministerial Order in mid 2014 have every right to do so). If you only use visa exempt entries very rarely, even having been a long time in Thailand as a tourist, the chances are much better that the official will not target you.

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[gregk0543]

Ok I live mostly in Myanmar where I have a multiple entry visa. I went to Myawaddy Mae sot land border to re-register a  Myanmar registered motorcycle. Because of the way things worked out I had to cross to Mae Sot on a Saturday. Come back on Monday to sort out the registration during business hours and then cross back into Thailand for the water festival and then after that go back to Myanmar and ride to Yangon.  So I effectively did 2 land entries in a few days. Over a 10 day period.

 

Ok so I have used up my 2 crossings....but..... I need to do the same thing again. Have to go to Myawaddy cross to Mae sot Thailand come back to Myawaddy for a pagoda consecration 2 or 3 days later and then back to Mae Sot Thailand for a couple of nights then back to Myawaddy and onto Yangon. So I need to do another 2 land entries in a few days total of 5 days.

 

So whats my chances of getting stopped on entry into Thailand?  Anyone been stopped. I dont stay in Thailand for more than 7 days but this is pushing the literalness of the rules.  If they refuse me entry I will just stay in Myawaddy for the duration. 

 

Anyone got experience of being stopped who is doing short trips like this. Whatever happens I will let you know here. But my example shows a variant which  is not really the reason for the rule but a consequence if they get literal.

 

And if I get a visa and do it I am still unable to get two trips on 7 days... So I am going to have to rely on the wisdom and mood of the border immigration officer.

 

[jackdd]

8 hours ago, gregk0543 said:

Ok I live mostly in Myanmar where I have a multiple entry visa. I went to Myawaddy Mae sot land border to re-register a  Myanmar registered motorcycle. Because of the way things worked out I had to cross to Mae Sot on a Saturday. Come back on Monday to sort out the registration during business hours and then cross back into Thailand for the water festival and then after that go back to Myanmar and ride to Yangon.  So I effectively did 2 land entries in a few days. Over a 10 day period.

 

Ok so I have used up my 2 crossings....but..... I need to do the same thing again. Have to go to Myawaddy cross to Mae sot Thailand come back to Myawaddy for a pagoda consecration 2 or 3 days later and then back to Mae Sot Thailand for a couple of nights then back to Myawaddy and onto Yangon. So I need to do another 2 land entries in a few days total of 5 days.

 

So whats my chances of getting stopped on entry into Thailand?  Anyone been stopped. I dont stay in Thailand for more than 7 days but this is pushing the literalness of the rules.  If they refuse me entry I will just stay in Myawaddy for the duration. 

 

Anyone got experience of being stopped who is doing short trips like this. Whatever happens I will let you know here. But my example shows a variant which  is not really the reason for the rule but a consequence if they get literal.

 

And if I get a visa and do it I am still unable to get two trips on 7 days... So I am going to have to rely on the wisdom and mood of the border immigration officer.

 

The chance that you get more than 2 visa exempts in a year at land borders is close to zero, so expect to be denied if you do it like this. You could get a tourist visa and get a re entry permit, then you can enter two times with it.

[BritTim]

8 hours ago, gregk0543 said:

So whats my chances of getting stopped on entry into Thailand?

About 99%. Ideally, arrange a multiple entry tourist visa for Thailand. Perhaps, the embassy in Yangon would consider giving you one if you explain the situation. Vientiane has agreed to help foreign residents of Laos in a similar situation. The only alternative would be to cross illegally (which is easy to do at Myawaddy, but which I would strenuously advise against).

[BritTim]

7 minutes ago, jackdd said:

The chance that you get more than 2 visa exempts in a year at land borders is close to zero, so expect to be denied if you do it like this. You could get a tourist visa and get a re entry permit, then you can enter two times with it.

This would usually be a good option, but it seems he wants to cross during the weekend, and it could be very difficult to get a re-entry permit with immigration offices closed.

[gregk0543]

Ok glad to report that I got my third visa exempt visa overlanding from Myawaddy to Mae Sot. Was not difficult. The immigration officer asked me where I was going in Thailand and I said just to Mae Sot and only here for 7 days at most. He asked me if I worked in Myanmar and I said no. My wife is burmese and I am retired there. The magic bang of the stamp and I am relieved.

 

I think the only stress was knowing that I might be refused. If I didnt know I would never have stressed about it.  

 

So I am going to report it is a 99% certainty you will get it in my case.

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, gregk0543 said:

Ok glad to report that I got my third visa exempt visa overlanding from Myawaddy to Mae Sot. Was not difficult.

Thank you for your surprising and informative feedback.

[gregk0543]

On 5/9/2018 at 10:54 PM, BritTim said:

Thank you for your surprising and informative feedback.

Yes and to add the next segment to the story. We went to the Pagoda consecration this morning in Myawaddy. The organisers had got some special permission so we were able to take a hired bus from Mae Sot to Myawaddy and back without being stamped in or out and went straight across the bridge both ways. Nice touch. So that worked out pretty easy. So immigration is allowed individual discretion in the application of the laws according to the situation.

[juice777]

So has there been any reports of people being refused a 3rd Stamp anywhere yet and stuck somewhere?

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[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, juice777 said:

So has there been any reports of people being refused a 3rd Stamp anywhere yet and stuck somewhere?

Yes there have been reports of people denied entry. Also being denied departure from the country or being told they could not come back without a visa.

[juice777]

Yes there have been reports of people denied entry. Also being denied departure from the country or being told they could not come back without a visa.

Denied departure is that even legal?

As long as they haven't broken any laws

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[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, juice777 said:

Denied departure is that even legal?

There have been many turned away and have been told fly out of the country. That has even happened before the 2 entry rule.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, juice777 said:

Denied departure is that even legal?

If you don’t have the right to enter the neighbouring country you can be denied leaving the one you’re in.

 

Also Thai immigration wiill not let someone leave Thailand that is planning to do a 3rd visa exempt immediate re-entry.

[jackdd]

1 minute ago, elviajero said:

Also Thai immigration wiill not let someone leave Thailand that is planning to do a 3rd visa exempt immediate re-entry.

I did this three weeks ago, was no problem

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, jackdd said:

I did this three weeks ago, was no problem

So are you recommending everyone ignores the 2 land border limit?

 

As a general rule Thai immigration will stop someone exiting that will be refused an immediate re-entry. You were lucky or posting BS. 

[jackdd]

21 minutes ago, elviajero said:

So are you recommending everyone ignores the 2 land border limit?

 

As a general rule Thai immigration will stop someone exiting that will be refused an immediate re-entry. You were lucky or posting BS. 

Before you just said "3rd visa exempt". I did have one by air and then two by land in a row.

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, jackdd said:

Before you just said "3rd visa exempt". I did have one by air and then two by land in a row.

The topic is about “two land crossings a year”.

[gregk0543]

Yes so lets look at the intention of the rule to stop people living in Thailand for long periods with visa exempt entries. 

 

My example doesnt qualify for that intended end. But it ticks boxes of land crossing more than 2 times in a calendar year. It shows it is not a mandatory regulation but the officers have discretion. You are flagged for their discretion.

 

People living a month or two in Thailand and then about to leave to cross to Myawaddy and then return are in a different group to me. The Thai immigration officer is going to warn you that if you check out of Thailand you wont be given visa exempt next time and you will have to go all the way to Yangon to get a visa.  

 

We will see if they say anything to me when I check out in a couple of days to go back to Myanmar. I already have a multiple entry visa for Myanmar. 

 

Also imagine the Single entry Tourist to Myanmar who comes back to Thailand from there. Myanmar officials don't give a toss if you can or can not enter Thailand. You will be stamped out. When you get to Thai side of the bridge and have already done two other land crossings (say I went to Laos and Cambodia or came from Malaysia overland earlier) what can they do?  If they refuse you entry you cant go back to Myanmar you are stuck on the bridge. 

 

I average about 6 visa exempt entries to Thailand a year (mostly fly in and out). Each one is not more than 7 days. I live in Myanmar. Just this time I have needed to do a few overland in quick succession.

 

In looking that the visa requirements for Laos I could see they could turn you back because you can re-enter Laos on a visa on arrival. So each countries borders is going to have a different operational system in practise as far as I can see. (Some earlier posts were concerning expats living in Laos)

 

 

 

 

[BritTim]

7 hours ago, gregk0543 said:

The Thai immigration officer is going to warn you that if you check out of Thailand you wont be given visa exempt next time and you will have to go all the way to Yangon to get a visa.

In the situation you describe, I am pretty sure Thai immigration would not allow you to leave unless you had a valid Myanmar visa applied for in advance (an eVisa would be acceptable). A border pass in Myanmar does not allow onward travel to Yangon, and Thai immigration would not cooperate in stranding you in Myawaddy.