Not doing 90day report, departing <96th day [solved]

[Number 6]

Some months ago I had asked the board in regard to doing a 90 day report (marriage in my case), - if I departed prior to the 97th day, would I incur overstay.

 

There was no definitive answer and I was requested by forum member to ask when I did my report and to post a follow up here.

 

I asked both at CW and Suvarnabhumi and the answers were unanimous. I repeated my question, with the same replies.

 

There would be no overstay leaving before on or before the 96th day (11:59pm).

 

Based on this, I personally will chance it if caught in a similar situation again yet as we all know, the law is arbitrary and capricious. Good luck with it.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

There would be no overstay leaving before on or before the 96th day (11:59pm).

Not doing a 90 day report or being late is not an overstay. A overstay is staying longer than your permit to stay in the country.

[Tanoshi]

You haven't overstayed in this situation because you have permission to stay for 1 year.

You are however guilty of not reporting after 90 consecutive days in the Country.

 

The airports aren't bothered about a late report, only if you have overstayed your permission to stay, and CW were correct to state your not in violation of 'overstaying'.

It's when you return and next do a 90 day report. If the office pick up on the fact that you didn't report within the timescale they are quite within their rights to fine you for 'late reporting'.

 

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the
following :
5. If the alien stays in the Kingdom longer than ninety days, such alien must notify the
competent official at the Immigration Division , in writing , concerning his place of stay , as soon as
possible upon expiration of ninety days. The alien is required to do so every ninety days. Where there is
an Immigration Office , the alien may notify a competent Immigration Official of that office.

 

Section 76 : Any alien, alien, who fails to comply with the provisions of Section 37(2),(3),(4)or(5) shall be
punished with a fine not exceeding 5,000 Baht and with and additional fine not exceeding 200 Baht for
each day which passes until the law is complied with.

 

That's the law, but having said that you can report up to 7 days after the due report date.

Leaving on the 6th day after the report date puts you on the limit, so your probably ok, but it's how an IO might interpret that.

 

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, Number 6 said:

I asked both at CW and Suvarnabhumi and the answers were unanimous. I repeated my question, with the same replies.

 

There would be no overstay leaving before on or before the 96th day (11:59pm).

Thanks for the follow up. Unfortunately you've used the wrong terminology.

 

I think you are saying that immigration have confirmed that there is no late reporting penalty if leaving the country within 97 days without reporting?

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

You are however guilty of not reporting after 90 consecutive days in the Country.

They are not guilty of anything. A report is not late, and not in breach of the law, until day 97.

 

5 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

It's when you return and next do a 90 day report. If the office pick up on the fact that you didn't report within the timescale they are quite within their rights to fine you for 'late reporting'.

No they are not. The law says you have to report "as soon as possible" after the 90th day. Immigration have limited that "as soon as possible" to be within 7 days after the 90th day. A report isn't late until day 97+ so no fine can never be applied, on exit or retrospectively, to someone leaving the country within 97 days.

 

This is yet another first hand, albeit badly worded, report confirming that you do not need to report if leaving within 97 days.

 

The sole purpose of a 90 day report is to update immigration with your address for the next 90 day period. If you are leaving with 97 days they aren't bothered about your address because you are leaving.

[Number 6]

Indeed, I should have stated reporting late and not overstay as has been pointed out 2x above.

 

I'd actually asked the cop at the overstay desk.

 

That's all I have to say on the matter. Quibble on TV! Apologies for the information.

[brewsterbudgen]

No they are not. The law says you have to report "as soon as possible" after the 90th day. Immigration have limited that "as soon as possible" to be within 7 days after the 90th day. A report isn't late until day 97+ so no fine can never be applied, on exit or retrospectively, to someone leaving the country within 97 days.
 
This is yet another first hand, albeit badly worded, report confirming that you do not need to report if leaving within 97 days.
 
The sole purpose of a 90 day report is to update immigration with your address for the next 90 day period. If you are leaving with 97 days they aren't bothered about your address because you are leaving.

If that were true they should really rename it a "97 day report"!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Swimman]

4 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

If that were true they should really rename it a "97 day report"!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I do not understand why people fail to understand there is a large window of time during which the report can be made --- If your suggestion was taken up the same crowd would still be whining.

[elviajero]

4 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

If that were true they should really rename it a "97 day report"!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

What it’s called isn’t important. We are not reporting that we have stayed 90 days. Having stayed 90 days we’re obliged to report our address if staying longer than 90 days and have to make the report within 97 days. If you leave within 97 days the need to make the report ends.

[lkv]

Leaving after 97 days does not mean you do not have to do a 90 day report. Next time when you apply for an extension Immigration will pick up on the fact that you have spent 97 consecutive days without reporting and you will incur a fine of 2,000 baht.

 

Tod from the ThaiVisa Advice group of Facebook explains it better.

 

 

 

[elviajero]

17 minutes ago, lkv said:

Leaving after 97 days does not mean you do not have to do a 90 day report. Next time when you apply for an extension Immigration will pick up on the fact that you have spent 97

No one is suggesting otherwise. The debate is about leaving within 97 days.

 

18 minutes ago, lkv said:

Tod from the ThaiVisa Advice group of Facebook explains it better.

No he doesn’t. It’s almost completely factually wrong!

[lkv]

6 minutes ago, elviajero said:

No one is suggesting otherwise. The debate is about leaving within 97 days.

 

No he doesn’t. It’s almost completely factually wrong!

 

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

If you leave within 97 days the need to make the report ends.

That's what you're suggesting. That you can go 97 days without a 90 day report.

 

Yeah maybe he is wrong, we are all human, as far as I am concerned the value of his advice is similar to ubonjoe's here, he is that group's admin.

[phuketrichard]

8 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Not doing a 90 day report or being late is not an overstay. A overstay is staying longer than your permit to stay in the country.

Quote

 

Some months ago I had asked the board in regard to doing a 90 day report (marriage in my case), - if I departed prior to the 97th day, would I incur overstay.

 

There was no definitive answer and I was requested by forum member to ask when I did my report and to post a follow up here.

 

I asked both at CW and Suvarnabhumi and the answers were unanimous. I repeated my question, with the same replies.

 

There would be no overstay leaving before on or before the 96th day (11:59pm).

 

 

always believed the 90 day report needs be done, ( can be done 2 weeks in advance or 7 days after)  BUT>>>if u leave on the 95 ,96, 97 and u did not do your 90 day report ur liable to be fined on the next time immigration access's ur file.

 

I will  await his NEXT 90 day report post  :-)

[brewsterbudgen]

That's what you're suggesting. That you can go 97 days without a 90 day report.
 
Yeah maybe he is wrong, we are all human, as far as I am concerned the value of his advice is similar to ubonjoe's here, he is that group's admin.

Tod knows his stuff!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, lkv said:

6 hours ago, elviajero said:

If you leave within 97 days the need to make the report ends.

That's what you're suggesting. That you can go 97 days without a 90 day report.

I am saying that if you leave within 97 days you don't need to report. And only if you stay longer than 96 days can you be fined for staying longer than 90 days without reporting. Thats, what the law and rules say.

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, lkv said:

6 hours ago, elviajero said:

If you leave within 97 days the need to make the report ends.

That's what you're suggesting. That you can go 97 days without a 90 day report.

I am saying that if you leave within 97 days you don't need to report. And only if you stay longer than 96 days can you be fined for staying longer than 90 days without reporting. That's fact based on the law and immigration rules.

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Tod knows his stuff!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Clearly not when it comes to 90 day reporting.

 

[partington]

6 hours ago, elviajero said:

I am saying that if you leave within 97 days you don't need to report. And only if you stay longer than 96 days can you be fined for staying longer than 90 days without reporting. That's fact based on the law and immigration rules.

It's not, it's based on your misunderstanding of being given a seven day period to fulfil the obligation you have already incurred.

 

Everyone staying 90 days consecutively incurs a legal obligation to do a report. They are given a 7 day period to do it in. If they leave in that seven day period they have simply failed to do what the law says they have to do.

 

You keep repeating your misinterpretation, but that does not make it correct.

[pearciderman]

8 hours ago, elviajero said:

Clearly not when it comes to 90 day reporting.

 

 

Oh yes he does ! And yet again you are giving dodgy incorrect advice. You keep mentioning the 90 day report and reporting, yet failing to mention that if you leave on day 95, you have not made a report and are liable to be fined.

 

Get this into your head - THE GRACE PERIOD IS FOR PEOPLE WHO REPORT, NOT FOR THOSE WHO DON'T.

[ubonjoe]

I will stand by what I have written many times before. The 7 days after the report date to is to do the report to immigration.  Leaving the country is not equal to doing a report since you have already stayed longer than 90 days in the country.

Some excerpts from the immigration website that support my belief I am correct. (https://www.immigration.go.th/content/sv_90day).

" 4. The notification must be made within 15 days before or after 7 days the period of 90 days expires."

"If a foreigner staying in the kingdom over 90 days without notifying the Immigration Bureau or notifying the Immigration Bureau later than the set period, a fine of 2,000.- Baht will be collected."

 

[Tanoshi]

8 hours ago, elviajero said:

I am saying that if you leave within 97 days you don't need to report. And only if you stay longer than 96 days can you be fined for staying longer than 90 days without reporting. That's fact based on the law and immigration rules.

The law states;

5. If the alien stays in the Kingdom longer than ninety days, such alien must notify the
competent official at the Immigration Division , in writing , concerning his place of stay , as soon as
possible upon expiration of ninety days. The alien is required to do so every ninety days.

 

Immigration allow a window of up to 15 days before and up to 7 days after your actual report date to file.t

Where in the rules does it state if you leave the Country within 97 days your exempt reporting. 

 

As usual it comes down to our interpretation of an English translation and the IO's interpretation who has the book!

A very good friend recently arrived back from a trip abroad and went to file a TM30.

He left after previously spending 94 consecutive days in Thailand. He thought as you do.

An eager and enthusiastic IO spotted he never made a report before departing Thailand, an argument ensued.

Bottom line, the IO stated he had a window of opportunity of 18 days to file his report before leaving.

It was by his own choice he decided not to.

 

He refused to accept or file the new TM30 report until the fine was paid.

 

 

 

 

[puchooay]

The problem with Tod Daniels is that he assumes that all immigration offices and officers interpret the rules the same way. 

 

In fact he was on a local forum telling the members that they were spineless for not going to immigration and arguing and insisting that the IO was incorrect. 

 

That's not a good idea now, is it? 

 

 

[pearciderman]

4 minutes ago, puchooay said:

The problem with Tod Daniels is that he assumes that all immigration offices and officers interpret the rules the same way. 

 

No he does not, that is why he very often asks which office people will be using, so that he can give the correct advice relevant to that office.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, pearciderman said:

Get this into your head - THE GRACE PERIOD IS FOR PEOPLE WHO REPORT, NOT FOR THOSE WHO DON'T.

At last!

 

The first ever concise, accurate and 100% correct interpretation of the 90-day reporting 'grace' criteria.

 

Pin this!

 

And buy pearciderman a beer.

 

...or a pear cider.

[puchooay]

52 minutes ago, pearciderman said:

 

No he does not, that is why he very often asks which office people will be using, so that he can give the correct advice relevant to that office.

I missed the word "should". I apologise but, if you wish to quote why don't you quote the whole post and comment on all points?

[Suradit69]

On 4/28/2018 at 9:08 AM, Number 6 said:

There would be no overstay leaving before on or before the 96th day (11:59pm).

There was never a question about it being an overstay. An overstay is when you remain in the country after your permission to stay has ended. Nothing to do with 90 day reports.

[elviajero]

6 hours ago, pearciderman said:

14 hours ago, elviajero said:

Clearly not when it comes to 90 day reporting.

Oh yes he does !

Here is one very simple example that he doesn't. 

He says, "There are three ways you can do a 90 day report".

 

That is wrong because there are four.

 

6 hours ago, pearciderman said:

And yet again you are giving dodgy incorrect advice. You keep mentioning the 90 day report and reporting, yet failing to mention that if you leave on day 95, you have not made a report and are liable to be fined.

Would you like a list of all the "dodgy incorrect advice" you have posted that has been corrected by UJ, myself and others!

 

Wrong. The law only allows for someone to be fined if they report later than the "set period". The OP and other first hand reports

 

6 hours ago, pearciderman said:

Get this into your head - THE GRACE PERIOD IS FOR PEOPLE WHO REPORT, NOT FOR THOSE WHO DON'T.

Wrong. There is no "grace period". There is a "set period" by which anyone staying in the country should report their address for the next period. A report is not late unless made after the "set period" to report. No "grace" is given or required.

 

 

[elviajero]

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I will stand by what I have written many times before. The 7 days after the report date to is to do the report to immigration.  Leaving the country is not equal to doing a report since you have already stayed longer than 90 days in the country.

I don't disagree, and I'm not claiming it's the equivalent of a report. I am advising, based on conversations with senior immigration officers over several years, that immigration do not expect or require anyone leaving within 97 days to report. The OP is backing that up as are several other first hand reports from members who have asked immigration directly.

 

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

" 4. The notification must be made within 15 days before or after 7 days the period of 90 days expires."

"If a foreigner staying in the kingdom over 90 days without notifying the Immigration Bureau or notifying the Immigration Bureau later than the set period, a fine of 2,000.- Baht will be collected."

That is badly written, misleading, and wrong.

"If a foreigner staying in the kingdom over 90 days without notifying the Immigration Bureau ... a fine of 2,000.- Baht will be collected."

 

**Think about it for a minute.** If you were to take that statement literally it would mean that if someone hasn't reported by 00:01 on day 91 they will be fined 2,000 baht. That would be ludicrous when, by law, the obligation to report only began 59 seconds before. I know you know that immigration do not and cannot fine someone reporting on day 92, so why do you believe otherwise based on a statement that is clearly flawed.

 

Based on the statement you quote from the immigration website, anyone reporting after midnight on day 90 can be fined!

 

The second part of the quoted statement says;

"If a foreigner staying in the kingdom over 90 days ... notifying the Immigration Bureau later than the set period, a fine of 2,000.- Baht will be collected."

 

That is confirming, what we all know, that immigration can/do fine anyone that reports after the "set period".

 

The official english translation of the immigration act says we must report our address "as soon as possible" after the 90th day. I would translate (โดยไม่ชักช้า - doy mi chak-chaa) as 'report without delay', but AS SOON AS POSSIBLE is contextually correct. Because 'asap' isn't time specific immigration, by law, can set a period by which the report must be made, which they have set to be within 7 days.

 

As I have made clear to you before, the purpose of the '90 day report' is to report your address for the next 90 day period because you are staying in the country. When you understand/accept the purpose of the report you might be able to understand why immigration don't require us to report if leaving within 97 days. There is a misconception on this forum that we report because we have stayed 90 days. That is wrong. We are reporting/reconfirming our address because we are staying in the country.

 

Based on immigration law they cannot fine someone for reporting late unless they stay in the country and report after the 'set period'. If you leave within the 'set period' it is impossible to stay longer than the 'set period', therefore, you can never lawfully be fined for reporting late. It's as simple as that. 

 

Nowhere does it say that someone leaving without reporting within the 'set period' can be fined. Nowhere! However, it is clear that if you've stayed longer than 97 days without reporting that a fine is due, and it would be lawful for immigration to collect that fine at anytime in the future.

 

I am passing on what I have been told by several immigration officers at two different offices over several years. I am not, like you appear to be doing, basing an opinion on a flawed statement on an immigration website. You also have corroborating reports from the OP of this thread and members in other. It's a shame you continue to ignore first hand reports.

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, elviajero said:

That is badly written, misleading, and wrong.

"If a foreigner staying in the kingdom over 90 days without notifying the Immigration Bureau ... a fine of 2,000.- Baht will be collected."

Did you intentionally leave out this part that says "or notifying the Immigration Bureau later than the set period". That means the 7 days after.

I don't care about your misinterpretation or twisting of what it says in the immigration act. It is still are report of staying over 90 days in the country. That is the primary reason for doing the report.

[Eaglekott]

Screen shots from Immigration website. You can report every 97th day. I usually report to early by mail. But if I was leaving the country like the OP on day 96-97 I would not bother to report. In absolutely worst case there is a 2,000 Baht fine.