Questions About Qualifications

[ragamuffin]

Non-native (German), will be holding a degree in ELT and Social Studies for grammar school teachers to-be (University of Munich, Germany), have already worked as a volunteer in Thailand teaching English, several internships at German schools, one year abroad at Warwick Uni (England) and part-time job at BMW World's Junior Campus working with children (German/English), plus the regular tutoring jobs next to uni (English lessons). Female and do speak/understand Thai neetnoy :-).

Chances for me job- and paywise?

[Scott]

Depending on where you will be in Thailand, you have a good chance of finding work. Bilingual programs might employ you in social studies/or English. Your starting salary with a degree should be in the 30-35K range, even if you aren't a native speaker. Rural areas pay less 20K++.

[pbert]

Great thread!

I didn't finish my degree and have worked for the past 6 years, should be finished a Graduate Certificate of Management by the end of this year and organising to move to Chiang Mai early next year. I plan on studying Thai at CM Uni for a year and then a TEFL. Any comment on my chances of securing a teaching job in the CM area? And will the certificate count for anything in the absence of a degree?

Thanks heaps and now I'm back to spending another hour reading the remainder of the thread.

[Scott]

Hopefully some CM residents will come along and help you with your question. As noted, however, it is getting increasingly difficult without a Bachelor's Degree. You might end up out in a rural area.

Best of luck.

[Firelily]

It may be lack of connections, but my school (in Chiang Mai) has not been able to secure work permits for teachers who only have graduate diplomas or similar but no bachelor's, despite trying several times for several years. They seem to be strict and consistent. Other schools may be more successful, I have no idea if it is possible to go through the system somehow.

[aussiebebe]

It may be lack of connections, but my school (in Chiang Mai) has not been able to secure work permits for teachers who only have graduate diplomas or similar but no bachelor's, despite trying several times for several years. They seem to be strict and consistent. Other schools may be more successful, I have no idea if it is possible to go through the system somehow.

Although having experienced employees may cause differences between schools, work permits are issued by the Department of Employment of the Ministry of Labor and Social Welfare. Gotta have a degree if you want a work permit to teach, it would seem.

Although you won't be legal, many schools will hire teachers, pay cash, and let the teachers sort their own visas ie. do regular 'visa runs' to the borders. Quite frankly no-one checks and while you won't get a WP, visa extension, tax returns, teacher license - it's no big deal - why pay tax? We're foreigners and derive no benefit from it apart from subsidised fuel.

[pbert]

Thanks for your replies aussiebebe and firelily. That actually sounds bad As I was going to use teaching as my backup plan if I required more income in a year or so but it sounds like obtaining a job wouldn't be possible. I would want to work legally, I know that some don't however I don't like the idea of looking over my shoulder constantly.

If anyone has experienced otherwise recently it would be great for my morale to hear from you! I will be in CM in a couple of months so I will try to ask when enquiring about the TEFL course. Not much point doing the course if I won’t be able to work...

Cheers

[aussiebebe]

Thanks for your replies aussiebebe and firelily. That actually sounds bad As I was going to use teaching as my backup plan if I required more income in a year or so but it sounds like obtaining a job wouldn't be possible. I would want to work legally, I know that some don't however I don't like the idea of looking over my shoulder constantly.

If anyone has experienced otherwise recently it would be great for my morale to hear from you! I will be in CM in a couple of months so I will try to ask when enquiring about the TEFL course. Not much point doing the course if I won't be able to work...

Cheers

You can gleen lots of free advice regarding visas and staying in Thailand by writing to lawyers based in Chiang Mai, just use a search engine. A quick email and they'll happily answer your questions and give you plenty of options.

I can't give you legal advice, but I think you're blowing the whole thing out of all proportion. Yes, it's illegal to work in Thailand and avoid paying tax as sure as it's illegal to engage in prostitution. If you were ever arrested and charged for either of those things, you'd surely be the first. Don't over-estimate the tenacity of the Thai Revenue Department, it ain't the IRS. Thai police aren't going to bother or hassle you, they get paid off and have to keep us cash cows alive and happy, or face an extended assignment in the deep-South probably.

You can find work without much fuss, it's about being in the right place at the right time. It's not a question of having to look over your shoulder, schools can accomodate employees without paperwork a variety of ways. Certainly some teachers could have been temporarily imprisoned or even deported (never heard of this) for overstaying their visa or extension of stay, but the vast majority of teacher's I've met who've overstayed have paid a fine (maximum THB20,000baht). It's not the end of the world.

[Pakeha]

A questions for the wise and experienced souls out there!

Background:

I have a Bachelor of Arts (philosophy major / ethics minor), a Diploma in Management and a Certificate in TESOL (Trinity College, London) all completed in NZ. I am currently doing a B.A. honours degree in philosophy in NZ. Next year I want to do my Masters (M.A. in philosophy) but I am also conscious of my employment prospects in Thailand in 2012.

I have professional corporate work experience in a consulting and management capacity. However I only have very limited teaching experience. I am 31 years old. I can speak beginner / intermediate level thai.

Questions:

Will this M.A. be beneficial to my employment prospects?

What will my employment prospects be like?

What could I expect to earn? Ideally I want to live in / near Trang but money does talk!

I'd like to know what my prospects are in terms of jobs and earning potential. Fire away please.

[Phatcharanan]

You will undoubtedly find work as an English teacher but I seriously doubt that an MA in Philosophy would be of any benefit within Thailand.

It is almost certainly not going to improve your salary range. Sorry if that sounds harsh. Just a personal opinion of course.

[Pakeha]

You will undoubtedly find work as an English teacher but I seriously doubt that an MA in Philosophy would be of any benefit within Thailand.

It is almost certainly not going to improve your salary range. Sorry if that sounds harsh. Just a personal opinion of course.

Thanks. No need to apologise. I expected as much. In terms of alternative qualifications to the M.A. what would be a better choice to increase my chances of securing good jobs / higher remuneration?

Also, would teaching part-time, 10 hours a week or so, for a year increase my employment prospects when I get to Thailand or would it really make bugger all difference? The more I read on Thaivisa the more it looks like jobs are pretty limited in the south and pay scales are pretty similar across the board. Is this the case? Would my qualifications be considered at the better end or just same same?

Questions, questions.

[Scott]

Your qualification should be more than sufficient to get you work. A Masters never hurts and a lot of employers will like that, but it won't necessarily translate to more money. It may get you more interviews and more interest and therefore give you a better chance at getting a good salary and/or benefits, but it will most likely be in the normal salary range. Experience, even if it is limited, will count for a lot.

Where I work a Bachelor's with experience is more likely to get you employed than a Masters with no experience.

Getting over the regular salary hump occurs when your degree and qualifications are in education. Also remember there are exceptions and if you happen to be in the right place at the right time you may get lucky.

Best of luck.

[Pakeha]

Would a Graduate Diploma in Education / Teaching / TESSOL be more appealing to potential employers than an M.A.?

Also, could you tell me, what is the best job I could hope for and what is the best type of institute to work in?.

[Scott]

A degree in Education get's you a bona fide Teacher's License and that means no waivers. It makes you eligible for a lot of schools such as the international ones. Recruitment for the real international schools will be done in the home country, but the 2nd tier would be interested in you.

Without a Bachelor's there are few doors open to you, with a Bachelor's there are a lot of doors open to you; with an education degree most doors are open to you.

As far as salary, I will let other posters give you a better idea of what you might earn.

[Pakeha]

Thanks Scott. As far as I can tell I could do a Bachelor of Arts (Honours) in Education if I wanted to. However because I will already have an Honours degree at the end of this year that seems pointless which is why I asked about the Graduate Diploma.

Or are you saying I would need to start back doing a Bachelor of Education?

Basically I have all of next year to get whatever qualification will serve me best. Here's the options I am looking at if it helps / you are interested: http://www.education.auckland.ac.nz/uoa/home/for/future-postgraduates/fp-study-options/pg-programmes-and-courses

Cheers.

[Scott]

I am not the best person to answer your specific questions, however, as a very general rule of thumb, if the qualification that you seek leads to being able to be a certified teacher in your home country, then it will (most likely) be recognized here. Australian degrees are pretty well recognized here in Thailand as a lot of Thai students attend school in Australia.

Perhaps some posters with more personal experience can shed a more comprehensive light on your question.

[Pakeha]

Thanks Scott. Does anyone else have anything they can add?

Cheers.

[jayinoz]

Thanks Scott. Does anyone else have anything they can add?

Cheers.

Note the following on Average examples of payment. There is a huge salary difference if you gain entry to a top International school. Yet I hear they can be hard to come by and you need to be in the know PLUS have Masters of Educations, years of experience, etc.

Government High School or Uni 25000bt - 35000bt

Private School 25000bt - 45000bt

International School 55,000bt - 125,000bt

Go 4 gold if you have the above and gain 6 figures pm.

Yet I known guys with BA Ed and they stuck on 20-25000bt in government schools.

I guess some are not in it simply for the money, otherwise you would not be a teacher in Thailand at all. $1000US pm is the same as an Aussie sitting on their butt pretending to look for work. WHilst having free medical and rent paid for, etc- yes it is a joke. Thus the huge taxes Aussies pay. I am sure similar in UK, etc.

No wonder so many expats seem to be here with supposed sore backs or depressive illnesses being paid by their governments.. Getting more than many teachers working their butt off in Thailand.

[Captain Haddock]

Does a teacher for a language centre need a teacher's license? I think I remember hearing a few years ago that this wasn't necessary for universities - only a work permit and correct visa. If you worked at a govt or private young learners (6-18) school, you needed a TL, but at a language centre that teaches young learners and adults? And is the Culture course etc all needed for the university and lang. centre? Thanks.

[Scott]

I believe the Language Centers are under the informal education sector, but I am not sure if a TL is required. I think not.

Perhaps some posters with experience in this area will come along and answer.

[Mario2008]

Required by who? Two years ago a TL was only required by immigration for government schools, not being a university. Didn't hear that changed.

[Pakeha]

Thanks jayinoz. Those salary guides are very helpful.

The Teachers License thing is confusing?! I still don't understand if I really do have to have one or not. I can't imagine all the non B.Ed teachers going through the drama and expense. If I wanted a job in a government school would I have to get one? But for a University - No?

[Scott]

I am going to post my understanding of the TL, I am not positive of the rules are or, more importantly, how they are implemented.

If you work for a school that is licensed, approved or operated under the Ministry of Education or the Basic Education Office (correct name?) and you teach prathom or mathyom, you need a Teacher's License. I don't know if KG level need to have one. Where I work, they all do, including KG because our school is not exclusively KG.

Once you have a non-immigrant B visa, the school should apply for a TL or a waiver on your behalf. This is then presented when you get your Work Permit. There is more information on the TL in this pinned thread:

[Scott]

I am going to post my understanding of the TL, I am not positive of the rules are or, more importantly, how they are implemented.

If you work for a school that is licensed, approved or operated under the Ministry of Education or the Basic Education Office (correct name?) and you teach prathom or mathyom, you need a Teacher's License. I don't know if KG level need to have one. Where I work, they all do, including KG because our school is not exclusively KG.

Once you have a non-immigrant B visa, the school should apply for a TL or a waiver on your behalf. This is then presented when you get your Work Permit. There is more information on the TL in this pinned thread:

[Firelily]

Pakeha: my understanding of the teacher's licence is the following - submit all documents, sign a paper your clerk gives you, and wait at least two years. at least that's where I am at the moment. I got a work permit recently because my school attached a sheet of paper saying that the application for the licence had been submitted and is in progress (is it??!) .

[Pakeha]

Brilliant. That sounds about right. And at the end of the two years if the Licence isn't granted reapply?

So Firelily, are you a B.Ed. or similar and do you expect to get the TL?

[Firelily]

My problem is, my degree says "M.A in teaching English as a foreign language", and I have been told to expect problems because of that. However, colleagues who applied at the same time and possess a slice of paper with the magic letters "B.Ed." are stuck just the same.... so, your guess on this issue is just as good as mine.....

[Pakeha]

"M.A in teaching English as a foreign language",

I would have thought that would be an ideal qualification. As I guess you did too? When you say your friends are stuck just the same as you, do you mean they have to wait two years to find out if they get the permit?

[Firelily]

All our applications have been stuck in the system for two years. Some even more. That includes Thai teachers as well! In fact, I don't know a single person who has received a teacher's licence. I'm quite sure nobody has even touched those stacks of documents, probably they are in a box somewhere. I'm not hoping or expecting or thinking anything, I'm pretty sure Thais will keep the show running one way or another, can't really see them taking our work permits away or the whole system of bilingual programs (which is by the way built on teachers with degrees unrelated to education, most of the time) is going to collapse. By the way, new non-Bs are being extended beyond the initial 3 months validity and work permits are being granted now just like they were a few years ago. The only difference seems to be the police fingerprinting and the mandatory syphilis test (a <deleted>? for me for sure).

[jayinoz]

"M.A in teaching English as a foreign language",

I would have thought that would be an ideal qualification. As I guess you did too? When you say your friends are stuck just the same as you, do you mean they have to wait two years to find out if they get the permit?

Come on it is a M. A in Ed. No need to be so long winded about it. If they want specifics then state the major. Try not to over think- make it as simplistic as possible for them. Let them be able to tick all the boxes and you are IN. If they want a MA in Ed, this is essentially what you have. You simply wished to major in English as a Foreign Language, perfect.

Could get you into some good International schools when you in the know with some people from these schools. Meanwhile half the pay in a Private School will have to do- 30-45K depending on exp. Double it you get into an international school. Chok Dee