Son caught with cannabis on the islands

[Mac98]

On 4/29/2018 at 11:03 AM, sanemax said:

Internal Death Camps

Icky Doodoo Camp

[Hummin]

@Mom2

 

Thank you for your update, and also to share your experience here. A good reminder to keep your hands clean while visiting Thailand. 

 

Some posters should try to take a deep look at themselves, and see if they have done anything stupid while they where young and fresh, or still do. 

 

I can mention common idiotic things to do in Thailand

 

Stay without insurance

Stay without visa

Driving without helmet

Buy property in thai name

Drink everyday and drive, or drink and drive at all

Take home strangers ;-)

and many more things

 

Edited April 30, 2018 by Hummin

[rdhowell]

8 hours ago, Mum2 said:

Thank you to all for your supportive words, it has been a trying few months! Those who commented otherwise; that is your prerogative; thank goodness for freedom of speech. 

 

The main reason for posting the update was to serve as a salutary lesson to those travellers who think breaking laws abroad is a good idea. It is not - ever. 

 

A few points to note;

1: the drugs were openly sold at bars and being consumed on the premises

2: Buy them and consume them on the premises and you are probably ok, buy them, have a panic and  stupidly take them away - you are fair game for a phone ahead ‘road block’. This appears to be the MO for bars who want to keep both the law and their customers appeased

3: if there are 2 or more of you - expect both of you to be arrested, regardless of who has possession

 

It may feel that ‘everyone is doing it’ and that may be the case, but just don’t! 

  

A good conclusion to the drama that unfolded.

Using drugs whatsoever, regardless of legality, morality, is always a dangerous thing to do. But we all do dangerous things. I think we can all agree on these.

Every country has different laws regarding drugs. Know them in advance, and be prepared. Right vs Wrong does not matter. It's the practical issue that is more relevant, for now.

However, go beyond the written law.

In this country, for example, the written law matters less compared to Western countries. Thus, you may bribe your way out, regardless of written law. I know, because I have done it.

But you also may be dealt an incredible injustice. Much of the outcome is unpredictable here, but more predictable in Western countries who tend to follow written law. There should be little or no dispute on that issue either.

And of course, everyone is not doing it, but if they are, and it's wrong/immoral/illegal - so what? This is about you, not them. 

 

Now if we can get some closure on the other issue regarding whether or not a foreign person can/should be dealt with judicially after being arrested, in terms of bail/passport/court hearing, etc.

Again, don't rely on written law which has been posted here. If you do, you are missing the point.

The outcome is still uncertain - because each officer/court/judge may or may not follow the written law. There are bribes. There is corruption. Every case is different.

Displaying written law, or using it as a defence, becomes less meaningful in this country called Thailand.

Think in terms of practicality and corruption. Not written law.

 

 

[huberthammer]

32 minutes ago, rdhowell said:

Hilarious.

Good thing you won't be taken seriously.

mate - you trying to set a new record on how many replies a single user can have on a single topic?  You seem to be quite the authority on all aspects of this story.

[rdhowell]

2 minutes ago, huberthammer said:

mate - you trying to set a new record on how many replies a single user can have on a single topic?  You seem to be quite the authority on all aspects of this story.

Point well taken. 

Just got into the groove, I guess.

Cheers!

 

[Time Traveller]

On 4/28/2018 at 2:53 AM, Just Weird said:

"...deported and blacklisted for life for 2.9g of weed".

Deported and blacklisted for life for doing something he knew was illegal but he thought that it was worth the risk.    You're not condoning what he did, are you?

 

"...deferred until May 9th (funnily enough the date his visa was due to expire, where he would have been charged with overstaying too)"

That is incorrect.  There are arrangements made for arrestees' visas to be extended to accommodate the delay caused by court action as a result of criminal activity even though they cause the delay themselves by being arrested.

Strange the OP is mentioning they were worried about him being charged for overstay, when he was blacklisted for life !

Did the (OP's) son not know the standard Thai penalties for these crimes? Just curious, was this really an open and shut case against him, or was there doubt the drugs belonged to him? 

Because it doesn't make sense (for the proscution or defendent) to be concerned something inconsequential, if he was obviously guilty of more serious crime that results in a lifetime ban. 

[Aussieroaming]

1 hour ago, huberthammer said:

mate - you trying to set a new record on how many replies a single user can have on a single topic?  You seem to be quite the authority on all aspects of this story.

Quite likely he can talk under water too.

[simoh1490]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

@Mom2

 

Thank you for your update, and also to share your experience here. A good reminder to keep your hands clean while visiting Thailand. 

 

Some posters should try to take a deep look at themselves, and see if they have done anything stupid while they where young and fresh, or still do. 

 

I can mention common idiotic things to do in Thailand

 

Stay without insurance

Stay without visa

Driving without helmet

Buy property in thai name

Drink everyday and drive, or drink and drive at all

Take home strangers ;-)

and many more things

 

You forgot to add: not going to church every Sunday and not taking your vitamins every morning.

[Hummin]

7 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

You forgot to add: not going to church every Sunday and not taking your vitamins every morning.

Im not religious, heaven sake I would live in Sodoma or Gomora if I was. But I eat healthy, and at moment, I only take fish oil supplements and whey protein. 

 

But thank you for your concern. Appreciate it very much

[Just Weird]

3 hours ago, rdhowell said:

Wow, blame the mom for the corruption of the officials!!!!

Hahaha. No need to waste time pointing out the flaw there.

 

Yes. Sorry, but it was ignorance. Deal.

No, I didn't blame her for the corruption; what I did was comment that she had made a derogatory comment about corrupt practices after contributing to them by voluntarily paying bribes to Thai authorities in order to get her son's case fast-tracked.  That is called hypocrisy.

 

And any ignorance is not mine!

[Just Weird]

2 hours ago, rdhowell said:

Actually, every crime is made-up, by DEFINITION.

A "crime" is something that is illegal, and "illegal" is established by a person/court/country, etc.

Legality, and thus criminality, are in the eye of the beholder.

In this important sense: a "crime" has no necessary connection to Right vs Wrong; Ethics; Morals.

 

Most people here taking issue with the woman and her son are doing so because of an Implicit assumption, which they do not state openly: a crime means that it is Wrong, morally. This is what really urks them (and perhaps you) underneath, but few will admit this.

However, nothing could be farther from the truth.

A crime is man-made. There is no crime unless a law is created by man. But whether that law reflects the reality of it being morally wrong - that is an entirely separate issue.

 

Jesus, what a load of garbage.

 

"Legality, and thus criminality, are in the eye of the beholder".

No, legality, as you stated yourself, is established by law, it is not up to any individual to decide what is legal or otherwise unless you believe, for example, that murder is only illegal in the eyes of the individual!

[Just Weird]

2 hours ago, rdhowell said:

 

And of course, everyone is not doing it, but if they are, and it's wrong/immoral/illegal - so what? This is about you, not them. 

 

The outcome is still uncertain - because each officer/court/judge may or may not follow the written law. There are bribes. There is corruption. 

"There are bribes. There is corruption".

There's no need to point that out yet again, she knows it only too well, she was part of it even though she didn't have to be.

Edited April 30, 2018 by Just Weird

[Spock]

42 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

No, I didn't blame her for the corruption; what I did was comment that she had made a derogatory comment about corrupt practices after contributing to them by voluntarily paying bribes to Thai authorities in order to get her son's case fast-tracked.  That is called hypocrisy.

 

And any ignorance is not mine!

If it was your son would you have left him in jail or fast tracked the case. I know what I would do. 

[Chivas]

15 hours ago, gaff said:

 

Frankly, I hope that it happens to anybody close to you enough to you for you to feel the pain.

 

I cannot stand ridiculous people like you who should be deported as soon as they cause and accident after drinking even 1 glass of any alcohol.

 

 

lol my children were bought up to understand drugs were strictly taboo off limits and expect no support from me should the shight hit the fan

All 5 have no record or history of drugs. Alcohol for your information whilst quite capable of causing mayhem is not an illegal substance. Drugs simply are and anyone who supports the convicted lad clearly has a history themselves.

I would have given him a maximum stretch on top of the fine plus the lifetime banning. He got off lightly

[simoh1490]

2 hours ago, Just Weird said:

Jesus, what a load of garbage.

 

"Legality, and thus criminality, are in the eye of the beholder".

No, legality, as you stated yourself, is established by law, it is not up to any individual to decide what is legal or otherwise unless you believe, for example, that murder is only illegal in the eyes of the individual!

 

Legality is stated by law but it is indeed frequently up to the individual as to what applies and what doesn't, we see that single every day, selective adherence and selective enforcement - you may not like it, you may wish it was different but it is so, legality, and thus criminality, are all too frequently in the eye of the beholder. And before you start, this is not a technical or theoretical interpretation of the way of life in Thailand, it is the practical and real one.

[rdhowell]

1 hour ago, Just Weird said:

No, I didn't blame her for the corruption; what I did was comment that she had made a derogatory comment about corrupt practices after contributing to them by voluntarily paying bribes to Thai authorities in order to get her son's case fast-tracked.  That is called hypocrisy.

 

And any ignorance is not mine!

First, your exact words: "Don't self-righteously complain about corruption when you chose to part of it!"

The only way to interpret this is that she was a part of the corruption - "you chose to [be a] part of it."

That is blaming her for having a part in the fact that there is corruption. Because she payed a bribe.

Maybe you didn't realize it, but you are exactly blaming her. She played a part in the corruption. She was complicit.

This is really simple, so I will assume that you just didn't realize that you were, in fact, blaming her.

An analogy: People who purchase alcohol, but don't drive drunk,  are still contributing to drunk driving deaths by keeping alcohol stores open, keeping it legal, where the person who did drink and drive purchased the alcohol, resulting in a fatality.

Many people argue just such a point. They are blaming everyone who purchases alcohol, to some degree, on the death of a person, not just the drunk driver.

So you are doing the same here. Enough of that point. Best to just accept it and go from there.

However, that approach is very problematic. At the end of the day, the corrupt officials will be blamed, accordingly, for the problem, and not the people who desperately bribe their way out. The officials created the problem in the first place, so the blame is ultimately on them, as it should be.

 

As far as hypocrisy, again, the officials setting up the situation for a bribe are the focus. You can say that "technically" she was a hypocrite, but any reasonable person will not buy it.

Another analogy: John sets up a situation for Jim in that the only way out for Jim is to kill an innocent person.

No judge will hold Jim accountable.

The same is true here. She did what she had to do, because the officials set the whole thing up.

From that more accurate perspective, she is not a hypocrite in the normal sense, just as Jim is not a murderer.

I hope that makes sense.

 

Second, I was not referring to you as being ignorant. That should be clear from the reply.

 

 

 

[rdhowell]

2 hours ago, Just Weird said:

Jesus, what a load of garbage.

 

"Legality, and thus criminality, are in the eye of the beholder".

No, legality, as you stated yourself, is established by law, it is not up to any individual to decide what is legal or otherwise unless you believe, for example, that murder is only illegal in the eyes of the individual!

The garbage is yours. Jesus would agree, because you quoted me out of context, as many do Jesus.

Read the very next sentence: "In this important sense: a "crime" has no necessary connection to Right vs. Wrong; Ethics; Morals."

 

So here is the whole passage:

 

Legality, and thus criminality, are in the eye of the beholder. In this important sense: a "crime" has no necessary connection to Right vs. Wrong; Ethics; Morals.

 

I hope you see the difference, and the meaning.

The whole point being that just because its legal, doesn't make it "right" and vice versa.

This is why we are discussing this topic. Namely, that possessing marijuana here is illegal,  and carries harsh punishment sometimes. But that doesn't mean its "wrong" , nor does it mean the penalties are deserved.

Thus many conclude the law is in fact unjust, and the penalties are unjust. And I agree.

 

 

[rdhowell]

2 hours ago, Just Weird said:

"There are bribes. There is corruption".

There's no need to point that out yet again, she knows it only too well, she was part of it even though she didn't have to be.

And so you are part of many problems, including drugs and corruption, or who knows what else, because you pay taxes and/or purchase products keeping suppliers in business, and one or more of these things ultimately lead to the deaths of many people. Lets not be a hypocrite.

So its best for you not to push this idea, because it will turn and bite you just as well.

[rdhowell]

1 hour ago, Chivas said:

lol my children were bought up to understand drugs were strictly taboo off limits and expect no support from me should the shight hit the fan

All 5 have no record or history of drugs. Alcohol for your information whilst quite capable of causing mayhem is not an illegal substance. Drugs simply are and anyone who supports the convicted lad clearly has a history themselves.

I would have given him a maximum stretch on top of the fine plus the lifetime banning. He got off lightly

The things that are "clear" here are:

1. You are laughing to yourself

2. Think you know what "the history" of 5 children are, which means you have no idea how to parent with that illusion 

3. Assume that you can determine someone else's "history" of drug use by their support/lack thereof of "this lad", and

4. Its a good thing you have no say so in the matter, because your skeletons would be brought out of your closet if you were in such a position.

 

But wow. As they might say in the States, "You Go Girl!"

[Just Weird]

2 hours ago, Spock said:

If it was your son would you have left him in jail or fast tracked the case. I know what I would do. 

Yes, I do know what I would do.

 

Let's get something straight, this person was not in jail he was on bail!  I wouldn't  complain on a forum about the corruption that I had been party to in order to benefit my family, that's for sure!

[Just Weird]

1 hour ago, rdhowell said:

First, your exact words: "Don't self-righteously complain about corruption when you chose to part of it!"

The only way to interpret this is that she was a part of the corruption - "you chose to [be a] part of it."

That is blaming her for having a part in the fact that there is corruption. Because she payed a bribe.

Maybe you didn't realize it, but you are exactly blaming her. She played a part in the corruption. She was complicit.

This is really simple, so I will assume that you just didn't realize that you were, in fact, blaming her.

An analogy: People who purchase alcohol, but don't drive drunk,  are still contributing to drunk driving deaths by keeping alcohol stores open, keeping it legal, where the person who did drink and drive purchased the alcohol, resulting in a fatality.

Many people argue just such a point. They are blaming everyone who purchases alcohol, to some degree, on the death of a person, not just the drunk driver.

So you are doing the same here. Enough of that point. Best to just accept it and go from there.

However, that approach is very problematic. At the end of the day, the corrupt officials will be blamed, accordingly, for the problem, and not the people who desperately bribe their way out. The officials created the problem in the first place, so the blame is ultimately on them, as it should be.

 

As far as hypocrisy, again, the officials setting up the situation for a bribe are the focus. You can say that "technically" she was a hypocrite, but any reasonable person will not buy it.

Another analogy: John sets up a situation for Jim in that the only way out for Jim is to kill an innocent person.

No judge will hold Jim accountable.

The same is true here. She did what she had to do, because the officials set the whole thing up.

From that more accurate perspective, she is not a hypocrite in the normal sense, just as Jim is not a murderer.

I hope that makes sense.

 

Second, I was not referring to you as being ignorant. That should be clear from the reply

Your fatuous "analogies" make even less sense than the rest of your post.

 

[Just Weird]

57 minutes ago, rdhowell said:

And so you are part of many problems, including drugs and corruption, or who knows what else, because you pay taxes and/or purchase products keeping suppliers in business, and one or more of these things ultimately lead to the deaths of many people. Lets not be a hypocrite.

So its best for you not to push this idea, because it will turn and bite you just as well.

Love to see how you are going to "bite" me!

[cyril sneer]

Did those Nigerians recently caught selling/using drugs have to go through this same process?

[ubonr1971]

I think muma has failed as a mother. Poor effort on your part that your son is smoking an illegal substance in Asia. Obviously not very smart family

[soalbundy]

8 minutes ago, ubonr1971 said:

I think muma has failed as a mother. Poor effort on your part that your son is smoking an illegal substance in Asia. Obviously not very smart family

How would you set about controlling an 18 year old ? First of all he is legally an adult and can decide for himself what risks he takes, mum can't say don't do this anymore. Have you had any experience bringing up teenage children ? It isn't easy and in many ways, especially these days with mobility and modern communication, you are powerless, good or less good results depend on the pixie in the sky.

[watcharacters]

On 4/28/2018 at 6:37 PM, Mum2 said:

Apologies I actually meant military law which replaced martial law and is seen to be more stringent than previous administrations

 

Please understand any verbal  or in fact written error on this site will cause the   TVF dogs to pounce.

 

They are trained to react in such a manner.    Not their fault really.     Forgive them, please.

 

[simoh1490]

38 minutes ago, ubonr1971 said:

I think muma has failed as a mother. Poor effort on your part that your son is smoking an illegal substance in Asia. Obviously not very smart family

Troll.

[rdhowell]

2 hours ago, Just Weird said:

Your fatuous "analogies" make even less sense than the rest of your post.

 

No, you just don't understand them.

But if you want to try and back up your assertions, feel free. Otherwise, your comment is meaningless.

[rdhowell]

2 hours ago, Just Weird said:

Love to see how you are going to "bite" me!

Wow, you are "just weird" after all.

[Just Weird]

1 hour ago, rdhowell said:

Wow, you are "just weird" after all.

Wow, you're the first one to make that extremely humorous and original comment...oh hang on, no you're not, hundreds of posters got there before you.  Usually happens when they haven't got an answer!