'My gladiator lay down his shield': Toddler Alfie Evans dies in Britain

[Jonathan Fairfield]

'My gladiator lay down his shield': Toddler Alfie Evans dies in Britain

 

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Alfie Evans, the 23-month-old British toddler whose grave illness drew international attention, died early on Saturday, his family said.

 

Alfie had a rare, degenerative disease and had been in a semi-vegetative state for more than a year.

 

After a series of court cases, doctors at Alder Hey Children's Hospital in Liverpool removed his life support on Monday, against his parents wishes.

 

He confounded expectations by continuing to breathe unaided for days, but died in the early hours of Saturday, his parents said.

 

"My gladiator lay down his shield and gained his wings at 02:30 absolutely heartbroken," the boy's father Tom Evans wrote on Facebook.

 

"Our baby boy grew his wings tonight ... Thank you everyone for all your support," his mother Kate James wrote.

 

Medical experts in Britain had agreed that more treatment for Alfie would be futile, but his parents wanted to take him to Rome, where the Vatican's Bambino Gesu hospital had offered to care for him.

 

A British court rejected an appeal by the parents on Wednesday to take their son to Italy.

 

The case has provoked strong feelings over whether judges, doctors or parents have the right to decide on a child's life. Alfie's parents have been backed by Pope Francis and Poland's President Andrzej Duda.

 

(Reporting by James Davey; Editing by Andrew Heavens)

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-04-28

[Andaman Al]

Sad. Too difficult to empathise with the parents. Thankfully few people have to carry such a burden in their lives. They deserve no criticism such as they are getting, just sympathy and understanding. RIP little one.

[Grouse]

Sad story indeed

[NanLaew]

Truly heart breaking.

 

But it hasn't stopped Newt Gingrich hijacking the tragedy. He's not alone of course but his ramble on Fox News (where else) although pointing out salient issues regarding nascent nanny states (or what he labels 'Britain's scary secular state) and what happens when one becomes inured and apathetic, is more odious than most. By bringing together the heart-breakingly short lives of Charlie Gard and Alfie Evans, playing loose with words like 'condemned to die', 'death sentences for innocent infants', asserting 'how dangerous and heartless government tyranny can be once God is rejected' and otherwise bigging up his belief that Constitutionally protected 'faith' prevents the same happening in the USA, he casually dismisses the unique, multiple daily tragedies that are forever wrapped up in the protections of their Constitution.

 

RIP Alfie.

[jenny2017]

RIP, little man. 

[brewsterbudgen]

Truly heart breaking.
 
But it hasn't stopped Newt Gingrich hijacking the tragedy. He's not alone of course but his ramble on Fox News (where else) although pointing out salient issues regarding nascent nanny states (or what he labels 'Britain's scary secular state) and what happens when one becomes inured and apathetic, is more odious than most. By bringing together the heart-breakingly short lives of Charlie Gard and Alfie Evans, playing loose with words like 'condemned to die', 'death sentences for innocent infants', asserting 'how dangerous and heartless government tyranny can be once God is rejected' and otherwise bigging up his belief that Constitutionally protected 'faith' prevents the same happening in the USA, he casually dismisses the unique, multiple daily tragedies that are forever wrapped up in the protections of their Constitution.
 
RIP Alfie.

Indeed. Truly appalling how this sad story has been ignorantly exploited to make right-wing political points, particularly in the U.S.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Tilacme]

1 hour ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

He confounded expectations by continuing to breathe unaided for days

Could have been in the Vatican hospital in 2 hours but for uk idiots who are able to override parents wishes. Very sad, RIP.

[brewsterbudgen]

Could have been in the Vatican hospital in 2 hours but for uk idiots who are able to override parents wishes. Very sad, RIP.

And how would the Vatican hospital have helped? The parents' wishes are not as important as unnecessary pain and distress for the child.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[7by7]

12 minutes ago, Tilacme said:

Could have been in the Vatican hospital in 2 hours but for uk idiots who are able to override parents wishes. Very sad, RIP.

The hospital in Rome, not a Vatican hospital, though it does have links, would not have cured Alfie, it would merely have prolonged his life and suffering.

 

It pains me to say so, as losing a child is every parent's worse nightmare, but in wishing to take Alfie to Italy his parents were considering their wishes, not what was best for their son.

 

Who was Alfie Evans and what was the row over his treatment?

 

As for the activities of the demonstrators outside Alder Hay, which included shouting abuse and threats at not only the medical staff, most of whom had nothing to do with Alfie's care, but also others entering the hospital including parents visiting their own sick children; they should be thoroughly ashamed.

 

Alfie Evans: Claims protest makes hospital visits 'scary'

 

 

 

 

[Expatthailover]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Indeed. Truly appalling how this sad story has been ignorantly exploited to make right-wing political points, particularly in the U.S.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Very very tragic story.

It always amazes me that such groups are willing to outlay millions to keep alive people who are in semi vegetative states or similar yet are happy to dismantle basic healthcare systems like obamacare that help ordinary people get on with their lives. 

Lets hope this bereaved family can get a semblance of a normal life back.

[pacovl46]

Wow! I find it crass that the courts said no when there was a hospital willing to take care of him! 

 

But on the other hand, if there was absolutely no chance of him ever getting out of this vegetative state ever again then what’s the point of keeping him alive, considering the complications that would have come with him laying around for the rest of his life?

 

I know it’s a tough decision, but having a person suffer just because you can’t let go seems wrong. 

 

Anyway, Rest In Peace!

[Neeranam]

I empathise as I lost a baby daughter here in Thailand.

His parents will get over it and realize that it was for the best, hopefully sooner than later.

There is a reason for everything, no good nor bad in this world of casuality.

[scubascuba3]

Very very tragic story.
It always amazes me that such groups are willing to outlay millions to keep alive people who are in semi vegetative states or similar yet are happy to dismantle basic healthcare systems like obamacare that help ordinary people get on with their lives. 
Lets hope this bereaved family can get a semblance of a normal life back.

Yes money could have been better spent elsewhere and saved lives

[Jip99]

2 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

21 hours ago, Expatthailover said:

Very very tragic story.
It always amazes me that such groups are willing to outlay millions to keep alive people who are in semi vegetative states or similar yet are happy to dismantle basic healthcare systems like obamacare that help ordinary people get on with their lives. 
Lets hope this bereaved family can get a semblance of a normal life back.

Yes money could have been better spent elsewhere and saved lives

 

Yes, as harsh as that looks in black and white, it is factually correct.

[FitnessHealthTravel]

He's definitely in a better place.  I know the love we have for our kids is indescribable and I know Alfie's parents wanted him to live but it sounds like the quality of his life would not have been good.  RIP little man.

[Gregorio1]

On ‎4‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 6:16 PM, NanLaew said:

Truly heart breaking.

 

But it hasn't stopped Newt Gingrich hijacking the tragedy. He's not alone of course but his ramble on Fox News (where else) although pointing out salient issues regarding nascent nanny states (or what he labels 'Britain's scary secular state) and what happens when one becomes inured and apathetic, is more odious than most. By bringing together the heart-breakingly short lives of Charlie Gard and Alfie Evans, playing loose with words like 'condemned to die', 'death sentences for innocent infants', asserting 'how dangerous and heartless government tyranny can be once God is rejected' and otherwise bigging up his belief that Constitutionally protected 'faith' prevents the same happening in the USA, he casually dismisses the unique, multiple daily tragedies that are forever wrapped up in the protections of their Constitution.

 

RIP Alfie.

The Newt is an excellent example of how corruption and excrement float to the surface.  We scraped him from our shoes years ago, yet his foul odor refuses to dissipate.  While there is excellent health care in the US, availability beyond basic services is generally limited to the those who can afford it.  The State (Gov) would NOT have stepped in to support the continued treatment, so his (their) care would have been dependent upon support from donors.  The decision to remove them from life support would have to have come from the parents.

[Tilacme]

On ‎28‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 7:23 PM, 7by7 said:

would not have cured Alfie, it would merely have prolonged his life and suffering.

We will never know now

[Neeranam]

On 28/04/2018 at 6:16 PM, NanLaew said:

Truly heart breaking.

 

But it hasn't stopped Newt Gingrich hijacking the tragedy. He's not alone of course but his ramble on Fox News (where else) although pointing out salient issues regarding nascent nanny states (or what he labels 'Britain's scary secular state) and what happens when one becomes inured and apathetic, is more odious than most. By bringing together the heart-breakingly short lives of Charlie Gard and Alfie Evans, playing loose with words like 'condemned to die', 'death sentences for innocent infants', asserting 'how dangerous and heartless government tyranny can be once God is rejected' and otherwise bigging up his belief that Constitutionally protected 'faith' prevents the same happening in the USA, he casually dismisses the unique, multiple daily tragedies that are forever wrapped up in the protections of their Constitution.

 

RIP Alfie.

Turn your TV off. I stopped watching that nonsense years ago.

[7by7]

On ‎30‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 3:32 AM, Tilacme said:

On ‎28‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 1:23 PM, 7by7 said:

would not have cured Alfie, it would merely have prolonged his life and suffering.

We will never know now

 We know what the Italian doctors said:

Quote

Alfie is in a “semi-vegetative state” because of a degenerative neurological condition that doctors have been unable to identify.

Three experts from the Bambino Gesù hospital visited Alfie in Liverpool at the request of the parents, but they agreed with the doctors that further treatment would be “futile” in finding a cure.

However, they also said they were willing to take the tot to Rome to undergo operations to help him breathe and receive food, which would keep him alive for an “undefined period”

(source)

 No cure, just possibly prolonging his life via numerous operations for no reason.

 

Do that to a dog and you'd be prosecuted for animal cruelty!

[Tilacme]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 We know what the Italian doctors said:

 No cure, just possibly prolonging his life via numerous operations for no reason.

 

Do that to a dog and you'd be prosecuted for animal cruelty!

Where there is life there is hope.

 

The parents should have had the final word, not the State imo  

 

Your comment regarding dogs is both crass and inappropriate.

[stevenl]

9 minutes ago, Tilacme said:

Where there is life there is hope.

 

The parents should have had the final word, not the State imo  

 

Your comment regarding dogs is both crass and inappropriate.

Why is the comment inappropriate?

 

It is true, with dogs when we see no prospect of getting well we as humans decide the humane solution is 'to put the dog to sleep'. But with humans we prolong the suffering. Time we get humane with humans' deaths as well.

[Gregorio1]

14 minutes ago, Tilacme said:

Where there is life there is hope.

 

The parents should have had the final word, not the State imo  

 

Your comment regarding dogs is both crass and inappropriate.

You don't seem to be interested in the medical facts of the case and your statement is a meaningless platitude.  In many countries, experimental medical procedures on animals including subjecting them to long term life support  is subject to official internal board  review  and requires justification.  So the statement was quite accurate and appropriate.  How much of your personal funds did YOU donate for supportive care? 

 

[Tilacme]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Why is the comment inappropriate?

 

It is true, with dogs when we see no prospect of getting well we as humans decide the humane solution is 'to put the dog to sleep'. But with humans we prolong the suffering. Time we get humane with humans' deaths as well.

I see an overriding role of parents in this situation.  I have no idea why you are drawing parallels between a child's life and a dogs. That is a matter for you. 

[Tilacme]

3 minutes ago, Gregorio1 said:

You don't seem to be interested in the medical facts of the case and your statement is a meaningless platitude.  In many countries, experimental medical procedures on animals including subjecting them to long term life support  is subject to official internal board  review  and requires justification.  So the statement was quite accurate and appropriate.  How much of your personal funds did YOU donate for supportive care? 

 

Medical facts indeed, what about the human spirit!  This little guy fought for days after life support was switched off defying "medical facts" by the hour. I repeat, parents were in the best position  to make the final decision. 

[Andaman Al]

27 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Why is the comment inappropriate?

 

It is true, with dogs when we see no prospect of getting well we as humans decide the humane solution is 'to put the dog to sleep'. But with humans we prolong the suffering. Time we get humane with humans' deaths as well.

 

I agree with the poster that there is no point comparing animals to humans. A horse breaks it's leg, why not patch it up, splint it, take care and it will happily live it's days out in pastures. But nope we kill it to prevent 'suffering'. It costs time and money to keep it alive.  If it were in Arizona 3 days from anywhere 150 years ago then fair call. Shoot it or it will be eaten by wild animals, but today - not so.

 

We can't even allow people that are suffering terribly with terminal diseases the right to choose assisted euthanasia in 90% of countries. We deny it and tell them they must suffer. They quote sanctity of life and all that. If the parents were wanting to end the child's life there would be a court hearing to protect the rights of the child to live. But the parents wanted the child to live, they wanted to try and do what every single one of us would do ourselves, and that is save our child at all costs. It was the state that gave up on the child. The decision to terminate treatment by hospitals is unfortunately a backroom decision taken by financiers. It is financial triage.

 

I am quite sure if this infant would have been able to communicate he would have been shouting , "no, I want to live, I want a life, there may be a chance I will survive, I want hugs and kisses and school and first dates and love and grandchildren, just please let me try, give me a chance".

 

 

[stevenl]

45 minutes ago, Tilacme said:

I see an overriding role of parents in this situation.  I have no idea why you are drawing parallels between a child's life and a dogs. That is a matter for you. 

No, that's not a matter for me, that is a matter for the previous poster who made the comparison, and you who objected to it.

I don't mind the comparison nor did I make the initial parallel.

[stevenl]

" We can't even allow people that are suffering terribly with terminal diseases the right to choose assisted euthanasia in 90% of countries. We deny it and tell them they must suffer. "

 

Yes, and I don't agree with that, assisted euthanasia should be possible (with provisions of course). If we do the same for animals, why not for humans. I know when my mother was dying I wanted to help her stop suffering, and considered a pillow over her head, but did not do it due to fear.

 

Regarding your horse, don't know enough about that to comment, but if true and only expenses are the issue I agree, help it get better and live a healthy life, maybe even a cripple life.

 

I don't agree it was a financial decision in this case, I am convinced that MD's make these decisions based on ethical reasons, not financial. And I know quite a few I would trust with these decisions.

[Tilacme]

15 minutes ago, stevenl said:

No, that's not a matter for me, that is a matter for the previous poster who made the comparison, and you who objected to it.

I don't mind the comparison nor did I make the initial parallel.

You clearly associated yourself with the comment imho.

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, Tilacme said:

You clearly associated yourself with the comment imho.

You could have said 'oops, sorry, wrong poster' in stead of this.

 

Never mind.

[7by7]

10 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 We know what the Italian doctors said:

 No cure, just possibly prolonging his life via numerous operations for no reason.

 

Do that to a dog and you'd be prosecuted for animal cruelty!

 

8 hours ago, Tilacme said:

Where there is life there is hope.

 

The parents should have had the final word, not the State imo  

 

Your comment regarding dogs is both crass and inappropriate.

 

All the medical experts, including the Italian doctors. have confirmed that the majority of Alfie's brain was dead. Only automatic functions remained, and they gradually failed once life support was switched of. There was no hope, merely the desire of his parents to prolong his life for their own desires. 

 

As I said previously; I fully sympathise with the parents; I cannot comprehend what it is like to lose a child. But at the end of the day, what is important is what was best for Alfie; prolong his life merely to satisfy his parents desire, or allow him to die and end his suffering?

 

Sometimes professionals who are experts in their field need to override the will of parents in the interests of the child.

 

I believe my comment about dogs is most apropos or I wouldn't have made it.

 

8 hours ago, Tilacme said:

Medical facts indeed, what about the human spirit!  This little guy fought for days after life support was switched off defying "medical facts" by the hour. I repeat, parents were in the best position  to make the final decision. 

Poor Alfie had no human spirit left, only the gradually declining automatic functions of his body. Once his life support was switched off he did last for days. Totally unaware of his surroundings, totally incapable of any voluntary activity. Because his brain was dead. The brain is different to all other parts of the body. Brain cells cannot be healed, they cannot be replaced, new ones will not grow to replace dead ones.

 

Poor Alfie suffered regular fits with spasmodic movements: which his parents tried to convince themselves were voluntary movement. We do not know whether or not those fits caused him pain; but, speaking as an epileptic, I can assure that no fit is pleasant and the movements whilst fitting are far from voluntary!

 

The parents were not in the best position to make the final decision because that decision would, understandably, have been made with the heart and not with the head. Such a decision may have brought comfort to the parents, but would have done nothing for Alfie except prolong his life and suffering needlessly; maybe even increased his suffering due to the operations the Italians said they would perform on him.