Standard soda water in Thailand -- is it seltzer or club soda?

[Classic Ray]

Pound to a pinch of sh*t Thai soda water is simply water plus CO2 as that is cheapest way to make it and they realise no Thai would ever be prepared to pay for anything fancier.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Classic Ray said:

Pound to a pinch of sh*t Thai soda water is simply water plus CO2 as that is cheapest way to make it and they realise no Thai would ever be prepared to pay for anything fancier.

I totally reject that theory. I've already explained there is an industrial benefit to adding a little salt and simple salt is VERY CHEAP. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Jingthing

[Jip99]

2 minutes ago, prakhonchai nick said:

Apart from Singha and Rock, there is also Chang and Leo soda -all available in supermarkets

As far as I am concerned they all taste the same, but the Mrs has recently insisted that Singha is more gassy and therefore better, and thats what I should buy when out shopping.  Only problem is that it is some 20bt/case more expensive than Chang, the cheapest.

 

Unfortunately, don't have a leg to stand on, since my tipple, Chang beer, is somewhat more expensive than any soda.

 

Personally, there is something about Rock that I don’t like. It must be in the taste, surely, rather than any aversion to the packaging.

 

What I will say is that Thai soda waters are nothing like the UK sparkling water, or the Spanish agua con gas. I am currently in UK/Spain for 11 weeks and I can tell you that I am missing my Thai soda water both from a taste - and a price perspective. 20 Baht a tray difference becomes insignificant after these prices

[Jingthing]

Well, the qualities of the WATER obviously would have impact on even the most basic seltzer (just water and carbonation) especially people with discerning palates. 

Of course I love the super expensive mineral waters (a different thing) but I'm not of the class of people that goes to "water bars" and orders a 10 dollar glass of water!

[starky]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

No. Not talking about bars and if I went I would order beer anyway there.  You don't understand what I am talking about. Not complaining at all about a standard restaurant markup. Complaining about a distorted ratio markup of waters relative to beer.   

 

For example here is a normal mid level restaurant pricing. Nothing to complain it with that.

 

Water 30

Soda Water 40

Tiger 80

 

Here is cynical manipulation also mid level restaurant pricing.

 

Water 55

Soda Water 65

Tiger 80

 

Everyone knows the ratio is out of whack on that just by seeing prices at 7 11.

 

Such prices obviously encourage more people to order beer than really want it because it seems stupid to pay almost as much for water as beer. I don't like being engineered like that.

 

Also not talking about high end and fancy hotel restaurants. People expect to be extorted for everything there. Talking about more everyday level of midrange restaurants.

 

Low end places generally don't play such games.

 

 

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If you find soda too expensive in restaurants don't order it, refrigeration cost, space, and handling is all on par with beer. 7-11 prices have no bearing on this argument at all and having a whinge about it is pointless. As is comparing it to bottled water. I love soda and I don't feel like i am being "engineered" when I order nor contemplate what the price would be in 7-11. Also captain obvious of course a mid level restaurant will charge more than a "low end" restaurant. What do you think a Michelin star restaurant charges for still water compared to the bistro down the street? Fycks sake.

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, starky said:

If you find soda too expensive in restaurants don't order it, refrigeration cost, space, and handling is all on par with beer. 7-11 prices have no bearing on this argument at all and having a whinge about it is pointless. As is comparing it to bottled water. I love soda and I don't feel like i am being "engineered" when I order nor contemplate what the price would be in 7-11. Also captain obvious of course a mid level restaurant will charge more than a "low end" restaurant. What do you think a Michelin star restaurant charges for still water compared to the bistro down the street? Fycks sake.

I just don't agree with you.

I know enough about restaurant profit system's to have an informed opinion.

Yes, beverages are a huge profit center, and the markups are often higher than food costs.

The pricing examples I provided are basically about the restaurant showing hostility to anyone that would order water to nudging them (I'm sure largely successfully) to order something else more often. The ratios are off compared to beer. If you can't acknowledge that, we have nothing to talk about. 

Also I didn't say all restaurants do that. In fact most middle level restaurants don't. Which is why I notice when they do and find it obnoxious. Of course I won't let it stop me from eating there if I like the food, but if the food is less wonderful, it's would influence me to drop them completely. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Jingthing

[Jip99]

20 minutes ago, starky said:

If you find soda too expensive in restaurants don't order it, refrigeration cost, space, and handling is all on par with beer. 7-11 prices have no bearing on this argument at all and having a whinge about it is pointless. As is comparing it to bottled water. I love soda and I don't feel like i am being "engineered" when I order nor contemplate what the price would be in 7-11. Also captain obvious of course a mid level restaurant will charge more than a "low end" restaurant. What do you think a Michelin star restaurant charges for still water compared to the bistro down the street? Fycks sake.

 

 

You seem to be ignoring the base cost price vs mark up.

 

Last time I checked the unit price of a bottle of beer was somewhat higher than a bottle of soda.

 

Thai places have the same overhead structure (your fridge space argument) but they manage to sell soda at a third of the price of some Farang places.

[farcanell]

16 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

How do you reckon the cost for soda water is much less than beer?

Do you use less glasses?

Do the bottles take up less space, need less refrigeration?  

Maybe there are economies of scale - are you more likely to knock back six pints and go on to the hard stuff drinking soda water?

10 baht per cold bottled soda water seems to be about 25% of the purchase price of around 40 baht for a cold bottle of beer, at 7/11 etc ( if 7/11 etc etc can do it, then paragraph two is largely irrelevant)

 

ergo.... if a business adds on, say 10%, to all products, soda water should still be about 1/4 of the cost of a beer. This fails, when soda water is marked up by 400%, (40 baht) prior to sale..... vs beer, which is marked up by 50% to 100%

 

and then.... an alcohol and sugar drink, vs water.... lots of increased taxable value to include in pricing, if not now, then soon ( not up on thai tax... but I did read something about sugar taxes)

[Bill Miller]

16 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

How do you reckon the cost for soda water is much less than beer?

Do you use less glasses?

Do the bottles take up less space, need less refrigeration?  

Maybe there are economies of scale - are you more likely to knock back six pints and go on to the hard stuff drinking soda water?

Sorry, but bloody silly. Soda water average price is 8 baht vs.37 or so for cheapest beer at the store. Usually can be had at a restaurant for under 50 baht vs. 90 and up for bottled beer, or about 1/2 the price.
What the hell are you on about, "..number of glasses...", etc?
And yes, I am one who can easily tell the difference by taste of club soda vs. seltzer. I cannot imagine how one could not, if their taste buds are intact, lol.
What you buy here as "soda water" is seltzer, i.e. water with carbonation added. As mentioned above club soda has various types of salts used for flavour. For medical reasons I no can do.
Here is the nutritional profile for Singha soda water:
 

Calories in Singha Soda. water

Nutrition Facts

Singha - Soda. water

 

1. Servings: 325 ml 1 ml 1 cup

Calories	0	Sodium	0 mg
Total Fat	0 g	Potassium	0 mg
Saturated	0 g	Total Carbs	0 g
Polyunsaturated	0 g	Dietary Fiber	0 g
Monounsaturated	0 g	Sugars	0 g
Trans	0 g	Protein	0 g
Cholesterol	0 mg
Vitamin A	0%	Calcium	0%
Vitamin C	0%	Iron	0%

I scanned past all sorts of silly stuff, about lab testing, going to the bottling plants, "How would you knows?", etc.
Really wonder how some folks survive to maturity at times. I have known since a kid that there is a difference between the two. Try an egg cream or ice cream soda with club instead of seltzer. Should get your attention.
Also I have done a few stints as a bar tender, so put "professional knowledge" on that, id Google and the above quote from Singha does not convince ya, 

 

[farcanell]

36 minutes ago, starky said:

If you find soda too expensive in restaurants don't order it, refrigeration cost, space, and handling is all on par with beer. 7-11 prices have no bearing on this argument at all and having a whinge about it is pointless. As is comparing it to bottled water. I love soda and I don't feel like i am being "engineered" when I order nor contemplate what the price would be in 7-11. Also captain obvious of course a mid level restaurant will charge more than a "low end" restaurant. What do you think a Michelin star restaurant charges for still water compared to the bistro down the street? Fycks sake.

7/11 pricings have bearing on everything. It is reflective (as a minimum) of retail prices as paid by hotels, and other businesses as well.... further, 7/11 do exactly what a bar will do... unpack the individual bottles and stick em in a fridge (they even open the bottles for you, if you so wish)

 

the difference then?..... profit margin.... and you accurately reflect this concept in your last sentence.... a 400% profit margin is better than a 50% profit margin

 

imho.... restaurants are holding you hostage to an inflated price on their cheapest beverage, so I register my displeasure by taking my own, from the 7/11 next to the restaurant (or thereabouts), in need

 

Now.... this isn’t about being a cheap bugger... it’s about rebelling against extortionist prices, which I will not pay on principle (luckily beer doesn’t fall under that umbrella.... 400% price increase).... so beer beer beer me please

 

lol... and whilst the “captain obvious” tag can seem a little @@@@@@@!.... it is obvious.... however, I would expect a middle range restaurant to charge a percentage (range) uniformly higher than a cheap joint.... uniformly higher.... vs higher costs on cheaper items specifically

 

But hey.... it’s cheap enough with  a 400% markup... so if your happy with such a huge markup on a product ( surely then, to be fair, any products huge markup,) then carry on.

 

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

Sorry, but bloody silly. Soda water average price is 8 baht vs.37 or so for cheapest beer at the store. Usually can be had at a restaurant for under 50 baht vs. 90 and up for bottled beer, or about 1/2 the price.
What the hell are you on about, "..number of glasses...", etc?
And yes, I am one who can easily tell the difference by taste of club soda vs. seltzer. I cannot imagine how one could not, if their taste buds are intact, lol.
What you buy here as "soda water" is seltzer, i.e. water with carbonation added. As mentioned above club soda has various types of salts used for flavour. For medical reasons I no can do.
Here is the nutritional profile for Singha soda water:
 

Calories in Singha Soda. water

Nutrition Facts

Singha - Soda. water

 

1. Servings: 325 ml 1 ml 1 cup

Calories	0	Sodium	0 mg
Total Fat	0 g	Potassium	0 mg
Saturated	0 g	Total Carbs	0 g
Polyunsaturated	0 g	Dietary Fiber	0 g
Monounsaturated	0 g	Sugars	0 g
Trans	0 g	Protein	0 g
Cholesterol	0 mg
Vitamin A	0%	Calcium	0%
Vitamin C	0%	Iron	0%

I scanned past all sorts of silly stuff, about lab testing, going to the bottling plants, "How would you knows?", etc.
Really wonder how some folks survive to maturity at times. I have known since a kid that there is a difference between the two. Try an egg cream or ice cream soda with club instead of seltzer. Should get your attention.
Also I have done a few stints as a bar tender, so put "professional knowledge" on that, id Google and the above quote from Singha does not convince ya, 

 

OK, you trumped me!

I am totally on board now with seeing that Singha (which is indeed a very standard Thai soda water) is indeed equivalent to seltzer as per the terms used in the O.P.

Congratulations and thank you! 

[Jingthing]

More on the pricing thing.

Every customer has the right to have their own reactions to pricing, of course. 

I know people that won't eat at a restaurant just because of 100 baht soda water even if it's a special occasion and the food is five star level amazing.

That's not me not that I go to such places frequently.

My issue here is about ratios.

I have certain expectations about water pricing at restaurants based on the LEVEL of the restaurant.

 

Roughly three levels --

 

-- street food/cheap shophouse for locals

-- middle level

-- high end/fancy hotel

 

I expect large markups on all beverages starting at middle level places. My objection is when the profit ratios for waters is obviously way out of whack to their ratios for the other more expensive beverages.

 

That just pisses me off.

 

If you don't mind, enjoy!

Edited May 1, 2018 by Jingthing

[Bill Miller]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

OK, you trumped me!

I am totally on board now with seeing that Singha (which is indeed a very standard Thai soda water) is indeed equivalent to seltzer as per the terms used in the O.P.

Congratulations and thank you! 

Lol. No, I was primarily referencing Street Cowboy's post:

"How do you reckon the cost for soda water is much less than beer?
The post about taking  a sample for lab testing struck my funny bone as well.
I tend to respond to several statements at once.
I am a fan of Changand Singha soda water.

[wgdanson]

4 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

As beer is carbonated and most Thai carbonated water is produced by brewers then it is probably safe to assume that it is produced the same way. Water is carbonated under pressure by passing through a mixer

The CO2 in beer is a product of the fermentation process, and is not (normally) added afterwards. But T I T.

[wump]

10 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

The CO2 in beer is a product of the fermentation process, and is not (normally) added afterwards. But T I T.

Not necessarily. Why do they have to add the CO2 when using tap beer?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I totally reject that theory. I've already explained there is an industrial benefit to adding a little salt and simple salt is VERY CHEAP. 

 

I think people need to be careful about using the generic terms for types of water, because what they translate into may be different things in different places.

 

Here in Thailand, the specific local "soda waters" -- which are mainly used as drink mixers for Thais -- are things like Chang and Rock. I think I've looked at the labels on Chang soda water bottles before, and couldn't find any mineral/salt info provided at all/no nutrition labeling. And AFAIK, none of the Thai soda/carbonated water brands seem to come in any large size than 500ml, probably in keeping with their typical Thai use.

 

I've "heard" in the past that Thai soda waters tend to be higher in salt content. That aside, I don't have a very good feeling about the general state of water quality and purity in Thailand, bottled, tap or otherwise.

 

For my drinking, I drink two different imported carbonated waters here -- the Alteza (Spain) 1.5 ltr bottles from Tops and the 2.0 liter Waitrose (UK) "carbonated natural mineral water" bottles from Tops and Central. Both taste clean and fresh to me without any taste of saltiness.

 

The Waitrose water is listed as a mineral water with an ingredients label that lists its various minerals, including a pretty low 12 mg of sodium per liter. The Alteza is listed as "agua con gas" (water with carbonation) and its label in Spanish shows basically no minerals, with a salt content per 100 ml of just 0.0015g.

 

One or both of them are usually listed as being on sale at Tops and/or Central. Typical prices are 75b for the 1.5L Alteza and 109b for the 2L Waitrose.  I never drink sugary sodas, so the carbonated waters are my middle ground between the sodas and flat water.

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[peterb17]

Jingthing 

Sometimes you take the foodie thing a bit far- it’s just highly carbonated water. 

 

Is club soda  an American thing ? To be honest have no idea what that really means . 

[Jingthing]

Hmm.

Maybe there isn't one answer.

Maybe some standard Thai soda waters have the small additions and some don't.

Oh well! 

[Jingthing]

Just now, peterb17 said:

Jingthing 

Sometimes you take the foodie thing a bit far- it’s just highly carbonated water. 

 

Is club soda  an American thing ? To be honest have no idea what that really means . 

It may be but it was defined in the O.P.'s article. 

[wump]

28 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

OK, you trumped me!

I am totally on board now with seeing that Singha (which is indeed a very standard Thai soda water) is indeed equivalent to seltzer as per the terms used in the O.P.

Congratulations and thank you! 

You could have figured this out yourself very easily. Just let a bottle go flat. If it tastes 100% like normal water then it was just carbonated water. If it tastes minerally it probably had bicarbonate added (a silly concept which I never understood).

As for the restaurant pricing, people typically only drink one water with their meal but might usually have more than one beer so that evens out. I personally would not frequent places that charge more than 30 Baht (or 40) Baht for a soda. What a ripoff.

[Jingthing]

I'm not sure I could taste the difference that way. The O.P. article suggests most people can't tell the difference. Obviously, I can the difference between actual mineral water and club soda with a tiny bit of added chemicals. But the topic isn't about mineral water. 

[wump]

In Germany we don't have any brands with bicarbonate. In Australia, they use bicarbonate on all sodas. Why not go to Tops and get a (Singaporian?) Schweppes soda water in the black can? I'm pretty sure you will be able to taste a difference, especially if you let it go flat.

[owenm]

Surprisingly my wife wanted me to buy a pack of 24 soda water from Big C last week for her whisky, and they wouldn't sell it before midday, same as alcohol.. The checkout assistant wanted to wait 2 minutes until 12pm before she was permitted to sell it.. Very weird for a non alcoholic carbonised water.. Has anyone else had the same experience?? No, we didn't purchase any alcohol that day.. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

54 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Maybe there isn't one answer.

Maybe some standard Thai soda waters have the small additions and some don't.

Oh well! 

 

How could you know? I've never seen any nutrition labeling info on any of the Thai soda water bottles.

[Jip99]

8 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

How could you know? I've never seen any nutrition labeling info on any of the Thai soda water bottles.

 

 

But it’s not a secret......

 

 

 

Google is your friend..

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

10 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

Google is your friend..

 

I'm looking at ThaiBev's webpage for their Chang waters and soda water, and see no label info there:

 

http://www.thaibev.com/en08/product.aspx?sublv1gID=153

 

Do you have some other reliable source you're finding?

 

 

 

[Jip99]

9 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I'm looking at ThaiBev's webpage for their Chang waters and soda water, and see no label info there:

 

http://www.thaibev.com/en08/product.aspx?sublv1gID=153

 

Do you have some other reliable source you're finding?

 

 

 

 

I agree that Thai labeling (and website info) is crap.

 

 

 

Yes..posted earlier by someone...Fat Secret or one of the other calorie counting sites..

Edited May 1, 2018 by Jip99

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

20 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

I agree that Thai labeling (and website info) is crap.

Yes..posted earlier by someone...Fat Secret or one of the other calorie counting sites..

 

I saw some of the third party source labeling info for some of the Thai soda waters. But, while it may be accurate, since the info isn't being presented directly by the bottler, it's kind of hard to know just how reliable the info may be and what the source of their info is.

 

 

[StreetCowboy]

2 hours ago, farcanell said:

10 baht per cold bottled soda water seems to be about 25% of the purchase price of around 40 baht for a cold bottle of beer, at 7/11 etc ( if 7/11 etc etc can do it, then paragraph two is largely irrelevant)

 

ergo.... if a business adds on, say 10%, to all products, soda water should still be about 1/4 of the cost of a beer. This fails, when soda water is marked up by 400%, (40 baht) prior to sale..... vs beer, which is marked up by 50% to 100%

 

and then.... an alcohol and sugar drink, vs water.... lots of increased taxable value to include in pricing, if not now, then soon ( not up on thai tax... but I did read something about sugar taxes)

But the cost of serving, rent, washing-up don’t vary with the input cost of the material being served; they are constant per drink served, so a 40b beer might attract 60b of overhead, and so would a 10b soda water.

 

There might be more incentive to mark down the beer, as it gives you a thirst, and it is a more competitive market.

 

The only reason to mark down the soda water would be to avoid exposing your staff to miserable grizzling, but in the long term, it might be better to maintain the margins, reduce the volume and get rid of the cheapskates

[smotherb]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

No. Not talking about bars and if I went I would order beer anyway there.  You don't understand what I am talking about. Not complaining at all about a standard restaurant markup. Complaining about a distorted ratio markup of waters relative to beer.   

 

For example here is a normal mid level restaurant pricing. Nothing to complain it with that.

 

Water 30

Soda Water 40

Tiger 80

 

Here is cynical manipulation also mid level restaurant pricing.

 

Water 55

Soda Water 65

Tiger 80

 

Everyone knows the ratio is out of whack on that just by seeing prices at 7 11.

 

Such prices obviously encourage more people to order beer than really want it because it seems stupid to pay almost as much for water as beer. I don't like being engineered like that.

 

Also not talking about high end and fancy hotel restaurants. People expect to be extorted for everything there. Talking about more everyday level of midrange restaurants.

 

Low end places generally don't play such games.

 

 

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Gee, maybe they would rather sell beer. So they try to discourage customers from ordering the cheapest drink. Or maybe the profit margin on water and beer are pretty similar at those prices.