Is "Farang" Derogatory?

[kokopelli]

I thought farang was a term of endearment, white foreign devil ! 

[Kieran00001]

25 minutes ago, ResandePohm said:

Discriminatory? Under your definition then so is the word Brit, Pom or Limey. That is not to mention calling the French frogs or maybe even worse calling someone from Sweden a Swede. If you are offended by the word Farang then you are ridiculously over sensative

 

Limey and frog are clearly discriminatory, they are ethnic slurs based on stereotypes, the others, including farang, are not.

[transam]

Just now, Kieran00001 said:

 

Limey and frog are clearly discriminatory, they are ethnic slurs based on stereotypes, the others, including farang, are not.

Limey and frog are fun stuff among farangs....

[Kieran00001]

10 minutes ago, transam said:

Limey and frog are fun stuff among farangs....

 

They are certainly not very serious discriminatory words, but there is that element to them, but always used in jest, they are harmless, but farang doesn't even have this undertone, it never did, the offence some take is absurd.

[Rockhopper]

[SplitInfinitive]

I quite like it, as a history buff I support the theory it was brought east from the Crusades many centuries ago where the term "Frank" was used by Saracen fighters to describe the Crusaders... French, German and English alike. 

It was corrupted into terms like Feringee and farang. 

 

[starky]

4 hours ago, marc651 said:

No, the term itself is totally not derogatory.. Just names a group of people. Just like Thai. Or Europeans. Or Eskimos. Or Asians.

 

I feel sorry for those who have a hard time coping with being labeled farang... Must be difficult for them to hear it daily .

 

I don't think bad of it, actually refer to myself as farang in certain situations dealing with Thai.

I wonder if nips and gooks and <deleted> and spics and and even niggers ( apologies to all there) would agree with your view on just names for a group of people. There were all just words too I guess it is how you interpret them. 

[Billy Bloggs]

It can be to an extent like <deleted> was in australia, used for any of the Europeans who came as migrants, they ended up using it themselves and it became useless to use it as derogatory'. I use it myself and find it easier for them to understand, for those that care they ask from what country you come from.

18 hours ago, rdhowell said:

While the Thai may say "Oh, we don't mean any offence, we say it in a nice way", the fact is that by not using skin colour, or nationality, and collectively lumping all western (anglosaxon derived) peoples as 'farang', there is both an implicit and overt tendency to join all three attributes. 

So how are others supposed to know what nationality you are(have it tattooed on ya forehead), if they call me whitey that maybe seen as racist etc etc etc

[starky]

19 minutes ago, Rockhopper said:

So not being politically correct or having a word for it is an excuse? That's fine, then other races or cultures should find no offence if I use centuries old words to describe their particular race or ethnicity then? Particularly if I don't mean it and just slip the odd one in now and again right?

[helloagain]

And we are not being offensive when we say smack face, s*** for brains or small d***.

[starky]

39 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Limey and frog are clearly discriminatory, they are ethnic slurs based on stereotypes, the others, including farang, are not.

By your interpretation only. 

[watcharacters]

47 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Here is what the Oxford English Dictionary says.

farang
 (faˈraɳ)[Thai fa 4-rang 4 white race of people, ad. Frank n. 1; cf. Feringhee.]

 

Excuse me but does the Oxford dictionary define Thai?

 

Something is missing here..

 

That's pretty good.

 

 

Ah..   Wait..    Are you looking at entomology?

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by watcharacters

[starky]

2 hours ago, Berkshire said:

Agree...except "Asian," like "farang," in itself aren't derogatory, regardless of the context.  If one wanted to insult an Asian in America, they'd use terms like "Chink" or "Jap" or "slant-eye"...etc.  Just saying "dumb Asian" or "dumb farang" doesn't make the words Asian or farang derogatory, but they are insults.  It'd be the same as saying "dumb American."  Yes, an insult, but the word American isn't derogatory.     

Yes but a lot of times when Thais say farang the "stupid" is silent

[Sprigger]

They can call me anything they like, as long as they don’t call me late for dinner.

[starky]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

This topic has been revisited many times.   To me- the term Farang' is mostly neutral and describes someone who looks Western. If an adjective is added that is derogatory then that is what the speaker means.   I have had the unpleasant experience of hearing a bank manager refer to all  Farang using the term 'It'- meaning in her opinion we were not even worthy of being human. Was I angry- for sure- but had to keep quiet because my Thai wife was cashing a US Check. That manager was undoubtedly prejudiced towards any Westerner and had no excuse as she was educated and knew better.

 

Most Thai people never really learn that certain things are offensive to others or maybe considered offensive in the context of the Western mindset. Thais often refer to the disabled as 'funny'; the darker skinned as 'ugly';  those with no education as 'stupid'; it is part of the lexicon and they seem to accept it as part of life.

 

It is also interesting to note that at one time- market sellers  called out - 'you' to get your attention and then learned that it was rude;  they then called everyone Western-  'Peter' and then realized not everyone is named Peter; now they use the term Mister or Madam which is a proper way to get one's attention. through experience, they learned what is proper and what is not.

 

We, as Westerners have been taught or learned through experience that certain terms are offensive or can be construed as offensive to others and avoid using the term at least publicly.  Most Thais simply see nothing wrong with using certain terms referring to a person's color; ethnic background or other to describe people. They have never been taught any different.

 

I try and avoid the term Farang as I know some people don't like it and if my family uses it to refer to a Western person- I usually say- haven't you people ever seen a Westerner before-  they very seldom use it any more but  if they do- I know it is used in a neutral manner.

Says the man? that didn't have the balls to address the person who insulted him and take his check and his business elsewhere. Just keep biting down on the anger milksop and let people insult you to your face. I'm sure it is quite healthy.

Edited May 2, 2018 by starky

[Monkeyrobot]

I think the Thai translation  Chocalate man for black people & Kak for an Indian , that’s curry Indian is more offensive. If you look at the Thai language they have different words for different nationalities. I don’t mind being called Farang but on some occasions I am called ATM. That hurts , well hurts my wallet anyway, 

[watcharacters]

7 minutes ago, starky said:

Yes but a lot of times when Thais say farang the "stupid" is silent

 

 

Great

 

That being the case  "forgive them" as they just don't get it.

 

Again, foreigner, or Farang  (falang)  was not used during my 50   plus years outside thailand. 

 

Thais love and I do mean LOVE  using the word.

 

And TVF members can keep defending how Thai's  use the word.

 

Keep smiling guys..   No Po Pem.

 

[AlfonsV]

Derogatory or not depends on the situation, the person, the sound and the adjective possibly used. Also it depends on your perception, your mood, your sensitivity, and your coolness. Sometimes I use it myself more or less in a joking way what eases the communication. Sometimes I listened chatting about me using "falang" to describe me, mainly when not familiar yet, not knowing my first name or nickname. I did not feel it derogatory.

 

Farang (falang) does not mean "foreigner" in general but Caucasian (foreigner). Thai people usually distinguish lager groups: Caucasians,  Africans and "Kaek" which includes people from India, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Middle East and Arabian countries. Because they cannot distinguish Indians from Nepalese, Egyptians from Algerians, Germans from Swiss or Austrian or Dutch. Are you able to distinguish them clearly before they open their mouth?

 

Are you always able to see the difference between Chinese, Korean and Japanese guys at a first glance, between Thais, Indonesians and Filipinos? Or distinguish Spaniards from Portuguese or Italians, Argentinians from Chileans?

 

In contrast, Thais make a difference among Asians, not calling them just Asians. They call them Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, Vietnamese, Burmese, Cambodians, Malaysians, Indonesians, Filipinos. They can better distinguish them as we do because they are neighbours or farer "neighbours". I think that's normal.

 

Racism is a narrow minded attitude and exists everywhere, for instance in the USA, in France, in Germany, in Poland and other European countries, in Africa, in India, and in Japan. Some societies became more sensitive about discrimination _ however, since how many years?

[Kieran00001]

15 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

Excuse me but does the Oxford dictionary define Thai?

 

Something is missing here..

 

That's pretty good.

 

 

Ah..   Wait..    Are you looking at entomology?

 

 

 

 

Of course it defines Thai, it defines every word.

What is missing?

What is good?

No, I was looking at the definition. The ad. Frank, means additionally it is used to mean Frank.

[Kieran00001]

21 minutes ago, starky said:

By your interpretation only. 

 

Nope, that's the consensus, it is not my personal interpretation at all, I just repeated what the dictionary says.

[watcharacters]

2 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Of course it defines Thai, it defines every word.

What is missing?

What is good?

No, I was looking at the definition. The ad. Frank, means additionally it is used to mean Frank.

 

Yes it defines  according to the definition it has.      I respect that.     

 

Do all the other members of THV accept Oxford dictionary as the Holy Grail?

 

I have not head this before but regardless I doubt the definition you give expresses the understanding   of most Thais in terms of their usage of the word.

 

Yes?

 

 

 

 

[DUS]

Usually, I love it when they use the term "farang" in a neutral/cute sounding way ...... it really makes me smile reading so many comments where people moan about and get agitated by the Thais using the term...... 

[mihalis]

Are no it’s not ! Really need to spend your time of positive stuff ! 

[watcharacters]

1 minute ago, mihalis said:

Are no it’s not ! Really need to spend your time of positive stuff ! 

 

Please spend  your time doing something  other than reading and replying on TV.   

 

Village life is boring enough.

 

It will make you feel better about yourself.    

 

Try it for a while..

 

[altcar bob]

Only if you know who its coming from

[Poottrong]

The fact that Thais group people according to race and use a simple single name to refer to them (Farang/White, Jek /Chinese, Kaek-/Indian/Arabic, Dum/Black etc) is not what needs to be explained. What needs to be explained is why people from WEIRD (Western Educated Industrialised Rich Developed) countries no longer do. The fact is that all countries outside the WEIRD ones have slightly derogatory names for the "other" that are easy identifiable to skin colour. Racism/xenophobia is the default state of the human mind. We tend to assume everyone has the same modern WEIRD outlook. They don't. Farang isn't just a handy shorthand, although it is used for that too. I think it's fair to say that for most Thais you are a Farang first and your personality, occupation etc come after that.  That can change overtime according to your relationship but it is surprisingly and to be honest, quite depressingly, sticky.

 

 

[starky]

3 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Would the word "Asian" be derogatory? Or just a reference to ethnicity. 

The majority of times I have heard farang used it does not seem to be in the context of " oh look somchai there is a person with Caucasian features and of European descent" sounds more like " check out this stupid white bloke" which doesn't bother me but I certainly understand how many find it offensive. 

[Thaidream]

30 minutes ago, starky said:

Says the man? that didn't have the balls to address the person who insulted him and take his check and his business elsewhere. Just keep biting down on the anger milksop and let people insult you to your face. I'm sure it is quite healthy.

This topic isn't about how I conduct my business and how I do it isn't any of your business, but since you are attempting to insult me- the reason I did not speak up is that the check in question was a reimbursement check from a US Insurance company for Chemotherapy for my wife and we needed the cash for the next treatment. While I was angry- I did not show it because I wanted my wife to be able to get treatment.

 

I would suggest that from now on before you attempt to lay a guilt trip on someone or  castigate their reputation- you stop and think first and shut the hell up!

[starky]

19 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Nope, that's the consensus, it is not my personal interpretation at all, I just repeated what the dictionary says.

Weeeell not really there is no definitive explanation as to the entomology of farang. One possible explanation I've heard is from the Indian faringi which apparently is a derogatory term and also the example you have described which apparently is not so there isn't a real consensus at all. Which I assume why some find it offensive 

[starky]

2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

This topic isn't about how I conduct my business and how I do it isn't any of your business, but since you are attempting to insult me- the reason I did not speak up is that the check in question was a reimbursement check from a US Insurance company for Chemotherapy for my wife and we needed the cash for the next treatment. While I was angry- I did not show it because I wanted my wife to be able to get treatment.

 

I would suggest that from now on before you attempt to lay a guilt trip on someone or  castigate their reputation- you stop and think first and shut the hell up!

No guilt trip there I just would have gone to another bank.