Best bank account for a farang

[mogandave]

...but it says there's a 1% foreign transaction fee that's not refunded for foreign ATM withdrawals.

I could be wrong (first time for everything) but I believe it states it as a maximum fee.

It has not been my experience that there is any fee, and I check pretty carefully.

[jerry921]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

 

I could be wrong (first time for everything) but I believe it states it as a maximum fee.

It has not been my experience that there is any fee, and I check pretty carefully.

 

Well, here's the page I was looking at: https://www.fidelity.com/cash-management/atm-debit-card

And the last sentence under footnote 1 is: " Please note, there is a foreign transaction fee of one percent that is not waived, which will be included in the amount charged to your account. "

 

So it seems like something is not apples-to-apples here, either I'm looking at something different than what you have, or you are grandfathered in under different rules, or it's the wrong fidelity, or ... sumptin.

 

Although I have schwab and one debit card from a credit union bank account, ultimately I'd like to close the other bank and still have at least one back-up card, plus maybe a credit card, so I'm looking around for options as good as Schwab. Also, the Schwab ATM fee rebate goodness might not last forever.

[madisongy]

12 hours ago, jerry921 said:

I have an IRA at fidelity, so I tried to look up and see if there was a bank account option. I found there are also other "fidelity" banks out there, so wanted to ask if yours was fidelity.com one. I found my way to info about the Fidelity Cash Management Account ATM/Debit card. And it says they refund foreign ATM fees, but it says there's a 1% foreign transaction fee that's not refunded for foreign ATM withdrawals. Do you pay that? Maybe that's applied by Visa. I don't know if I pay that with Schwab.

 

As far as it being picky, it says the fidelity card works at ATMs with "Visa^®, Plus^®, or Star^® logos", which doesn't seem too bad to me. (The Schwab card has Interlink, Plus and MoneyPass logos on the back, but may work at other places, I don't know).

Yeah, I checked Vanguard and TD Ameritrade as well in an attempt to find someone I'm already doing business with.   Vanguard indicates no transaction fee at PNC affiliates,  and TD seems to waive fees for certain customers, but none of them are as absolutely clear as Schwab regarding fees, particularly internationally.   

[jerry921]

A little more on the fidelity card. I found something on this 3rd party info site:

https://www.uscreditcardguide.com/fidelity-visa-gold-check-card-no-atm-fee-wordwide-en/

 

Under disadvantages, #3:

 

It is said on their official website: “Please note, there is a foreign transaction fee of one percent that is not waived, which will be included in the amount charged to your account.” According to the actual experiences, this means you will pay a 1% fee when make purchases, while it is absolutely free to withdraw cash from ATM.

 

So apparently while the language of the website would allow them to collect a 1% FTF on ATM withdrawals, they apparently only collect it when you use the card to buy stuff, squaring with mogandave's actual experience.

 

The same web site also has a page for the schwab card:

https://www.uscreditcardguide.com/charles-schwab-visa-platinum-debit-card-no-atm-fee-wordwide-en/

 

The other point of comparison is the daily limit, $500 on the fidelity card, $1000 on the schwab card, but these can often be adjusted by request after you get the card.

 

I like that web site. So far I haven't found any wrong info on it, and it's useful, but I don't have much experience with it yet. Seems like it would be hard to keep such a site completely current for so many cards at once.

[HampiK]

I am asking myself when they will stop give you back the 220 baht fee from the Thai ATM.

As I can not see why they still reimburse because this will cost the bank a lot of money especially when more and more customers in Thailand using their service.

But good you have options like that.

[mogandave]

I am asking myself when they will stop give you back the 220 baht fee from the Thai ATM.
As I can not see why they still reimburse because this will cost the bank a lot of money especially when more and more customers in Thailand using their service.
But good you have options like that.

It’s not likely anyone is paying attention to individual usage, and as the fees represent a very small chunk of their total costs. I think the cards are designed to give there brokerage customers extra peace of mind when traveling internationally.

That said I believe technically, people not residing in the US qualify for the card, so if one is getting THB500 a day everyday for a year it might raise a flag of some kind.

[jerry921]

Post 2007 quite a few companies seem to be going after individual customer's bank deposits. I won't get off topic on why I think that is, but my main point is there's a lot of competition for your bank account these days. Companies with no ATM network of their own are at a big disadvantage, so what they're doing is directing some/all of the savings they get from not supporting an ATM network (and lots of retail branch offices) back to their customers to cover the customer's costs of using someone else's ATM network. All to make themselves an attractive banking option.

 

If Schwab didn't reimburse ATM fees, I'd certainly not bother with a Schwab bank account. I'd use a bank with an ATM network. Scwhab got some banking business plus a chunk of my retirement savings invested through their brokerage all as a result of this deal.

 

I hope, however, that it doesn't become too popular, or they might cap the reimbursment or otherwise cut back.

[Pib]

I'm sure the "interchange fee" earned by Schwab on each "purchase" their debit card is used for far, far exceeds foreign ATM fees they have to reimbursement.   

 

Don't confuse the "interchange fee" with whatever fee a card-issuing bank/company states up-front that a customer must pay such a 3% (or whatever) for a foreign transaction.   An interchange fee is the underlying fee that a merchant must pay a card-issuer whenever their card is used to pay for a purchase.   So, even cards (debit or credit) that have a zero percent foreign transaction fee still earn an interchange fee for a purchase...the card-issuer earns the fee.  Note:  who earns the interchange fee is reversed for an ATM/counter withdrawal but we won't talk more about that now.

 

Many people still prefer to pay for purchases using their debit card.  When that occurs that debit card issuer like Schwab earns an interchange fee from the merchant....just like what happens when a credit card is used but with different fee schedule.  Debit card issues love it when you use the card to purchase something...it earns them a fee.

 

Schwab is just less fee-evil than most other card-issuing banks/companies....they have just made a different business decision on what fees they charge and what fees they reimburse.

 

https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/payment-method-statistics-1276.php

[mogandave]

I doubt high percentage of Schwab customers buy with debit cards.

I would guess they’re going after the credit card business

[Elkski]

I am trying to figure out my banking and transfer options to get money from US to Thailand when I do get over there.

I have used transferwise and it seems like a low cost way to transfer money.

I am considering a chase Investment account.  Im not sure of the details but it is NFT fees. but maybe 95$ yearly charge.

 

I will try to corner them on  the exchange rate for a pretend transfer and compare to TW and the XE rate.

I transferred some money once and the exchange rate seemed poor.  

I guess from the USA I could transfer from any account to NY Bangkok Bank and then to BB in thailand.  This seems to be a popular bank to use. 

 

But then no more visa cards just the union card?  so I'm still confused..

Just use BB bank fro transfers from USA and then transfer to Krungri and get a visa?

Edited May 15, 2018 by Elkski
union card

[mogandave]

I am trying to figure out my banking and transfer options to get money from US to Thailand when I do get over there.
I have used transferwise and it seems like a low cost way to transfer money.
I am considering a chase Investment account.  Im not sure of the details but it is NFT fees. but maybe 95$ yearly charge.
 
I will try to corner them on  the exchange rate for a pretend transfer and compare to TW and the XE rate.
I transferred some money once and the exchange rate seemed poor.  
I guess from the USA I could transfer from any account to NY Bangkok Bank and then to BB in thailand.  This seems to be a popular bank to use. 
 
But then no more visa cards just the union card?  so I'm still confused..
Just use BB bank fro transfers from USA and then transfer to Krungri and get a visa?

If you’re a Chase customer get their “Sapphire Preferred” visa, and pay for everything you can with it. Specify charge in baht. No foreign transaction fees, great exchange rate, great service, buyer protection and easy online payment.

I think the guys squeaking about the union card at BKK Bank are referring to ATM/Debit cards, not credit cards.

As far as transferring money, the consensus seems to be to the BKK Bank/NY route. I don’t transfer money so I can’t really speak to that.

[asiaexpat]

2 hours ago, Elkski said:

I am trying to figure out my banking and transfer options to get money from US to Thailand when I do get over there.

I have used transferwise and it seems like a low cost way to transfer money.

I am considering a chase Investment account.  Im not sure of the details but it is NFT fees. but maybe 95$ yearly charge.

 

I will try to corner them on  the exchange rate for a pretend transfer and compare to TW and the XE rate.

I transferred some money once and the exchange rate seemed poor.  

I guess from the USA I could transfer from any account to NY Bangkok Bank and then to BB in thailand.  This seems to be a popular bank to use. 

 

But then no more visa cards just the union card?  so I'm still confused..

Just use BB bank fro transfers from USA and then transfer to Krungri and get a visa?

I have accounts at several different Thai banks but Bangkok Bank is my main account. I use the NY branch to transfer from my USA account and have a BBL Visa Debit Card. If you will be in the Bangkok area just ask for a  Be1st Smart Rabbit visa debit card. I then transfer to the other accounts as needed (other banks have better interest rates.)

[Pib]

3 hours ago, Elkski said:

I am trying to figure out my banking and transfer options to get money from US to Thailand when I do get over there.

I have used transferwise and it seems like a low cost way to transfer money.

I am considering a chase Investment account.  Im not sure of the details but it is NFT fees. but maybe 95$ yearly charge.

 

I will try to corner them on  the exchange rate for a pretend transfer and compare to TW and the XE rate.

I transferred some money once and the exchange rate seemed poor.  

I guess from the USA I could transfer from any account to NY Bangkok Bank and then to BB in thailand.  This seems to be a popular bank to use. 

 

But then no more visa cards just the union card?  so I'm still confused..

Just use BB bank fro transfers from USA and then transfer to Krungri and get a visa?

For US folks, since ACH is the primary funds transfer system used in the US (private and govt) and since Bangkok Bank is the "only" Thai bank with ACH "receiving" capability, having a Bangkok Bank account is a good thing.  However, you can not use ACH to send/pull funds from your Bangkok Bank account....it's receive only.

 

The great majority of US banks do not charge an ACH Sending...not to be confused with a Wire or SWIFT transfer where most banks charge very healthy transfer fees.  Each US bank/credit union/investment brokerage/etc., has different and various funds transfer methods, policies, and sending fees...so be sure to pick a bank that provides free ACH Sending fees....that is, the Sending bank do not charge an upfront ACH Sending fee...the great majority do not; but some do.  Then doing an ACH transfer using the Bangkok Bank New York branch routing number (you do not need an account with the NY branch to use their routing number) and you in-Thailand Bangkok Bank account number allow you to transfer which incur "only" the Bankgok Bank transfer fees. 

 

The two separate fees Bangkok Bank charges is their NY branch ACH flow-thru fee which is a sliding scare fee  shown in the middle column below and their in-Thailand branch receiving fee of 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max).   See chart at the bottom of this post.  Say you send $100.01 to $2000...the fee would be $5 plus Bt200 (approx $6.25) for a total of $11.25.   Send $10,000...the fee would be $10 plus Bt500 (approx $15.62) for a total of $25.62.  Send $40,000...total fees would still be $25.62.   The exchange rate you receive is the their "TT Buying Rate" used for incoming foreign transfers.  So when sending money be sure to take in consideration the sliding scale/min-max percentage trigger points because say you send exactly $2000...total fees would be $11.25...but sending one penny more of $2,000.01 and the total fees would be $16.25 because right at $2,000.01 on the NY sliding scale fee the fee has a $5 upward jump.  

 

Another important point is if you receive a monthly govt benefit payment like social security pension, military/civil service pension, VA payment, etc., that the govt use the ACH transfer system which means you payment can flow to Bangkok Bank just like any other US bank.  No other Thai bank has that capability....no other. 

 

However, to receive these govt payments you will need a Bangkok Bank Special Direct Deposit account which doesn't come with a debit card and has a couple other restrictions to protect against fraudulent activity...basically you need to physically go to any Bangkok Bank branch to withdraw/transfer from your Direct Deposit account...but this is really a separate subject that is explained at the Bangkok Bank website. 

 

I have both regular Bangkok Bank savings accounts with debit card and ibanking and also their Direct Deposit account...from your Bangkok Bank ibanking you can see and transfer "into" that direct deposit account but to withdraw/transfer "from" you must physically visit any branch.   

 

There are several semi-recent threads/posts which compare Transferwise (and similar type money transfer companies)  USD transfers to using the Bangkok Bank ACH transfer route.  I've priced it out...others have to....but for "USD", repeat, USD since Transferwise charges approx 1% of the transfer amount for USD that fee structure plus little better exchange rate usually still beats the Bangkok Bank ACH transfer method for amounts of a couple of thousand dollars or less; but for higher amounts...more than a few thousand... the Bangkok Bank method is better in terms of total baht hitting your account after all the exchange rate "and" fee dust settles. 

 

Now for people who transfer Euro or GBP with Transferwise it works out better for them since the Transferwise percentage fee is lower for Euro and GBP.  That's primarily why you see European folks generally recommending Transferwise over their fee-evil banks.  Plus with Transferwise if you want have your govt pension or civilian pension to automatically go to them you can't do that as Transferwise is pretty much a log-on and manually initiated/fund/transfer funds system. 

 

So, other than the exchange rate and fees, a person needs to also consider other factors such as ease of use, speed of transfer, can I do Direct Deposit, can I do this, can I do that, etc.  Each person will place a different weight on each factor.   The Bangkok Bank integration with the US ACH funds transfer system is a definite advantage, good thing for folks transferring funds from their US bank, for Direct Deposit purposes, just for ad-hoc transfers.   

 

This is not to imply you wouldn't want to also have other Thai bank accounts because every bank has some advantages and disadvantages in their products and services.  Like I also have a Krungsri Bank account and Visa debit card because of their excellent Mee Tai Dai savings account that basically pays higher fixed account interest rates, comes with a Visa card, has ibanking, etc.  Like in many cases, in your home country or any country like Thailand, to get the best all-around bank setup for yourself you many need accounts at multiple banks.  But for me, O consider Bangkok Bank my primary bank for my day-to-day Thai banking and Krungsri Bank my secondary bank where I keep my big money due to the higher interest rate given by their special Mee Tai Dai account. 

See This Bankgok Bank Webpage for More Info Regarding Transfers from US to Thailand

 

Edited May 16, 2018 by Pib

[jerry921]

Great post, Pib.

 

It all depends on your spending needs & habits. Some people prefer to pay for as much as they can at retail using plastic. Others are more focused on getting cash in Baht and paying for things using that. The discussion of the fees for ATM cards is mostly about getting cash, not using the ATM cards to pay for things directly - because you can avoid all fees and get a very good exchange rate with the right ATM card, but that same card (e.g. schwab) may charge an interchange fee if you buy something with it (using it as a debit card instead of an ATM card).

 

mogandave's suggest is great for you if you are a pay-with-plastic type and prefer credit cards to debit cards. This reduces your need to transfer cash to thailand, you're paying direct from the US. Dunno about sapphire, but depending on the card you can earn rewards that end up covering the annual card fees and then some.

 

Using ATM cards works well for getting cash in amounts less than $500 or $1000 at a time (depending on the card and your US bank's daily ATM limit). This is good for pocket money, but in Thailand few people pay utility bills or rent with cash. You can get cash and then deposit it right back to a Thai bank account using the same ATM and then pay bills from that account, but you might have to visit the ATM a few days each month just to move enough money. For some people the fee savings is worth it, for others it's way too much hassle.

 

More than the ATM limit and transferwise looks best, up to the point where it becomes more expensive than ACH. You could do transferwise to move money for rent & utilities to a Thai bank account, but get pocket-money cash using a fee-refunding ATM card.

 

More than a couple thousand, as Pib says, then ACH to bangkok bank is better. Depending on your lifestyle, maybe what you need is one of these a month to cover everything, and a Thai bank ATM card to siphon a little spending cash off your monthly transfers.

 

For large amounts, like 800k baht for the retirement extension account, or really large amounts like buying a condo with cash, you'll probably want to use SWIFT (and pay the hefty fee) in order to generate the paperwork you'll need someday if you want to get the money back out of Thailand. It's only once, and the extra security associated with SWIFT is worth something too.

 

ppl please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[madisongy]

Great information Pib and Jerry921. 

 

I'll likely burn through most of my 800k during my final year in Thailand.

 

Off topic a bit, but to Morgandave's point, I love the Chase Sapphire Reserve card.   It's $450/yr, but they kick back $300 as a travel allowance, no intl transaction fees, it includes a special Priorty Pass that allows unlimited guests (I took six people into the lounges on a recent Phuket trip), travel insurance, $100 Global Entry allowance.....and to top that all off, I got 100,000 points for signing up last year.  (I think it's 50,000 now).   It's been so far and away superior to the US issued Citi card as I've never had one single issue using it, ,,,,,,whereas Citi has blocked their card a number of times for completely nonsensical reasons.