Experts say Thailand not ready for same-sex marriage, but partnership recognition likely

[yellowboat]

13 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I have always found that one of Thailand's great strengths and attractions is a 'live and let live' attitude towards personal matters; what other country has a national beauty pageant for ladyboys and/or has a good chuckle at the 'beauties' who show up for the draft?

 

This tolerance is a good thing; it would be a shame if it was ruined by God-botherers/morality-crusaders as in so many other countries.

 

Letting gay people get married harms no one. And if something harms no one, what is the justification for not doing it?

 

Lead the way Thailand.

 

As you said, this country has tolerance differing social groups.  It is amazing how it is so normal in the streets of Thailand, but somewhere in the halls of power, you have elites clutching their wet blankets.  They should have been one of the first to legalize whoever wants to marry whomever.   It is amazing that this is even an issue in this country.   LoS&D never seems ceases to amaze. 

[Eligius]

1 minute ago, yellowboat said:

As you said, this country has tolerance differing social groups.  It is amazing how it is so normal in the streets of Thailand, but somewhere in the halls of power, you have elites clutching their wet blankets.  They should have been one of the first to legalize whoever wants to marry whomever.   It is amazing that this is even an issue in this country.   LoS&D never seems ceases to amaze. 

Completely agree with you, Yellowboat. Yes, it is amazing, isn't it, that Thailand - which has probably more gays and transgender people per square mile than any other country on earth - is not leading the world in giving full civil rights to such persons. As you say, it is these hypocritical old dinosaurs who run Thailand (into the ground) who are blocking civil progress and justice. 

 

Thailand could have, for once in its lifetime, a really high and good reputation across the world as a bastion of enlightened civil rights for gay+ people.  Instead, the 'leaders' of this country remain stuck in the Middle Ages. What a great shame!

[jimster]

2 hours ago, welovethailand said:

Who says Thailand is far behind in this "confusion"?

See this  video, just the 1st minute:

 

I've been following this guy for quite a while. He's right. Fluoridated milk in schools - what a stupid idea. At least Thailand doesn't have fluoridated tap water so not everyone is force medicated with this poison (unlike neighboring Malaysia and Singapore).

 

Along with publications setting the framework for acceptance and tolerance of same sex relationships and gays/lesbians/bisexuals/transsexuals in the 1980s, the reason for the huge number of LGBTQ individuals in Thailand is largely due to environmental factors that apply specifically to Thailand (fluoridated milk in schools is one but there are many others). Genetic factors may also play a part in synergy with the environmental ones. You'll probably find that if you go back 50-60 years (about 2 generations) there were as few gays and lesbians in Thailand back then than in the west. So all of this demographic change has only occurred in the past 1-2 generations. There are surveys which suggest that at least 1 in 4 men living in Bangkok are gay. I have also noticed that there are far more transvestites (ladyboys), lesbians and tom boys in Thailand than in any country in the world I've ever been to by far. Most of my past/present Thai female partners have male siblings who are gay. Just the way it is in Thailand.

 

Not that there's anything wrong with any of this.

 

Your personal preferences are fine with me as long as they don't infringe on my personal rights.

 

Therefore, I don't see anything wrong with gay marriage (up to you to choose who you want to marry) - Thailand will likely be forced to recognize it eventually. I give it around 10 years or so.

[jimster]

1 minute ago, Eligius said:

Completely agree with you, Yellowboat. Yes, it is amazing, isn't it, that Thailand - which has probably more gays and transgender people per square mile than any other country on earth - is not leading the world in giving full civil rights to such persons. As you say, it is these hypocritical old dinosaurs who run Thailand (into the ground) who are blocking civil progress and justice. 

 

Thailand could have, for once in its lifetime, a really high and good reputation across the world as a bastion of enlightened civil rights for gay+ people.  Instead, the 'leaders' of this country remain stuck in the Middle Ages. What a great shame!

I agree, I find it amazing given that Thailand, which has by far the highest proportion of LGBTQ individuals of any country in the world doesn't want to recognize gay marriage at this time. It will probably be something the UN eventually forces on Thailand but not just yet. I give it around a decade or so before it does happen.

[greenchair]

The gay community is so confused. They cant even sort out what they want to call themselves.It's really their own business. They understand each, have their own language, own customs and own community. The truth is the gay community do not want the het community down at their hangouts trying to mingle and pretend we are the same. The gays really need partnership laws that are specific for their needs. Remember though, if they want to fit in the mainstream, it means following certain social norms that the rest of us have to follow. 

Man boy relationships would be out. Promiscuity nope, no more. Dressing up in provocative clothing and parading down the street with whips and chains, UM, I'd be arrested. Orgies, free sex, porn, sex in public toilets, it's all got to go. 

Welcome to civilized life and marriage. 

 

[bangrak]

5 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

Who are those self appointed misguided so called EXPERTS?

Indeed 'sawadee1947', and 'experts'in what...

[greenchair]

7 minutes ago, jimster said:

I've been following this guy for quite a while. He's right. Fluoridated milk in schools - what a stupid idea. At least Thailand doesn't have fluoridated tap water so not everyone is force medicated with this poison (unlike neighboring Malaysia and Singapore).

 

Along with publications setting the framework for acceptance and tolerance of same sex relationships and gays/lesbians/bisexuals/transsexuals in the 1980s, the reason for the huge number of LGBTQ individuals in Thailand is largely due to environmental factors that apply specifically to Thailand (fluoridated milk in schools is one but there are many others). Genetic factors may also play a part in synergy with the environmental ones. You'll probably find that if you go back 50-60 years (about 2 generations) there were as few gays and lesbians in Thailand back then than in the west. So all of this demographic change has only occurred in the past 1-2 generations. There are surveys which suggest that at least 1 in 4 men living in Bangkok are gay. I have also noticed that there are far more transvestites (ladyboys), lesbians and tom boys in Thailand than in any country in the world I've ever been to by far. Most of my past/present Thai female partners have male siblings who are gay. Just the way it is in Thailand.

 

Not that there's anything wrong with any of this.

 

Your personal preferences are fine with me as long as they don't infringe on my personal rights.

 

Therefore, I don't see anything wrong with gay marriage (up to you to choose who you want to marry) - Thailand will likely be forced to recognize it eventually. I give it around 10 years or so.

It's interesting that you say 50 or 60 years ago there were few gays in Thailand. And now 1 in 4 males are gay. Because 50 or 60 years ago, many foreigners started coming here and funnily enough around 1 in 4 boys are sexually abused by and older male before they are 15 years of age. 

Just an observation. 

[jimster]

1 minute ago, greenchair said:

It's interesting that you say 50 or 60 years ago there were few gays in Thailand. And now 1 in 4 males are gay. Because 50 or 60 years ago, many foreigners started coming here and funnily enough around 1 in 4 boys are sexually abused by and older male before they are 15 years of age. 

Just an observation. 

OK I'm not exactly sure about the number of years, but I have been told that it was only after around that time that there was a vast increase in the number of gays/homosexuals in Thailand. I also realize that time period coincides with the Vietnam war and American/allied soldiers coming to Thailand.

[poohy]

Thailand has cacophony of sexual genders

Gays transgenders lady boys Toms and some God knows what!........ more than any country on the planet

 

why wont the old guard wont recognize

probably face the thing!!

[Bluespunk]

13 minutes ago, greenchair said:

It's interesting that you say 50 or 60 years ago there were few gays in Thailand. And now 1 in 4 males are gay. Because 50 or 60 years ago, many foreigners started coming here and funnily enough around 1 in 4 boys are sexually abused by and older male before they are 15 years of age. 

Just an observation. 

That comment is more than an observation. 

 

It’s a lot nastier than that. 

[greenchair]

3 hours ago, welovethailand said:

Who says Thailand is far behind in this "confusion"?

See this  video, just the 1st minute:

 

That was really interesting 

[greenchair]

12 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

That comment is more than an observation. 

 

It’s a lot nastier than that. 

Sometimes the truth hurts. 

But it really is about time the use of the word boy when referring to male male or female masculine, such as tomboy, ladyboy , man boy love, is removed from the gay community vocabulary if they want to get married and live a traditional married life. They should not be referred to as ladyboys, tomboys, or man boy partner. 

The correct term is ladyman, Tom woman and certainly should be man man relationship. 

Since everyone wants to be politically correct these days. 

[greenchair]

21 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

That comment is more than an observation. 

 

It’s a lot nastier than that. 

UM, what is nasty about that. Those are the facts. 

[Bluespunk]

13 minutes ago, greenchair said:

Sometimes the truth hurts. 

But it really is about time the use of the word boy when referring to male male or female masculine, such as tomboy, ladyboy , man boy love, is removed from the gay community vocabulary if they want to get married and live a traditional married life. They should not be referred to as ladyboys, tomboys, or man boy partner. 

The correct term is ladyman, Tom woman and certainly should be man man relationship. 

Since everyone wants to be politically correct these days. 

The truth can hurt. 

 

So can misrepresentations of it.  

 

As for marriage, check the dictionary definition of what it means. 

 

The world has moved on. 

Edited May 5, 2018 by Bluespunk

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, greenchair said:

UM, what is nasty about that. Those are the facts. 

The implication of what you are saying is not based in facts. 

[greenchair]

38 minutes ago, jimster said:

OK I'm not exactly sure about the number of years, but I have been told that it was only after around that time that there was a vast increase in the number of gays/homosexuals in Thailand. I also realize that time period coincides with the Vietnam war and American/allied soldiers coming to Thailand.

That's right. 

[greenchair]

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

The implication of what you are saying is not based in facts. 

60 years ago was the Vietnam war. 

1 in 4 boys are sexually abused by an older person. 

20 years ago when I first came here, it was not unusual to see foreigners openly displaying effection and walking around with young boys. Finally they passed a law that made it illegal to sex boys under 18 in line with the law that protected females. Then, they put notices on all the guest house front desks at Koh San banning foreigners taking boys up to their rooms. It used to be rampant. I've not seen those notices for many years. I support gay rights. I understand the need for more rights. 

I am against the promotion of homosexuality to children. Whether that be in the schools or in the homes. 

[Bluespunk]

13 minutes ago, greenchair said:

60 years ago was the Vietnam war. 

1 in 4 boys are sexually abused by an older person. 

20 years ago when I first came here, it was not unusual to see foreigners openly displaying effection and walking around with young boys. Finally they passed a law that made it illegal to sex boys under 18 in line with the law that protected females. Then, they put notices on all the guest house front desks at Koh San banning foreigners taking boys up to their rooms. It used to be rampant. I've not seen those notices for many years. I support gay rights. I understand the need for more rights. 

I am against the promotion of homosexuality to children. Whether that be in the schools or in the homes. 

Peadophiles have sex with young children. 

 

That is not the same as being gay.

 

Gay rights have nothing to do with the actions of paedophiles. 

 

No one promotes any sexual identity in schools. Schools may explain the different orientations, but they don’t promote one over the other. 

 

Though on reflection schools with a religiously based degree of bias probably preach a less tolerant view. 

 

Thankfully I've never worked in those. A religious schooling as a child was enough for me. 

Edited May 5, 2018 by Bluespunk

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Marriage is a contract between consenting persons, sponsored by the state. It comes with rights and responsibilities. Laws preventing “gay marriage” are backward and pure discrimination.

[greenchair]

21 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Peadophiles have sex with young children. 

 

That is not the same as being gay.

 

Gay rights have nothing to do with the actions of paedophiles. 

 

No one promotes any sexual identity in schools. Schools may explain the different orientations, but they don’t promote one over the other. 

 

Though on reflection schools with a religiously based degree of bias probably preach a less tolerant view. 

 

Thankfully I've never worked in those. A religious schooling as a child was enough for me. 

All the gays I have met were abused. So if I met one that wasn't, I might agree that peodophylia has not effected a person to be gay. Religion was removed from schools because many people don't see the need for religious studies to be forced on their kids. most of the Christian groups have their own way of life. They don't impose their values on us, and we don't impose our values on them. I don't want the gay values imposed on my child at school. Nowadays religion is rarely mentioned in the news. I don't have a need to concern myself with religious groups and as you don't want religion pushed on you, I also don't want the LGBTIQQ mumbo jumbo pushed on my family. And how much does my child have to endure. Is it fair to only teach about man loves boy. Do we then have to teach about transgender and then transvestite and then there's the sadist group. And what about people that like to dress up as babies.and to be fair we should add tolerance of drug addicts, and how to love fat people.  they are all people with their own values that want to be accepted. A civil partnership with additional laws to increase rights is sufficient. Visa rights would be a great next step. 

[greenchair]

27 minutes ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

Marriage is a contract between consenting persons, sponsored by the state. It comes with rights and responsibilities. Laws preventing “gay marriage” are backward and pure discrimination.

What are the rights that you are denied by having a civil union? ?

[Bluespunk]

9 minutes ago, greenchair said:

All the gays I have met were abused. So if I met one that wasn't, I might agree that peodophylia has not effected a person to be gay. Religion was removed from schools because many people don't see the need for religious studies to be forced on their kids. most of the Christian groups have their own way of life. They don't impose their values on us, and we don't impose our values on them. I don't want the gay values imposed on my child at school. Nowadays religion is rarely mentioned in the news. I don't have a need to concern myself with religious groups and as you don't want religion pushed on you, I also don't want the LGBTIQQ mumbo jumbo pushed on my family. And how much does my child have to endure. Is it fair to only teach about man loves boy. Do we then have to teach about transgender and then transvestite and then there's the sadist group. And what about people that like to dress up as babies.and to be fair we should add tolerance of drug addicts, and how to love fat people.  they are all people with their own values that want to be accepted. A civil partnership with additional laws to increase rights is sufficient. Visa rights would be a great next step. 

No one imposes sexual orientation on children in school. They are explained. 

 

I believe all religions should be studied in schools in order to help children understand them. It doesn’t need to be in depth but just a basic understanding of what they are. 

 

Not taught as a faith but studied. 

 

Your views on the consequences of sexual abuse are junk science at its worst. 

Edited May 5, 2018 by Bluespunk

[Chris Lawrence]

16 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Meanwhile, Vitit Muntarbhorn, a lecturer in the Faculty of Law at Chulalongkorn University reflected on the international and domestic trends toward legalising same-sex marriage. It is more likely that Thailand will start with registering the life partnerships of same-sex couples, rather than amend the Civil Code to fully legalise same sex marriage, he said. That is because allowing life-partnership registration would have less impact on religious issues, he said, as it will not touch on the issues of having a child.

This guy has big blinkers on. They have children as they see themselves as a family unit.

[Chris Lawrence]

1 hour ago, greenchair said:

60 years ago was the Vietnam war. 

1 in 4 boys are sexually abused by an older person. 

20 years ago when I first came here, it was not unusual to see foreigners openly displaying effection and walking around with young boys. Finally they passed a law that made it illegal to sex boys under 18 in line with the law that protected females. Then, they put notices on all the guest house front desks at Koh San banning foreigners taking boys up to their rooms. It used to be rampant. I've not seen those notices for many years. I support gay rights. I understand the need for more rights. 

I am against the promotion of homosexuality to children. Whether that be in the schools or in the homes. 

If your grandchild said I am gay, would you love them?

[Jingthing]

What are the rights that you are denied by having a civil union? ?

That depends on the exact structure of a specific nation's civil union laws if any. As yet Thailand lacks both marriage equality and civil unions. But you knew that already.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jingthing]

All the gays I have met were abused. So if I met one that wasn't, I might agree that peodophylia has not effected a person to be gay. Religion was removed from schools because many people don't see the need for religious studies to be forced on their kids. most of the Christian groups have their own way of life. They don't impose their values on us, and we don't impose our values on them. I don't want the gay values imposed on my child at school. Nowadays religion is rarely mentioned in the news. I don't have a need to concern myself with religious groups and as you don't want religion pushed on you, I also don't want the LGBTIQQ mumbo jumbo pushed on my family. And how much does my child have to endure. Is it fair to only teach about man loves boy. Do we then have to teach about transgender and then transvestite and then there's the sadist group. And what about people that like to dress up as babies.and to be fair we should add tolerance of drug addicts, and how to love fat people.  they are all people with their own values that want to be accepted. A civil partnership with additional laws to increase rights is sufficient. Visa rights would be a great next step. 

The vast majority of gays that I have met were not sexually abused as children. I also was not. I have met too many gay people that were psychologically abused by ignorant homophobic parents.

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[SABloke]

17 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

maybe the foreigner would be entitled to Thai nationality

as female foreigners are

Male foreigners are also entitled to Thai citizenship.  But who needs facts anyway...

[chickenslegs]

3 hours ago, jimster said:

OK I'm not exactly sure about the number of years, but I have been told that it was only after around that time that there was a vast increase in the number of gays/homosexuals in Thailand. I also realize that time period coincides with the Vietnam war and American/allied soldiers coming to Thailand.

 

Britain experienced the same increase in gays/homosexuals when the Americans sent vast numbers of soldiers, sailors and airmen to assist in WWII.

 

No, really, it's true - all those stories about GI's shagging our women are just part of the gay conspiracy.

 

Edited May 5, 2018 by chickenslegs
Had to add an emoticon-just in case anyone thinks I'm serious.

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

What are the rights that you are denied by having a civil union? ?

It is a distinction without a difference.

What is the purpose of calling a legal contract between two men or two a civil union and not marriage? And before somebody answers about Gays destroying the institute of “marriage” heteros have been doing a great job of it. There is no “god” anyway and many old practices and definitions are backward and should be discarded anyway.

[greenchair]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

That depends on the exact structure of a specific nation's civil union laws if any. As yet Thailand lacks both marriage equality and civil unions. But you knew that already.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

And they are addressing that issue by providing a legally binding civil union. And still everyone complains. It has to be marriage apparently. Why does it have to be marriage. ? What is the point that you are trying to make.