Trump back in step with NRA after doubts over Parkland shooting

[rooster59]

Trump back in step with NRA after doubts over Parkland shooting

By Jeff Mason and Daniel Trotta

 

U.S. President Donald Trump exits Marine One as he arrives to board Air Force One to head to the National Rifle Association (NRA) convention in Dallas from Joint Base Andrews in Maryland, U.S., May 4, 2018. REUTERS/Carlos Barria

 

DALLAS (Reuters) - President Donald Trump enthusiastically embraced the National Rifle Association on Friday, vowing not to tighten U.S. firearms laws despite suggesting after a Florida school shooting that he would take on the powerful gun-rights group.

 

At the NRA's annual convention in Dallas, Trump called again for arming teachers and increasing school security to head off future mass shootings like the one in Parkland, Florida in February that killed 17 people. Such measures are supported by the NRA.

 

With Republican control of the U.S. Congress up for grabs in November's midterm elections, Trump used the NRA platform to return to rhetoric he used in 2016 to excite pro-gun voters, warning that Democrats are determined to take away Americans' guns.

 

Trump made no mention of gun-control proposals he tentatively floated in the past, such as raising the age limit for buying rifles. The NRA opposes that and other limits on gun sales as a violation of the right to gun ownership under the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

 

Democratic lawmakers generally support tighter gun laws, but specific proposals that they favor, such as universal background checks and a ban on military-style "assault" rifles, would not alter the Second Amendment.

 

"Your Second Amendment rights are under siege. But they will never, ever be under siege as long as I'm your president," Trump told the cheering crowd. "We've got to get Republicans elected."

 

"The one thing that stands between Americans and the elimination of our Second Amendment rights has been conservatives in Congress," he said.

 

The Parkland massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School on Feb. 14 seemed to have marked a turning point in America's long-running gun debate, sparking a youth-led movement for tighter gun controls.

 

Days after the shooting, Trump promised action on gun regulation and at a gathering of state officials, he said of the NRA: "We have to fight them every once in a while."

 

But since then, no major new federal gun controls have been imposed, although the administration is pursuing a proposed regulatory ban on "bump stocks," which enable a semi-automatic rifle to fire a steady stream of bullets. The devices were used in an October 2017 mass shooting in Las Vegas that killed 59 people. [L1N1SA1D2]

 

"I’m not happy with the bump stock issue, but overall I’m very happy with him. Best president yet," said Florida accountant Richard Brinkman, 62, who watched Trump's speech.

 

As Trump spoke, shares rose in major gun makers Sturm Ruger & Co <RGR.N> and American Outdoor Brands <AOBC.O>, maker of Smith & Wesson firearms. The shares have climbed since Parkland, which prompted concerns of tighter gun controls. Gun sales typically surge on such concerns after mass shootings.

 

"Our hearts break for every American who has suffered the horrors of this school shooting," Trump said of the Parkland shooting.

RHETORICAL SHIFT

 

Since Parkland, Trump has largely moved his rhetoric back in line with the NRA, which spent $55 million to support him and other Republican candidates in the 2016 elections, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a campaign finance watchdog.

 

A Reuters/Ipsos poll found in March 2018 that 54 percent of adults wanted "strong regulations or restrictions" for firearms. That was up from 39 percent in a similar poll from April 2012.

 

Among Republicans in the poll, 40 percent wanted strong regulations or restrictions, up from 22 percent in April 2012.

 

Trump met with NRA officials privately at the White House twice in February as he mulled policy responses to the shooting.

 

He initially expressed support for measures that would extend the background check system to all gun purchases, raise the age limit for buying rifles, and seize guns temporarily from people reported to be dangerous.

 

Trump has since endorsed more modest proposals, such as legislation aimed at providing more data for the background check system. He did not endorse closing a loophole in existing law that would require background checks for guns bought at guns shows or sales arranged over the internet.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-05-05

[underlordcthulhu]

Glad to hear it.

I hope the NRA gives David Hogg an award for NRA membership salesman of the year. That little guy really deserves it.

[UncleTouchyFingers]

Good. 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Of course he is, he needs all those Russian campaign finances the NRA have been funneling to him and the GOP.

 

[Expatthailover]

Shouldnt surprise anyone that this president values guns and dollars over the safety of his nation's children and citizenry.

Ironic given his well documented efforts to successfully dodge conscription.

A coward who wont use a firearm in the defence of his nation.

Commander in chief of the armed forces ....a draft dodger. 

 

[JAG]

1 hour ago, Expatthailover said:

Shouldnt surprise anyone that this president values guns and dollars over the safety of his nation's children and citizenry.

Ironic given his well documented efforts to successfully dodge conscription.

A coward who wont use a firearm in the defence of his nation.

Commander in chief of the armed forces ....a draft dodger. 

 

A bit of a slur on a man whose brave battle against the debilitating curse of bone spurs was a source of torment to him and his parents throughout the period in which he was liable to be drafted. 

 

And not a thought of congratulating him on his amazing recovery once the draft ended? Shame on you.

[Basil B]

Quote

 

US President Donald Trump has deplored London's knife crime, at the National Rifle Association's (NRA) meeting.

Lauding US gun rights, the president said he recently read that an unspecified London hospital was "like a war zone for horrible stabbing wounds".

He also told the firearms lobby's conference in Dallas, Texas, that American gun rights were "under siege".

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44007312

 

How thick are those who who actually take in that garbage???

 

You can not walk into a school or shopping mall or hang out of a hotel window and kill hundreds of people with knives, cleavers, machetes or swards, and the gang culture of the UK cities is copycat of America, the "American disease"

[Jingthing]

Entirely predictable.

[MajarTheLion]

5 hours ago, Expatthailover said:

Shouldnt surprise anyone that this president values guns and dollars over the safety of his nation's children and citizenry.

Ironic given his well documented efforts to successfully dodge conscription.

A coward who wont use a firearm in the defence of his nation.

Commander in chief of the armed forces ....a draft dodger. 

 

OK, I'll bite. If gun control advocates care about our children so much, why are they going after *assault weapons*, one of the smallest means of homicide in the US? Let's start there. However, I reserve the right to bring up car accidents for further disputing of your reality you appear to live in.

[MajarTheLion]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Entirely predictable.

And appropriate. Thank God for the NRA.

[RobFord]

24 minutes ago, MajarTheLion said:

And appropriate. Thank God for the NRA.

 

555. Says you and this guy.

[MajarTheLion]

3 minutes ago, RobFord said:

 

555. Says you and this guy.

Osama bin Laden said he loved the NRA?

[Basil B]

Trump says:

Quote

"I recently read a story that in London, which has unbelievably tough gun laws, a once very prestigious hospital right in the middle is like a war zone for horrible stabbing wounds," he said on Friday.

"They don't have guns. They have knives and instead there's blood all over the floors of this hospital.

"They say it's as bad as a military war zone hospital. Knives, knives, knives, knives." He mimed a stabbing motion.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44007312

and he still want to come to London??? 

 

over 50 murders so far in London this year, but at least we are doing something about it, and it is illegal to carry a knife on the streets in the UK without good cause. and people have been sent to prison for doing so, so 50 murders in our capitol on day 125 of 2018, last year one man in the USA murdered 58 people and injured over 500 hundred overs in less than 15 minutes. 

 

Edited May 5, 2018 by Basil B

[UncleTouchyFingers]

1 minute ago, Basil B said:

Trump says:

and he still want to come to London??? 

 

over 50 murders so far in London this year, but at least we are doing something about it, and it is illegal to carry a knife on the streets in the UK without good cause. and people have been sent to prison for doing so, so 50 murders in our capitol on day 125 of 2018, last year one man in the USA murdered 58 people and injured over 500 hundred overs in less than 15 minutes. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44007312

 

Its about 65 murders so far, just in London alone, and not just knives either. Guns too. 

 

And its mind blowing to me that a grown man can not carry a pocket knife in the UK, or risk going to prison, and people are proud of this fact? 

[Jingthing]

24 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Trump says:

and he still want to come to London??? 

 

over 50 murders so far in London this year, but at least we are doing something about it, and it is illegal to carry a knife on the streets in the UK without good cause. and people have been sent to prison for doing so, so 50 murders in our capitol on day 125 of 2018, last year one man in the USA murdered 58 people and injured over 500 hundred overs in less than 15 minutes. 

 

Just because he's scheduled a visit doesn't mean it will actually happen. He may be busy attending mandated court dates with Stormy Daniels. In any case, if he does show, I think that would make a great street theater theme for the protests (knives, blood, and stabbing). 

[UncleTouchyFingers]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

In any case, if he does show, I think that would make a great street theater theme for the protests (knives, blood, and stabbing). 

 

Liberals are such a tolerant and classy bunch. 

[55Jay]

Tough, real world lessons for all those kids. 

 

#1.  Just because you protest en masse doesn't mean you get what you want. 

 

#2.  #1 + a pile of dead teenagers and adults, apparently isn't enough to move the needle and crash through the wall of money and the army of special interests around American politicians. 

 

You've heard about it in school, on the internet, and now you've seen it in action, first hand. 

 

The next generation of liberals and progressives has just been baptized and confirmed.

[Jack100]

The  SHOTUS sorry POTUS  sends his condolences and prayers  - in advance -  to the families   of the victims of the next school shooting

...................

[Basil B]

40 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

Liberals are such a tolerant and classy bunch. 

I have some vintage eggs (circa 2014) to throw at him... 

[Basil B]

1 hour ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

Its about 65 murders so far, just in London alone, and not just knives either. Guns too. 

 

And its mind blowing to me that a grown man can not carry a pocket knife in the UK, or risk going to prison, and people are proud of this fact? 

You just do not get it, the gang violence in the UK is an American export, kids trying to to copy their American cousins, and we are doing something about it.

 

You can carry a pocket knife if you can show good cause.

 

But in the UK we have been doing something about reducing violence...

Quote

United Kingdom
The 1689 Bill of Rights ensured that only Parliament and not the King could restrict the right of the people to bear arms. Over the last 60 years, Parliament has enacted a series of increasingly restrictive laws and acts regarding the possession and use of knives and bladed tools.

The United Kingdom (to include England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland) has one of the most comprehensive set of laws of any developed nation restricting most of the rights to import, purchase, possess, sell, and carry knives.

Ambulance service data gathered in 2009 suggests a slow increase in knife crime incidents in the UK although the overall rate remains low.

 

England and Wales
Restriction of Offensive Weapons Act 1959
The Restriction of Offensive Weapons Act 1959 (amended 1961) (ROWA), prohibits the importation, sale, hire, lending, or gift of certain types of knives in England, Wales, and Scotland as of 13 June 1959 under Section 1:

(1) Any person who manufactures, sells or hires or offers for sale or hire, or exposes or has in his possession for the purpose of sale or hire or lends or gives to any other person—
(a) any knife which has a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in or attached to the handle of the knife, sometimes known as a flick knife or "flick gun"; or
(b) any knife which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force and which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other device, sometimes known as a gravity knife,
shall be guilty of an offence [...]
Subsection 2 also makes it illegal to import knives of this type as of 13 June 1959. The above legislation criminalizes the conduct of the original owner or transferor of an automatic-opening or gravity knife, not the new owner or transferee; in addition, the statute does not criminalize possession of such knives other than possession for the purpose of sale or hire. It is therefore not illegal per se to merely possess such a knife, though the difficulties of acquiring one without violating the statute makes it (almost) impossible to obtain one without either committing or abetting an offence.

 

Criminal Justice Act 1988
The Criminal Justice Act 1988 mainly relates to carrying knives in public places, Section 139 being the most important:

(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, any person who has an article to which this section applies with them in a public place shall be guilty of an offence.
(2) Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except a folding pocketknife.
(3) This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches.
(4) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.
The definition of "public place" is unsettled, but can loosely be defined as anywhere the public have a legitimate right to be whether this access is paid for or not, which could include any populated area within the England and Wales, including one's motor vehicle, which is defined by law as a 'public place' unless parked on private property. In a remote or otherwise unpopulated area, a public place could include: 1) an organised wilderness gathering or event; 2) a National Park; 3) Forestry Commission land that is held open to the public; 4) public footpaths; 5) bridleways; and 6) any area where an individual does not need to ask specific permission to walk, camp, or travel from a landowner.

The phrase "good reason or lawful authority" in Subsection 4 is intended to allow for "common sense" possession of knives, so that it is legal to carry a knife if there is a bona fide reason to do so. Subsection 5 gives some specific examples of bona fide reasons: a knife for use at work (e.g. a chef's knife), as part of a national costume (e.g. a sgian dubh for Scottish Highland dress), or for religious reasons (e.g. a Sikh Kirpan). However, even these specific statutory exceptions have proven unavailing to knife owners at times. It is important to note that "good reason or lawful authority" exceptions may be difficult to establish for those not using a knife in the course of their trade or profession, but merely because the knife is needed in case of emergency or for occasional utility use.

Although English law insists that it is the responsibility of the prosecution to provide evidence proving a crime has been committed, an individual must provide evidence to prove that they had a "good reason or lawful authority" for carrying a knife (if this is the case) upon being detained. While this may appear to be a reversal of the usual burden of proof, technically the prosecution has already proven the case (prima facie) by establishing that a knife was being carried in a public place (see Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 on Knives, etc.; New powers to tackle gun and knife crime)

As the burden of proving "good reason or lawful authority" lies with the defendant, it is likely that an individual detained and searched by the police will need to prove the following (sometimes known as the THIS list): Has THIS person got permission; to use THIS article (knife); for THIS use; on THIS land; and by THIS land owner.

The special exception which exists in the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Sec. 139) for folding knives (pocket knives) with blades less than 3 inches (76mm) long, is another "common sense" measure accepting that some small knives are carried for general utility; This exemption however only applies to folding knives without a locking mechanism. The wording of the Criminal Justice Act does not mention locking and so the definition of "folding pocket knife" was settled through case law. In the Crown Court appeal of Harris v. DPP (1992) and the Court of Appeal case of R. v Deegan (1998) the ruling that 'folding' was intended to mean 'non-locking' was upheld. As the only higher court in England and Wales to the Court of Appeal is the Supreme Court, the only way the decision in R. v. Deegan could be overturned is by a dissenting ruling by the Supreme Court or by Act of Parliament.

 

Offensive Weapons Act 1996
The Offensive Weapons Act 1996 covers the possession of knives within school premises:

(1) Any person who has an article to which section 139 of this Act applies with him on school premises shall be guilty of an offence.
(2) Any person who has an offensive weapon within the meaning of section 1 of the M1 Prevention of Crime Act 1953 with him on school premises shall be guilty of an offence.
(3) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) or (2) above to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article or weapon with him on the premises in question.
(4) (Subsection 4 gives the same specific exceptions as subsection 139(5) with the addition of "for educational purposes". This would appear to imply that all legislation on knives in public applies similarly to school premises, and therefore a folding pocket knife under 3 inches (76mm) in length would be considered legal.)
The Offensive Weapons Act 1996 imposes an age restriction on the sale of knives:

(1) Any person who sells to a person under the age of sixteen years an article to which this section applies shall be guilty of an offence [...]
(2) Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to—
(a) any knife, knife blade or razor blade...
In Scotland, the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 makes it an offence to sell knives to someone under 18 years of age (including any blade, razor blade, any bladed or pointed article, or any item made or adapted for causing personal injury.)

 

Knives Act 1997
The Knives Act 1997 prohibits the sale of combat knives and restricts the marketing of knives as offensive weapons.

Prevention of Crime Act 1953
The Prevention of Crime Act 1953 prohibits the possession in any public place of an offensive weapon without lawful authority or reasonable excuse. The term "offensive weapon" is defined as: "any article made or adapted for use to causing injury to the person, or intended by the person having it with him for such use".

Under the Prevention of Crime Act, otherwise 'exempt' knives carried for "good reason or lawful authority" may be still deemed illegal if authorities conclude the knife is being carried as an "offensive weapon". In recent years, the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 has been reinterpreted by police and public prosecutors, who have persuaded the courts to minimize exceptions to prosecution on the grounds that the defendant had "lawful authority or reasonable excuse" in order to apply the Act to a wide variety of cases. This new approach now includes prosecution of citizens who have admitted carrying a knife for the sole purpose of self-defence (in the eyes of the law, this is presently viewed as an admission that the defendant intends to use the knife as an "offensive weapon", albeit in a defensive manner, and in otherwise justifiable circumstances). While the onus lies on the officer to prove offensive intent, prosecutors and courts have in the past taken the appearance and the marketing of a particular brand of knife into account when considering whether an otherwise legal knife was being carried as an offensive weapon. In addition, the Knives Act 1997 now prohibits the sale of combat knives and restricts the marketing of knives as offensive weapons. A knife which is marketed as "tactical", "military", "special ops", etc. could therefore carry an extra liability.

 

Scotland
In Scotland, the Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995 prevents the carrying of offensive weapons as well as pointed or bladed articles in a public place without lawful authority or reasonable excuse. Defences exist to a charge of possessing a bladed or pointed article in a public place when carried for use at work, as part of a national costume or for religious reasons. As in England and Wales, an exception is allowed for folding pocket knives which have a blade of less than 3 Inches (7.62 cm)

Other relevant Scotland knife legislation includes the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons Act) (Scotland) Order 2005, which bans sword canes, push daggers, butterfly (balisong knives), throwing stars, knives that can defeat metal detectors, and knives disguised as other objects, and the Police, Public Order and Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act 2006, which makes it an offence to sell a knife, knife blade, or bladed or pointed object to a person under eighteen years of age, unless the person is sixteen or older and the knife or blade is "designed for domestic use." In 2007, the passage of the Custodial Sentences and Weapons (Scotland) Act 2007 allowed exemption from criminal liability under section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 for selling a prohibited offensive weapon if the sale was made for purposes of theatrical performances and of rehearsals for such performances, the production of films (as defined in section 5B of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988), or the production of television programmes (as defined in section 405(1) of the Communications Act 2003).

Further legislation in Scotland, known as the Custodial Sentences and Weapons (Scotland) Act 2007, is now in effect (certain parts of this Act came into force on 10 September 2007). This legislation amends the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982 and makes it compulsory to possess a local authority license to sell knives, swords and blades (other than those designed for 'domestic use'), or to sell any sharply pointed or bladed object "which is made or adapted for use for causing injury to the person." Any dealer in non-domestic knives will be required to hold a ‘knife dealer’s licence’.

 

Northern Ireland
The laws restricting knife ownership, use, possession and sale are nearly identical to the laws of Scotland and the rest of the UK, though contained in different acts. In 2008, in response to a surge in public concern over knife-related crimes, Northern Ireland doubled the prison sentence for persons convicted of possessing a knife deemed to be an offensive weapon in a public place to four years' imprisonment, and added an evidential presumption in favour of prosecution for possession of a knife.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knife_legislation

Edited May 5, 2018 by Basil B

[UncleTouchyFingers]

6 minutes ago, Basil B said:

You just do not get it, the gang violence in the UK is an American export, kids trying to to copy their American cousins, and we are doing something about it.

 

You can carry a pocket knife if you can show good cause.

 

But in the UK we have been doing something about reducing violence...

 

 

So a grown man needs permission and proof to carry a pocket knife and this isn't embarrassing at all to you guys? Your own government doesn't trust you with sharp objects <deleted>. 

 

I'm also pretty sure Britains violent crime isn't americas fault. I'm pretty sure we could make a connection between demographics, immigration, and culture and America wouldn't be the connecting factor. 

 

So hundreds of years worth of erosion of your rights to the point that you can't even carry pointy objects without proof and evidence, and people STILL kill each other? That's not really a very good argument as far as I'm concerned. 

[55Jay]

1 hour ago, Basil B said:

You just do not get it, the gang violence in the UK is an American export, kids trying to to copy their American cousins, and we are doing something about it.

Well, I know a few old school British ex-hooligans with extremely short hair, who would take exception with that assertion.   If you insisted, they might smash you with a hammer and kick you with hard toe Doc Martins until mushy peas were spilling out yer ears.  

[Basil B]

37 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

So a grown man needs permission and proof to carry a pocket knife and this isn't embarrassing at all to you guys? Your own government doesn't trust you with sharp objects <deleted>. 

 

I'm also pretty sure Britains violent crime isn't americas fault. I'm pretty sure we could make a connection between demographics, immigration, and culture and America wouldn't be the connecting factor. 

 

So hundreds of years worth of erosion of your rights to the point that you can't even carry pointy objects without proof and evidence, and people STILL kill each other? That's not really a very good argument as far as I'm concerned. 

The law is based on common sense... 

 

At my age I am highly unlikely to be stopped and searched, I often carry a multi tool in my pocket, that if I open it out amongst other things there is a 30mm blade, I have good cause, tools of my trade, but there again I think I might be carrying other things which the police might be interested in, but there again tools of my trade.

 

But kids/younger hanging around in gangs or acting suspiciously are more likely to be searched, the police have for a number of year held back on the number of stop and searches due to complaints they were being racist, things are changing and the Met has announced they will be carrying out a lot more "Intelligence Lead" stop and searcher regardless of ethnic origins.

[Basil B]

10 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

Well, I know a few old school British ex-hooligans with extremely short hair, who would take exception with that assertion.   If you insisted, they might smash you with a hammer and kick you with hard toe Doc Martins until mushy peas were spilling out yer ears.  

But they are not the origins of the gangs that are now going around trying to kill members of rival gangs , those guys are more worried how much hairs they have left and the price of Sterident and incontinence pants.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Basil B

[riclag]

15 hours ago, underlordcthulhu said:

Glad to hear it.

I hope the NRA gives David Hogg an award for NRA membership salesman of the year. That little guy really deserves it.

Guns are as American as Apple pie and John Wayne. Guns rights are in our laws as a Constitutional right..

Americans going to the polls will go knowing the last leader of a regime to take away everyone's guns wasn't a  Russian. Many pictures on the internet of Hogg demonstrating a sick  figure in the  history of the world ..I won't bother to post such a filthy picture.

Sorry about my original post before ,it was a error

 

 

Edited May 5, 2018 by riclag
I thought about i

[55Jay]

18 minutes ago, Basil B said:

But they are not the origins of the gangs that are now going around trying to kill member of rival gangs , those guys are more worried how many hairs they have left and the price of Sterident.

LOL, ok, ok.  Crips, Bloods, and a host of others are insidious and influential.  The police better step up their game.  Sounds like they were being too PC careful and this train has left the station already.  

 

Do you live in Thailand or UK?

[lannarebirth]

1 hour ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

So a grown man needs permission and proof to carry a pocket knife and this isn't embarrassing at all to you guys? Your own government doesn't trust you with sharp objects <deleted>. 

 

 

 

<deleted> indeed. No Leatherman, no Swiss Army Knife. No whittling, No marlinspike for knots. It boggles the mind how effete that society has become.

[Tug]

All this teeth nashing over the 2ond amendant what about the assulat on the first  amendant?no one is going to take your guns away unless you are a nut case.

[rudi49jr]

A crazy president of a gun-crazy country: a match made in heaven. 

[rudi49jr]

3 hours ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

Liberals are such a tolerant and classy bunch. 

Whereas right-wing nutjobs are all law abiding citizens with a penchant for needlepoint and quilting, righ?