Can I elect to enter obtaining a "visa on arrival" with a fresh Non O multiple entry?

[Fat Prophet]

53 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Read your passport. Does it say "non o visa extended to.... (date)" or does it say" permission to stay extented to... (date)"? 

At the top of the stamp for the Extension of Stay is written in hand "Non 'O'" and on the very top of the "IMMIGRATION THAILAND RE-ENTRY PERMIT" is printed "NON-IMM", and in the bottom left hand corner of the Re-Entry Permit itself is printed "Category  NON-IMM", both clearly indicating that they are tied to (and, I think, extend for the purpose of being allowed to remain in Thailand) the related Non-O Visa. 

 

You are playing with semantics -- the reason that it states that "permission to stay is extended to ____" is because the fact is that the passport holder is already in Thailand and, based on his presence in Thailand, is now allowed to stay for an additional 12 months, rather that coming into Thailand within the visa validity period and being allowed to stay for 90 days, which period depends on the date when the passport holder enters Thailand. Note that when you first enter Thailand (or first get the Non-O Visa) the period that you are allowed to remain in Thailand is 90 days. That period is extended by 12 months by the issuance of the Extension of Stay. For the purpose of entering Thailand the Non-O Visa is no longer valid; but for the purpose of remaining in Thailand the Non-O Visa remains valid (the visa has not expired until the 90 day period has lapsed or you leave Thailand, which ever occurs first), which is why, if you want to leave and re-enter Thailand during the Extension of Stay period, you need a Re-entry Permit. 

[puchooay]

2 minutes ago, Fat Prophet said:

At the top of the stamp for the Extension of Stay is written in hand "Non 'O'" and on the very top of the "IMMIGRATION THAILAND RE-ENTRY PERMIT" is printed "NON-IMM", and in the bottom left hand corner of the Re-Entry Permit itself is printed "Category  NON-IMM", both clearly indicating that they are tied to (and, I think, extend for the purpose of being allowed to remain in Thailand) the related Non-O Visa. 

 

You are playing with semantics -- the reason that it states that "permission to stay is extended to ____" is because the fact is that the passport holder is already in Thailand and, based on his presence in Thailand, is now allowed to stay for an additional 12 months, rather that coming into Thailand within the visa validity period and being allowed to stay for 90 days, which period depends on the date when the passport holder enters Thailand. Note that when you first enter Thailand (or first get the Non-O Visa) the period that you are allowed to remain in Thailand is 90 days. That period is extended by 12 months by the issuance of the Extension of Stay. For the purpose of entering Thailand the Non-O Visa is no longer valid; but for the purpose of remaining in Thailand the Non-O Visa remains valid (the visa has not expired until the 90 day period has lapsed or you leave Thailand, which ever occurs first), which is why, if you want to leave and re-enter Thailand during the Extension of Stay period, you need a Re-entry Permit. 

So there is not a "used" stamp on your original "o" visa? Yes, your visa status is non "O" but your visa had expired. 

[Fat Prophet]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

That is not a official immigration website it is one created by a law firm.

Look at the bottom of the page and you will see this "THIS IS NOT THE OFFICIAL WEBSITE OF THE THAI IMMIGRATION NOR CONNECTED TO ANY GOVERNMENT AGENCIES".

This is the real immigration website. https://www.immigration.go.th/index

You are correct; my error. It is, however, informative on how the legal professionals dealing in the area of Thai immigration law view the "extension of stay" of a Non-Immigration "O" Visa. From a practical point, I don't think that it makes much/any difference, but when I receive my Extension of Stay and Re-Entry Permit each year, I think I have (or have the equivalent of) a multiple entry Non-O Visa allowing me to remain in Thailand (with multiple exits and re-entries) for 12 months from the date of issue of the Extension of Stay (or the expiration of the previous Extension of Stay, which ever is later).

 

[Fat Prophet]

Yes, it says "USED". It DOES NOT say "expired". When I enter a country, a single entry visa is "used" and it cannot be used to enter that country again. But the visa remains valid as permission to remain in that country for the time period stated in the visa. One visa that I have in my passport (not Thailand) states: "Good for journey up to _______; Duration of each stay ________." This is the correct statement of the "terms" of the visa -- it may not be used to enter a country beyond the specified date, but once having entered the country the holder may remain in the country for the allowed duration stated in the visa, even if the date by which the holder must have entered the country has passed. BOTH are parts of the visa and, having entered the country by the allowed entry date, the visa remains valid until the date allowed for each visit/stay has passed. And, in Thailand, that period of allowed stay (90 days) in the Non-O visa is extended by the issuance of an Extension of Stay. 

Edited May 9, 2018 by Fat Prophet

[Fat Prophet]

33 minutes ago, puchooay said:

So there is not a "used" stamp on your original "o" visa? Yes, your visa status is non "O" but your visa had expired. 

If my visa has expired, I have no visa -- how can I have a "Visa status?

 

Note (one last time) -- the Non 0 Visa allows me to stay in Thailand for 90 days, and remains valid as a permission to remain in Thailand during that time period. This period is being EXTENDED! This is not a "Permission to Stay" for 12 months; it is an extension of the 90 day period in the Non O Visa by an additional period of 12 months. 

[Fat Prophet]

1 hour ago, puchooay said:

So there is not a "used" stamp on your original "o" visa? Yes, your visa status is non "O" but your visa had expired. 

The following is from an official mfa website (http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15380-Questions-&-Answers-on-Thai-Visa.html):

 

o   I heard that Thailand is a nice place to stay after retirement. Is there any

special kind of visa for retirees?           

 

     A:    Yes, there is special visa called Non-immigrant “O-A” (Long Stay). Foreigners who are

50 years of age or older who wish to stay in Thailand for a long period and do not

have any intention to work in the Kingdom may apply for such visa at the Royal Thai Embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General in their respective country. The holder of

“O-A” visa is allowed to stay in Thailand for 1 year from the date of first entry,

and is also able to apply for an extension of stay afterwards. Please see the qualifications and requirements for application and relevant information in

the website (www.mfa.go.th). (emphasis added)

 

It is not entirely clear, but I think that it favours my interpretation of the Extension of Stay over the other views/opinions stated in this thread above.  Others will no doubt disagree.           

[csabo]

17 hours ago, onera1961 said:

May be he wanted to test TV members' reactions to his imaginary advantage

Maybe he should do that via searching the hundreds of other times this question has been asked and answered. 

Edited May 9, 2018 by csabo

[csabo]

1 hour ago, Fat Prophet said:

Yes, it says "USED". It DOES NOT say "expired".

You say potato... 

[Sheryl]

A visa is permission to enter a country. Unless it is a multi-entry visa, it is void as soon as it has been used. Full stop.

 

Upon entering a country, whether with a visa or a visa exemption, permission to stay is stamped into your passport with a date.  it is this date which can be extended, i.e. the permission to stay period. The visa itself is not extended, it is void now that it has been used.  And, of course, you do nto need a  visa now that you have already entered the country.

 

A re-entry permit allows you to leave the country and come back in, without a visa, within the time period of your current permission to stay.

 

 

 

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

A visa is permission to enter a country. Unless it is a multi-entry visa, it is void as soon as it has been used. Full stop.

 

Not true. As said before it is USED (and can't be re-USED) but is still VALID.

By example you need to be on a VALID non-O to get a Retirement Extension,

and most of time you will be on a USED one, but a VOID one wouldn't work.

[puchooay]

25 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

 

Not true. As said before it is USED (and can't be re-USED) but is still VALID.

By example you need to be on a VALID non-O to get a Retirement Extension,

and most of time you will be on a USED one, but a VOID one wouldn't work.

No. You have to have entered on  Non O. The minute you are stamped entry you visa has gone. You have permission to stay. Your visa status is Non Immigrant. 

 

[ericthai]

14 hours ago, onera1961 said:

For the last time, it is not a visa if extended inside Thailand at the immigration office. It is an extension of stay.

I dont think this will be the last time!!

[Maestro]

From the real immigration website

 

What does the Visa Expiration Date Mean?

The visa expiration date is shown on the visa. Depending on the alien’s nationality, visas can be issued for any number of entries, from as little as one entry to as many as multiple (unlimited) entries, for the same purpose of travel. This generally means the visa is valid, or can be used from the date it is issued until the date it expires, for travel for the same purpose, when the visa is issued for multiple entry. This time period from the visa issuance date to visa expiration date as shown on the visa, is called visa validity. If you travel frequently as a tourist for example, with a multiple entry visa, you do not have to apply for a new visa each time you want to travel to Thailand. The visa validity is the length of time you are permitted to travel to a port-of-entry in Thailand to request permission of the immigration officer to permit you to enter Thailand. The visa does not guarantee entry to Thailand. The Expiration Date for the visa should not be confused with the authorized length of your stay in Thailand, given to you by the immigration officer at port-of-entry. The visa expiration date has nothing to do with the authorized length of your stay in Thailand for any given visit. Each time you arrive at the port-of-entry, an immigration officer decides whether to allow you to enter and how long you can stay. Only the immigration officer has the authority to permit you to enter Thailand.

Source: http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/content/visaxpiredate.html

 

[Maestro]

With the change from rubber stamps for visas to adhesive labels (stickers), the text on the visa changed somewhat but the purpose and procedure remained unchanged.

 

Rubber Stamp

Good for _____ journey(s) to Thailand. This visa must be utilized before _____

 

Sticker

Number of entry _____

Enter before _____

 

Validity period of the visas

Both with the rubber stamp and with the sticker the visa was valid for arriving in Thailand only until the "must be utilized before" or "enter before" date shown on the visa. This date relates in no way to the validity of the period of stay granted by immigration upon entry into Thailand and subsequent extensions, if any, of that period of stay.

[onera1961]

14 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Not true. As said before it is USED (and can't be re-USED) but is still VALID.

How can it be valid if you cannot use it to enter again. The visa is used. It cannot be used to enter Thailand again. A visa is a request to an IO to enter Thailand (or any other country) at a port of entry. The IO decides if permission to enter is granted or not and for how long.

[Crossy]

21 hours ago, Fat Prophet said:

I tried to enter Thailand at the Bangkok airport requesting a 30 day "Visa exempt entry" while also holding a valid Non-O Visa and Multiple Re-entry Permit. My problem was that my Non-O Visa and Multiple Re-entry Permit both expired on the day immediately following my entry into Thailand, so if I entered Thailand on the Non-O Visa and Multiple Re-entry Permit, my allowed stay would have only been 1 day. I was hoping that Immigration would give me a 30 day Visa exempt entry to give me more time to renew my Non-O Visa and Multiple Re-entry Permit, as the following day was a Saturday (and Sunday was Christmas). Three or 4 Immigration officers at the airport looked at my passport (together, not in series) and all flatly refused to give me a Visa exempt entry, saying that I could only enter Thailand on the Non-O Visa and Multiple Re-entry Permit. The response was "You should have planned ahead and renewed your Non-O Visa and Multiple Re-entry Permit before you left Thailand (scolding me). You can renew your Non-O Visa and Multiple Re-entry Permit anytime you want, but after tomorrow you will start paying overstay fees for each day you are in Thailand until you renew your Non-O Visa or leave." With no choice I did what they insisted that I do.

Interesting.

 

I was in a similar situation, entering with 1 day remaining on my re-entry permit (I was actually visiting immigration that day to collect my extension) and the officer asked if I really wanted to be stamped for one day, suggesting that I could get a 30 day visa exemption if I wanted one.

 

Exactly the opposite of your experience.

 

By the way, if you had received a 30 day stamp you would have needed to go through the whole rigmarole of converting it to a non-immigrant stay before you could extend it. The officers may have caused annoyance but they saved you much work and hassle.

 

[ubonjoe]

A off topic and completely irrelevant post has been removed.

[Crossy]

Another off-topic post not relating to Thailand has been removed.

 

Any more off-topic posts will result in a holiday.