Why choose Chinese tourists over the traditional western tourists?

[spidermike007]

It is due to a complete lack of vision, and the fact that Thailand is more of less "owned" by China. The current regime would rarely say no to anything the Chinese ask. And the TAT is obsessed with numbers. It is not about the well being of the average Thai, and never has been. There is no doubt in my mind, that Western tourists bring far more money into the country, than the average Chinese tourist. And most western tourists are not sex-pats, as some here will claim. That is nonsense. We are talking about relatively small numbers. Most are families. Gone are the days of the $2,000 a day, rich Western tourists. Welcome to the $70 a day Chinese tourist.

[yogi100]

10 hours ago, poanoi said:

i lost you there, what may one day lead to pattayas demise ?

 

I do apologise. Perhaps you might understand better if I rephrase what I wrote and you may possibly find me again.

 

It's possible that the Pattaya that for decades has attracted single men looking for sex and romance may one day for various reasons become defunct. In other words the seediness which once attracted punters to Pattaya could possibly lead to it's downfall as the Thai tourism authorities may in the future wish to present a more wholesome Pattaya to the world. 

 

I referred to 'the Pattaya that for decades etc etc' rather than Pattaya in general. And by 'what made Pattaya famous' I was obviously referring to it's well known reputation as a destination for sex tourism.

 

I trust you may now understand more clearly the point I was trying unsuccessfully to make.

[yogi100]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

It is due to a complete lack of vision, and the fact that Thailand is more of less "owned" by China. The current regime would rarely say no to anything the Chinese ask. And the TAT is obsessed with numbers. It is not about the well being of the average Thai, and never has been. There is no doubt in my mind, that Western tourists bring far more money into the country, than the average Chinese tourist. And most western tourists are not sex-pats, as some here will claim. That is nonsense. We are talking about relatively small numbers. Most are families. Gone are the days of the $2,000 a day, rich Western tourists. Welcome to the $70 a day Chinese tourist.

 

Don't you mean $200 a day.

 

Is not $2000 a day in the region of 65,000 baht a day. Surely no one in his right mind nor even someone as rich as Donald Trump could spend that sort of money a day in the LOS.

[moe666]

On 5/14/2018 at 3:32 PM, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

That's right. 

 

Even the so-called zero dollar Chinese spend more than the average sexpat. I see hotels like Centara and Avani full of Chinese tour buses. Let's say they paid 50% (unlikely, but let's say) of the posted price to have those rooms filled, well..... they still spent money and the hotel in return got paying guests, so the hotel will continue to remain operational and pay taxes.

 

Also, the 2 week Chinese tourist will buy "Thai" presents for 200 members of his family, not to mention  friends. You see Big C and other "souvenir" establishments always packed with Chinese especially in the last day. On the other hand, barstool Farang has no friends, so will just buy another beer and drown in sorrow.

 

It is just ridiculous to think that Chinese don't spend money. Heck, I joined a certain Pattaya facebook group just for fun and noticed that they even spend more money on women (and get played).

 

Thailand will be sailing through thanks to Chinese. Only an environmental disaster or a civil war will stop this.

 

From another thread... expect 10 baht to Aussie dollar in 10 years. 

 

 

 

 

What makes you think only barstool farange is the western tourist model. Lots of younger european and america tourist this year and not all a typical backpackers. Many Chinese come but not on a tour but as individual traveler in Chiang Mai they stay about 5 days then back to home. They spend lots of money in Boots and some local businesses. I was at a friends hat shop yesterday and they already had a discount of 20 percent the chinese girl ask if buy two how much discount, my friend replied I already give discount no more. Nothing wrong asking for discount but the Chinese take it to extreme.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

3 minutes ago, moe666 said:

What makes you think only barstool farange is the western tourist model. Lots of younger european and america tourist this year and not all a typical backpackers. Many Chinese come but not on a tour but as individual traveler in Chiang Mai they stay about 5 days then back to home. They spend lots of money in Boots and some local businesses. I was at a friends hat shop yesterday and they already had a discount of 20 percent the chinese girl ask if buy two how much discount, my friend replied I already give discount no more. Nothing wrong asking for discount but the Chinese take it to extreme.

 

So, did your friend make a sale?

[poanoi]

53 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

 

I do apologise. Perhaps you might understand better if I rephrase what I wrote and you may possibly find me again.

 

It's possible that the Pattaya that for decades has attracted single men looking for sex and romance may one day for various reasons become defunct. In other words the seediness which once attracted punters to Pattaya could possibly lead to it's downfall as the Thai tourism authorities may in the future wish to present a more wholesome Pattaya to the world. 

 

I referred to 'the Pattaya that for decades etc etc' rather than Pattaya in general. And by 'what made Pattaya famous' I was obviously referring to it's well known reputation as a destination for sex tourism.

 

I trust you may now understand more clearly the point I was trying unsuccessfully to make.

...so the prostitutes that attracted sex tourists may one day

be the demise of pattaya, is that the irony  ?

[brewsterbudgen]

Just how easy is it for under fifties to stay in Thailand long term if they don't want to get married?

Not easy, unless you can afford Elite. But not relevant to this thread, as it's about Chinese vs Western tourists.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[NoshowJones]

25 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Not easy, unless you can afford Elite. But not relevant to this thread, as it's about Chinese vs Western tourists.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Yes you are right, but it is so easy for topics to go off topic. As for Elite, I would not go down that road as you are getting  nothing back for your 500.000 baht, you are still contributing to the Thai economy and being treated like a criminal with the ridiculous 90 day reporting.

[spidermike007]

22 hours ago, yogi100 said:

 

Don't you mean $200 a day.

 

Is not $2000 a day in the region of 65,000 baht a day. Surely no one in his right mind nor even someone as rich as Donald Trump could spend that sort of money a day in the LOS.

Not true. I knew a number of western tourists who used to come to Samui, when I was living there and spent upwards of $2,000 a day. They spent $1,000 a day on their villas at a five star hotel, and at least $500-800 a day on the restaurants and spas. Plus gifts, high end massage, etc. That was not uncommon. It is now. Those guys have a dozen reasons to pick another country. And many Chinese only spend $50-70 a day. Most are very low budget tourists. Face it, for so many reasons Thailand just does not attract many high end tourists, these days. Concierge service is marginal, wine service is horrendous, english skills are lacking, etc. 

[geriatrickid]

22 hours ago, moe666 said:

What makes you think only barstool farange is the western tourist model. Lots of younger european and america tourist this year and not all a typical backpackers. Many Chinese come but not on a tour but as individual traveler in Chiang Mai they stay about 5 days then back to home. They spend lots of money in Boots and some local businesses. I was at a friends hat shop yesterday and they already had a discount of 20 percent the chinese girl ask if buy two how much discount, my friend replied I already give discount no more. Nothing wrong asking for discount but the Chinese take it to extreme.

Ok, so the  Chinese person asked for an additional reduction. Big whoop. Considering the markup on retail clothing it is not unusual to ask for something. The consumer did not see the value of the item at the  posted price. The merchant said no sale, and that was that. This is called free market trading. No one compels the retailer to sell at the lower price and nothing obliges the consumer to purchase at a price the consumer  believes is too high.

 

In respect to the younger  people you reference, their numbers are nothing special. The demographic has been shrinking over the decades for the simple fact that the millenials don't have the income to pay for fancy  vacations. The Chinese are a growing demographic. They spend money. That's the reality. Get used to it. 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 2:33 PM, seancbk said:

What draconian visa rules are stopping Western visitors?   

 

 

There are none. For most that come on a visa exempt entry there are zero problems. Visa exempt are by far the majority of tourists.

Draconian rules only apply to those that want to live here.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

I knew a number of western tourists who used to come to Samui, when I was living there and spent upwards of $2,000 a day. They spent $1,000 a day on their villas at a five star hotel, and at least $500-800 a day on the restaurants and spas. Plus gifts, high end massage, etc. That was not uncommon.

I would venture that it was "uncommon". While you may know such people, 5* hotels are in the minority in LOS and always have been.

The vast majority of western tourists come on package tours or stay at cheap places.

LOS just does not have the infrastructure to attract 5* tourists, except at exclusive resorts, where they can by pass the normal methods of travel.

[MaeJoMTB]

On 5/14/2018 at 2:33 PM, seancbk said:

What draconian visa rules are stopping Western visitors?   

No problems for tourists, but you need a lot money to stay compared to the locals.

Vietnam, Cambodia and the Philippines, you can rock up and essentially stay forever with no money in your pocket.

(Vietnam, 5 year married visa exemption $40 ....... Philippines, 1 year married visa free)

 

Thailand just ain't that special, and it's become more expensive compared to the other Asian countries.

If I didn't already have a wife and family here, I'd have gone to VN or PI.

Why so many tourists from China? probably because the air fares there/here are the cheapest. 

 

Why does Thailand want Chinese tourists? ..... probably because the people who rule here were originally from Chinese immigrant families.

Edited May 25, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[yogi100]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

Not true. I knew a number of western tourists who used to come to Samui, when I was living there and spent upwards of $2,000 a day. They spent $1,000 a day on their villas at a five star hotel, and at least $500-800 a day on the restaurants and spas. Plus gifts, high end massage, etc. That was not uncommon. It is now. Those guys have a dozen reasons to pick another country. And many Chinese only spend $50-70 a day. Most are very low budget tourists. Face it, for so many reasons Thailand just does not attract many high end tourists, these days. Concierge service is marginal, wine service is horrendous, english skills are lacking, etc. 

 

Of course it's not true how silly of me. There are thousands of these wealthy tourists everywhere in Thailand and every day I meet several of them. My hotel is full of 'em. They fly in on their private jets or arrive in the Gulf of Thailand on their fabulous Sunseeker ocean going yachts.They think absolutely nothing of spending 500 quid on a meal. But as you say the wine situation is terrible and the lack of fluency in English of the locals is an international disgrace.

 

Seriously I think you're either talking out of your rear end, bragging in an attempt to give an impression that you're some sort of high flying billionaire or having a wind up. No one, not a single individual I've ever met in the LOS has that sort of money to spend. If they did they'd be holidaying on the French Riviera or the Bahamas

[newnative]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

Not true. I knew a number of western tourists who used to come to Samui, when I was living there and spent upwards of $2,000 a day. They spent $1,000 a day on their villas at a five star hotel, and at least $500-800 a day on the restaurants and spas. Plus gifts, high end massage, etc. That was not uncommon. It is now. Those guys have a dozen reasons to pick another country. And many Chinese only spend $50-70 a day. Most are very low budget tourists. Face it, for so many reasons Thailand just does not attract many high end tourists, these days. Concierge service is marginal, wine service is horrendous, english skills are lacking, etc. 

       Not quite buying it.  I think the visitor you describe is a quite small segment of the tourist market--and not just for Thailand.  Indeed, are they even tourists if they are renting a villa for $1,000 a day rather than a hotel room and spending their time at spas and getting massages?   Most tourists come to Thailand to tour, to experience and see things--they get a good breakfast at the hotel and then it's out the door to go touring all day and into the evening.  Why spend a fortune on a villa if you aren't going to be there to enjoy it?

     The majority of tourists I would say are more like my 4 sisters who came for 2 weeks.  In Bangkok, we stayed at Centre Point Hotel.  Certainly nice enough; they all had river views, great breakfast buffet, and an ideal location for both the subway and when we used the river.  Even washing machines in the rooms.  Perfect in every way for our needs--and for other tourists, as well, as it was filled with lots of other westerners and Asians doing the tourism thing.   

    The sisters love to shop so on several  evenings we did dinner at Terminal 21and Asiatique.  We ate well at nice restaurants every evening, including wine.  After a long, but enjoyable day touring we were all happy to sit down and relax with that glass of wine, however good or bad the wine service.

      Same drill when we hit Siem Reap.  Good, comfortable hotel in an excellent location with a well-reviewed breakfast buffet.  Touring during the day, dinner at one of the restaurants on Pub Street, then a fun evening walking through all the interesting shops; when we were there it looked like thousands of other tourists were doing the very same thing. 

      And, so it went through our various stops.  This is normal tourism and normal tourists, the bread and butter of the tourist industry.  Spending closer to $200 a day, rather than $2000, and not giving a passing thought to the quality of the wine service, is, and likely will always be, where the big tourist numbers are.   

 

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, yogi100 said:

 

Of course it's not true how silly of me. There are thousands of these wealthy tourists everywhere in Thailand and every day I meet several of them. My hotel is full of 'em. They fly in on their private jets or arrive in the Gulf of Thailand on their fabulous Sunseeker ocean going yachts.They think absolutely nothing of spending 500 quid on a meal. But as you say the wine situation is terrible and the lack of fluency in English of the locals is an international disgrace.

 

Seriously I think you're either talking out of your rear end, bragging in an attempt to give an impression that you're some sort of high flying billionaire or having a wind up. No one, not a single individual I've ever met in the LOS has that sort of money to spend. If they did they'd be holidaying on the French Riviera or the Bahamas

Amusing reply. Reminds me a bit of the people prior to Newton, who used to claim that gravity did not exist. First of all, I have no interest in bragging. What you or any other stranger thinks of me, means less than zero. Second, I do have some wealthy friends. None are billionaires, but a few are centi millionaires. However, none of those friends visited, while I lived on Samui. For your information, there are at least three resorts, like far more, that charge between 20,000 and 70,000 baht per night, for their villas, and there are countless private villas on Samui and Phuket, that charge in excess of 30,000 baht per night. A good meal at one of these hotels is in fact 6,000 baht and up. The fact that you have never met any of the folks who stay there, means very little. They exist. So do those properties, such as the Banyan Tree, the Four Seasons, the Conrad, and several others. My friend who came, arrived with his wife, and his two kids. He told me (I asked) that they vacation twice per year, average two weeks each time, and spend about $70,000 to $100,000 on the trip. He makes $12 million a year in London, so he can afford it. And he wants only the best and is willing to pay for it.

 

However, I believe that the number of these types of tourists have declined over the years, as Thailand has not done a good job of taking care of them, the TAT has done an atrocious job of making sure their trips are as good as they can be, and the services are substandard, so they tend not to return. That was my original point, before we got sidetracked. However, there are thousands of villas in Thailand in that price range, and I seriously doubt they remain empty, as you more or less claim.

 

Banyan Tree pricing, low season-

 

• 130sqm
• Partial Ocean View
• King Bed
• Wifi

Read more

THB30,804.75/ Night

Including Taxes & Fees

View Price Breakdown

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 12:27 PM, newnative said:

not giving a passing thought to the quality of the wine service,

I venture to say that people that actually think a wine service is important will not be visiting Thailand as tourists, or if they came by mistake will not be recommending it to their friends. The wine service is the last thing tourists will dislike about LOS, not at the top of the list.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 2:16 PM, spidermike007 said:

Amusing reply. Reminds me a bit of the people prior to Newton, who used to claim that gravity did not exist. First of all, I have no interest in bragging. What you or any other stranger thinks of me, means less than zero. Second, I do have some wealthy friends. None are billionaires, but a few are centi millionaires. However, none of those friends visited, while I lived on Samui. For your information, there are at least three resorts, like far more, that charge between 20,000 and 70,000 baht per night, for their villas, and there are countless private villas on Samui and Phuket, that charge in excess of 30,000 baht per night. A good meal at one of these hotels is in fact 6,000 baht and up. The fact that you have never met any of the folks who stay there, means very little. They exist. So do those properties, such as the Banyan Tree, the Four Seasons, the Conrad, and several others. My friend who came, arrived with his wife, and his two kids. He told me (I asked) that they vacation twice per year, average two weeks each time, and spend about $70,000 to $100,000 on the trip. He makes $12 million a year in London, so he can afford it. And he wants only the best and is willing to pay for it.

 

However, I believe that the number of these types of tourists have declined over the years, as Thailand has not done a good job of taking care of them, the TAT has done an atrocious job of making sure their trips are as good as they can be, and the services are substandard, so they tend not to return. That was my original point, before we got sidetracked. However, there are thousands of villas in Thailand in that price range, and I seriously doubt they remain empty, as you more or less claim.

 

Banyan Tree pricing, low season-

 

• 130sqm
• Partial Ocean View
• King Bed
• Wifi

Read more

THB30,804.75/ Night

Including Taxes & Fees

View Price Breakdown

Yes, there are very rich people that pay ridiculous rates to be pampered in the style to which they think they are entitled, but they are a tiny minority of the population of the world ( the 1% ) and don't mingle with mere mortals that do make up the vast majority of tourists in LOS.

 

One thing that they should remember though, is that their lifestyle is only possible because they exploit people, and "it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter heaven".

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 11:17 AM, MaeJoMTB said:

Why so many tourists from China? probably because the air fares there/here are the cheapest. 

That's like my reason for ending up in LOS. It is the closest place to Saudi where one can have fun. If not for that, and the fact that Manila airport is reportedly horrible to use, I'd be living in the Phillipines.

[MaeJoMTB]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's like my reason for ending up in LOS. It is the closest place to Saudi where one can have fun. If not for that, and the fact that Manila airport is reportedly horrible to use, I'd be living in the Phillipines.

Manila airport is fine.

I came here because the airfare UK to BK was cheap ...... 220gbp return at the time (11,000bht).

[DipStick]

17 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Manila airport is fine.

I came here because the airfare UK to BK was cheap ...... 220gbp return at the time (11,000bht).

Al three terminals at NAIA are both horrendous and traffic a nightmare, how you can make the comment you did I really don’t know!