Israeli gunfire wounds at least 28 Palestinians as Gaza border protests build

[webfact]

Israeli gunfire wounds at least 28 Palestinians as Gaza border protests build

By Nidal al-Mughrabi and Maayan Lubell

 

A female Palestinian demonstrator gestures during a protest against U.S. embassy move to Jerusalem and ahead of the 70th anniversary of Nakba, at the Israel-Gaza border, east of Gaza City May 14, 2018. REUTERS/Mohammed Salem

 

GAZA BORDER (Reuters) - Israeli gunfire wounded at least 28 Palestinians along the Gaza border on Monday, medics said, and protesters streamed to the frontier for the climax of a six-week demonstration as the United States prepared to open its embassy in Jerusalem.

 

Protests were expected to escalate during the day, the 70th anniversary of Israel's founding, as loudspeakers on Gaza mosques urged Palestinians to join the so-called "Great March of Return".

 

Israeli troops have killed 45 Palestinians since the demonstrations began on March 30, according to Palestinian health officials, while no Israeli casualties have been reported.

 

The death toll has drawn international criticism, but the United States, which has drawn Arab anger by relocating its embassy to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv, has echoed Israel in accusing Gaza's ruling Hamas movement of instigating violence.

 

Sending reinforcements to the Gaza border, the Israeli military dropped leaflets into the enclave on Monday, warning Palestinians "not to serve as a tool of Hamas" or approach or damage Israel's frontier fence.

 

But thousands of Palestinians massed at five locations along the line, and at least 28, including two local journalists, were wounded by Israeli gunfire, the Palestinian Red Crescent said.

 

The protests are scheduled to culminate on Tuesday, the day Palestinians mourn as the "Nakba" or "Catastrophe" when, in 1948, hundreds of thousands of them were driven out of their homes.

 

The Israeli military says its troops are defending the border and firing in accordance with the rules of engagement.

 

Palestinian witnesses said Israeli aircraft also dropped flammable material on Monday to burn tyres that protesters had stacked in preparation for them to be set on fire and rolled at the fence.

 

The Israelis also fired tear gas at people inside the tented encampments that have sprung up along the border, witnesses said.

 

Naftali Bennett, Israel's education minister, told Israel Radio that Israel would treat the Gaza fence as an "Iron Wall" and anyone who approached it as a "terrorist".

 

(Writing by Jeffrey Heller and Stephen Farrell; Editing by Janet Lawrence)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-05-14

[alocacoc]

Me thinks those palestinians aren't very smart.

Sent from a so called Smartphone using an App.

[dexterm]

54 Palestinians murdered so far by the psychopathic IDF cowards in full protective gear entrenched behind a steel fence with telescopic sights. Among the dead are two journalists, Yaser Murtaja and Ahmed Abu Hussein clearly marked as Press, five children, and two disabled men. That's quite a tally for the most moral army in the world. Israeli generals said there would be casualties. At least they are true to their word with all the deaths and injuries resulting solely from Israeli live ammunition.

 

Not a scratch on a single Israeli!

 

70% of the Palestinians in Gaza (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians) either themselves or their parents or grandparents once lived on the other side of the fence in what is now Israel. Unlike the chickenhawks who are firing live ammunition at them.

The refugees simply want to go home.

 

Meanwhile the Trumps, ambassadors for the US terrorist regime who support this obscenity,  sip cocktails just a few miles away in Jerusalem to celebrate 70 years of Israeli colonization and illegal occupation.. Hope they are Bloody Marys.

 

Western politicians should be ashamed of themselves for turning a blind eye to Israeli apartheid and atrocities for so many years.

 

Took a while elsewhere in the world for injustices to be addressed, but ultimately the truth will out.

Edited May 14, 2018 by dexterm

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

Your cut and paste drivel was addressed on previous topics. Let's recap, though:

 

Most of the Palestinian killed were identified as Hamas personnel (and before expected nonsense - by Hamas itself). Obviously, you will not acknowledge any responsibility whatsoever by Hamas for their deaths, but that's expected - inciting people to violence in the face of a superior force is apparently a totally reasonable course of action for a responsible leadership.

 

You're not going to mention any of those killed trying to damage the fence, go through it, or attach IED's to it. That wouldn't be inline with the "non violent" narrative. The usual implied expectation that clashes will be conducted on equal terms, or that Israelis ought to shed blood in order to satisfy some keyboard's warrior wish for balance are bizarre.

 

Most of the IDF soldiers on the other side of the fence, their parents and grandparents are natives of Israel. That you claim otherwise does not change reality. The Palestinian participating in the protests do not "simply want to go home" - they want to dislodge the Israelis, and there is no simple way for them "to go home", other than in simplistic, misleading propaganda posts.

 

The US is not a "terrorist regime" (Hamas, on the other hand, is). Jerusalem is not "a few miles away", but more like 70 miles (guess you'll cry "pedantry" or some such, but the point is  to illustrate that facts aren't that important when it comes to your rants). And, of course, by picking the 70 year mark - you're basically confirming your denouncement of Israel's very existence, rather than merely pretending to campaign for Palestinian rights.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Morch

[Opl]

  (AFP PHOTO / MOHAMMED ABED)

 “We extend a hand in friendship to Israel, the Palestinians, and to all of their neighbors. May there be peace,” the president said in his video remarks. “May God bless this embassy. May God bless all who serve there. And may God bless the United States of America.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2018/may/14/israeli-troops-kill-palestinians-protesting-against-us-embassy-move-to-jerusalem-live-updates?page=with:block-5af9aa0ae4b0cc735665530d#block-5af9aa0ae4b0cc735665530d

The Guardian’s Jerusalem correspondent, Oliver Holmes, has more details from Israel Defense Forces (IDF) spokesman, Lt Col Jonathan Conricus:

“As of now, no one has crossed the fence,” he said, adding there had been “several” attempts.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Opl

[Scott]

Please tone down the inflammatory rhetoric. 

[Morch]

Protests were (are?) planned to go on for at least a few days more - today the focal point being the US Embassy thing, tomorrow Nakba Day, coinciding with the beginning of the Ramadan. This almost certainly means more Palestinian casualties - which might serve their leadership to fuel an escalation: either by a mass attempt to cross the fence,  launching rockets at Israel, or attempting some other high profile attack. The Israeli response to such is somewhat Pavlovian, hence more mayhem.

 

Hamas's rule of the Gaza Strip was (is) a disaster for the Palestinians, and especially for the people of the Gaza Strip. The relatively late rude awakening to this going on being unattainable resulted in yet another episode of Palestinian "reconciliation process". As expected, this went nowhere, and to a degree, even made things worse - what with Abbas trying to bend Hamas's hand. Bottom line is that between the blockade, corruption, futile stance vs. Israel, and the never ending power struggles with the PA, Hamas managed to run the Gaza Strip into the brink of disaster.

 

Yes, sure - other parties are responsible for that as well - Israel, the Palestinian Authority, Egypt, the Arab World. But from an organization claiming leadership, one could have expected better. Or perhaps not. Inevitably, most of the decisions leading to how things are stem from Hamas policies and stance.

 

IMO, the protests, which were originally not quite a Hamas thing, and were indeed envisaged as non-violent, were hijacked by the Hamas leadership. Partly to counter the danger of a new, alternative, grassroots leadership gaining popularity, and partly to divert public angst with the Hamas over conditions in the Gaza Strip toward the default target, Israel.

 

During the last couple of days, Palestinians are bombarded by SMS messages from the Hamas urging them to join the protests. The same call (and more) appear on their media outlets, and repeated in public addresses by leaders. One need to ask to what end? Or to put it another way, is this what's expected of a responsible leadership trusted with the well-being of the populace it governs?

[Scott]

Post from a questionable source has been removed.   Please use credible sources.

 

[CharlesSwann]

49 minutes ago, Morch said:

Protests were (are?) planned to go on for at least a few days more - today the focal point being the US Embassy thing, tomorrow Nakba Day, coinciding with the beginning of the Ramadan. This almost certainly means more Palestinian casualties - which might serve their leadership to fuel an escalation: either by a mass attempt to cross the fence,  launching rockets at Israel, or attempting some other high profile attack. The Israeli response to such is somewhat Pavlovian, hence more mayhem.

 

Hamas's rule of the Gaza Strip was (is) a disaster for the Palestinians, and especially for the people of the Gaza Strip. The relatively late rude awakening to this going on being unattainable resulted in yet another episode of Palestinian "reconciliation process". As expected, this went nowhere, and to a degree, even made things worse - what with Abbas trying to bend Hamas's hand. Bottom line is that between the blockade, corruption, futile stance vs. Israel, and the never ending power struggles with the PA, Hamas managed to run the Gaza Strip into the brink of disaster.

 

Yes, sure - other parties are responsible for that as well - Israel, the Palestinian Authority, Egypt, the Arab World. But from an organization claiming leadership, one could have expected better. Or perhaps not. Inevitably, most of the decisions leading to how things are stem from Hamas policies and stance.

 

IMO, the protests, which were originally not quite a Hamas thing, and were indeed envisaged as non-violent, were hijacked by the Hamas leadership. Partly to counter the danger of a new, alternative, grassroots leadership gaining popularity, and partly to divert public angst with the Hamas over conditions in the Gaza Strip toward the default target, Israel.

 

During the last couple of days, Palestinians are bombarded by SMS messages from the Hamas urging them to join the protests. The same call (and more) appear on their media outlets, and repeated in public addresses by leaders. One need to ask to what end? Or to put it another way, is this what's expected of a responsible leadership trusted with the well-being of the populace it governs?

Everyone is weary of the 'blame Hamas' fallacy. Hamas is Israel's creation - or do you think that Israel really has no idea that invasion, ethnic cleansing, and cycles of oppression will - whaddaya know - fuel resistance -  especially when it forms the perfect smokescreen for it's creeping annexation of the West Bank?

 

Try extending the role of causation back a bit further than 'blame Hamas'. The further back you go, the more you lose the argument. And no, you can't go back to 600BC.

 

And, just once, try not to be so predictably, tediously, ethnocentrically partisan.

 

[JimmyJ]

Glenn Greenwald‏Verified account @ggreenwald 7h7 hours ago

 

Glenn Greenwald Retweeted AIPAC [Israeli "lobbyists"/slush fund]

 

Not a word about the unarmed Palestinian protesters being slaughted by the Israeli military (needless to say). Just praise for Trump's provocative, stupid move that serves the interets of nobody other than the Israeli Government and various religious fanatics in Israel & the US:

 

 

Glenn Greenwald‏Verified account @ggreenwald 7h7 hours ago

 

Glenn Greenwald Retweeted Donald J. Trump

 

Are any of you #MAGA fanatics wondering why a President who promised you he'd craft polices to put "America First" is now, instead, directly involving the US in Middle East violence in order to advance the interests of a foreign government and to serve radical religious dogmas?

[Albeit the "foreign government" is basically the USA's military base in the Middle East]

 

Glenn Greenwald‏Verified account @ggreenwald 7h7 hours ago

 

Has anyone figured yet how to blame the slaughter of Gazans on Putin? Viral tweets await for those who are enterprising.

 

Ashley Feinberg‏Verified account @ashleyfeinberg 8h8 hours ago

 

casual dining as an entire captive people is slaughtered nearby

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2018 by JimmyJ

[JimmyTheMook]

37 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, Ted Cruz is a loser - why is he in this photo?

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

8 hours ago, Morch said:

 

@dexterm

 

Your cut and paste drivel was addressed on previous topics. Let's recap, though:

 

Most of the Palestinian killed were identified as Hamas personnel (and before expected nonsense - by Hamas itself). ......

 

You're not going to mention any of those killed trying to damage the fence, go through it, or attach IED's to it. .....

 

Most of the IDF soldiers on the other side of the fence, their parents and grandparents are natives of Israel. That you claim otherwise does not change reality. ....

 

 

You very rightly call out unsubstantiated cut and paste comments.

 

Can you please give independent and verifiable sources for the claims you’ve made (underlined extracts above)?

Edited May 14, 2018 by metisdead
Please do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes or wording.

[MrMuddle]

Latest news from the BBC (link below), states 55 dead, and 2,700 injured.
Their blood is on Trump's hands.
South Africa has withdrawn their Ambassador, in protest "condemning the indiscrimate and grave manner of the latest Israeli attack".
France, Turkey and the UN have all condemned the Israeli actions.
This will come back to bite America big time, and deservedly so.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-44116340
 

[ezzra]

11 hours ago, dexterm said:

54 Palestinians murdered so far by the psychopathic IDF cowards in full protective gear entrenched behind a steel fence with telescopic sights. Among the dead are two journalists, Yaser Murtaja and Ahmed Abu Hussein clearly marked as Press, five children, and two disabled men. That's quite a tally for the most moral army in the world. Israeli generals said there would be casualties. At least they are true to their word with all the deaths and injuries resulting solely from Israeli live ammunition.

 

Not a scratch on a single Israeli!

 

70% of the Palestinians in Gaza (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians) either themselves or their parents or grandparents once lived on the other side of the fence in what is now Israel. Unlike the chickenhawks who are firing live ammunition at them.

The refugees simply want to go home.

 

Meanwhile the Trumps, ambassadors for the US terrorist regime who support this obscenity,  sip cocktails just a few miles away in Jerusalem to celebrate 70 years of Israeli colonization and illegal occupation.. Hope they are Bloody Marys.

 

Western politicians should be ashamed of themselves for turning a blind eye to Israeli apartheid and atrocities for so many years.

 

Took a while elsewhere in the world for injustices to be addressed, but ultimately the truth will out.

One would have taken your comments more seriously hadn't for your parotting the same bigoted and tunnel vision layered with hatred and disdains to Jews and israel messages... GET OF THE CROSS BUDDY, WE NEED THE WOOD....

[JimmyTheMook]

Why sometimes it is necessary to kill terrorists:

 

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/245948  

 

 

[ezzra]

5 hours ago, CharlesSwann said:

Everyone is weary of the 'blame Hamas' fallacy. Hamas is Israel's creation - or do you think that Israel really has no idea that invasion, ethnic cleansing, and cycles of oppression will - whaddaya know - fuel resistance -  especially when it forms the perfect smokescreen for it's creeping annexation of the West Bank?

 

Try extending the role of causation back a bit further than 'blame Hamas'. The further back you go, the more you lose the argument. And no, you can't go back to 600BC.

 

And, just once, try not to be so predictably, tediously, ethnocentrically partisan.

 

Inciting riots and ruling Gaza in a brutal manners in a shithole is Hamas strategy to survive, to keep the billions of dollars in cash and aids from donners counties flowing in, however, people in Gaza are much more mad at Abu Mazen, the Palestinian president, for cutting their civil servants salaries and not paying Israel for electricity supply to Gaza than at Israel itself...

[dexterm]

10 hours ago, Morch said:

 

@dexterm

 

Your cut and paste drivel was addressed on previous topics. Let's recap, though:

 

Most of the Palestinian killed were identified as Hamas personnel (and before expected nonsense - by Hamas itself). Obviously, you will not acknowledge any responsibility whatsoever by Hamas for their deaths, but that's expected - inciting people to violence in the face of a superior force is apparently a totally reasonable course of action for a responsible leadership.

 

You're not going to mention any of those killed trying to damage the fence, go through it, or attach IED's to it. That wouldn't be inline with the "non violent" narrative. The usual implied expectation that clashes will be conducted on equal terms, or that Israelis ought to shed blood in order to satisfy some keyboard's warrior wish for balance are bizarre.

 

Most of the IDF soldiers on the other side of the fence, their parents and grandparents are natives of Israel. That you claim otherwise does not change reality. The Palestinian participating in the protests do not "simply want to go home" - they want to dislodge the Israelis, and there is no simple way for them "to go home", other than in simplistic, misleading propaganda posts.

 

The US is not a "terrorist regime" (Hamas, on the other hand, is). Jerusalem is not "a few miles away", but more like 70 miles (guess you'll cry "pedantry" or some such, but the point is  to illustrate that facts aren't that important when it comes to your rants). And, of course, by picking the 70 year mark - you're basically confirming your denouncement of Israel's very existence, rather than merely pretending to campaign for Palestinian rights.

Your usual flaming preamble. Clearly you find the truth uncomfortable.

 

I regard Hamas as freedom fighters and legitimate resistance to Israel's 70 years of brutal occupation. The label "terrorists" is far more deserved by Israel's track record of killing 1000s of children and civilians and the regime in Washington that sponsors it.

 

Whether a person belongs to Hamas or not is irrelevant. The penalty for belonging to a political party, or a child wheeling a burning tire, or throwing stones or (shock horror..damaging a fence..one not officially recognized by any other country in the world!) is not summary execution, unless of course you live in the warped immoral world of the Zionist apologist. 

 

So you blame the victims. It's the IDF psychopaths (we've seen the videos of them celebrating their kills) who are firing the live ammunition from hundreds of yards away completely unthreatened.

 

>>that Israelis ought to shed blood in order to satisfy some keyboard's warrior wish for balance are bizarre.
...Please dont twist my words with your spin. I am talking about the same thing as the  group of respected elder statesmen including Kofi Annan , Desmond Tutu and Mary Robinson: the disproportionate use of force where IDF snipers with impunity can murder children running well away from the fence and paraplegics on their stumps shot dead for waving a Palestinian flag, because it will teach others a lesson.

 

"The Elders today called on the Israeli Government to fully comply with international humanitarian law and respect the right to peaceful protest of Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip. Their call follows the killing of 48 demonstrators and injury of almost 7,000 others, many of them children, by the Israeli army in the past month."
https://www.theelders.org/article/elders-demand-israel-respects-international-law-stop-further-gaza-protest-killings

 

The IDF on the other side of the fence are either themselves colonists or the children of mainly European colonists. 70% of the Palestinians in Gaza have been ethnically cleansed by those European colonists and herded in to the Gaza ghetto. They want to go home. It's a war crime not to allow refugees to return to their homes. If that upsets the demographics of Israeli apartheid, then so be it.

 

Pedantic indeed. It must be less upsetting for the Zionist regime's American guests being 70 miles away from this wanton slaughter rather than partying by the fence.

Edited May 15, 2018 by dexterm

[dexterm]

1 hour ago, ezzra said:

One would have taken your comments more seriously hadn't for your parotting the same bigoted and tunnel vision layered with hatred and disdains to Jews and israel messages... GET OF THE CROSS BUDDY, WE NEED THE WOOD....

You deliberately confuse legitimate criticism of Zionist apartheid Israel's brutal repression of the majority Palestinian population with anti Semitism. Point out a single anti Jewish word. Put up or shut up.

[Morch]

9 hours ago, CharlesSwann said:

Everyone is weary of the 'blame Hamas' fallacy. Hamas is Israel's creation - or do you think that Israel really has no idea that invasion, ethnic cleansing, and cycles of oppression will - whaddaya know - fuel resistance -  especially when it forms the perfect smokescreen for it's creeping annexation of the West Bank?

 

Try extending the role of causation back a bit further than 'blame Hamas'. The further back you go, the more you lose the argument. And no, you can't go back to 600BC.

 

And, just once, try not to be so predictably, tediously, ethnocentrically partisan.

 

 

You do not represent, nor speak for "everyone", and what you claim as a general accepted point of view is no such thing.

 

Unlike yourself, and some other posters, I do not see the repeated full (if biased) renditions of the conflict's entire history (or even further afield) as contributing much to these discussions.

 

As for winging about "partisan" - it would be a tad more believable coming from someone who isn't one, or if this was leveled at other posters as well.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Morch

[Morch]

5 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You very rightly call out unsubstantiated cut and paste comments.

 

Can you please give independent and verifiable sources for the claims you’ve made (underlined extracts above)?

 

What would be considered "independent and verifiable sources" in this context? And why would posters pretend these issues weren't addressed on previous topics, in which they participated?

 

Hamas identifying it's own personnel, pictures and all, was rejected as "fake" by the poster replied to. It was further rejected on the grounds it originally appeared in Arabic. And again, because the initial translation appeared on an Israeli sources (including those the poster often relies upon).

 

Similarly - there are numerous clips and pics showing Palestinians in the process of sabotaging the fence during (or between) the protests, and shooting at IDF troops. Some were posted on previous related topics and obviously ignored. That most such clips and pictures originate from IDF sources does not change the reality of them taking place. Unless, of course, one imagines that they are all, somehow, faked.

 

As for demographics - again, discussed on many a past topic, and not really all that hard to figure out if one applies common sense and simple math.

 

Why the request to re-hash things which were posted on numerous topics, even recent ones? And what's the point, considering these are often ignored, or brushed aside anyway?

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

What you regard Hamas as is irrelevant. There's a rather wide take in the West accepting Hamas's armed activities as terrorism. That you wish this to be applied to Israel, is again, irrelevant.

 

Many of the Hamas personnel killed, were identified (by Hamas) as affiliated or belonging to its military wing. That you try to market Hamas as a merely a "political party" does not change the fact that it isn't quite so.

 

And no, I do not quite "blame the victims", but rather focus on the issue of their leadership's share of the responsibility.

 

As for complaints about "twisting words" and quoting the the Elders  - The Elders' do not raise the issue of Israelis not being harmed, hurt, killed or shedding blood in this instance. This appeared in your own post, and contrasted with the Palestinian casualty figures. Trying to co-opt worthy comments of international figures is just another misleading effort. Also, I think it would be a quite a stretch describing the protests as "peaceful", as some of the quoted words imply. Guess people have different concepts of what constitutes a "peaceful" protest. In this context, there were other statements (by the EU, for example) highlighting the responsibility of both sides in this matter. IMO, that's a more appropriate approach.

 

Not expecting any serious comment on the question of what business do children, elderly or the handicap got attending such "peaceful" demonstrations, or whether organizers and caretakers got any responsibility in this regard. After reading thousands of your posts, it is quite clear that accountability and responsibility are not concepts associated with the Palestinians in any manner.

 

The standing tropes about European colonialism are irrelevant as they are incorrect. The same goes for the simplistic and misleading "they just want to go home" slogan. And no, countries are not obliged to commit national suicide in order to satisfy the fantasies of armchair social justice warriors.

[JimmyJ]

Glenn Greenwald  Verified account @ggreenwald
 

 

 

Last month alone, according to the UN, Israel killed 40 Gazans and another 5,511 were wounded

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/40-dead-5-511-wounded-un-figures-on-casualties-in-gaza-mass-protests-1.6030556 …

 

- this morning, they've shot another 500.

 

Israel is a rogue state that routinely uses terrorism to keep 1.8 million human beings trapped in an open-air prison:

 

Edited May 15, 2018 by JimmyJ

[Morch]

5 hours ago, ezzra said:

Inciting riots and ruling Gaza in a brutal manners in a shithole is Hamas strategy to survive, to keep the billions of dollars in cash and aids from donners counties flowing in, however, people in Gaza are much more mad at Abu Mazen, the Palestinian president, for cutting their civil servants salaries and not paying Israel for electricity supply to Gaza than at Israel itself...

 

There are no "billions of dollars in cash and aids" flowing in. Not for quite a while now.

[Morch]

6 hours ago, MrMuddle said:

Latest news from the BBC (link below), states 55 dead, and 2,700 injured.
Their blood is on Trump's hands.
South Africa has withdrawn their Ambassador, in protest "condemning the indiscrimate and grave manner of the latest Israeli attack".
France, Turkey and the UN have all condemned the Israeli actions.
This will come back to bite America big time, and deservedly so.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-44116340
 

 

"Their blood is on Trump's hands" how? The protests were planned before the Embassy thing became a reality. They are held annually, and as this is the 70th year, they would have had an extra edge anyway. Does Trump compel the Hamas to send people to the fence or call on the populace to do so?

 

Reading the article linked, there are quite a few countries not taking up a one-sided approach to events (so was the EU's reaction). And, to be accurate, "the UN", in this instance is the OHCHR.

[dexterm]

53 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

@dexterm

 

What you regard Hamas as is irrelevant. There's a rather wide take in the West accepting Hamas's armed activities as terrorism. That you wish this to be applied to Israel, is again, irrelevant.

 

Many of the Hamas personnel killed, were identified (by Hamas) as affiliated or belonging to its military wing. That you try to market Hamas as a merely a "political party" does not change the fact that it isn't quite so.

 

And no, I do not quite "blame the victims", but rather focus on the issue of their leadership's share of the responsibility.

 

As for complaints about "twisting words" and quoting the the Elders  - The Elders' do not raise the issue of Israelis not being harmed, hurt, killed or shedding blood in this instance. This appeared in your own post, and contrasted with the Palestinian casualty figures. Trying to co-opt worthy comments of international figures is just another misleading effort. Also, I think it would be a quite a stretch describing the protests as "peaceful", as some of the quoted words imply. Guess people have different concepts of what constitutes a "peaceful" protest. In this context, there were other statements (by the EU, for example) highlighting the responsibility of both sides in this matter. IMO, that's a more appropriate approach.

 

Not expecting any serious comment on the question of what business do children, elderly or the handicap got attending such "peaceful" demonstrations, or whether organizers and caretakers got any responsibility in this regard. After reading thousands of your posts, it is quite clear that accountability and responsibility are not concepts associated with the Palestinians in any manner.

 

The standing tropes about European colonialism are irrelevant as they are incorrect. The same goes for the simplistic and misleading "they just want to go home" slogan. And no, countries are not obliged to commit national suicide in order to satisfy the fantasies of armchair social justice warriors.

What's in a name? It's very easy to label freedom fighters as terrorists even when it comes from hypocritical Western politicians....tomorrow they will be photographed shaking hands with them at a peace conference. Yesterday's terrorist is tomorrow's resistance leader and the future's Prime Minister. World and Israel's own history is littered with such examples.

 

>>Many of the Hamas personnel killed, were identified (by Hamas) as affiliated or belonging to its military wing. 
...so what? The whole Israeli population with its compulsory military service is a military wing. I label the IDF as terrorists because of their murderous handiwork in the OP.

 

Yes, racist countries and systems are indeed obliged to commit national suicide! A minority of immigrants cannot rule an indigenous majority forever. Just because racists would like their regime to continue doesn't mean it must do. They'd better get over it.

[Morch]

7 hours ago, dexterm said:

What's in a name? It's very easy to label freedom fighters as terrorists even when it comes from hypocritical Western politicians....tomorrow they will be photographed shaking hands with them at a peace conference. Yesterday's terrorist is tomorrow's resistance leader and the future's Prime Minister. World and Israel's own history is littered with such examples.

 

>>Many of the Hamas personnel killed, were identified (by Hamas) as affiliated or belonging to its military wing. 
...so what? The whole Israeli population with its compulsory military service is a military wing. I label the IDF as terrorists because of their murderous handiwork in the OP.

 

Yes, racist countries and systems are indeed obliged to commit national suicide! A minority of immigrants cannot rule an indigenous majority forever. Just because racists would like their regime to continue doesn't mean it must do. They'd better get over it.

 

It's not a "name", but describes actions considered to be terrorism. As for "hypocritical Western politicians", that's an hypocritical comment seeing as your hail the very same politicians whenever they state something you approve of. Most of the hand shaking etc. is conducted after weapons are laid aside, and a path of compromise, diplomacy, and negotiations is chosen. Hamas isn't quite there yet, not even in the context of the Palestinian "reconciliation".

 

First, not the whole of the Israeli population faces compulsory military service. Other than that, soldiers are mostly considered legitimate targets, so not sure what was the point you were trying to make, or if you had one. How you label this or that is irrelevant.

 

That you decree this or that about Israel means less than little. Most of the world does not embrace your extreme and hateful point of view. Nor is the world, generally speaking, demanding Israel to submit unconditionally to Palestinian demands.

[Scott]

Post violating Fair Use Policy has been removed.  

[MrMuddle]

To (mis )quote Country Joe & The Fish :

[JimmyTheMook]

On 5/15/2018 at 1:32 AM, dexterm said:

What's in a name? It's very easy to label freedom fighters as terrorists even when it comes from hypocritical Western politicians....tomorrow they will be photographed shaking hands with them at a peace conference. Yesterday's terrorist is tomorrow's resistance leader and the future's Prime Minister. World and Israel's own history is littered with such examples.

 

>>Many of the Hamas personnel killed, were identified (by Hamas) as affiliated or belonging to its military wing. 
...so what? The whole Israeli population with its compulsory military service is a military wing. I label the IDF as terrorists because of their murderous handiwork in the OP.

 

Yes, racist countries and systems are indeed obliged to commit national suicide! A minority of immigrants cannot rule an indigenous majority forever. Just because racists would like their regime to continue doesn't mean it must do. They'd better get over it.

 

[dexterm]

5 hours ago, JimmyTheMook said:

 

So what is the point that these Zionist propagandists are making with a photoshopped poster of a gold coin with Stop Hamas printed on it? 
 
Zionists would have us believe that there was no-one living in Palestine before Jews arrived and no-one was left after they departed 2,000 years ago. And that the founding of Israel in 1948 was some sort of immaculate conception. And that any Palestinians were only there in a janitor capacity on non renewable annual leases awaiting the arrival of plane loads of their true masters from New York whose immigrant ancestors had migrated from Europe, so that they could hand over their keys, pack their camels and clear off. Utterly ridiculous justification for the ethnic cleansing, brutal repression and illegal occupation of 4.5 million indigenous Palestinians.

 

Incredible farcical fantasy as it may seem, this is one Zionist apologist's excuse for murdering with live ammunition 106 at the fence, including 16 children, 2 paraplegics and 2 journalists and 12,000 injured with one Israeli soldier bruised from a stone.
 
Please join the 21st century, Israel, and reach a peaceful agreement on a two state or one state solution. The world doesn't really care which. One day it will all be one country again anyway, absorbing all the different faiths, and the Great March of Return will be a short footnote in the history books.

Edited May 21, 2018 by dexterm