North Korea casts doubt on Trump summit, suspends talks with South

[dunroaming]

9 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 You want your opponent to disarm, while you show him  how you could kill him

Another Idiotic move by Trump.

He should have postponed those exercises for a couple of months as a show of good faith.Then if the negotiations did not go well, have the exercises. 

Totally agree.  Problem is that the expression "Good Faith" cannot easily be used when referring to Trump or Kim.

[jayboy]

36 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The Trump haters will simply use it as an excuse to attack and blame Trump. The US haters will blame and insult the US military. 

 

Balanced people who hate no one will agree with your balanced post!

You miss the point.The military exercise was the pretext for the NK statement not the reason for it.The matter which stuck in their gullet was John (that fizzing little walking testicle) Bolton's suggestion that NK should give up its nukes as part of a Libya style de nuclearization.Most will recall that Ghaddaffi voluntuarily gave up his nuclear programme but was subsequently sodomised with a bayonet for his trouble.Even the dimmest might work out that Kim doesn't find that a particularly attractive option.

 

There was never a chance in  hell that Kim would give up his nukes.That's what gives him power.

 

Incidentally its perfectly possible to loathe Trump's stupidity, vulgarity and crassness but hold the United States and its armed forces in highest regard.

[Baerboxer]

39 minutes ago, sirineou said:

You think it would have being a clever move to stage a show of force military exercise and invite your opponent to observe it  before meeting for negotiations where you want to stop NK for developing nuclear defencive measures ?  Don't you think such show of force would make the NK think they need more nuclear weapons? 

 

 

Yes. In reality the negotiations have started. This is the posturing and preparation stage. Letting the opposing side have a glimpse of your strength (as an official invitee rather than spies) might send some messages.

 

Kim isn't foolish enough to really believe he could beat the US. And he knows he could never afford to come anywhere close to. Besides which, he's scared to offend China who have instructed a different approach.

 

These are annual exercises. There is no reason to cancel them prior to the talks unless the US had decided that in doing so would give them an advantage. They appear to have concluded the opposite, that holding them is more advantageous.

 

The Western powers were desperate to avoid conflict in the 1930's so soon after the carnage of WW1. But appeasing Hitler and pandering to him had the totally opposite effect to that desired.

[lovelomsak]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

Are you claiming Trump is not in control of his Armed Forces?

Yes.

 It is not centrally located it is done by region

  Combatant Commands and their Commanders are responsible for geographic areas of the world. Perhaps the most recognizable of these Combatant Commands is the United States Central Command. Its Area of Operations includes the Middle East and Southwest Asia; specifically Syria, Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan. Central Command in the 33-years since its founding has been commanded by General Officers from the Army, Marine Corps and Navy.

[Baerboxer]

8 minutes ago, jayboy said:

You miss the point.The military exercise was the pretext for the NK statement not the reason for it.The matter which stuck in their gullet was John (that fizzing little walking testicle) Bolton's suggestion that NK should give up its nukes as part of a Libya style de nuclearization.Most will recall that Ghaddaffi voluntuarily gave up his nuclear programme but was subsequently sodomised with a bayonet for his trouble.Even the dimmest might work out that Kim doesn't find that a particularly attractive option.

 

There was never a chance in  hell that Kim would give up his nukes.That's what gives him power.

 

Incidentally its perfectly possible to loathe Trump's stupidity, vulgarity and crassness but hold the United States and its armed forces in highest regard.

 

How do you know what sticks in their gullet? Are you their confidant? What you mean is that is your opinion, nothing more.

 

Ghaddaffi got what he deserved. Are you suggesting Kim is held in the same contempt by large numbers of North Koreans who are edging to overthrow him and his family? Even the dimmest can work out the very big differences between Libya and North Korea. 

 

Indeed it is possible to dislike Trump and still like the US and it's armed forces. Only some posters clearly don't like the latter.

 

No one really knows just how far Kim's nuclear program has advanced or the condition of it's facilities. 

[Baerboxer]

47 minutes ago, simple1 said:

N.K. statement from 01/2018...

 

North Korean state media KCNA released a statement from the country's permanent representative to the UN saying any new military drills would harm relations with Seoul.

"If the US truly wishes for the improvement of the North-South ties and has a willingness to provide a peaceful environment on the peninsula, it should completely halt the joint military exercises, not just postponing them," the KCNA statement said.

 

One would assume similar statements have been made recently behind closed doors.

 

So? These are general statements constantly issued and repeated over annual drills. And ignored.

 

Now, if an agreement was made during the talks, on this subject, that would be different. 

[lionsincity]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

You could be right but it look's to me that Kim is just playing Trump like a yoyo.  Been waiting for this from the start so no surprise really.  Just after Trump praises Kim to high heaven.  Laughable but not exactly funny.  All news channels are carrying it so not much chance of it being fake news.  

 

Trump just gobbles the bait down like a brainless buffoon

[joecoolfrog]

6 hours ago, dcutman said:

Lets not get to excited Trump haters, very good chance this report by unknown sources, might not be real accurate. Could be pure speculation, or outright fake news. Lets just wait and see what happens next month or at the very least something more credible, with names, sources ect ect. They way news reporting used to be.

The North Korean official news site and a withering statement from its foreign affairs spokesman is not credible to you ?

[simple1]

7 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

Yes.

 It is not centrally located it is done by region

  Combatant Commands and their Commanders are responsible for geographic areas of the world. Perhaps the most recognizable of these Combatant Commands is the United States Central Command. Its Area of Operations includes the Middle East and Southwest Asia; specifically Syria, Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan. Central Command in the 33-years since its founding has been commanded by General Officers from the Army, Marine Corps and Navy.

I would have thought that the upcoming strategic N.K. & US meeting in Singapore would put military activity planned or otherwise, in the area, under the microscope as to potential influences on the adversary by the President. If not so I find rather odd.

[joecoolfrog]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

You think pandering to a lunatic bully like Kim is the answer? These exercises were arranged and known about. Kim is a dictator, from a family dynasty of dictators. If you give in to him all the time he'll demand more and more until he rules.

 

They should have boxed clever; maybe inviting NK to send observers.

 

Kim won't send diddly squat. China won't let him. They want the US off the peninsular so they can dominate. They don't want a war, and certainly not a nuclear one.

Yes the Chinese hold all the aces and will influence Kim far more than the US will. Peking will be happy for Trump to get the twitter glory , they know who the real winners will be.

[simple1]

20 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

So? These are general statements constantly issued and repeated over annual drills. And ignored.

 

Now, if an agreement was made during the talks, on this subject, that would be different. 

The statement was very specific regards potential diplomatic outcomes in 2018. If Trump is of the opinion they can be ignored in the diplomatic ping pong so be it. Trump is playing very high stake games in an arena, strategic international diplomacy he has zero previous experience. Trump has now appointed primarily 'yes men' as his advisers, one hopes for the region he doesn't misjudge his opponent.

 

Edited May 16, 2018 by simple1

[jayboy]

40 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

How do you know what sticks in their gullet? Are you their confidant? What you mean is that is your opinion, nothing more.

 

Ghaddaffi got what he deserved. Are you suggesting Kim is held in the same contempt by large numbers of North Koreans who are edging to overthrow him and his family? Even the dimmest can work out the very big differences between Libya and North Korea. 

 

Indeed it is possible to dislike Trump and still like the US and it's armed forces. Only some posters clearly don't like the latter.

 

No one really knows just how far Kim's nuclear program has advanced or the condition of it's facilities. 

Yes it's my opinion.Whose else would it be? But it's based on keeping in touch with key commentators in the quality press.

 

You might want to do some reading on current situation yourself because your comments are, let us say, not very insightful or sophisticated.Don't make the mistake of thinking one man's opinion is as good as another's.

[dunroaming]

50 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

Yes.

 It is not centrally located it is done by region

  Combatant Commands and their Commanders are responsible for geographic areas of the world. Perhaps the most recognizable of these Combatant Commands is the United States Central Command. Its Area of Operations includes the Middle East and Southwest Asia; specifically Syria, Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan. Central Command in the 33-years since its founding has been commanded by General Officers from the Army, Marine Corps and Navy.

I am sure that is all true but we are talking about North Korea and Trump's scheduled "summit" with Kim.  If Trump really leaves the operational side to the commanders then he is even more stupid than I thought and I find that really hard to imagine.

[CGW]

5 hours ago, sammieuk1 said:

I am sure Kim's intentions were never honorable to start with. 

& the US intentions were honorable, look back at some of their actions over recent years, would you trust them?

[CGW]

14 minutes ago, jayboy said:

But it's based on keeping in touch with key commentators in the quality press.

Maybe you would like to share the "quality press" you are reading, all I read is  so called "reporters" repeating what they are told to say! 

Edited May 16, 2018 by CGW

[jayboy]

30 minutes ago, CGW said:

Maybe you would like to share the "quality press" you are reading, all I read is  so called "reporters" repeating what they are told to say! 

Read a range.Washington Post, New York Times,Economist Nikkei, Times,Der Spiegel International, Financial Times,BBC to start with.Won't necessarily give you the full picture but will give you a platform to make a judgement or do further reading.

 

But of course given the analytical processes underlying your comment on "reporters repeating what they are told to say" it unfortunately rather marks you out as the type than won't/can't lift a finger.

[CGW]

15 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Read a range.Washington Post, New York Times,Economist Nikkei, Times,Der Spiegel International, Financial Times,BBC to start with.Won't necessarily give you the full picture but will give you a platform to make a judgement or do further reading.

 

But of course given the analytical processes underlying your comment on "reporters repeating what they are told to say" it unfortunately rather marks you out as the type than won't/can't lift a finger.

& your comments make me believe you are a judgmental "sheep" who likes to take personal digs as you obviously consider yourself on a higher intellectual level than me!

Have a nice day................

[jayboy]

8 minutes ago, CGW said:

& your comments make me believe you are a judgmental "sheep" who likes to take personal digs as you obviously consider yourself on a higher intellectual level than me!

Have a nice day................

Try reading my post which went out of its way to stress the importance of thinking for yourself.You asked for some quality press outlets and I gave them to you.

 

 

[lannarebirth]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

The statement was very specific regards potential diplomatic outcomes in 2018. If Trump is of the opinion they can be ignored in the diplomatic ping pong so be it. Trump is playing very high stake games in an arena, strategic international diplomacy he has zero previous experience. Trump has now appointed primarily 'yes men' as his advisers, one hopes for the region he doesn't misjudge his opponent.

 

There are really only a few possible outcomes, most of which haven't been discussed. People talk of reunification but that's not going to happen while Kim is in power. If it did he's looking at being "Ceausescued". So reunification requires sending Kim to exile, probably in China. 

 

As for the de-nuclearization, that's just the catch word dejour. Kim says he's never giving up his nukes, so what does de-nuclearization even mean? Blowing up the test site with dynamite that he already blew up with a thermonuclear bomb? C'mon!

[Sydebolle]

Yet another proof of the absolute inability of American foreign policy. For ONCE the Yanks (and I mean here the official circus of clowns in Washington and the Pentagon) they should have stayed put but NO, in old fashion they f“*ç%“*ç%ed up that warming up again. Nothing short of absolute brainless politics! 

Congratulations are in order for the second big screw-up in 2018 by the United States of Idiotic Politicians. 

But maybe Netanyahu will be kissing Trumps arse now while the Korean Peninsula remains what it was for the last 65 years - an American foreign policy Desaster. Too many clowns and not enough circuses! 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The Trump haters will simply use it as an excuse to attack and blame Trump. The US haters will blame and insult the US military. 

 

Balanced people who hate no one will agree with your balanced post!

 

I'm a Trump hater, simply because of how he operates, what he's done, and what he's trying to do.

 

However, I'm a balanced Trump hater, so even I am not going to try to blame this latest maneuver by North Korean on Trump or the U.S. military.

 

Don't worry though. There's a VERY long list of other things that Trump absolutely deserves discredit for. Perhaps Kim doesn't want to see Trump touted for the Nobel Peace prize???   

[jackh]

My first reaction was Trump should back off military exercises to not jeopardize the summit. Then I thought about it more, and I believe Trump should not change a thing until if/when this meeting takes place. Kim is a lair, and until this meeting takes place, we should not change a single thing. Trump knows it's best to keep his pressure strong right up to the end. Kim cannot be made to sense his future will be anything less the the present, unless HE makes moves to change first.

Kim is on the ropes and he knows it. Out of money and friends, he has no choice but to make changes or his regime is set to fail soon. Trump holds the trump card, and he knows it. He is a master dealmaker and I agree to keep our policy exactly the same right up to the end.   

[jayboy]

Useful article

 

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/north-korea/2018-04-05/perception-and-misperception-korean-peninsula?cid=nlc-emc-paywall-free-reading-msiperception-korean-peninsula-a-20180516

[Trouble]

This is all just posturing for the summit.  Kim knew the war games were going to take place, did not make any issue of it during the previous talks, and accepted the fact that they would take place.  These talks and summit are Kim's chance to be on the world stage, he is not going to blow it. Whether everyone can agree or not on the end game for both sides, well we will just have to wait and see.

[Penicillin]

7 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

You think pandering to a lunatic bully like Kim is the answer? These exercises were arranged and known about. Kim is a dictator, from a family dynasty of dictators. If you give in to him all the time he'll demand more and more until he rules.

 

They should have boxed clever; maybe inviting NK to send observers.

 

Kim won't send diddly squat. China won't let him. They want the US off the peninsular so they can dominate. They don't want a war, and certainly not a nuclear one.

You are the only poster that shows any intelligent thought .....and right on target.  Most others show an abysmal lack of understanding , blinded by hate or are just plain ignorant. 

[Penicillin]

1 hour ago, jackh said:

My first reaction was Trump should back off military exercises to not jeopardize the summit. Then I thought about it more, and I believe Trump should not change a thing until if/when this meeting takes place. Kim is a lair, and until this meeting takes place, we should not change a single thing. Trump knows it's best to keep his pressure strong right up to the end. Kim cannot be made to sense his future will be anything less the the present, unless HE makes moves to change first.

Kim is on the ropes and he knows it. Out of money and friends, he has no choice but to make changes or his regime is set to fail soon. Trump holds the trump card, and he knows it. He is a master dealmaker and I agree to keep our policy exactly the same right up to the end.   

Good  post !

[bristolboy]

26 minutes ago, Penicillin said:

You are the only poster that shows any intelligent thought .....and right on target.  Most others show an abysmal lack of understanding , blinded by hate or are just plain ignorant. 

 

23 minutes ago, Penicillin said:

Good  post !

Interesting. You give a thumbs up to 2 posts. The first says Kim is acting at the behest of China .

The 2nd says Kim has no friends and his regime is set to fail soon.

It's clear that what gets your approval is any negative comments about Kim even if they contradict each other.

[Slip]

2 hours ago, jackh said:

My first reaction was Trump should back off military exercises to not jeopardize the summit. Then I thought about it more, and I believe Trump should not change a thing until if/when this meeting takes place. Kim is a lair, and until this meeting takes place, we should not change a single thing. Trump knows it's best to keep his pressure strong right up to the end. Kim cannot be made to sense his future will be anything less the the present, unless HE makes moves to change first.

Kim is on the ropes and he knows it. Out of money and friends, he has no choice but to make changes or his regime is set to fail soon. Trump holds the trump card, and he knows it. He is a master dealmaker and I agree to keep our policy exactly the same right up to the end.   

So you changed your previously pro-Trump spiel in what way exactly?

[Slip]

1 hour ago, Penicillin said:

You are the only poster that shows any intelligent thought .....and right on target.  Most others show an abysmal lack of understanding , blinded by hate or are just plain ignorant. 

Irony seems to be entirely lost on you. Happy days!

[sirineou]

20 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

Yes. In reality the negotiations have started. This is the posturing and preparation stage. Letting the opposing side have a glimpse of your strength (as an official invitee rather than spies) might send some messages.

 

Kim isn't foolish enough to really believe he could beat the US. And he knows he could never afford to come anywhere close to. Besides which, he's scared to offend China who have instructed a different approach.

 

These are annual exercises. There is no reason to cancel them prior to the talks unless the US had decided that in doing so would give them an advantage. They appear to have concluded the opposite, that holding them is more advantageous.

 

The Western powers were desperate to avoid conflict in the 1930's so soon after the carnage of WW1. But appeasing Hitler and pandering to him had the totally opposite effect to that desired.

 NK does not need a "glimpse" . NK has gotten plenty of glimpses . It is precisely because of those glimpses that it seeks a nuclear capability.

What the NK needs is a glimpse of a future that does not threaten it's existence to modify it's defensive stance.