Court decides: AirBnB illegal in Thailand for daily and weekly rental

[bkk6060]

3 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

So In hotel rooms u have never neighbors? In Hotels u can prior to ur arrival safety screen the hotel owner and all its staff?

airbnb staff doesn’t change ur bed sheets?

these were all ur complaints concerns about airbnb in comparison with a hotel and none of them made any sense. We dont  need ur drawings either.

Hey, maybe they are really nice drawings. ????

 

It all depends what you want most Airbnb condos have no restaurant.  And they usually will not change the sheets for possibly a week.

But, they will mostly have a kitchen and large frig.

Another thing that was happening at The Base before I left was 6 to 8 people staying in one 35 sq mtr room.  Good for them I guess, but I doubt a hotel would allow it.

[luckyluke]

9 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

It all depends what you want

 I have a lady here in Thonglor, who comes to clean my place & changing the bedding : 350 Thb at a time. She also iron my clothes for 20 Thb a piece. 

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

you are correct, Thai law says the owner of a property can enjoy the benefits of their investment but like any law in Thailand, all very confusing and let for "convenience interpretation" the hotel owners question that interpretation thus conflicts arise

     Yes, any property owner 'can enjoy the benefits of their investment'.  But, it has to be within the law.  You can't buy a condo and legally set up a casino in it.   You can't buy a condo and legally set up a hotel in it, either.   Those doing illegal short-term rentals would like to believe there is some ambiguity regarding the law but it is really quite clear.  With an exception given for places with 5 rooms or less housing 20 persons or less, short-term rentals are only legal in licensed hotels.  Obviously, most condo projects have far more than 5 rooms and 20 persons.  

[ThaiBob]

5 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Yes.

They are all over even at the front gates at the The Base.

Some place signs saying ST will go to jail.

Waste of time those View Talay signs will change nothing there and they were at the request of the condo board,  not a government agency.

I guarantee they will stop nothing.

Sorry, I was on the board (Committee) and know the board members in the other projects. The Juristic took it upon themselves to put up the signs. If they were pressured, that is open to speculation. In general, it is Juristic that suffers any legal consequences. In my view, it is simply a case of CYA. 

[balo]

I am going to rent a few days in BKK via AirBNB and it will be business as usual. Then back to my condo in Pattaya. Nothing has changed, the owner will probably not report me. Never paid any fines at immigration.

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, ThaiBob said:

Sorry, I was on the board (Committee) and know the board members in the other projects. The Juristic took it upon themselves to put up the signs. If they were pressured, that is open to speculation. In general, it is Juristic that suffers any legal consequences. In my view, it is simply a case of CYA. 

No sorry.

You talking The Base?

As I have said before it is 1000 rooms in central everyone wants to stay there.

Airbnb, Agoda, booking. com you name it they are advertised.

I have traveled all over this country I think The Base admin/juristic, whatever may be the biggest abusers/look the other way of the ST law in the country..

I moved out after over 2 years of the BS and am so much happier.

I hope there is an investigation into the place at some point but I doubt it. Obviously, financial compensation will probably allow it to continue.

 

 

[Mavideol]

1 hour ago, newnative said:

     Yes, any property owner 'can enjoy the benefits of their investment'.  But, it has to be within the law.  You can't buy a condo and legally set up a casino in it.   You can't buy a condo and legally set up a hotel in it, either.   Those doing illegal short-term rentals would like to believe there is some ambiguity regarding the law but it is really quite clear.  With an exception given for places with 5 rooms or less housing 20 persons or less, short-term rentals are only legal in licensed hotels.  Obviously, most condo projects have far more than 5 rooms and 20 persons.  

ALL a matter of interpretation...condo unit as freehold ownership is considered 1 unit not 5, 6 or 7 just 1

 

Section 17/1 In the case where a space in the condominium is set aside as a place to carry out the business, the system on entering and exiting such area shall be specifically set up in order to prevent the disturbance on the peaceful enjoyment of the joint owners.
No person shall be permitted to engage in any trade transactions in the condominium except it is a trade transaction in the area of the condominium designated in accordance with paragraph one.

 

the information on the poster is misleading and/or incorrect.... condo law Section 17 doesn't say anything about the unit rental, it relates to business being run at the site, it could be assumed that renting units on a daily/weekly basis could be considered as a business the same would apply to renting a unit on a monthly basis, it's  still a business, condo projects have at least 2 types of ownership freehold and leasehold, if one owns a unit as freehold it's considered as a single house thus not follow within the hotel law claiming nobody with more than 5 rooms can not rent without hotel license, renting or not renting is or should be governed by the condo bylaws and regulations, Thai ownership law allows a owner to profit from his/hers property/investment, but again, this is a matter of interpretation, there are precedents with regards to residences but nothing specifically related to condominiums as it's something not being around for longtime in Thailand, the Hua In law suit can not be used as precedent as it had many different related matters. When the developer/construction company advertises the units for sale, it's common practice, by them, to guaranty a certain % return on the purchase and thus promising to rent the units, this, as per the condo act  and hotel law, is illegal, they want to run a business out of the building and to do so they need a GM and the owners permission to proceed and since they will be renting more than 5 rooms they will need an hotel license as well, the law not enforced, they keep doing it on a regular basis, yesterday walked by an ongoing condo construction and the signs are all over the site and driving around the city/town signs are all over as well

[bkk6060]

32 minutes ago, balo said:

I am going to rent a few days in BKK via AirBNB and it will be business as usual. Then back to my condo in Pattaya. Nothing has changed, the owner will probably not report me. Never paid any fines at immigration.

Sure, good for you.

No one will report or do anything so enjoy your stay.

[ChipButty]

What about these Development companies building condo's that guarantee a % return is that not illegal?

[cryo]

I would suspect the biggest issue is the condo building insurance If short time renters accidentaly burn part of the building down how do you stand for rebuilding insurance as you are technically breaking the law which I suspect will invalidate the condo building insurance, who pays then? 

[bkk6060]

17 hours ago, cryo said:

I would suspect the biggest issue is the condo building insurance If short time renters accidentaly burn part of the building down  

Doubt it is "the biggest" issue at all since I have never heard it happening.

[DLock]

I stay in a higher end Moo Baan in Chiang Mai.

 

The property next to me is Chinese owned. They ran it as an AirBNB for Chinese tourists. It is a 4-bedroom house, but they managed to get 20+ people in their sometimes and it was constantly booked. Vans at all hours, Somchai's sitting in vans outside my house all day, kids screaming, loud conversations and drinking outside, throwing things at my dog and using common areas like pool and leaving a mess. It felt like an invasion and I can imagine if 10 or 20 of the homes did the same thing, it would be unliveable...

 

It took 2 months to close them down, but the key was Immigration. They had to catch the group at the house and missed the first 2 times, but eventually raided them as they were going out in the morning, arrested the owner and forced the Developer to put a sign up that says "No AirBnB" and changed the car policy so no-one can get in without being registered. 

 

The Chinese were apparently given verbal approval from the Developer to rent it out (I'm sure it was carefully worded), even though it was against rules and law. But I agree, if the Juristic people turn a blind eye, then Owners will take advantage...

 

...and if Chinese buy next to you...you know whats about to happen.

 

 

[Peterw42]

14 minutes ago, DLock said:

It took 2 months to close them down, but the key was Immigration. They had to catch the group at the house and missed the first 2 times, but eventually raided them as they were going out in the morning, arrested the owner and forced the Developer to put a sign up that says "No AirBnB" and changed the car policy so no-one can get in without being registered. 

Do you know what immigration specifically enforced ? The tenants are not really breaking any immigration laws, the owner is really only breaking TM30 reporting rules etc. Usually a fine, not arrest.

I am glad they shut it down but I would have thought it would be more a regular police issue, not a legal hotel etc.

[ChristianBlessing]

On 5/16/2018 at 3:47 PM, MaxLee said:

First UBER and now AirBnB...... 

Uber left Thailand after selling its business to Grab.

[MaxLee]

42 minutes ago, ChristianBlessing said:

Uber left Thailand after selling its business to Grab.

And then Grab drivers are the next victim of the Taxi Mafia

[DLock]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

Do you know what immigration specifically enforced ? The tenants are not really breaking any immigration laws, the owner is really only breaking TM30 reporting rules etc. Usually a fine, not arrest.

I am glad they shut it down but I would have thought it would be more a regular police issue, not a legal hotel etc.

They tenants did not break any laws, so they were just evicted immediately, as the property was no licensed to be a hotel. The Juristic persons were also previously ordered to stop allowing AirBNB to happen, but they turned a blind eye, even though it was so obvious. They were ordered to make sure no dwelling was used for short term rentals.

 

The Owner had been visited twice and had promise to stop, but never did.

 

I do not know specifically wha they were arrested for, but my staff who handled the communication said it was reporting rules as well as breach of a previous order.

 

Police in my part of Chiang Mai were really not interested at all.

 

This is the sign at the front gate the Juristic were forced to put up. Crappy sign, but it has worked.

 

Edited April 25, 2019 by DLock
dyslexic

[Mavideol]

On 4/13/2019 at 3:36 PM, ChipButty said:

What about these Development companies building condo's that guarantee a % return is that not illegal?

they could be illegal if they are a condominium but they could be legal if they hold an hotel license

[newnative]

On 4/25/2019 at 12:09 PM, Mavideol said:

they could be illegal if they are a condominium but they could be legal if they hold an hotel license

    If you're renting a condo for a month or more, you're legal.  And, you can make a legal return on your investment.  The first year we owned at The Base, we were getting 25,000 baht a month rent on a 1 year rent contract on a condo that cost 3MB total.  The first year's condo fees and closing costs had been paid by the developer since we closed early on buying the condo so the 25,000 was all profit.  In some cases you might do better renting long-term if you have only 1 or 2 condos--unless you want to personally do the daily cleaning,  bed and bath linen washing, bed-making, scheduling and checking in and out the illegal renters, and so on.  Not for me.

[Mavideol]

On 4/26/2019 at 1:19 PM, newnative said:

    If you're renting a condo for a month or more, you're legal.  And, you can make a legal return on your investment.  The first year we owned at The Base, we were getting 25,000 baht a month rent on a 1 year rent contract on a condo that cost 3MB total.  The first year's condo fees and closing costs had been paid by the developer since we closed early on buying the condo so the 25,000 was all profit.  In some cases you might do better renting long-term if you have only 1 or 2 condos--unless you want to personally do the daily cleaning,  bed and bath linen washing, bed-making, scheduling and checking in and out the illegal renters, and so on.  Not for me.

so AirBnB is illegal for daily/weekly renting but legal for 1 month renting....hummm would like to see that law. In my humble (condo owner) opinion AirBnB is illegal for any renting because it's taking business away from hotels, and since (the majority) of the hotels it's own/run by the local mafia thus conflict of interests, no other obvious reason besides the already obvious one.

[DLock]

2 hours ago, Mavideol said:

so AirBnB is illegal for daily/weekly renting but legal for 1 month renting....hummm would like to see that law. In my humble (condo owner) opinion AirBnB is illegal for any renting because it's taking business away from hotels, and since (the majority) of the hotels it's own/run by the local mafia thus conflict of interests, no other obvious reason besides the already obvious one.

"and since (the majority) of the hotels it's own/run by the local mafia"...

 

Really? Define "local mafia".

[Mavideol]

16 hours ago, DLock said:

"and since (the majority) of the hotels it's own/run by the local mafia"...

 

Really? Define "local mafia".

go out there start to run a business competing with them and you will find out

[overherebc]

21 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

go out there start to run a business competing with them and you will find out

For sure if it starts to show a good profit.

Even ex-pat bar 'owners' set prices as a group for all other ex-pat bar 'owners' in some areas.

 

[ChipButty]

Not Airbnb but another booking platform say there is over 3000 listings in Phuket alone I would think it's a difficult job to monitor 

[Mavideol]

4 hours ago, overherebc said:

For sure if it starts to show a good profit.

Even ex-pat bar 'owners' set prices as a group for all other ex-pat bar 'owners' in some areas.

 

the guy must be new here or maybe have been locked up for quite sometime

[Mavideol]

2 hours ago, ChipButty said:

Not Airbnb but another booking platform say there is over 3000 listings in Phuket alone I would think it's a difficult job to monitor 

easy for them, they have plenty of informants one at each corner.... here is an example: parked my car for 2-3 minutes facing the wrong way (I know it's my fault but it's an example)  next to the pharmacy, checked for any cop in moto or car or walking, nothing, nobody, only the moto taxi guy...went in and out, pick up the ready package, turn back to the car cop in a moto writing a ticket (500 baht) the taxi moto guy next to him with a big smile on his face, guess who called the cop

[DLock]

6 hours ago, Mavideol said:

go out there start to run a business competing with them and you will find out

 

I run multiple businesses and there is no "Thai mafia" that I need to be concerned about. 

 

You watch to much TV or believe everything Barry tell you.

[bkk6060]

14 hours ago, Mavideol said:

easy for them, they have plenty of informants one at each corner.... here is an example: parked my car for 2-3 minutes facing the wrong way (I know it's my fault but it's an example)  next to the pharmacy, checked for any cop in moto or car or walking, nothing, nobody, only the moto taxi guy...went in and out, pick up the ready package, turn back to the car cop in a moto writing a ticket (500 baht) the taxi moto guy next to him with a big smile on his face, guess who called the cop

Typical.

What is your point? Nothing is your fault?

You were caught doing something illegal and paid 16 bucks for your illegal activity. So????

Next time, I suggest you park in a legal manner......

[bkk6060]

13 hours ago, DLock said:

 

I run multiple businesses and there is no "Thai mafia" that I need to be concerned about. 

 

You watch to much TV or believe everything Barry tell you.

Yes, of course.

You are right but to the naive victims everything is a "brown envelope".

Mostly those with negative life thinking living in the past.

Good post.

 

[Mavideol]

20 hours ago, DLock said:

 

I run multiple businesses and there is no "Thai mafia" that I need to be concerned about. 

 

You watch to much TV or believe everything Barry tell you.

so you are a lucky one...keep it up but don't think it doesn't happen to others

[Mavideol]

7 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Typical.

What is your point? Nothing is your fault?

You were caught doing something illegal and paid 16 bucks for your illegal activity. So????

Next time, I suggest you park in a legal manner......

did I acknowledge my mistake, yes I did, so what's your point, you never did anything wrong or never broke the law or never did anything illegal, was explaining about the rats at each corner of the town maybe you missed the point