Court decides: AirBnB illegal in Thailand for daily and weekly rental

[MichaelJohn]

Our condo has changed it Memorandum to make renting less than 30 days against the rules. This has been approved by the Land Office and every owner has been written too.

The JM advises that the BMA now visits to collect names of owners renting their properties; they're only interesting in collecting the information for Tax purposes.

The JM has the right to terminate services to the unit breaking the law, like Elec and Water; but I've yet to hear of that happening.

The effect is that the short term renters have reduced but not yet to zero!

[newnative]

46 minutes ago, rexall said:

Why does the condo association need a law to lean on?  They make up all sorts of rules all the time (regarding pets, renovations, noise, all kinds of stuff). If an owner does not comply and if the dispute cannot be resolved amicably, there is a legal process. But the process involves breach of contract not breaking a law.   At least that is the way it is in the U.S. with neighborhood associations and such who can be pretty draconian, so much so, some choose not to live in those types of developments. I assume it is at least similar in LOS.

     As an American, you should be aware that most municipalities will have zoning laws and regulations in place covering all sorts of things and many will have rules and regulations that regulate short-term rentals.  They are all there to protect the residents and maintain the municipality as a place where people want to live and businesses want to be.  With the 'lean on' thing, I think it's more a case of the residents having a governing body looking out for their interests.

    Recently, the county where I used to live, Fairfax County, Virginia, revised its short-term rental regulations.  I think they could serve as an excellent model that protects residents but also allows short-term rentals of condos and homes under certain conditions.  There are fees and restrictions on the number of renters allowed and a number of other things but the main highlights:

1. The rental has to be the permanent residence of the owner doing the short-term rentals.  So, properties bought strictly as rentals are ruled out.  Properties bought by businesses to operate as hotel rooms are ruled out.  Good.

2.  The property can be rented for a maximum of 60 days per calendar year.  Even if you lie and say the property is your permanent residence where you live, when it is not, you are still restricted to 60 rental days a year.  With the 60 day restriction, owners with investment rentals will likely look for long-term renters instead as there will be more potential profit.  Also good.  Both #1 and #2 are designed to treat short-term rentals as limited income producers for owners renting their properties on a limited basis to earn some extra money.

3.  Condo associations and home owner associations can still choose to prohibit short-term rentals, should they choose to.  Very good.  The county is not forcing condo associations and home owner associations to accept short-term rentals.  Rather, the county is saying that if you want short-term rentals, these are the rules and regulations you must follow.   Seems to me the county has struck a nice balance with a thorny issue.

[Seeall]

On 6/4/2018 at 8:27 AM, stud858 said:

if they wanted to enforce, it would be easy. many ads for per day rental on internet.as for foreigners renting.  Don't do it.  go through an agent so you are not the one renting or considered as working. 

Its the Owner/ manager/ carer PRIOR to the agent, so agents are not responsible!!!

[balo]

Any news about this ?  The AirBNB website is still very busy in Thailand. If they really want to take it seriously they could just block the IP address so you can't access it from Thailand. 

 

 

[robsamui]

3 hours ago, balo said:

Any news about this ?  The AirBNB website is still very busy in Thailand. If they really want to take it seriously they could just block the IP address so you can't access it from Thailand. 

 

 

You beat me to it! I am looking for an AirBnB to go with a BKK hospital visit next month, and there are hundreds still being offered. The new 'law' seems to have made little practical difference.

 

[bkk6060]

4 hours ago, balo said:

Any news about this ?  The AirBNB website is still very busy in Thailand. If they really want to take it seriously they could just block the IP address so you can't access it from Thailand. 

 

 

Sure.  The news is nothing is being done.

Include all the hotel sites which have many ST condo rentals.

Its a laugher free for all!!

[tjg27]

The Palm Condo Wongamat

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[newnative]

9 minutes ago, tjg27 said:

The Palm Condo Wongamat

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
 

  Centric Sea Condo also seems to be trying to stem the illegal daily renters.  Was there yesterday and there were signs somewhat like this lined up one after the other all the way up the driveway to the condo--in English, Russian, and Chinese.  Should have snapped a photo but the English one said something like "This is our home!  Please don't use it as a hotel!"   There were also fines listed for doing illegal rentals.  Nice some are at least trying a bit.

[KhaoYai]

On 5/16/2018 at 9:20 AM, zaphod reborn said:

Renting out condo units for less than a month without a hotel license was always a legal violation.  The court ruling was expected.  It doesn't apply to single-unit homes.  

Can anyone confirm that this is correct?  I have a detached house and don't want to rent out at the moment but that could change in the future. There's also a hell of a lot of villas still advertised to rent by the day/week in places like Samui/Phuket.

[bkk6060]

43 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Can anyone confirm that this is correct?  I have a detached house and don't want to rent out at the moment but that could change in the future. There's also a hell of a lot of villas still advertised to rent by the day/week in places like Samui/Phuket.

Nothing from my experience in Pattaya anyway is being enforced.  1000's of mostly Chinese everyday renting Shortime.

[KhaoYai]

1 minute ago, bkk6060 said:

Nothing from my experience in Pattaya anyway is being enforced.  1000's of mostly Chinese everyday renting Shortime.

I'm wanting to know the law, not what's being enforced. I have no intention of breaking any law - enforced or otherwise.

[madmen]

On 12/5/2018 at 6:37 AM, balo said:

Any news about this ?  The AirBNB website is still very busy in Thailand. If they really want to take it seriously they could just block the IP address so you can't access it from Thailand. 

 

 

It has nothing to do with air bnb directly. its just a platform that can set up to rent  monthly nightly or yearly or what ever so they are doing nothing wrong at all. Its the Thais breaking the law ,,what a big surprise eh ?

 

shut them down and everyone will switch to booking .com  or turnkey and a few others

 

Air bnb is a global Juggernaut that is unstoppable. And they do bring in more tourists in high season when the hotels are full or so expensive it puts people off and Im sure the authorities know it all to well

[utalkin2me]

Thailand can do what they want of course. I personally draw a distinction between folks being escorted into a condo unit by one of its owners, "these people will be staying with us for a couple weeks" type dialogue, and then property management employees doing that same thing. If I escort someone into my condo, then I feel like that should be fair play as it is my property and I am right there in front of management and security giving them permission. I see the disctinction anyway. 

[newnative]

1 hour ago, utalkin2me said:

Thailand can do what they want of course. I personally draw a distinction between folks being escorted into a condo unit by one of its owners, "these people will be staying with us for a couple weeks" type dialogue, and then property management employees doing that same thing. If I escort someone into my condo, then I feel like that should be fair play as it is my property and I am right there in front of management and security giving them permission. I see the disctinction anyway. 

I totally fail to see the distinction.  You're still breaking the law.  Sort of like: Yes, I stole from 7-11 but I was very polite and I dressed well; I certainly see there is a distinction from the way I steal and regular thieves.  Yeah, right.  But, keep whispering that to yourself if it makes you feel better.

[impulse]

10 hours ago, madmen said:

It has nothing to do with air bnb directly. its just a platform that can set up to rent  monthly nightly or yearly or what ever so they are doing nothing wrong at all......

.....Air bnb is a global Juggernaut that is unstoppable.

 

Didn't they say that about Napster?

 

[dbrenn]

On 5/16/2018 at 6:29 PM, Mattd said:

Personally I will give a big thumbs up for this IF it is enforced.

Weekdays sees me staying in a condo in central Bangkok, approx. 1km from Nana area and the last few months one of the owners on the same floor has been short term renting their unit, last lot were some young kids on holiday, 4 of them in the one condo, absolutely no thought for anybody else, coming home drunk at 3 am, slamming doors, shouting in the corridors and so on.

Most others there are working (myself included) and have to get up around 6 am, the last thing you need or want is this!

Agreed. AirBnB is a curse that destroys community life for residents. Good for Thailand in banning it.

[Destiny1990]

2 hours ago, dbrenn said:

Agreed. AirBnB is a curse that destroys community life for residents. Good for Thailand in banning it.

What community life?

with airbnb tenants atleast they stay just temporarily. if ur neighbor is a psychopath aggressive maniac deranged drunk condo owner then u be begging for airbnb tenants to enlighten ur day.

[KittenKong]

2 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

What community life?

with airbnb tenants atleast they stay just temporarily. if ur neighbor is a psychopath aggressive maniac deranged drunk condo owner then u be begging for airbnb tenants to enlighten ur day.

I've come across some maniacal condo owners in my time, but they are very rare.

The bulk of resident co-owners in most buildings are normal people who just want to have a nice peaceful time, and to see their building improve. Many long-term tenants also fall into this category.

 

Landlords and short-term tenants are frequently exactly the opposite. They are only in a building for what they can get out of it.

 

[bkk6060]

Abnb is such a very small piece of the online short term rental business.

Booking. Com

Agoda

Any many many of the other online booking formats are embracing short term rentals.

I think it is all out of control and not properly enforced.

The worst place I have seen in the country is The Base Condo Pattaya.

It was great for awhile but I moved out several months ago. 100's of people everyday the place has turned into a busy hotel.

I agree with others.

It is mostly a disaster of people with holiday mindsets disrespectful, loud and obnoxious.

[Mavideol]

15 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Can anyone confirm that this is correct?  I have a detached house and don't want to rent out at the moment but that could change in the future. There's also a hell of a lot of villas still advertised to rent by the day/week in places like Samui/Phuket.

only need hotel license if you have more than 5 rooms..... Thai law says owner has the right to profit from his/her investment, thus contradiction with the previous judgment in Pattaya, if AirBnB is illegal why  Thailand doesn't block it from operating here, some countries in Europe don't allow AirBnB to operate there but Thailand still allow it to run daily business, why? money is a big issue

[newnative]

43 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Abnb is such a very small piece of the online short term rental business.

Booking. Com

Agoda

Any many many of the other online booking formats are embracing short term rentals.

I think it is all out of control and not properly enforced.

The worst place I have seen in the country is The Base Condo Pattaya.

It was great for awhile but I moved out several months ago. 100's of people everyday the place has turned into a busy hotel.

I agree with others.

It is mostly a disaster of people with holiday mindsets disrespectful, loud and obnoxious.

      Yes.  One only needs to look at how The Base was when it first opened and compare it to what it has become.  So sad--and the result of massive, unchecked illegal daily rentals.  Owners don't want to live in such a place and neither do long-term renters, such as yourself.  Welcome to The Base Hotel.

[camble]

27 minutes ago, newnative said:

      Yes.  One only needs to look at how The Base was when it first opened and compare it to what it has become.  So sad--and the result of massive, unchecked illegal daily rentals.  Owners don't want to live in such a place and neither do long-term renters, such as yourself.  Welcome to The Base Hotel.

Was the same at View Talay 6.  I moved out in 2013, it used to be a great place to live before they turned it into a hotel.

[Destiny1990]

4 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Abnb is such a very small piece of the online short term rental business.

Booking. Com

Agoda

Any many many of the other online booking formats are embracing short term rentals.

I think it is all out of control and not properly enforced.

The worst place I have seen in the country is The Base Condo Pattaya.

It was great for awhile but I moved out several months ago. 100's of people everyday the place has turned into a busy hotel.

I agree with others.

It is mostly a disaster of people with holiday mindsets disrespectful, loud and obnoxious.

Hey if u could have mastered Chinese or the locale Indian dialect u could have fitted in better with the Base crowd. 

[KhaoYai]

Still no clearer on whether renting a detached house out is illegal or not.

 

Whilst I have some sympathy for someone living in a condo block where noisy tenants cause disruption, surely that can be the case with longer term tenants too?  I have a guy near me who loves playing super loud, heavy bass, Thai music in the early morning - sometimes as early as 7am.

 

Interesting to see the anti-landord lobby raising its head here too - any other business is OK but rent property out for a living and you're a demon.  Every business is in it for the money - its what makes the world go round.

 

Surely there is a way of dealing with bad tenants - other than banning short term rental?  I have a couple of houses in the UK that I rent out - the neighbours know my number and if there was a problem, all they would have to do is call me and I'd sort it.  Absentee landlords must have some sort of management in place or they couldn't hand over and receive keys, carry out cleaning and maintenance etc. That management could also be responsible for sorting disruptive tenants.

 

This to me, is a case of the many spoiling things for the few. When I stay away I often rent a condo or house, I prefer it and its often a better option for families.  Making the landlord responsible for the peaceful running of the unit is surely better than an outright ban? Those who fail to do so could be banned for a term - that would make them live up to their responsibilities.

 

Given the other things they put up with, I'm not so sure the Thai government is really so interested in preventing short term rentals.  I have a mate who lives in Bangkok close to a tour bus depot, he is often woken at stupid o'clock by these buses leaving and playing hideously noisy music - I'm sure you've all heard them passing you on the street. He's complained several times but nothing has been done. I suspect pressure from the hotel industry is far more likely to be the reason that short term rentals were banned. The decision was most likely made on the golf course, rather than the courtroom.

 

The world continuosly changes - tourism is no exception but yet again Thailand goes against the trend - the rest of the world is crazy isn't it?

[KittenKong]

3 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Whilst I have some sympathy for someone living in a condo block where noisy tenants cause disruption, surely that can be the case with longer term tenants too?  I have a guy near me who loves playing super loud, heavy bass, Thai music in the early morning - sometimes as early as 7am.

 

Your building has management and security. It is their job to stop nuisances like that.

 

3 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Interesting to see the anti-landord lobby raising its head here too - any other business is OK but rent property out for a living and you're a demon.  Every business is in it for the money - its what makes the world go round.

I have no problem with any business operating in the right place. But a condo building is NOT the right place for a hotel or apartment business. Hotels and apartments are the right places for those businesses, and that's why they exist.

 

I would complain just as much if a car workshop or a restaurant opened up in my condo building: they dont belong there.

[KhaoYai]

3 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

Your building has management and security. It is their job to stop nuisances like that.

My 'building' is a detached house - the management and security would be me or my manager if I was letting it out.

[KhaoYai]

3 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

 

I have no problem with any business operating in the right place. But a condo building is NOT the right place for a hotel or apartment business. Hotels and apartments are the right places for those businesses, and that's why they exist.

Are you saying that its legal to rent an apartment out short term?  How are you defining 'apartment'?  I'm pretty sure the court ruling has no distinction between either (if there is one).  I'm trying to establish whether or not the ruling applies to detatched houses.

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

My 'building' is a detached house - the management and security would be me or my manager if I was letting it out.

I see. I was replying to your comment about condo buildings.

 

Your local public health department may be able to do something about this, or your local head man in a village. Unfortunately loud noise from neighbours is widely known to be a potential hazard in Thai houses, which is one reason why I would never buy one.

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

Are you saying that its legal to rent an apartment out short term?  How are you defining 'apartment'? 

Apartment buildings are designed to be rented out (fairly) short-term. Condos most definitely are not. Condos are designed to be residential. This is why they are sold individually.

The Hotel Act does apply to apartments also in as much as nightly rentals are not allowed without registration and compliance with safety laws.

 

The difference between a condo and an apartment is that each condo unit has a chanote whereas an apartment building normally only has only one chanote and one owner.

[Seeall]

On 2/15/2019 at 9:18 AM, Mavideol said:

only need hotel license if you have more than 5 rooms..... Thai law says owner has the right to profit from his/her investment, thus contradiction with the previous judgment in Pattaya, if AirBnB is illegal why  Thailand doesn't block it from operating here, some countries in Europe don't allow AirBnB to operate there but Thailand still allow it to run daily business, why? money is a big issue

I  have looked into this, its called the 20/5 rule  or so.. but some lawyers say 

1/ Need to register  with the hotel registrar (dont ask me who/where)

 

2/ Only for Thai owners (sounds like BS)