Hundreds in Bangkok mark anniversary of army crackdown

[rooster59]

Hundreds in Bangkok mark anniversary of army crackdown

 

Protesters gather in front of a department store to mark the anniversary of a deadly army crackdown on an anti-government protest in 2010, in central Bangkok, Thailand May 19, 2018. REUTERS/Panu Wongcha-um

 

BANGKOK (Reuters) - Hundreds of people gathered in Bangkok on Saturday to mark the anniversary of a deadly army crackdown on an anti-government protest in 2010 that killed 91 people and injured hundreds, as pressure builds on the ruling junta to hold a general election.

 

The gathering took place just days before the fourth anniversary of a May 2014 coup that ousted a civilian government and as the junta faces a growing public perception crisis.

 

The military says the 2014 coup was necessary to restore order, but critics accuse it of holding on to power longer than necessary by repeatedly delaying the date of a general election which is now tentatively set for February 2019.

 

At the event in Bangkok on Saturday, around 200 members of the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) group, known as the "red shirts", lit candles and laid flowers at a major intersection, where the weeks-long street demonstration came to a bloody end.

 

Activists on Saturday chanted: "People were killed here".

 

No group or individual has been prosecuted for the crackdown and deaths.

 

"There is still no justice from what happened in 2010," said Sombat Boonngamanong, a prominent red shirt activist.

 

Others spoke about the current, military administration.

 

"We still feel robbed because of the coup," said a 49-year- old woman who only wanted to be identified at Noi.

"Our country is going backwards," she said.

 

The 2010 protest stemmed from a long-running rivalry between supporters of populist former, ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and the pro-military, conservative establishment.

 

Thaksin, a telecommunications tycoon turned prime minister, won huge support among the poor but the loathing of the royalist establishment, largely over accusations of corruption.

 

His sister, former Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, was ousted in the 2014 coup.

 

Saturday's gathering took place amid police security and in violation of a junta ban on political gatherings of more than five people. The event ended peacefully.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-05-20

[Anak Nakal]

It is a sad, sad day.

R.I.P.

[kannot]

Welcome to Thailand where nothing ever changes

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed. 

[Cadbury]

1 hour ago, rooster59 said:

At the event in Bangkok on Saturday, around 200 members of the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) group, known as the "red shirts", lit candles and laid flowers at a major intersection, where the weeks-long street demonstration came to a bloody end.

 

I remember walking through the protest area underneath the BTS around the stalls and seeing the photos of the faces and bodies of those shot. A photo of the protest rally. 

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, Anak Nakal said:

It is a sad, sad day.

R.I.P.

Sad because the people who have the orders to use live rounds and excessive force are still walking free. 

[humbug]

i remember the morning after they shot people in the temple next to paragon. Monks covering and painting over the bullet holes. Or the buses of special forces leaving in the morning near lumpini to be replaced with 18 year old kid soldiers with 100 year old rifles .So the international news corps could have their photos without showing the real murderers.

 

Viva the revolution!

[MaeJoMTB]

2 hours ago, rooster59 said:

repeatedly delaying the date of a general election which is now tentatively set for February 2019.

I predict this election will never happen.

Edited May 20, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[poohy]

2 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

I predict this election will never happen.

Highly doubtful an election will take place, they cannot and will not give up, and the people  actually pulling the stings! well... the last thing they want is free n fair elections

 

Sadly but Most probably come when forced, by another coup or an uprising

[jenny2017]

13 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

I predict this election will never happen.

Which election are you talking about? 

[Lupatria]

38 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

I predict this election will never happen.

Wait until you spot the first "election" placards similar to this:

 

      

[Thailand]

47 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

I predict this election will never happen.

Election is pretty much nailed on next year now that the current ptb have all their ducks in a row to ensure the result and that the current incumbents will maintain the status quo with perhaps an article 88 to replace the current omnipotent article 44.

[KiwiKiwi]

49 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

I predict this election will never happen.

I think it probably will be held, but not in February. There's a certain pomp and circumstance event which is the final meaningful act of this atrocious, kleptocratic and mendacious government. Personally, I don't think that event will take place, all the signs are that events will overtake it and the prophecy will be fulfilled.

 

The beginning of very unhappy times in Thailand I think.

Edited May 20, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[Eligius]

1 hour ago, KiwiKiwi said:

I think it probably will be held, but not in February. There's a certain pomp and circumstance event which is the final meaningful act of this atrocious, kleptocratic and mendacious government. Personally, I don't think that event will take place, all the signs are that events will overtake it and the prophecy will be fulfilled.

 

The beginning of very unhappy times in Thailand I think.

I agree with you, Kiwikiwi: I think eventually some fake form of 'election' will be held - but for the longest time, the junta will find it easier to carry on business as per usual (without all the hassle of organising and rigging an 'election'). It is quite possible that an event of national sadness will supervene and delay the 'election' by nearly another year. As for the happy, pomp-and-circumstance event: yes, I do wonder if that ever will take place. Probably it will only happen - if at all -  when the timing best suits the oppressive, nationalistic and propagandistic agenda of the collective, symbiotic Powers That Should Never Be.

 

Edited May 20, 2018 by Eligius

[Krataiboy]

Only hundreds? It deserved many thousands.

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Sad because the people who have the orders to use live rounds and excessive force are still walking free. 

 

As are those who funded and orchestrated the insurgency. And it was for the benefit of the masses.

[Baerboxer]

19 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Only hundreds? It deserved many thousands.

 

Nobody hiring rent-a-mob it seems.

[RichardColeman]

24 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Only hundreds? It deserved many thousands.

Come on be fair, the Royal wedding was on TV !

[TKDfella]

1 hour ago, Krataiboy said:

Only hundreds? It deserved many thousands.

As I keep saying (other related threads) if the people won't stand up, back politicians, do something, then it's a lost cause. In other countries thousands do demonstrate and recently only about Pres. Trump's visit to the UK. Imagine what they'd do there if confronted with a junta? I don't think it would be Mai Ben Rai Na.

Edited May 20, 2018 by TKDfella

[BuaBS]

The anniverary of 4 years of peace .

[The Deerhunter]

9 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Sad because the people who have the orders to use live rounds and excessive force are still walking free. 

Equally sad it remains to be that it was necessary to issue live rounds in the face of people threatening to burn Bangkok.   Quote:  "If a million of you bring one litre of petrol each we will have a million litres of petrol."   (Is that nice peace-loving man in jail or out at the moment? I keep losing track.)  As prime minister or head of the emergency committee mist people including me and many of the nay-sayers would have in all truth done the same thing (if we were not talking, eight years later  about a red shirt protest.  (Yes, we all know they were gentle peace-loving folk of pure heart who meant no harm to anyone or any shopping malls)

Edited May 20, 2018 by The Deerhunter

[Eric Loh]

12 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

Equally sad it remains to be that it was necessary to issue live rounds in the face of people threatening to burn Bangkok.   Quote:  "If a million of you bring one litre of petrol each we will have a million litres of petrol."   (Is that nice peace-loving man in jail or out at the moment? I keep losing track.)  As prime minister or head of the emergency committee mist people including me and many of the nay-sayers would have in all truth done the same thing (if we were not talking, eight years later  about a red shirt protest.  (Yes, we all know they were gentle peace-loving folk of pure heart who meant no harm to anyone or any shopping malls)

I guess it is like that Jeff Savage guy who was caught on tape saying lots of things about burning because he was stressed and really all bravado and never had the intention to be involved. Strange no red shirts were convicted for burning. Some theorized it was staged. I am sure you disagree. In any case, how you equate burning and the killing of 80 unarmed citizens. 

[JAG]

44 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

Equally sad it remains to be that it was necessary to issue live rounds in the face of people threatening to burn Bangkok.   Quote:  "If a million of you bring one litre of petrol each we will have a million litres of petrol."   (Is that nice peace-loving man in jail or out at the moment? I keep losing track.)  As prime minister or head of the emergency committee mist people including me and many of the nay-sayers would have in all truth done the same thing (if we were not talking, eight years later  about a red shirt protest.  (Yes, we all know they were gentle peace-loving folk of pure heart who meant no harm to anyone or any shopping malls)

Would you have shot them when they were taking refuge - unarmed - in a temple?

 

Would you have shot wounded lying in front of the temple?

 

Would you have shot a clearly identifiable medic (nurse) treating those wounded?

 

I ask because that is what did happen.

[The Deerhunter]

11 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

I guess it is like that Jeff Savage guy who was caught on tape saying lots of things about burning because he was stressed and really all bravado and never had the intention to be involved. Strange no red shirts were convicted for burning. Some theorized it was staged. I am sure you disagree. In any case, how you equate burning and the killing of 80 unarmed citizens. 

I only know Jatuporn talking about burning so don't try to deflect Jatuporn's words onto Jeff Savage whoever he is.  You know exactly what  and who I am talking about. And who said the "protesters"  were unarmed except you , now.  I'll bet there was guns and they were got out real quicksmart .  Eight years later I cannot remember whether protesters were proven to have guns there or not.   But of course it is convenient for you  to say that the ones killed were all unarmed.  Where is your proof of that?   There were people of all persuasions  and all coloured clothes running around with guns and I am sure I remember reports of redshirts being armed.  The buildings set fire to were in red-shirt controlled areas.  Nobody was charged.   That proves exactly what?   That no police were in the area to see who set the fires, that's all.  I guess no one saw who did it but equally there were no reports of red shirts catching yellow shirts setting fire to buildings in red shirt controlled areas.   

 

Who ever was in charge of the state of emergency, and it doesn't matter who, had a responsibility to protect life & property in Bangkok.  You are apparently a business person with an understanding of responsibility for difficult decisions regarding peoples' livelihoods, if not their actual lives. You or I or whoever was in charge would have been faced with difficult decisions; with the threat of Jatuporn to "burn Bangkok" and asking for the where-with-all to do so.  I cannot remember if the mall was on fire by the time the in-question shots were fired but when a "line in the sand" was eventually crossed, everyone knew shots would be fired.   If there was no instruction to issue live ammunition was given by (you, me or whoever's responsibility it was), then that person would have been in dereliction of  his or her duty.   A line in the sand would have been drawn and at some time things were bound to get nasty.  It usually has in the past.   The situation was way beyond pleasant dialogue.  Thaksin's paid lap dogs were threatening to burn Bangkok.  How long was it going to remain safe there?    Those who remained there were fools and I am sorry for them and their families that they stayed and were  killed.   I hope your peaceful red shirts have learned that there is a difference between peaceful protesting and threatening to burn the capital among other threats.

[Eric Loh]

6 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

I only know Jatuporn talking about burning so don't try to deflect Jatuporn's words onto Jeff Savage whoever he is.  You know exactly what  and who I am talking about. And who said the "protesters"  were unarmed except you , now.  I'll bet there was guns and they were got out real quicksmart .  Eight years later I cannot remember whether protesters were proven to have guns there or not.   But of course it is convenient for you  to say that the ones killed were all unarmed.  Where is your proof of that?   There were people of all persuasions  and all coloured clothes running around with guns and I am sure I remember reports of redshirts being armed.  The buildings set fire to were in red-shirt controlled areas.  Nobody was charged.   That proves exactly what?   That no police were in the area to see who set the fires, that's all.  I guess no one saw who did it but equally there were no reports of red shirts catching yellow shirts setting fire to buildings in red shirt controlled areas.   

 

Who ever was in charge of the state of emergency, and it doesn't matter who, had a responsibility to protect life & property in Bangkok.  You are apparently a business person with an understanding of responsibility for difficult decisions regarding peoples' livelihoods, if not their actual lives. You or I or whoever was in charge would have been faced with difficult decisions; with the threat of Jatuporn to "burn Bangkok" and asking for the where-with-all to do so.  I cannot remember if the mall was on fire by the time the in-question shots were fired but when a "line in the sand" was eventually crossed, everyone knew shots would be fired.   If there was no instruction to issue live ammunition was given by (you, me or whoever's responsibility it was), then that person would have been in dereliction of  his or her duty.   A line in the sand would have been drawn and at some time things were bound to get nasty.  It usually has in the past.   The situation was way beyond pleasant dialogue.  Thaksin's paid lap dogs were threatening to burn Bangkok.  How long was it going to remain safe there?    Those who remained there were fools and I am sorry for them and their families that they stayed and were  killed.   I hope your peaceful red shirts have learned that there is a difference between peaceful protesting and threatening to burn the capital among other threats.

Now don’t get exited. You ain’t convincing anyone. Your words that’s all. Has Jatuporn being charged for the burning or any red shirts convicted. The burning was in between the chaos after the military started shootings with live rounds. During that chaos and mayhem, someone touch the buildings. We will leave that to the investigating agencies and the courts to nail those involved. But 8 years, there are still no evidence to convict. Maybe it’s the redshirts, black shirts, blue shirts, yellow or even green shirts. Until we have clear cut evidence and conviction, you and me are just speculating. 

[The Deerhunter]

19 minutes ago, JAG said:

Would you have shot them when they were taking refuge - unarmed - in a temple?

 

Would you have shot wounded lying in front of the temple?

 

Would you have shot a clearly identifiable medic (nurse) treating those wounded?

 

I ask because that is what did happen.

I have not been a soldier in those circumstances but soldiers are trained to kill. Police are meant to be trained serve and protect.  Whenever situations get this hairy, bad things are bound to happen.   My memory  (8 years later) was that police and army were involved.   You could be asking  "Why did the peaceful redshirts allow it to get so far out of control?"  They knew what they were facing and they persisted in the protest and authorities' ultimatums to disband had been ignored.   And their leaders were still threatening to burn the capital.   Do the protesters have no part of responsibility in this unfortunate  but predictable disaster?  It was totally the making of the authorities?

[JAG]

13 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

.   I hope your peaceful red shirts have learned that there is a difference between peaceful protesting and threatening to burn the capital among other threats.

I suggest the one thing that the Redshirts remember is that the person who ran the operation to disperse them last time, an operation which involved shooting a  significant number of them, many as has been pointed out sheltering unarmed in a temple, and including wounded and those treating wounded, is now leading the junta. They remember what he did, and what he was prepared to do, and they expect him to do the same or worse again. That threat, which is implicit in the very existence of this junta, is why, as so many have lamented lately, so few are prepared to come out and protest. They remember.

 

Personally I doubt whether it will take much for the junta to turn that threat into action, "pour encourager les autres". Whether that would work, or light a really big fire I don't know.

[The Deerhunter]

Just now, Eric Loh said:

Now don’t get exited. You ain’t convincing anyone. Your words that’s all. Has Jatuporn being charged for the burning or any red shirts convicted. The burning was in between the chaos after the military started shootings with live rounds. During that chaos and mayhem, someone touch the buildings. We will leave that to the investigating agencies and the courts to nail those involved. But 8 years, there are still no evidence to convict. Maybe it’s the redshirts, black shirts, blue shirts, yellow or even green shirts. Until we have clear cut evidence and conviction, you and me are just speculating. 

And that wasn't really Jatuporn asking for a million litres of petrol to burn Bangkok?   And if it was your job, you would not have considered having live ammunition available in case shooting started from the other side?   Just a few innocent flag waving protesters that the nasty authorities picked on.......????    Get Real!!!   It was a difficult situation and it went wrong. (See my reply to Jag above)   By the way, you and a core of a few others have been consistently excited by this matter for about 8 years now with scores or possibly hundreds of posts on it or associated complaints of redshirt (and associated others) being unjustly wronged .    So don't tell me to not get excited!   

[JAG]

11 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

I have not been a soldier in those circumstances but soldiers are trained to kill. Police are meant to be trained serve and protect.  Whenever situations get this hairy, bad things are bound to happen.   My memory  (8 years later) was that police and army were involved.   You could be asking  "Why did the peaceful redshirts allow it to get so far out of control?"  They knew what they were facing and they persisted in the protest and authorities' ultimatums to disband had been ignored.   And their leaders were still threatening to burn the capital.   Do the protesters have no part of responsibility in this unfortunate  but predictable disaster?  It was totally the making of the authorities?

I have been a soldier, and faced hostile crowds in an urban environment. What they did was blatantly criminal, open murder, in clear breach of the Hague Conventions (Geneva Convention), and the international laws of armed conflict. I can categorically state that in my army, if I had done that, I would have gone to prison. For a long time.

[The Deerhunter]

1 minute ago, JAG said:

I suggest the one thing that the Redshirts remember is that the person who ran the operation to disperse them last time, an operation which involved shooting a  significant number of them, many as has been pointed out sheltering unarmed in a temple, and including wounded and those treating wounded, is now leading the junta. They remember what he did, and what he was prepared to do, and they expect him to do the same or worse again. That threat, which is implicit in the very existence of this junta, is why, as so many have lamented lately, so few are prepared to come out and protest. They remember.

 

Personally I doubt whether it will take much for the junta to turn that threat into action, "pour encourager les autres". Whether that would work, or light a really big fire I don't know.

Your Avatar says it all.  And I am no lover of juntas, Military coups or other such.   My Thai family here thought the coup was great and i told them it was not the way to resolve these things.  I think most would agree with me now.   So where do we find the impossible, an honest politician,  Thailand's real Lee Kuan Yew or Mahatma Ghandi if you wish to lead this sorry country out of this repetitive bad habit of bad governments punctuated by coups?