Guest houses must now get a hotel license--any info?

[JAZZDOG]

24 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

The accommodation sector of the black economy has mushroomed in the last few years with the advent of AirBnB, Facebook ads, Chinese advertising to the Chinese and so on. No income tax, no company tax, no VAT, no hotel licence fee, etc.

 

The Thai govt. depts., govt. agencies such as the police, local govt. entities are always looking for sectors of the economy that are not "taxed" either officially or through bribes and extortion. These civil servants, police, local govt. officers constantly need to bolster income streams so their positions yield sufficient income each year to support their family, to bung the required amount upstairs to their boss, to pay off their initial investment buying in and to provide enough to buy their next promotion.

 

Put these two together and you get a massive crackdown on the guesthouse industry. They won't destroy it but they certainly will have their 10%.

Pretty much happens every year during low season and the percentage not nearly that high, just enough to get folks attention and then everything will be as it was. Closing down large sectors of ST housing surely doesn't bolster income streams.

[scottiejohn]

1 hour ago, Vacuum said:

I for one, would applaud this.

Why?

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

 CSHouse can be booked on booking.com for 1400baht/night with breakfast. Nice place rated 8.4 

CS House is closed.  Try looking at the business instead of the internet.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, JAZZDOG said:

Pretty much happens every year during low season and the percentage not nearly that high, just enough to get folks attention and then everything will be as it was. Closing down large sectors of ST housing surely doesn't bolster income streams.

Closing guesthouses and generating stories about it in the newspapers doesn't happen every year.  Now you are just in denial about what people can see with their own eyes.

[JAZZDOG]

9 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Closing guesthouses and generating stories about it in the newspapers doesn't happen every year.  Now you are just in denial about what people can see with their own eyes.

Really, exactly one year ago;

 

 

[cmsally]

This year is not normal, it is the enforcement of the Hotel Act and the Building Control Act (which was updated in 2016).

Operating a Hotel Business New regulations

 

Quote

If alterations need to be carried out before the use of the building is changed, an application notifying the alterations must be filed within two years from the effective date of the Ministerial Regulation.

I would say that information has been sketchy at best to non existent. There were places that had a hotel license but would not qualify for the building license and would have to make alterations. The period for doing those was 2 years which I presume runs out this August. The problem is that this regulation is applied retroactively and is really only suitable for larger hotels.

 

[JAZZDOG]

4 minutes ago, cmsally said:

This year is not normal, it is the enforcement of the Hotel Act and the Building Control Act (which was updated in 2016).

Operating a Hotel Business New regulations

 

I would say that information has been sketchy at best to non existent. There were places that had a hotel license but would not qualify for the building license and would have to make alterations. The period for doing those was 2 years which I presume runs out this August. The problem is that this regulation is applied retroactively and is really only suitable for larger hotels.

 

If it relates to HA 2016 they are jumping the gun. Both of those acts relate to buildings per the original building permit. Any structure which was not permitted as a hotel in accordance with these two Acts will not possibly be able to conform. The result, if enforced per the Acts 2016 will condemn 90% of the existing ST housing which well never happen. All that going is cage rattling.

[heybruce]

9 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

Really, exactly one year ago;

 

 

Are you aware that you are posting in the Chiang Mai forum?

[JAZZDOG]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

Are you aware that you are posting in the Chiang Mai forum?

People are claiming hundreds of hotels are being closed nationwide and that is questionable as a few have been verified. The point I was making is that these crackdowns occur every year for different contrived reasons, nothing new, life goes on.

[heybruce]

14 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

People are claiming hundreds of hotels are being closed nationwide and that is questionable as a few have been verified. The point I was making is that these crackdowns occur every year for different contrived reasons, nothing new, life goes on.

No, people in Chiang Mai are claiming that many guesthouses have been closed down, it has been confirmed in the local news, and nobody has suggested that this is a routine thing in Chiang Mai.

[JAZZDOG]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

No, people in Chiang Mai are claiming that many guesthouses have been closed down, it has been confirmed in the local news, and nobody has suggested that this is a routine thing in Chiang Mai.

I will wager that they will be back open . CSHouse is taking reservations on all it's hosting sites so apparently they have sorted it out. Not questioning what you observe but TV is widely read and there is not one first hand report or a friend of an owner reporting their place has been closed anywhere but CM. One would think a story with far reaching ramifications like this would have more legs.

[cmsally]

The reality is that some have closed, some are trying to do expensive modifications to meet the requirements and some are left in a legal limbo because they will not be able to meet the requirements.

The fact is some places are still there online but have in reality a big closed sign on the gate. Booking sites also seem to be in a state of confusion with one noticeably doing an "owner verification" the past couple of weeks and some now demanding hotel licenses to sign up.

The new building permit has already been used as a prerequisite for paying one of the Tesabahn taxes, so anyone without it will be unable to pay that tax. They will basically be left in a legal limbo because smaller establishments have been left out of the legal configeration. How this pans out is anyone's guess. In my opinion the system seems rigged against small business and in favour of the large and very cashed up establishments.From what I have seen the local officials understand the situation well but these directives come from the top. This is a perfect example of a top level directive going wrong and no system to change or appeal the consequences at any stage along the way.

In other words one big administrative clusterfuk.

[JAZZDOG]

7 minutes ago, cmsally said:

The reality is that some have closed, some are trying to do expensive modifications to meet the requirements and some are left in a legal limbo because they will not be able to meet the requirements.

The fact is some places are still there online but have in reality a big closed sign on the gate. Booking sites also seem to be in a state of confusion with one noticeably doing an "owner verification" the past couple of weeks and some now demanding hotel licenses to sign up.

The new building permit has already been used as a prerequisite for paying one of the Tesabahn taxes, so anyone without it will be unable to pay that tax. They will basically be left in a legal limbo because smaller establishments have been left out of the legal configeration. How this pans out is anyone's guess. In my opinion the system seems rigged against small business and in favour of the large and very cashed up establishments.From what I have seen the local officials understand the situation well but these directives come from the top. This is a perfect example of a top level directive going wrong and no system to change or appeal the consequences at any stage along the way.

In other words one big administrative clusterfuk.

Thanks, best insight so far. I think maybe a matter like many places the government issues an act but fails to think thru what the realties will be. Added to that they then must save face and look away, not taking responsibility when it goes to shit.

[heybruce]

59 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

I will wager that they will be back open . CSHouse is taking reservations on all it's hosting sites so apparently they have sorted it out. Not questioning what you observe but TV is widely read and there is not one first hand report or a friend of an owner reporting their place has been closed anywhere but CM. One would think a story with far reaching ramifications like this would have more legs.

My knowledge of CS House comes from a friend who lives next door to it and has a financial interest.  CS House is definitely closed. 

 

This is a useful lesson about hotel booking sites--verify that you will get what you thought you reserved.

[johnoko]

Today several guesthouse owners from the wat Lamchang area will be attending a panel discussion on the subject on Thai PBS which also include a phone in with some city officials. Hopeful we will get some more clarity from this discussion 

[JAZZDOG]

6 minutes ago, johnoko said:

Today several guesthouse owners from the wat Lamchang area will be attending a panel discussion on the subject on Thai PBS which also include a phone in with some city officials. Hopeful we will get some more clarity from this discussion 

Update would be appreciated, thanks

[LomSak27]

4 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

Are you aware that you are posting in the Chiang Mai forum?

People are claiming hundreds of hotels are being closed nationwide and that is questionable as a few have been verified. The point I was making is that these crackdowns occur every year for different contrived reasons, nothing new, life goes on.

I am going to be up there in 2 weeks so appreciate on the spot reports. Jazz, enjoy the over views of the hotel industry in general, but looking for Chiang Mai specific information. Why don't you get out there and check it out - if your in Chiang Mai    

[moe666]

For the long term this could affect more than the hotels, fewer people could come to CM as there will be fewer rooms, fewer motorbike rentals, fewer meals served at small resturants, fewer scarves sold, fewer everything sold when fewer people come. Talk about screwing the tourist trade.

[JAZZDOG]

1 hour ago, LomSak27 said:

I am going to be up there in 2 weeks so appreciate on the spot reports. Jazz, enjoy the over views of the hotel industry in general, but looking for Chiang Mai specific information. Why don't you get out there and check it out - if your in Chiang Mai    

This hysteria is not confined to CM which claimed there were over two hundred hotels closed down with the exception of one which is currently taking reservations on several hosting sites which makes no sense. With all these hundreds of closures there seems like there would be some details forthcoming but there not. I know if Florida decided to shut down hundreds of hotels big and small it would be news. One would think there would be a hotel owner that follows TV would post something. Maybe something on PBS later today I was told.

[johnoko]

6 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

This hysteria is not confined to CM which claimed there were over two hundred hotels closed down with the exception of one which is currently taking reservations on several hosting sites which makes no sense. With all these hundreds of closures there seems like there would be some details forthcoming but there not. I know if Florida decided to shut down hundreds of hotels big and small it would be news. One would think there would be a hotel owner that follows TV would post something. Maybe something on PBS later today I was told.

As I mentioned before there has been extensive coverage  of this issue on all the major and minor Thai language TV channels. As channel 3,5,7 Thai PBS, Wetv and many more minor channels and websites.   

[LomSak27]

Thanks for NOT posting about Chiang Mai. It is not like I expected you too     

 

4 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

This hysteria 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, cmsally said:

The reality is that some have closed, some are trying to do expensive modifications to meet the requirements and some are left in a legal limbo because they will not be able to meet the requirements.

The fact is some places are still there online but have in reality a big closed sign on the gate. Booking sites also seem to be in a state of confusion with one noticeably doing an "owner verification" the past couple of weeks and some now demanding hotel licenses to sign up.

The new building permit has already been used as a prerequisite for paying one of the Tesabahn taxes, so anyone without it will be unable to pay that tax. They will basically be left in a legal limbo because smaller establishments have been left out of the legal configeration. How this pans out is anyone's guess. In my opinion the system seems rigged against small business and in favour of the large and very cashed up establishments.From what I have seen the local officials understand the situation well but these directives come from the top. This is a perfect example of a top level directive going wrong and no system to change or appeal the consequences at any stage along the way.

In other words one big administrative clusterfuk.

I posted on the Bkk forum asking about closures in the Khao San area, which would be the only equivalent, IMO, of the C M situation, and had no replies saying guest houses in Khao San were closed. I can only assume that this is a C M thing and not nation wide. C M night life industry is obviously penalised by excessively restrictive opening hours, so I am not surprised that the local authorities are prepared to act excessively in penalising business.

IMO it's all about the usual situation, and little to do with actual hotel regulations. I find it hard to believe that they will actually close all the small places inside the moat as that would devastate the backpacker demographic, which isn't going to transfer to expensive hotels. Obviously, it's impossible for them to qualify on parking or green space, as inside the moat is all built up. Even expensive hotels don't have enough parking inside the moat.

The real danger though, IMO, is that many places call the bluff and refuse to pay up, which could precipitate a crisis.

If it's true that the police are enforcing something before it's actually legally enforceable, it is very disturbing.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, LomSak27 said:

I am going to be up there in 2 weeks so appreciate on the spot reports. Jazz, enjoy the over views of the hotel industry in general, but looking for Chiang Mai specific information. Why don't you get out there and check it out - if your in Chiang Mai    

In the night market area, or at least where I go in that area, I haven't seen any guest house closures. Seems to be an inside the moat thing.

[evenstevens]

after 10 pages.and 140 replys. this topic has as mutch legs.or less then the so called  ban of selling of achol within a certain distance of a schools etc etc a couple years back or so  .which resulted zilch.so silent investors take a valium and the sun will rise again . e/s assures you of that.. a nice afternoon to all

[johnoko]

2 minutes ago, evenstevens said:

after 10 pages.and 140 replys. this topic has as mutch legs.or less then the so called  ban of selling of achol within a certain distance of a schools etc etc a couple years back or so  .which resulted zilch.so silent investors take a valium and the sun will rise again . e/s assures you of that.. a nice afternoon to all

But for this thing to go away a lot of public pressure is needed as back when they try to introduce the ban on loa cow shop near schools. As then many business owners are petitioning several civil organisations and parts of the government. But with out any puss back this wont be possible and the rules wouldn't be changed or shelved. And there has been a lot done by owners of guesthouses and related businesses which hasn't been seen by the general public 

[JAZZDOG]

6 minutes ago, johnoko said:

But for this thing to go away a lot of public pressure is needed as back when they try to introduce the ban on loa cow shop near schools. As then many business owners are petitioning several civil organisations and parts of the government. But with out any puss back this wont be possible and the rules wouldn't be changed or shelved. And there has been a lot done by owners of guesthouses and related businesses which hasn't been seen by the general public 

Seeking public support and pushback stealth, really?

[evenstevens]

27 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

Seeking public support and pushback stealth, really?

just another never been off  the tarry road  . knee jerk.  remark  with respect to all  have seen many black clouds  .such as this thread suggests.. but turns out to be bright and sunny.  in due course .  .take each day as it comes. here ( good or bad.) and those black clouds will decend into the sunset.       go the soccer roo.s  in a couple hrs  against the frogs.in the world cup.good arvo to all

Edited June 16, 2018 by evenstevens

[Loaded]

Drove along moonmuang soi 9 and again all I saw was open guest houses and hotels. This according to a previous poster is a wasteland of abandoned dreams. What places exactly are closed along here?

Sent from my CPH1701 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[evenstevens]

12 minutes ago, Loaded said:

Drove along moonmuang soi 9 and again all I saw was open guest houses and hotels. This according to a previous poster is a wasteland of abandoned dreams. What places exactly are closed along here?

Sent from my CPH1701 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

the cream always rises to the top

[BestB]

Lots of guessing and speculating here, I have first had experience with this in Pattaya.

 

Forgive very long post, but hopefully it will help other business owners and clear up the confusion

 

I have been running a boutique hotel in Pattaya for over 8 years.

 

I was not required to have hotel license, only room for rent license, which i have, along with all other necessary licences, including tax receipts

 

Earlier this week, i believe about 8 tourist police officers, rushed in from all sides of the hotel.

 

They were grabbing and touching everything, asking to see "bayanuyat", i have all my licenses displayed.

 

They did not accept that , took bookings, along with price list, receipts and everything else they could carry away

 

I was taken to tourist police headquarters  where i was put in the big room along with another about 8 people.

 

As i learned later, they were hotel owners and managers, in total another 5 hotels.

 

Since about 16:00pm, to 23:00 pm we were held there, while officers were filling out paperwork.photo's etc

 

In the end, we were told, we are all under arrest for illegally operating business and now would be taken down to police station to be charged.

 

Once we arrived in police station, we were thrown into jail, general population, Not the holding room but locked up in the cells.

 

Through some "negotiations" we were given an option to pay 150 000 bond, to be released but still to go to court.

 

I had some good friends "assist" me, i chose not to pay 150 000 and stayed locked up.

 

My friends, spoke to his friends and with small token of appreciation, head prosecutor agreed to prepare court documents in the middle of the night, so i could be taken to court in the morning, otherwise its 3-5 days wait to front the court, meaning 3-5 days locked up

 

Will not talk about the cells, unless someone needs to know.

 

Head prosecutor, suggested i do not request translator and speak to court directly(my thai was good enough according to him and again according to him Thai judges do like foreigners who speak Thai and go more lenient.

 

Believe it or not, but this is exactly what happened, Judge was about 1/3 lenient towards me than towards Thai owners.

 

Anyhow, if anyone need more detailed information about the raid and arrest process, just ask away and i will share.

 

Now on to getting correct license.

 

Putting it as basic as possible, but no chance in hell.

 

The new requirements simply can not be met by already existing buildings.

 

Again i good friend with "good" connections, arranged a meeting with the "right" people and even with offers to be "very greatfull" it just not possible and here is why

 

So one manages to pass all the new regulations, such as parking, green zone, 2 staircases, sprinkler system (keep in mind cost of adding all of this is staggering) now comes the next problem.

 

Was building built with all correct approvals? if it was, great, were submitted building plans for hotel? Lets be creative and imagine it was so and all is correct, now we have another problem which is distance from the road and distance from other buildings.

 

Basically what i am saying is there is no way for an existing building to get legal, no matter the size of it.

 

Saying all of that, police, judge, and all other officials do not agree with this requirements and do not wish to enforce it, however are ordered and forced to do so from BKK.

 

The silliness and lack of any and all thinking with this new regs is trully  astonishing.

 

So with rooms for rent license, building does not need any parking where people rent by the month, but for a hotel license where people rent by the day, parking is required,  I am almost certain, tourists in hotel are less likely to own a vehicle than a resident staying for a month

 

Then of course the fire safety, again tourist must be safe, but seems to be acceptable for residents to burn?

 

Green zones and everything else makes just as little sense as the rest of it.