SPECIAL REPORT: Thai junta steers education reform to nowhere

[Eric Loh]

"Three education ministers in 4 years !!!"

 

The first 2 were the Betsy Devos clones. Admiral and General who knew nothing about education were just placed into the position as reward just like Betsy Devos. So 2 wasted years and a bloated Ministry of Education. Thailand Ministry of Education holds the world record of having the largest ministries of 30,000 civil servants. China's ministry of education has just 1,000 civil servants serving a population of 1.4 B. 

 

Maybe the current education minister Khun Teerakiat who had just year and half tenure can offer some hope. At least he got the right background and I was told he is very hands-on visiting schools and listening to teachers. He rather pro-active and working with the British Council to improve teachers English language skill. I hope the next government will give him the chance to implement policies and initiatives. The bane of education reform is the number of education ministers changes which is very disruptive to policies, projects and initiatives; 21 education ministers in last 18 years. 

[connda]

Wow.  This is beyond pathetic.  But then, you don't want the serfs to be too smart.  Just smart enough to do the manual labor and toiling.  Anymore smart than that and they start to get cheeky.  Just look at Thammasat University:  cheeky students want democrat elections and reform.  See what education leads to?  Bad!

However - the education system does provide one positive for the ruling class: it promotes indoctrination.  What does indoctrination lead to?  Mindless compliance.  And to those who rule the roost, mindless compliance is good!!!

Intelligent cheeky citizens - bad.
Dumb compliant citizens - good.
Simple as that! 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by connda

[Srikcir]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

problems in the country’s education sector stemmed partly from a failure to base decisions on empirical research. 

 

6 hours ago, webfact said:

decentralisation is the answer. One has to believe in the potential of schools and the civil sector,”

While these statements are credible, they do not by themselves resolve the fundamental flaws in Thai society necessary to sustain a greatly improved educational system.

If Kunthida were to look at the fundamentals of Finish society, she'd find its not just the mechanics of the Finnish education system that makes it successful but the cultural underpins in Finish society that makes it possible.

Without going into a thesis of explanation I'll grossly generalize that in practice Finland is a permissive, liberal and secular society focused on individual freedoms, community, then nation in that order. Its culture and traditions serve the Finnish people.

Compare to Thai society that is structurally feudal, bureaucratic and nonsecular. Its people serve Thailand's culture and traditions. The pillars of Thai society stated by Kamchorn Tatiyakawee, Education Ministry permanent-secretary in July 2015 are "the nation, religion, and the monarchy."  https://www.chiangraitimes.com/prime-minister-prayut-chan-o-chas-moral-curriculum-to-be-implemented.html

There is no "person" or "individual" as a pillar of Thai society. 

 

 

[Cadbury]

1 hour ago, TKDfella said:

I won't repeat what others have said here but something I have witnessed since school started again. Schools in my area were open so I thought that when going out I'd avoid certain places. However, on one occasion due to traffic works I had to take the route that would take me right to the 'triple parking' where children would be alighting from parent's cars. Surprise, there weren't any parked cars and not a child in sight. It was the same at the second infant school I passed. I later found out that the children were all having traditional dance lessons in a local college grounds. This was to take place for two days running. Another two days this week for something else. Now I have nothing against Traditional dancing etc. but my question is when are these children going to start their new term actually learning topics that they will need in the real world?

The increasing emphasis on tradition at schools might be coming from those pretentious idiots who dress up in fancy costumes and swan around in them at lavish functions for their elite friends.

The military is not much interested in a full education.......all they have to learn is load, lock and pull the trigger or pull the pin and throw with high arm action. As shown below at this school for infant soldiers.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Cadbury

[tracker1]

It is sad that many Thais don't know the simplist things like what does a real mosquito live on ? not the two legged variety ! and Thai teachers teaching english of sorts, what I observed are a lot of students more amused with smartphones facebook line wechat everything except an education !

[trainman34014]

Thai Education is going exactly where the Thai Elite want it to go.....Down the Pan, as they will not allow any underlings to become intelligent enough to challenge their 'Authority'.

 

A heavy price will be paid for this in the future as Thailand sinks to the very bottom of the list of 'developing' countries; indeed, it will forever be supposedly 'developing' but never actually going anywhere !

[ostyan]

I have been living here for eight years by now. Lived about 3 maybe 4 education plan and neither of them was successful. Who made those plans and why not updated schemes, God only knows. The education system, similar to almost everything in  Thailand is for showing and protecting face. Nothing really serious about the plans, nothing new and nothing which could change the tendency.

The last "wonder gun" is spelling words. Prathoum 3,4 and up, they cannot say a sentence but forced to spell important words, like a moustache. No one uses in any serious language schools outside of Thailand, here it is a gov' regulation. 

Expensive uniform, even in poorer schools are very important, how to greet elders, teachers, not important...

 

[Jonah Tenner]

6 hours ago, PatOngo said:

The Mushroom system of education has worked for generations...….keep them in the dark and feed them on BS!

And if anyone shows their head, cut it off...

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Let me disagree a bit... or rather, you are correct, but I think that the analysis is incomplete.

 

I think that there are many factors which contribute to the lack of quality in Thai education, but a few stand out...

 

Corruption. The Education System is a huge, sprawling, complex series of offices, schools, centers, locations, etc, each with their own staff. And, as we who live here often see, each staff tends to grab a slice of the pie; given the sheer number of people and places, huge amounts of money are (I am certain) siphoned off. This matters as Thailand does actually spend roughly a proper amount on education relative to GDP, at least relative to other similar countries, but the actual cash doesn't reach down to the lowest levels (the students) very well.

 

Bureaucracy. Thailand suffers from a huge burden of over-bureaucratization, and it seems particularly bad in the Ministry of Education. One example from the news story; teachers need to collect certificates, etc in order to allow themselves to be considered for promotion and/or higher pay. The natural outcome of such a system is that teachers spend time collecting these documents rather than focusing on the classroom; I would, wouldn't you? Further, simply look at the news story again and count up the numbers of bureaucratic measures mentioned; a provincial committee in each province in conflict with the local education office? Different Centers having an unclear mandate? There are more if one looks...

 

Over centralization. Education policy is one of those areas in Governance that tends to work better if authority is pushed down a ways to a more local level. However, in Thailand there is a massive over-centralization process which leads to inefficiencies. How can Bangkok set proper detailed policies for both Issan and Yala? The culture is different. The language is often different. Local economies are often different. The security situation is different. To sum up, lower level authority in setting school policies will have a beneficial effect, but Thailand does not do this.

 

Further to the paragraph above, there is also a matter of culture. Schools don't have a lot of autonomy or authority, so many things happen because 'that is the way they have always been done'. Imagine a young, bright, shiny, new teacher brimming with ideas arrives at a school. That person will be seen as a bit of a threat by the older teachers there; they have their ways and are comfortable with them. Further, the older teachers will likely have been at the school for a long time and be friends with the Principal. The new teacher will be pressured to do things 'the old, tried and true way' and will likely not have support to make any changes. That new teacher will spend a few/many years gaining seniority, certificates, higher qualifications, etc and when they finally have enough power and influence to make changes, they have become the 'old' teacher who blocks the bright, shiny, new, ones. Rinse and repeat.

 

Soooo, to sum up... I do think that the PTB have, to a certain extent, keep the 'peasants' stupid. However, that is merely one reason among many.

 

And fixing all the problems is a long, long process....

 

Any members working in the Thai Education system? Care to share your experiences? TIA!

 

 

 

"given the sheer number of people and places, huge amounts of money are (I am certain) siphoned off."

 

I have a friend teaching and occupying a management position in a very large provincial school which had over some 15 years built a fund of 31Million Baht to replace many building. The school director retired and new director arrived. Within 30 days this fund and more were empty.

 

 

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, Eligius said:

Yes, TKDfella. It is amazing how many days in Thai schools are wasted (again and again) on various silly 'events', dances, sports preparation, etc. when the kids should be studying. I know this from my own personal experience. I am all for the occasional break from study at school, but in Thailand it happens far too frequently.

 

This also happens in many universities, practicing formation dancing (girls and boys) to be performed at football matches between universities etc.

 

And there is an absolute expectation from the students and the uni management that their professors will excuse them from classes for practice etc. 

 

I'm aware of a case where one student, at the final exam, put his hand up and asked to speak to the professor who was in the exam room.

 

Student said 'Professor I cannot answer question 3 or whatever, because I and other students were at dancing practice so I request that you cancel that question for me and adjust the scoring system so my grade will not be reduced.'

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by scorecard

[Baerboxer]

8 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

The easiest way to assess the state of education in Thailand is to look at this major newspaper story; nowhere does it discuss children learning in the classroom. That says it all.

 

Yes, the Junta has talked about education reform. Yes, new laws have been drafted and some implemented. Yes, new 'buzzwords' have been popularized. Yes, new committees have been formed. Yes, new systems for teacher development have been discussed. Yes, new regulations have been discussed.

 

Blah! Blah! Blah! Nothing has changed in four years. Or more likely forty years.

 

According to the Ministry's own testing, Thai students at M6 level fail everything except Thai language. And if you remove Thai language from the table, Thai students don't even crack the 40% level for 7 out of 8 subjects. The Ministry's Education System is an abject failure; no other conclusion can be reached. None.

 

Thailand faces an existential crisis soon; according to everything that I read about the coming robotic/AI wave, not to mention the improvements of Thailand's neighbours, means that the days of Thailand's uneducated/poorly educated and manual labourers is coming to an end as they won't make economic sense anymore. That is a crisis, but as the old adage goes, a crisis is both a danger and an opportunity. If there is a populace that can adapt to new situations, that has the ability to learn and upgrade skills, that can use new technologies to their benefit, they will do very, very well. Those that can not will be left behind.

 

As it stands now, Thailand will be left behind.

 

There are steps that can be taken immediately. Number one is to announce that the new direction of Thai Education is to empower students to think and problem-solve, not merely to memorize and repeat nonsense. Secondly, give school principals the power to make changes in their own schools and tie their future earnings to the progress made by their students. Third, fire the top one hundred people at the Ministry of Education's Bangkok headquarters; these are the people who created this mess; they are not capable of cleaning it up. Fourth, fire the top ten people at every provincial Education office and disband every committee; tie future wages and benefits to student's progress in their respective provinces.

 

The steps above are quite dramatic, but they are only a beginning. The entire Ministry of Education needs to be re-evaluated and re-formed. And, it likely needs to be re-formed with a chainsaw.

 

The Ministry of Education is the single greatest threat that the sovereign Kingdom of Thailand faces; it needs to treated as such. Or, put another way...

 

Reform or fade into insignificance...

 

 

I don't see many major news stories in major UK newspapers discussing children learning in the classroom either. More likely to read of knife fights or religious schools being caught teaching something they shouldn't. Often read about conflict between teachers and government but that's usually about money and performance.

 

German and French friends say much the same.

 

Asian countries need to be very careful about which models they follow. Finland, South Korea are renowned, Italy for early learning.

 

However, the real issue here is the culture that discourages challenging, critical thinking, speaking out of turn and promotes face saving and accepting BS and nonsense out of politeness. Some here would argue that education prepares children for the society that they want - conflict averse, compliant, no boar rocking of changing the status quo; and yet they also think this will deliver innovative thinking and creativity! Crazy.

[Eligius]

11 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

This also happens in many universities, practicing formation dancing (girls and boys) to be performed at football matches between universities etc.

 

And there is an absolute expectation from the students and the uni management that their professors  will excuse them from classes. 

 

 

You are right, Scorecard. I know for a fact that some major universities here allow students who play in the various university sports teams to miss loads and loads of classes and then demand of the lecturers that those students NOT be penalised in any way, indeed be pushed up to higher scores.

 

Thailand's education system is beyond a joke. And 'university'- level education here is often very reminiscent (I am not joking) of the colouring-book and plasticine playing of primary school kids in the U.K.  I could not believe what I was witnessing when I first entered a Thai university - and I still can't. Thailand should be re-named 'Infancy Land'.

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Eligius

[Rhys]

54 minutes ago, Eligius said:

You are right, Scorecard. I know for a fact that some major universities here allow students who play in the various university sports teams to miss loads and loads of classes and then demand of the lecturers that those students NOT be penalised in any way, indeed be pushed up to higher scores.

 

Thailand's education system is beyond a joke. And 'university'- level education here is often very reminiscent (I am not joking) of the colouring-book and plasticine playing of primary school kids in the U.K.  I could not believe what I was witnessing when I first entered a Thai university - and I still can't. Thailand should be re-named 'Infancy Land'.

 

 

 

 

 

Uhhh Try MUIC...

 

[Eligius]

6 minutes ago, Rhys said:

 

 

 

 

Uhhh Try MUIC...

 

Right. I was talking only the other day to a Thai who studied at Mahidol University (currently Number One university in Thailand), and this is the chap (I referenced yesterday in another thread) who actually believes that the only reason the 'election' is being delayed beyond November is because of the 'organic laws' and that Prayut can do nothing about this.

 

Enough said about Thai 'education' and Thai 'critical analysis', I think.

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Eligius

[mikebell]

Went in to a Surin village school as an ex-teacher of 38 years.  I was introduced to a charming fellow who had the same Head of English denomination as me.  He shook my hand and showed off his prowess: 'Me number 1 Angrit teach in sakoon.'

The next generation of English speakers here will not be able to pronounce the final 'L' in an English word and must insert a vowel between two consonants.

[Chippy151]

Education in Thailand is about conformity and knowing your place in society.

It certainly isn't about acquiring knowledge and learning.

As I always say, the Thai education system is very successful if you understand what its real objectives are.

The elite and the ruling class know exactly what they are doing. A small percentage of the population will always benefit. The rest will stay at the bottom.

Can the Thai ecomomy perform well in the future when the vast majority receive an abysmal education?

Yes, probably.

[Krataiboy]

It's not just Thailand. The entire world is struggling to devise an educational system fit for purpose in a world changing so fast that nobody

really knows what children will need to learn in five years' time, let alone ten or twenty. 

 

Even the world's most advanced nations are still faffing around with antiquated systems based on the Western model designed to cater for the needs of the owners of the dark satanic mills of the Industrial Revolution, rather than the requirements of the Technological Revolution that has us all in its grip.

 

The question is not what kind of schools and teachers we will need in the future, but whether we will need them at all. 

 

Why spend years drumming English or French into a reluctant student when one already can pre-order earpieces equipped with software which provides instant translation of the world's most-used languages?

 

And that's small beer compared with advances in nano-technolgy, such as that which could eventually enable entire academic subjects to be implanted in the human brain on microchips.

 

Add the fact that the majority of jobs people do now will be taken over by robots in the next thirty years or so, and devising a "fit for purpose" education system begins to resemble mission impossible.  We all - particularly governments and educators, need to start thinking outside the box. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Krataiboy

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Krataiboy said:

It's not just Thailand. The entire world is struggling to devise an educational system fit for purpose in a world changing so fast that nobody

really knows what children will need to learn in five years' time, let alone ten or twenty. 

 

Even the world's most advanced nations are still faffing around with antiquated systems based on the Western model designed to cater for the needs of the owners of the dark satanic mills of the Industrial Revolution, rather than the requirements of the Technological Revolution that has us all in its grip.

 

The question is not what kind of schools and teachers we will need in the future, but whether we will need them at all. 

 

Why spend years drumming English or French into a reluctant student when one already can pre-order earpieces equipped with software which provides instant translation of the world's most-used languages?

 

And that's small beer compared with advances in nano-technolgy, such as that which could eventually enable entire academic subjects to be implanted in the human brain on microchips.

 

Add the fact that the majority of jobs people do now will be taken over by robots in the next thirty years or so, and devising a "fit for purpose" education system begins to resemble mission impossible.  We all - particularly governments and educators, need to start thinking outside the box. 

 

 

 

I take your points.

 

Seems to me that education should have two aims:

 

- Prepare kids to be able to contribute positively, in many regards, to building and maintaining a civil society.

 

- Prepare kids, in many ways, to be able to eran a good living and support their family, but as krataiboy mentions, what will work look like 5, 10, 30 years from now?iety,

[TKDfella]

1 hour ago, Krataiboy said:

It's not just Thailand. The entire world is struggling to devise an educational system fit for purpose in a world changing so fast that nobody

really knows what children will need to learn in five years' time, let alone ten or twenty. 

 

Even the world's most advanced nations are still faffing around with antiquated systems based on the Western model designed to cater for the needs of the owners of the dark satanic mills of the Industrial Revolution, rather than the requirements of the Technological Revolution that has us all in its grip.

 

The question is not what kind of schools and teachers we will need in the future, but whether we will need them at all. 

 

Why spend years drumming English or French into a reluctant student when one already can pre-order earpieces equipped with software which provides instant translation of the world's most-used languages?

 

And that's small beer compared with advances in nano-technolgy, such as that which could eventually enable entire academic subjects to be implanted in the human brain on microchips.

 

Add the fact that the majority of jobs people do now will be taken over by robots in the next thirty years or so, and devising a "fit for purpose" education system begins to resemble mission impossible.  We all - particularly governments and educators, need to start thinking outside the box. 

 

 

 

 

Going to disagree with you  on a couple of points (at very least). Firstly, your post is something of a contradiction;

'And that's small beer compared with advances in nano-technolgy, such as that which could eventually enable entire academic subjects to be implanted in the human brain on microchips.'

Now where do you think those advances you mention come from...the local bar or magician?. Those advances come from the ever updated syllabi (syllabuses) in major universities around the world where students carry that through to further research and yet more advances. Who do you think is doing the research for ion propulsion, laser bench top accelerators, improved instruments to monitor the Earth's environment, extending the frontiers of mathematics (Super String Theory, Quantum Physics, Relativity, Astrophysics to name just four)? I'll tell you this...it isn't Thailand.

No, the struggle you mention is the between nations who want to stay ahead of others. The USA has Stealth fighters and the Chinese are experimenting on 'cloaking' non stealth fighter jets. The other struggle going on is that ordinary person in the street, who just wants to earn a living, isn't interested on how the advances arise, so they might get left behind but it's their choice.

'Why spend years drumming English or French into a reluctant student when one already can pre-order earpieces equipped with software which provides instant translation of the world's most-used languages?'

There are computers that do an amazing amount of calculations quickly, computers that can solve complicated equations. I can use my hand calculator to solve Calculus problems that I use to check my hand written ones...and there is my point. Who do think puts the those complicated equations into the computer in the first place? Who do think takes years of study to understand what those equation and formulas mean in the first place? And who do you think will put any advances from that into a university syllabus for the next generation of advances? I'll tell you again...it isn't Thailand.

I am not Thai bashing (I've lived here almost a quarter of a century) I am stating fact. While other countries are forging ahead in education Thailand is drastically lagging behind and if they don't do something resolve this (and I for one wish it would happen) then all that they will be good at is their culture.

Lastly, it would seem that you are unaware of the few items I have mentioned, otherwise you wouldn't have written that post. So perhaps you need to familiarize yourself what is being updated, taught and researched. I guarantee you won't be disappointed...unless of course you waiting for the '...to be implanted in the human brain on microchips...' to happen and volunteer for the operation.

[MrMuddle]

One has to ask what an Admiral and a General would know about running an education system.
I have met many Thai national English teachers here, and none of them could hold a conversation in English. How on earth they can be expected to pass on the language to children in their care is beyond me.

[lungbing]

They are not expected to.  The last thing the government want is an educated under class asking where their share of the national pie is.  If the family is rich enough to have their children educated abroad then  there's the  next ruling class.

[Number 6]

Reform is so easy.

 

Curriculum pulled from international standards such as Cambridge IGCSE.

 

English exams by ETS, IELTS. Introduce new curriculum at P1 and step it up each year nationally. Retrain teachers, retest and return them so schools where they belong OR shitcsn them. Thai teachers over 40 imo are not retrain able. Have an innovative, 21c skills, EFL curriculum built by cutting edge professionals, creating lessons and lesson plans from CEFR A-C2+ Nationwide so all EFL teachers can go anywhere and they know the curriculum. No ridiculous lesson planning.

 

Do you have a degree from one of the top 1000 universities in the world? Can you write? Can you pass an interview? Three years experience - boom, permanent license.

 

Close all EP programs in public schools. Three hours, intensive English by Foreigners at the same time, foreigners strengthen Thai teachers skills.

 

Dump all the Filipinos, Africans, S Africans,1 etc and hire Thais. There are enough to do EFL certainly no worse than those folk.

 

I think the uniforms are lovely and there's nothing wrong with the extracurriculars, Thai kids go to school ten months a year, US 9. They're social, they love this part of school. What else would Thai kids be doing? They do need to drop the bs at beginning of school and finish at 2-230

 

There are many aspects of Thai education that are better than US - academics is not one.

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Number 6

[Negita43]

Laws cannot force people to want to acquire knowledge.

 

Education nowadays is a business, it's sadly about making money and (at the University level at least)  acquiring that "piece of paper".

 

Even at the lower levels it seems the government prefers to spend money on capital projects, which can be seen, rather than invest in teachers and teaching resources which take much longer to make an impact.

 

I have said it many times and I am sad to say it again but here, the education system is a triumph of superficiality over substance and this is a reflection of the culture.

 

Until we see a cultural change everything will stay the same, and cultural changes take years to come about.

 

I saw a program on Aljazera some time ago about how the Thai medical system was changed and improved. I was uplifted by what was achieved.

 

The person in government responsible for this must have had a vision and an "iron will" to push through their ideas.

 

That's what the Thai education system needs, not laws which never get implemented or ignored.

 

And of course we must remember better educated people tend to want more - more from their government and more freedom.

 

That's a paradox of education (as opposed to socialization) the world over.

[Eligius]

3 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

There have been some excellent comments and criticism. It's quite obvious the entire system is broken. The thing that strikes me as odd is that it's so broken, it should be quite easy to put reforms into place that will let's say, restore the system to fifty percent....

 

Thailand won't get swept up in the oncoming technological tsunami because it will largely shut out the world.

 

You are so right: Thailand will continue to live in its own little Fantasy Land bubble - and dragging the populace back further and further into mediaeval times (if Prayut continues to hold full sway here).

 

By the way, Number 6: I love your logo and the 'Number 6' to which it refers. Can you imagine what Patrick McGoohan's 'Prisoner' would make of this place (Thailand) and its utter, slave-like conformism to tradition and the fascistic 'Good People'? He would be arrested and thrown into jail in 5 minutes flat - for daring to voice an independent and defiant opinion!

[TKDfella]

6 minutes ago, Eligius said:

You are so right: Thailand will continue to live in its own little Fantasy Land bubble - and dragging the populace back further and further into mediaeval times (if Prayut continues to hold full sway here).

 

By the way, Number 6: I love your logo and the 'Number 6' to which it refers. Can you imagine what Patrick McGoohan's 'Prisoner' would make of this place (Thailand) and its utter, slave-like conformism to tradition and the fascistic 'Good People'? He would be arrested and thrown into jail in 5 minutes flat - for daring to voice an independent and defiant opinion!

Yep, something like that Chimp had to deal with in the final episode eh? Ha!

Edited May 25, 2018 by TKDfella

[scorecard]

27 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

There have been some excellent comments and criticism. It's quite obvious the entire system is broken. The thing that strikes me as odd is that it's so broken, it should be quite easy to put reforms into place that will let's say, restore the system to fifty percent.

 

There are smart people in Education. I've seen and proofread important papers. There are interesting things going on - but it all ends up for naught with the incompetent and corrupt upper echelon of society holding back either for money, power or personal power. We are now at the point if stagnation that even small, meaningful changes are impossible.

 

Thailand won't get swept up in the oncoming technological tsunami because it will largely shut out the world.

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

Good points, "The thing that strikes me as odd is that it's so broken, it should be quite easy to put reforms into place that will let's say, restore the system to fifty percent."

 

But the reality is the Ed. Ministry totally refuses to abide by any orders or instructions to change, to adjust, to fix things and they have getting away with this refusal for decades. Rightly or wrongly the people at the top of the ministry are powerful and stubborn and refuse to acknowledge that there is anything wrong, they simply put up massive and thick walls to oppose / ignore any ordered change. 

 

 

"...restore the system to fifty percent."  Nice idea but the good 50% never existed.

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by scorecard

[Number 6]

47 minutes ago, MrMuddle said:

One has to ask what an Admiral and a General would know about running an education system.
I have met many Thai national English teachers here, and none of them could hold a conversation in English. How on earth they can be expected to pass on the language to children in their care is beyond me.

I teach in a very respectable public school. All of our English teachers are conversational CEFR B2-C (C1). IELTS estimate..6.5-7. But these are based on mixed skills. Yes, they struggle with the spoken language - few Thai teachers teach speaking.

 

Just like all Thai, they lack the conversational practice.

[Krataiboy]

20 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

Going to disagree with you  on a couple of points (at very least). Firstly, your post is something of a contradiction;

'And that's small beer compared with advances in nano-technolgy, such as that which could eventually enable entire academic subjects to be implanted in the human brain on microchips.'

Now where do you think those advances you mention come from...the local bar or magician?. Those advances come from the ever updated syllabi (syllabuses) in major universities around the world where students carry that through to further research and yet more advances. Who do you think is doing the research for ion propulsion, laser bench top accelerators, improved instruments to monitor the Earth's environment, extending the frontiers of mathematics (Super String Theory, Quantum Physics, Relativity, Astrophysics to name just four)? I'll tell you this...it isn't Thailand.

No, the struggle you mention is the between nations who want to stay ahead of others. The USA has Stealth fighters and the Chinese are experimenting on 'cloaking' non stealth fighter jets. The other struggle going on is that ordinary person in the street, who just wants to earn a living, isn't interested on how the advances arise, so they might get left behind but it's their choice.

'Why spend years drumming English or French into a reluctant student when one already can pre-order earpieces equipped with software which provides instant translation of the world's most-used languages?'

There are computers that do an amazing amount of calculations quickly, computers that can solve complicated equations. I can use my hand calculator to solve Calculus problems that I use to check my hand written ones...and there is my point. Who do think puts the those complicated equations into the computer in the first place? Who do think takes years of study to understand what those equation and formulas mean in the first place? And who do you think will put any advances from that into a university syllabus for the next generation of advances? I'll tell you again...it isn't Thailand.

I am not Thai bashing (I've lived here almost a quarter of a century) I am stating fact. While other countries are forging ahead in education Thailand is drastically lagging behind and if they don't do something resolve this (and I for one wish it would happen) then all that they will be good at is their culture.

Lastly, it would seem that you are unaware of the few items I have mentioned, otherwise you wouldn't have written that post. So perhaps you need to familiarize yourself what is being updated, taught and researched. I guarantee you won't be disappointed...unless of course you waiting for the '...to be implanted in the human brain on microchips...' to happen and volunteer for the operation.

I was already aware that syllabi were not frothy, fruity deserts and, as it happens, I was already familiar with the other items of my intended enlightenment you were kind enough to recommend in your posting

 

Having put five children through the Thai educational system, I think I can also fairly claim to have at least as good a reason to be disenchanted with it as you apparently are.

 

Of course, we need to ensure a constant supply of scientists, astronomers and other brainy people to carry our civilisation to new heights.

 

Where I feel we may differ is on whether or not the current educational model which pertains in the West is the best way to ensure thisi process continues.  In my view it is not.

 

I appended a video from a rather more eminent individual who feels the same way which I thought might get the ball rolling on how things might be improved, but for some reason it did not materialise.

 

Let me try again. . . ah, success!

 

 

 

[TKDfella]

1 hour ago, Krataiboy said:

I was already aware that syllabi were not frothy, fruity deserts and, as it happens, I was already familiar with the other items of my intended enlightenment you were kind enough to recommend in your posting

 

Having put five children through the Thai educational system, I think I can also fairly claim to have at least as good a reason to be disenchanted with it as you apparently are.

 

Of course, we need to ensure a constant supply of scientists, astronomers and other brainy people to carry our civilisation to new heights.

 

Where I feel we may differ is on whether or not the current educational model which pertains in the West is the best way to ensure thisi process continues.  In my view it is not.

 

I appended a video from a rather more eminent individual who feels the same way which I thought might get the ball rolling on how things might be improved, but for some reason it did not materialise.

 

Let me try again. . . ah, success!

 

 

 

Unfortunately the video chooses Economy as it basis for a general argument. In other words it's arguing from the particular and concluding the general. That is a logical fallacy. And of course, Economy is a probabilistic subject because it depends on variables that cannot precisely be determined. Then goes on to compare this with precise variable applications, the syllogism as an example. I stopped watching this at 11:40 because the author admits that is his opinion and calls it 'Chaos'. Yes, it is true that the whole world is driven by economies and I'd be the last person to deny that (that's a rut we've gotten ourselves into money, money as it were.)

However, I think you missed my point.  For any economist they must first learn the basic maths, learn how draw probability density functions graphs etc. For example, unless one knows about multivariate Calculus there is little chance of understanding the Black-Scholes formula or how to use the Normal Probability Distribution parameters which are also involved. In other words if one doesn't learn what the basic tools are then one can't apply them.

What I am saying that in say the USA, UK, Russia etc they are constantly updating and modifying the tools. It is humans that make the mistakes not the tools. So my dismay is that Thai students don't get the needed exposure to those basic (or advanced) tools if the schools don't teach them. That can hardly be done if half the time they are involved in cultural practices. The choice has to be made between as to which is most important and I feel it is the latter that has been chosen.

I too have put my children through education and indeed I kept up with the then modern syllabus so I could help them. For example, when I was at junior school Logic and Set theory were still part of Higher Education yet that changed when my children were in their secondary education. The elementary principles of these were put into secondary education due to Logical Gate theory for electronics (the beginnings of the computer systems). Fortunately I had studied Logic and Set theory before and was able to help my children. (I have also done 'guest' teaching on various (related) subjects so I had some idea of what and how the levels were changing). I don't think this happens in Thai families and as I say, that saddens me..

Edited May 25, 2018 by TKDfella

[jenny2017]

The mind boggles....