Ireland votes in 'once-in-a-generation' abortion referendum

[webfact]

Ireland votes in 'once-in-a-generation' abortion referendum

By Padraic Halpin and Graham Fahy

 

Women chat in front of a Pro-Choice mural ahead of a 25th May referendum on abortion law, in Dublin, Ireland. REUTERS/Clodagh Kilcoyne

 

DUBLIN (Reuters) - Ireland votes on Friday in an abortion referendum that could be a milestone on a path of change in a country that, only a few decades ago, was one of Europe's most socially conservative.

 

Polls suggest Irish voters are set to overturn one of the world's strictest bans on terminations. Prime Minister Leo Varadkar, in favour of change, has called the referendum a "once-in-a-generation" chance.

 

Voters in the once deeply Catholic nation will be asked if they wish to scrap a prohibition that was enshrined in the constitution by referendum 35 year ago, and partly lifted in 2013 only for cases where the mother's life is in danger.

 

Ireland has been changing fast. It legalised divorce by a razor-thin majority only in 1995, but three years ago became the first country in the world to adopt gay marriage by popular vote.

 

A decades-old battle over abortion has played out in a fiercely contested debate that divided political parties, saw the once mighty church take a back seat and became a test case for how global internet giants deal with social media advertising in political campaigns.

Unlike in 1983, when religion was front and centre and abortion was a taboo subject for most people, the campaign was instead defined by women on both sides publicly describing their personal experiences of terminations.

 

"The conversation that has resulted in me going to the ballot box to vote 'Yes' with certainty hasn't been a straightforward one," Deputy Prime Minister Simon Coveney wrote in the Irish Independent newspaper on Thursday.

 

"I have found it difficult, I have stumbled but I have met extraordinary women and men along the way who have changed my perspectives on this deeply emotive issue."

 

"Yes" campaigners like Coveney have argued that with over 3,000 women travelling to Britain each year for terminations and others ordering pills illegally online, abortion is already a reality in Ireland.

 

GOVERNMENT PLANS "EXTREME"

Although not on the ballot paper, the "No" camp has seized on government plans to allow terminations with no restriction up to 12 weeks into a pregnancy if the referendum is carried, calling it a step too far for most voters.

 

"More and more people are realising that this government has planned to introduce an extreme abortion law, the only way to stop this is to vote 'No'," said Mary Butler, an anti-abortion lawmaker from the main opposition party, Fianna Fail.

 

Opinion polls have put those who favour changing the law in a clear lead. The two most recent surveys showed the "Yes" side pulling further ahead.

 

Polling stations close at 2100 GMT and national broadcaster RTE plans to publish an exit poll at 2230 GMT. The first indications of the result are expected mid-morning on Saturday, after the count begins at 0800 GMT.

 

Many expatriate Irish have travelled home to vote in one of the few European Union countries that does not allow those abroad to vote via post or in embassies.

 

Those away for less than 18 months remain eligible to vote at their former local polling station, and a majority appeared to back change.

Analysts said a high turnout, particularly in urban areas, would likely favour the "Yes" side.

 

"If anything, I'm sitting a little bit more comfortably after the last week having viewed the debates and the general moods and commentary of the 'No' camp," said Richard Colwell, chief executive of Red C, whose latest poll on Sunday showed 56 percent for, 27 percent against and 14 percent still undecided.

 

"But that's what everybody thought when Brexit happened. We can't be complacent about it but it does appear that it's going to be a 'Yes' vote at this stage."

 

(Reporting by Padraic Halpin; editing by Andrew Roche)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-05-25

[The Renegade]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

Ireland votes in 'once-in-a-generation' abortion referendum

If the vote is 52 - 48% will there be chaos ?

 

Will the losers demand another Referendum ? 

[Rigby40]

Weak men and irresponsible women are ruining our countries.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Rigby40 said:

Weak men and irresponsible women are ruining our countries.

You don't have to do an abortion... you can stand by your principles, let others have the freedom they deserve.

 

Its always religious fanatics that love to limit other peoples choices in a way they are no better as extremist Muslims.

Edited May 25, 2018 by robblok

[Rigby40]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

You don't have to do an abortion... you can stand by your principles, let others have the freedom they deserve.

 

Its always religious fanatics that love to limit other peoples choices in a way they are no better as extremist Muslims.

I'm an atheist, smart guy.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Rigby40 said:

I'm an atheist, smart guy.

Congratulations, so am I.

 

I feel abortion is perfectly ok (within certain time limits and those are debatable)

[Rigby40]

Just now, robblok said:

Congratulations, so am I.

 

I feel abortion is perfectly ok (within certain time limits and those are debatable)

Ok cool but don't assume it's just religious 'fanatics' who also share these values. Though we're definitely a minority so the stereotype is understandable but #notall

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

Ok cool but don't assume it's just religious 'fanatics' who also share these values. Though we're definitely a minority so the stereotype is understandable but #notall

The thing is that its often religious people who want to force their believes upon others that don't have similar believes. That is why i came out with the religious fanatics. I have respect for religion but not when it impedes my freedom. Sure some of those religious ideas make sense like not killing each-other, though as an atheist I don't need a book to tell me its a bad thing.

 

I am of course against abortion if it takes too long there are limits.

[DM07]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

The thing is that its often religious people who want to force their believes upon others that don't have similar believes. That is why i came out with the religious fanatics. I have respect for religion but not when it impedes my freedom. Sure some of those religious ideas make sense like not killing each-other, though as an atheist I don't need a book to tell me its a bad thing.

 

I am of course against abortion if it takes too long there are limits.

Though there are cases, in which a late- term abortion is the only way out, f.e. if the life of the mother is in danger!

There is no simple black or white- solution and different cases have to be taken into concern.

 

By the way: I used to be way more tolerant to religion, as I am today.

Too many "religious" people are taking way too much care about "unborn"- life and too easily forget about the already born ones!

[DM07]

1 minute ago, Rigby40 said:

Pure nonsense. NOTHING in this universe is self-sustaining / self-sufficient. Any life is contingent on energy of some form or another whether that comes from a host or elsewhere. That's a terrible argument mate.

 

I don't know anyone who thinks it's ok to blow up people at a wedding in Afghanistan. You're talking nonsense again.

Oh...please!

 

 

[Rigby40]

3 minutes ago, robblok said:

The thing is that its often religious people who want to force their believes upon others that don't have similar believes. That is why i came out with the religious fanatics. I have respect for religion but not when it impedes my freedom. Sure some of those religious ideas make sense like not killing each-other, though as an atheist I don't need a book to tell me its a bad thing.

 

I am of course against abortion if it takes too long there are limits.

Fine but how are we going against your freedoms? Killing innocent life is not freedom, in fact you're actually taking away freedom.

[Rigby40]

Just now, DM07 said:

Oh...please!

 

 

Translation: I have no argument

[Jingthing]

I'm OK with calling abortion a form of murder.

I'm OK with calling a fetus life.

It's very mean and nasty, ripping a fetus out of a womb.

To assert otherwise is simply being dishonest for political purposes.

But it should still be legal as women shouldn't be forced to carry a child they don't want. 

Enlightened nations need a comprehensive approach to education and subsidized birth control in order to reduce the number of abortions as much as possible. 

[DM07]

Just now, Rigby40 said:

Fine but how are we going against your freedoms? Killing innocent life is not freedom, in fact you're actually taking away freedom.

What in the name of all that is good and right are you talking about?

When does life start?

At conception?

Every sperm is sacred?

 

How is a 6 week old fetus "life"?

You are aware that "abortion" is not "shooting a baby in the face, after it is delivered by its mom", right?!

[Jingthing]

Abortion shouldn't be a form of birth control. Push the birth control harder and make abortions rare and LEGAL. 

[DM07]

5 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

Translation: I have no argument

Translation: you are talking out of a very dark place!

You even twisted my words: I didn't say "leave the child to fend for itself" (I was saying "leave the mother/ family to fend for themselves), yet that is where your argument went!

Also, you claim not to be religious- so tell me: what has "waiting until marriage" have to do with ANYTHING?

Irresponsible women...lose men...

 

Either you are just a troll or you are very, very confused!

[CharlesSwann]

Unwanted babies are potentially depriving wanted babies of life. Has that ever occurred to anyone?

[Srikcir]

20 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Abortion shouldn't be a form of birth control. Push the birth control harder and make abortions rare and LEGAL. 

Not working in Thailand.

Thailand's teenage pregnancies are higher than in the United States, ten times higher than Singapore’s teen pregnancy rate and the highest in SE Asia.

[Rigby40]

27 minutes ago, DM07 said:

What in the name of all that is good and right are you talking about?

When does life start?

At conception?

Every sperm is sacred?

 

How is a 6 week old fetus "life"?

You are aware that "abortion" is not "shooting a baby in the face, after it is delivered by its mom", right?!

It's obvious what I mean when I said abortions are taking away freedom. It's not that hard to figure out!

 

Yes, life starts at conception. The 'big bang' so to speak 55555

 

How is a single cell considered life on another planet? Hmm?

Edited May 25, 2018 by Rigby40

[Rigby40]

26 minutes ago, DM07 said:

Translation: you are talking out of a very dark place!

You even twisted my words: I didn't say "leave the child to fend for itself" (I was saying "leave the mother/ family to fend for themselves), yet that is where your argument went!

Also, you claim not to be religious- so tell me: what has "waiting until marriage" have to do with ANYTHING?

Irresponsible women...lose men...

 

Either you are just a troll or you are very, very confused!

That's a legitimate mistake on my end. I wasn't trying to twist your words, I misquoted you. My apologies.

 

Tell me, what does waiting until marriage have to do with religion? Can I not be an atheist and wait until marriage?? Or do I magically become religious upon waiting until marriage?

 

Irresponsible women and lose men is right!!

 

Not a troll at all, you just can't handle my differences of opinion pal.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Rigby40

[rosst]

2 hours ago, DM07 said:

Let's hear, how you would like it?
Her body, your choice?

Oh...let me guess: you are one of those dudes, who think that women in general just get pregnant for fun and then abort babies left and right, like other people eat cake, right?!

And I also guess, you are totally okay with the taxpayer paying for boner- pills, but when it comes to abortion...well..."her body, her choice", right?!

 

Most abortions are still happening for a bunch of reasons and almost none of those reasons is "well...it's my hobby"! 

A bit fired up about this, and rightly so, you are correct, most ladies in the situation of seeking an abortion are not one bit happy about it and it comes with a lifetime of thinking for most of them, I feel very sorry for them, why shouldn't they have that choice? 

[DM07]

1 hour ago, Rigby40 said:

It's obvious what I mean when I said abortions are taking away freedom. It's not that hard to figure out!

 

Yes, life starts at conception. The 'big bang' so to speak 55555

 

How is a single cell considered life on another planet? Hmm?

This is so...I don't even know where to start!

Perhaps with this: singular- cell organisms are considered "life" on ANY planet, including Earth!

 

[DM07]

1 hour ago, Rigby40 said:

That's a legitimate mistake on my end. I wasn't trying to twist your words, I misquoted you. My apologies.

 

Tell me, what does waiting until marriage have to do with religion? Can I not be an atheist and wait until marriage?? Or do I magically become religious upon waiting until marriage?

 

Irresponsible women and lose men is right!!

 

Not a troll at all, you just can't handle my differences of opinion pal.

No,no,no...YOU tell ME, what "waiting until marriage" has to do with the subject matter at hand!

What has "marriage" to do with abortion?

 

Pray tell?!

Or rather...don't!

I assume, the answer is as confusing as the rest of your postings!

Edited May 25, 2018 by DM07

[Jingthing]

Look -- after decades of this debate globally it's totally clear that "pro-life" and "pro-choice" sides are NEVER going to agree. I'm actually in the "pro-choice" camp but I also think abortion is very much not nice. I don't think being pro-choice should mean cheer leading about abortion and acting like it's nothing. I think it's possible for there to be social policy compromises that keep abortion legal but work hard to keep it more rare. No I don't mean promoting celibacy either. That clearly doesn't work. But reducing stigma about sex and getting access to birth control can help a lot. Easier said than done but that seems the only rational civilized path. 

 

If I don't sound as one side leftist on this issue as would please some, I have to admit I had a personal experience with a close relative that made me understand that there are sometimes bad consequences to abortion for the women and that ideally it would be better if it usually never came to that. 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Jingthing

[Chomper Higgot]

7 hours ago, The Renegade said:

If the vote is 52 - 48% will there be chaos ?

 

Will the losers demand another Referendum ? 

Let’s ask your man Farage:

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, sukhumvitneon said:

It's more a matter of the fact that unprotected sex has consequences, and those having it should pick up the tab for those consequences and not the taxpayers.

 

Where I live in the US there is free (taxpayer funded):

 

STD testing

Family planning/counseling services

Contraception

 

To say nothing of Planned Parenthood. 

 

Her body, her choice, but my wallet?  How about have your man wear a rubber that he can buy down at CVS?

You’ve been hiding your brain from the Hyde Ammendment.

[khunken]

As an Irishman living in Thailand - no overseas voting for me - I send a resounding virtual 'yes' to the referendum.

 

Too many (men in particular) want their view to be forced on others who have a very difficult choice to make. Is it wanted? Is it unwanted as a result of a one-night-stand, rape or failure of a birth-control method?

 

If the decision is in favour of an abortion, more decisions are necessary: Local life-risking coat-hanger?; Order the pills from overseas?; Or just go to the UK? It depends on how rich one is or is not.

 

Health-care in Ireland is not free - all tax-payers pay through social security - and (as mentioned above) individuals cannot object to providing health-care to 60-a-day, a bottle-a-day & other abusers who are certainly not more deserving than women seeking an abortion.

 

Finally to believe that life begins at conception is a non-scientific belief that is used as an excuse (usually by religious freaks) to deny women control over their bodies.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Rigby40 said:

I'm an atheist, smart guy.

You’re also a man, firmly in the ‘telling women what the shall and shall not do wither own bodies’ camp.

[DM07]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Look -- after decades of this debate globally it's totally clear that "pro-life" and "pro-choice" sides are NEVER going to agree. I'm actually in the "pro-choice" camp but I also think abortion is very much not nice. I don't think being pro-choice should mean cheer leading about abortion and acting like it's nothing. I think it's possible for there to be social policy compromises that keep abortion legal but work hard to keep it more rare. No I don't mean promoting celibacy either. That clearly doesn't work. But reducing stigma about sex and getting access to birth control can help a lot. Easier said than done but that seems the only rational civilized path. 

 

If I don't sound as one side leftist on this issue as would please some, I have to admit I had a personal experience with a close relative that made me understand that there are sometimes bad consequences to abortion for the women and that ideally it would be better if it usually never came to that. 

I also don't want to come across, like an abortion is "nothing"!

I am not a woman, so I don't pretend to "know", but I guess, there are psychological problems to deal with (I doubt, the majority of women decide light hearted to have an abortion) as there are physical consequences.

And yes: I wish, abortion would not be necessary!

I also see, that there are grey areas, that have to be discussed thoroughly!

 

But I can not go to that place, where a zygote is declared to be "life" and where the "right" of that zygote is placed higher than the life of the woman, her right to choose and several other things.

 

[Jingthing]

A fetus is at the very least a potential new life.

You could say sperm and eggs are as well but I wouldn't. 

This doesn't have to be a religious thing, either way.

There is a lot of intellectual dishonesty about these debates on different sides.

As someone that is pro-choice it is more convenient to act like a fetus isn't a life. But suppose it is. The pro-life people will say, then if that's OK then murder in general is OK. There is no logic in that! Ironically it's often the most extreme pro-life people that aren't interested in promoting life AFTER birth and they also tend to heavily be in favor or the death penalty. Go figure. 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Jingthing