Hospital for BODY FAT DEXA SCAN? Please help

[sunfruitdan]

I have searched high and low for a dexa scan in bangkok at any hospitals, i need one that measures body fat not just bone density and no i do not want to use any other devices as they are not as accurate as a dexa scan.

[metisdead]

Moving to the Health forum for knowledgeable answers. 

[Sheryl]

I recall hearing in the past that Vejthani has it. Try there.

 

 

(Actually all the hospitals have Dexa Scans, but they usually use them for measuring bone density only).

[sunfruitdan]

11 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I recall hearing in the past that Vejthani has it. Try there.

 

 

(Actually all the hospitals have Dexa Scans, but they usually use them for measuring bone density only).

Nope they only check bone density.

[Oxx]

27 minutes ago, sunfruitdan said:

Nope they only check bone density.

 

Are you sure about that? (See post #6.)

 

 

[simon43]

My understanding when I investigated this before was that many of the hospitals have Dexa body Scan equipment, but that equipment only has the software 'plug-in' to measure bone density, and they need to buy another plug-in to measure body fat %.

[Bob12345]

I think you are chasing a unicorn (is that a real expression?).

 

Basic counter question would be: why you need to know your "exact" bodyfat percentage?

 

Say its 11% or 10% or 9%, who cares?

 

A dexascan might be the "gold mark" of bodyfat testing; the outcome of the scan is basically useless for any purpose.

 

For health reasons its much more important to know your bf trend (up, stable, or downward going). To know this you can use a much cheaper option and measure it daily at home. Over time you will see a clear trend. The goal is not to measure it precisely, the goal is to measure it similarly as previous times.

[Sheryl]

I came across this while looking for soemthing else, seems they can do what you want

 

http://www.mrithailand.com/index.php?modules=article&parent_id=1&id=47&lang=en

[robblok]

On 5/29/2018 at 10:09 AM, Bob12345 said:

I think you are chasing a unicorn (is that a real expression?).

 

Basic counter question would be: why you need to know your "exact" bodyfat percentage?

 

Say its 11% or 10% or 9%, who cares?

 

A dexascan might be the "gold mark" of bodyfat testing; the outcome of the scan is basically useless for any purpose.

 

For health reasons its much more important to know your bf trend (up, stable, or downward going). To know this you can use a much cheaper option and measure it daily at home. Over time you will see a clear trend. The goal is not to measure it precisely, the goal is to measure it similarly as previous times.

I would not mind a dexa scan.. not for the exact percentage but because it measures accurate all the time so you could really see how you are doing. It can be quite important to have the right data. I certainly would pay for it. 

Edited June 1, 2018 by robblok

[simon43]

I came across this while looking for soemthing else, seems they can do what you want

Sheryl, that is very interesting information - I will contact these people next time I'm in Bangkok to have a Dexa Scan (for the same reasons as Robblok).

[Ks45672]

On 5/29/2018 at 10:09 AM, Bob12345 said:

I think you are chasing a unicorn (is that a real expression?).

 

Basic counter question would be: why you need to know your "exact" bodyfat percentage?

 

Say its 11% or 10% or 9%, who cares?

 

A dexascan might be the "gold mark" of bodyfat testing; the outcome of the scan is basically useless for any purpose.

 

For health reasons its much more important to know your bf trend (up, stable, or downward going). To know this you can use a much cheaper option and measure it daily at home. Over time you will see a clear trend. The goal is not to measure it precisely, the goal is to measure it similarly as previous times.

Everyone with more than a casual interest in fitness cares 

Nothing you can do at home comes close 

[Bob12345]

8 hours ago, Ks45672 said:

Everyone with more than a casual interest in fitness cares 

Nothing you can do at home comes close 

Instead of explaining why it is so important you leave it with a simple one-liner without futher explanation. So let me do the same:

 

Based on the fact how hard it is to find a place within Thailand where you can get a DEXA scan for bodyfat i can only conclude that appearently barely anybody in Thailand has more than a casual interest in fitness. All the pro-bodybuilders, pro-athletes, and olympic athletes appearently don't take their fitness as serious as you ?

 

On a more serious note:

I can imagine someone wanting to know their "exact" bodyfat percentage as you can compare it to your totals of some period ago. I had the same idea a year ago before hiring a professional coach who talked some sense into me. No hard feelings, but if you cannot judge your progress based on the scale, some less accurate method of measuring your bodyfat, and pictures than you are probably not making progress. You should stop spending so much time finding a place to do a DEXA scan, and spend more time training, studying nutrition, and taking care of your sleeping habits. 

[robblok]

14 minutes ago, Bob12345 said:

Instead of explaining why it is so important you leave it with a simple one-liner without futher explanation. So let me do the same:

 

Based on the fact how hard it is to find a place within Thailand where you can get a DEXA scan for bodyfat i can only conclude that appearently barely anybody in Thailand has more than a casual interest in fitness. All the pro-bodybuilders, pro-athletes, and olympic athletes appearently don't take their fitness as serious as you ?

 

On a more serious note:

I can imagine someone wanting to know their "exact" bodyfat percentage as you can compare it to your totals of some period ago. I had the same idea a year ago before hiring a professional coach who talked some sense into me. No hard feelings, but if you cannot judge your progress based on the scale, some less accurate method of measuring your bodyfat, and pictures than you are probably not making progress. You should stop spending so much time finding a place to do a DEXA scan, and spend more time training, studying nutrition, and taking care of your sleeping habits. 

Bob, you will come there too that you can't judge your own progress well anymore. After a few years of exercising hard progress is so limited that its hard to notice so then dexa comes into play. I did not need to do this when was still gaining muscle easy. Once your beginner gains are done and a few years on without chemicals you don't add much muscle mass more if lucky 1-2 kg a year.. and that is hard to notice.

[Bob12345]

44 minutes ago, robblok said:

Bob, you will come there too that you can't judge your own progress well anymore. After a few years of exercising hard progress is so limited that its hard to notice so then dexa comes into play. I did not need to do this when was still gaining muscle easy. Once your beginner gains are done and a few years on without chemicals you don't add much muscle mass more if lucky 1-2 kg a year.. and that is hard to notice.

So say you go for a dexa scan every year and you see that your fat-free mass increased by 500 grams over a year... how would your actions differ from when you would find out that your fat-free mass decreased by 500 grams? Or when you would see that it stayed exactly the same?

 

Would you train harder? Guess you can't as you already train hard.

Would you eat better? Guess you can't as you already eat well.

Would you sleep more? Guess you already sleep 8 hours a day.

 

Fact is that your progress can be due to many factors (hormone levels, eating habits, sleeping habits, stress reduction, sunlight, the amount of water you drink, the amount of salt in your food, training habits, etc) but you never know which one made the difference. Now you know your exact progress, but you can only guess about the reasons.

 

So how exactly would it help?

You still don't know what the exact cause of your progress (or decline) was, and therefore you still cannot replicate the results.

What would it help if you knew exactly by how much your muscle mass increased or decreased?

All it would do is give you some "bragging rights" i guess, to which you can brag to yourself... as nobody else cares.

Unless you compete, then people care, but then your exact bodyfat don't matter anymore.

In competition you are judged on your strength (powerlifting, wieghtlifting), looks (bodybuilding), skills (martial arts, etc), or strength + stemina (crossfit). Nowhere they want to know your bodyfat %.

 

 

 

What i do do, is measure my bodyfat in a more inaccurate way on a daily basis. 

See the graph in the attachment for the results of the last 2 years of measurements.

 

I know these daily measurements are inaccurate, as my measured bodyfat goes up and down by over a percent day-to-day which should not happen (this morning i "gained" 1.7% in bodyfat compared to yesterday).

But I do not care, as I only use it to find the trend.

These results I log together with bodyweight (simple bodyweight scale) and this way i can track how my bulk, cut, and maintenance is going.

I do not make decisions on daily results but use a 7-day moving average to compensate for daily movements due to inaccurate measurements and things like the amount of salt in my food, how much i pee'd or poo'd, etc.

 

With these results i can make adjustments to my bulk and cut. If i gain too fast i lower my caloric intake as muscle mass can only increase by so much, and if i lose too fast i eat a bit more as i am probably burning muscle. None of these things would be measurable with a DEXA scan as i would not go get one every  week (for maybe 4,000 baht a time). I know from experience, after 2 years, how far i can bulk and how far i can cut without problems (if my fat % goes towards 9% or below i often get ill, and that is 8% measured in my inaccurate way).

 

Say now that i could do a DEXA scan and i found out that my bodyfat % this morning was not 13.7% but 18.7%. It would not make any difference in my plans as I care about the trend and not the exact numbers. 

 

So let me repeat my earlier question:

Why would you need to know your exact bodyfat percentage?

 

So far the only people I have found that care about this are not professional bodybuilders, professional athletes, professional powerlifters, but only researchers.

People who research the effects of training or nutrition in a laboratory setup and who need accurate measurements to give their results credibility (other methods will raise issues with the peer-reviews).

Thats also the reason why you will find most DEXA scan equipment for bodyfat % in hospitals close to sport academies where sport research is performed.

And thats the reason why most hospitals in Thailand cannot give you these results: there is simply no demand for the outcomes as barely any scientific research in this field is performed here.

[Hummin]

Randem google search might help us. Disclaimer  I did not read the whole article or know the web side reliability , but the norm there shown in the pics, is what I se other sources agree on. 

 

As long I eat healthy, exorcise, feel good, and are healthy I would not think about it. If I see a change in mood, lack of energy and other signs, I would check my rutines, and also do blood tests to see if there is something. Everyone should do a full check up at least once a year. 

 

Readings like that can vary as you say, and small changes like that, I would not even think about.

 

Ideal Body Fat Percentage Chart: How Lean Should You Be?

https://www.builtlean.com/2010/08/03/ideal-body-fat-percentage-chart/amp/

Edited June 2, 2018 by Hummin

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Bob12345 said:

So say you go for a dexa scan every year and you see that your fat-free mass increased by 500 grams over a year... how would your actions differ from when you would find out that your fat-free mass decreased by 500 grams? Or when you would see that it stayed exactly the same?

 

Would you train harder? Guess you can't as you already train hard.

Would you eat better? Guess you can't as you already eat well.

Would you sleep more? Guess you already sleep 8 hours a day.

 

Fact is that your progress can be due to many factors (hormone levels, eating habits, sleeping habits, stress reduction, sunlight, the amount of water you drink, the amount of salt in your food, training habits, etc) but you never know which one made the difference. Now you know your exact progress, but you can only guess about the reasons.

 

So how exactly would it help?

You still don't know what the exact cause of your progress (or decline) was, and therefore you still cannot replicate the results.

What would it help if you knew exactly by how much your muscle mass increased or decreased?

All it would do is give you some "bragging rights" i guess, to which you can brag to yourself... as nobody else cares.

Unless you compete, then people care, but then your exact bodyfat don't matter anymore.

In competition you are judged on your strength (powerlifting, wieghtlifting), looks (bodybuilding), skills (martial arts, etc), or strength + stemina (crossfit). Nowhere they want to know your bodyfat %.

 

 

 

What i do do, is measure my bodyfat in a more inaccurate way on a daily basis. 

See the graph in the attachment for the results of the last 2 years of measurements.

 

I know these daily measurements are inaccurate, as my measured bodyfat goes up and down by over a percent day-to-day which should not happen (this morning i "gained" 1.7% in bodyfat compared to yesterday).

But I do not care, as I only use it to find the trend.

These results I log together with bodyweight (simple bodyweight scale) and this way i can track how my bulk, cut, and maintenance is going.

I do not make decisions on daily results but use a 7-day moving average to compensate for daily movements due to inaccurate measurements and things like the amount of salt in my food, how much i pee'd or poo'd, etc.

 

With these results i can make adjustments to my bulk and cut. If i gain too fast i lower my caloric intake as muscle mass can only increase by so much, and if i lose too fast i eat a bit more as i am probably burning muscle. None of these things would be measurable with a DEXA scan as i would not go get one every  week (for maybe 4,000 baht a time). I know from experience, after 2 years, how far i can bulk and how far i can cut without problems (if my fat % goes towards 9% or below i often get ill, and that is 8% measured in my inaccurate way).

 

Say now that i could do a DEXA scan and i found out that my bodyfat % this morning was not 13.7% but 18.7%. It would not make any difference in my plans as I care about the trend and not the exact numbers. 

 

So let me repeat my earlier question:

Why would you need to know your exact bodyfat percentage?

 

So far the only people I have found that care about this are not professional bodybuilders, professional athletes, professional powerlifters, but only researchers.

People who research the effects of training or nutrition in a laboratory setup and who need accurate measurements to give their results credibility (other methods will raise issues with the peer-reviews).

Thats also the reason why you will find most DEXA scan equipment for bodyfat % in hospitals close to sport academies where sport research is performed.

And thats the reason why most hospitals in Thailand cannot give you these results: there is simply no demand for the outcomes as barely any scientific research in this field is performed here.

What I would do is know i gained 500 gram of muscle, i know what i did worked and go on. Now I don't know anything. Maybe it does not matter much for you but for me it does. Just like i keep track of my blood values and store the results. It would give me a reliable way to track progress or lack off over years. For me that is real valuable.

 

Could I train harder, probably not much but I could try to train different. But if I were to get fatter I could change my diet. The whole point is that its an accurate image at a time. It would be of course nicer if I had them from way back but you need to start somewhere. 

 

The scan you have is funny and absolutely pointless (unless havent gotten much muscle then it can be a bit accurate). These electrical measurements in general are useless as they are just comparing the value they get from you with the general public (not trained people so the more muscle you have the more it will go wrong)

 

For me numbers are important for others they are not, if its available i would use it. Many would actually i see a lot of people using it in the UK when its available to them. Not as bragging points but as a real good way to measure progress or lack of it. 

[Bob12345]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

The scan you have is funny and absolutely pointless (unless havent gotten much muscle then it can be a bit accurate). 

Except that they give a general trend (fat% stable, up or down) which is exactly what i want to know when being in maintenance, gaining, or cutting. Based on the speed of increase, combined with my bodyweight and experience, i can make a decent estimate of what i am currently doing is going well. Best would be doing a dexa scan weekly, but even when available it would be too costly.

 

The rest of "fitness" is unaccurate as hell also unless you buy calibrated lifting bars and plates (extremely expensive) and even with tracking calories you are shooting buckshots at best as calories on food labels are allowed to divert 10-20% from reality.

[robblok]

2 hours ago, Bob12345 said:

Except that they give a general trend (fat% stable, up or down) which is exactly what i want to know when being in maintenance, gaining, or cutting. Based on the speed of increase, combined with my bodyweight and experience, i can make a decent estimate of what i am currently doing is going well. Best would be doing a dexa scan weekly, but even when available it would be too costly.

 

The rest of "fitness" is unaccurate as hell also unless you buy calibrated lifting bars and plates (extremely expensive) and even with tracking calories you are shooting buckshots at best as calories on food labels are allowed to divert 10-20% from reality.

But that trend can be totally wrong because its based on the "normal" population. I got fatter while i got leaner on scales like that. It really depends on your makeup.

 

I would love a dexa scan and yes even weekly would be too expensive monthly might be too not sure. But for me it would be useful. I am not saying it would be useful for everyone.  Right now during a year I have no idea if the 2 kg is really muscle or not.  My progress is just too insignificant. Before I would not have needed it but now it would be useful. But we are all different I am a numbers guy. 

[Bob12345]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

But that trend can be totally wrong because its based on the "normal" population. I got fatter while i got leaner on scales like that. It really depends on your makeup.

 

I would love a dexa scan and yes even weekly would be too expensive monthly might be too not sure. But for me it would be useful. I am not saying it would be useful for everyone.  Right now during a year I have no idea if the 2 kg is really muscle or not.  My progress is just too insignificant. Before I would not have needed it but now it would be useful. But we are all different I am a numbers guy. 

I believe it is based on a normal population as in you cannot trust the absolute number. Your bodyfat going up while getting leaner does not make sense as it measures resistance of the electrical current, which depends on your tissue. Anyways, i am not an expert either.

 

In your case it might be useful indeed, as you are in a very specific situation where you reached your limits. I doubt many other people actually reached such a level already that the costs could be justified. In most cases it would be more of a venity project where nothing will be done with the results (or they will be misinterpreted). Key is that you are at a certain level for years in a row and train about similarly for years in a row. Only then it might be useful as you by now know how to keep most other factors constant.

[robblok]

12 hours ago, Bob12345 said:

I believe it is based on a normal population as in you cannot trust the absolute number. Your bodyfat going up while getting leaner does not make sense as it measures resistance of the electrical current, which depends on your tissue. Anyways, i am not an expert either.

 

In your case it might be useful indeed, as you are in a very specific situation where you reached your limits. I doubt many other people actually reached such a level already that the costs could be justified. In most cases it would be more of a venity project where nothing will be done with the results (or they will be misinterpreted). Key is that you are at a certain level for years in a row and train about similarly for years in a row. Only then it might be useful as you by now know how to keep most other factors constant.

If you have reached your limits its useful but before that its useful too to keep track. It kinda depends a bit on the price and how much you have to spend. I have no idea of the price of this so I can't say in some places its cheap (doubt it is here).

 

The thing is it indeed measures resistance and then looks up that value based on your age, your weight and the resistance in a table of normal people. So its an absolute gamble what will come out especially if your gaining muscle. If your just losing weight (presumably fat) it might work. Anyway done my research on these devices and for bodybuilders they are not useful. I have one myself and its funny to see how fat it thinks I am. I looked for more accurate ones but it all depends on the table they use and many just use the same table so its no point. 

 

But I think a dexa scan has its value and doing once a year or every half year would be a good thing for those interested. If you got a lot of fat to lose its easy to see but once changes are smaller its harder to know what way your going, but these changes can add up over the years. I just hate doing things blind.

[Julo]

https://www.vejthani.com/2017/08/dxa-scan-body-fat-and-composition-assessment/

 

@Vejthani Hospital

 

Who tried? How much is it? Can I just walk in? I got one done at "Clinica Manila" in Manila Metro, Mandaluyong, SM Megamall:

http://clinicamanila.com/news-and-promotions/news/view/body-composition-analysis/46

I just walked in without appointment. Cost me 2000php/32€/37USD. However they didn't measure my grip strength and I didn't take the optional doctor consultation to explain the results.

2 bad sides: I explicitely asked for body composition not osteodensitometry which is 2600php, but then before the scan I realise they gave me documents to fill in for osteodensitometry. So I had to go back to the cashier who refunded me 600php and gave me the body composition.

Then after the scan we agreed they will send me the result by email. But 1 week after the due date they didn't send anything. So I went there and asked them the results. They gave me the paper result, then I told them I want the digital file result (pdf file), the guy told me ok, then came back "sorry sir the computer is being used". I know I had to stay there until I get what I want so I said "no worries, I'll wait" later the came back told me he sent the file,but actually he sent only the explanation document not the result, so I told he he has to go back and send me the results this time. Which he finally did.

 

 

Here is the Viejthani page:

DXA SCAN: BODY FAT AND COMPOSITION ASSESSMENT

Posted at 00:06h in Health Article 0 Comments 

0Likes

 

Share

 

•  
•  
•  

(Last Updated On: March 30, 2018)

Obesity is one of the biggest health problems and leading causes of death in the world. Dual Energy X-Ray Absorptiometry (DXA) is a solution to know your body with medical-grade technology and transform your health and fitness with science.
DXA Scan provides one of the most highly accurate measurements of body composition available, registering fat and lean mass distribution throughout the entire body. In simple terms, it is capable of detailing overall, as well as regional, fat mass, lean mass, and bone mass.

WHAT DOES A DXA SCAN SHOW?

1. Total body fat
2. Visceral fat
3. Diffuse fat deposition
4. Muscle mass
5. Bone mineral density

WHO SHOULD HAVE A DXA SCAN?

1. Overweight people based on body mass index (BMI).
2. Men with a waist circumference of ≥90 cm. and ≥80cm. in women.
3. Athletes and active people.
4. People who suffer from chronic ill health, such as: muscle disorders and metabolic disorders.

DXA has become well accepted as standard tool for measuring body fat. DXA tests are easy, fast and painless. By doing a DXA assessment, you can immediately see changes in your body composition so you can be proactive with your health. Remember, measure body fat correctly to manage it effectively.

[lopburi3]

Can not answer as in having done but use Vejthani and it is walk in for most things and I have had body scan (to check bone density) and wife has had several times and done immediately at normal doctors request.  Am sure if you went to section directly they would be able to do with little or no wait.  Testing is done in the Executive Health Care Center on 11th floor (packaged tests are done here) so believe if you contact staff there they can arrange.