Which wires go where??

[MaiDong]

I'm replacing my old light switches for these new HACO switches, I'm confused by the wiring, on the new switches there's 2 'L' ports and 2 'L1' ports, but there's no such markings on the old set, so which wires go where?

 

Old(which are upside down in the pic)

 

 

New

[bankruatsteve]

L is for the Live input.  L1 is for the switched live to the lights.  Even though the wires are colored white, they "should" be the Live.  Unless this is switching the Neutral - not good.  Try to sort that out.

 

I just noticed that the switches are connected..  ??  That doesn't make sense if they are simple switches.  If the old switches are "3-way" it doesn't make sense to have them so close together.  More to sort out.

[MaiDong]

Thanks for your reply, it still doesn't make any sense to me! ?

 

I've hopefully got a wise old neighbour coming over to help, you can't beat a bit of local knowledge, sometimes...

[MaiDong]

So, L is for live, L1 is for the connection between switches?

 

If I tried one way, turned the mains on again, tried the switches and it was wrong, can I assume that would be problematic?

Edited May 28, 2018 by MaiDong

[KhunBENQ]

It's really simple if you compare with the wiring diagram of the old switches.

Beware: I turned  your image, and cut/crop.

Both are simple switches, just two mechanical terminals on each side.

 

And "L" should be connected with the life wire.

That makes sure that opening the switch disconnects live from the device that you want to switch.

Edited May 28, 2018 by KhunBENQ

[bankruatsteve]

Another scenario could be Live coming in from the top, then jumper over to the other switch with the switched Live coming out the bottom of the switch and off to the right.  But that would have a Live feed also going off to the right - which seems a bit odd.  Definitely some sorting out to do.

[Lacessit]

I would have thought a nation obsessed by colours would have done this for wiring many moons ago.

[bankruatsteve]

9 minutes ago, MaiDong said:

I've hopefully got a wise old neighbour coming over to help, you can't beat a bit of local knowledge, sometimes...

The first thing you need to do is determine if those are Live or Neutral wires.  If the wise OG doesn't know how to do that, then you better call in someone who does.

[MaiDong]

8 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

It's really simple if you compare with the wiring diagram of the old switches.

Beware: I turned  your image, and cut/crop.

Both are simple switches, just two mechanical terminals on each side.

 

And "L" should be connected with the life wire.

That makes sure that opening the switch disconnects live from the device that you want to switch.

 

I see what you mean, thanks for pointing that out ?

[KhunBENQ]

And as already written: test(!) whether the old switches are connected correctly (life switched).

If they are correct it would mean this:

"Out1" -> L1, "Out 2" -> L1

Edited May 28, 2018 by KhunBENQ

[KhunBENQ]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I would have thought a nation obsessed by colours would have done this for wiring many moons ago.

An extraordinary example of "colorless".

At least you are not given a false impression.

So test, test, test and be safe.

[VocalNeal]

Just looking at the green ones it looks simple enough. The "power" comes in at top right, it is then ganged to the next-door switch so two switches can be powered by the same feed. Or did i miss something. The grey ones appear to be able to be configured the same way. 

[MaiDong]

7 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

And as already written: test(!) whether the old switches are connected correctly (life switched).

If they are correct it would mean this:

"Out1" -> L1, "Out 2" -> L1

That's correct, yes.

[MaiDong]

All done! Thanks for your pointers :)

 

Here is how it looks now, all safely...securely...connected...

 

I tested it and it's fine :) 

 

[BEVUP]

Good to see

I have a set up like that 

Have a little light at the bottom of stairs that didn't work - they had the Live & Nuetral connected wrong at the light fitting

Looked behind switches & seen similar (it's a lazy persons way of supplying the other switch )

The other switch worked in conjunction with one up stairs 

 

[MaiDong]

1 hour ago, BEVUP said:

Good to see

I have a set up like that 

Have a little light at the bottom of stairs that didn't work - they had the Live & Nuetral connected wrong at the light fitting

Looked behind switches & seen similar (it's a lazy persons way of supplying the other switch )

The other switch worked in conjunction with one up stairs 

 

That might explain why my LEDs aren't working then ?

[bankruatsteve]

1 hour ago, BEVUP said:

Have a little light at the bottom of stairs that didn't work - they had the Live & Nuetral connected wrong at the light fitting

Looked behind switches & seen similar (it's a lazy persons way of supplying the other switch )

The other switch worked in conjunction with one up stairs 

 

Do you happen to know how the L and N were connected "wrong"?  

 

FYI:  Lights (almost) never need L and N connected a certain way.  IE: it doesn't matter.  What does matter is that only the Live should be switched - never the Neutral.  

Also, jumpering L from one switch to another in the same circuit is common (and saves wire).

[BEVUP]

16 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

Do you happen to know how the L and N were connected "wrong"?  

 

FYI:  Lights (almost) never need L and N connected a certain way.  IE: it doesn't matter.  What does matter is that only the Live should be switched - never the Neutral.  

Also, jumpering L from one switch to another in the same circuit is common (and saves wire).

I took the fitting out & identified the Live 

Put the Live to the prong were the bulb sits on & Neutral to the side one 

Or it may have just been some bad twitching of wires (wasn't the best )

PS: I'm a hobbiest on the very simple stuff 

Edited May 29, 2018 by BEVUP

[oldwelshman]

I cannot believe how they wire here, no earth, and use the switches to run lights with no junction boxes so they just twist the neutrals and cover with bit of tape. Also crap plugs with no fuses !! Oh and often have 3 gang boxes with two power outlets and a light switch, even better having power and light circuits all together !!

[Crossy]

10 hours ago, oldwelshman said:

Also crap plugs with no fuses !! Oh and often have 3 gang boxes with two power outlets and a light switch, even better having power and light circuits all together !!

You may be surprised how much of the world has unfused plugs on 20A radials (pretty well everywhere except the UK, Malaysia, Singapore and HongKong). Lights and power on the same circuit is also extremely common.

 

Neither is dangerous, provided that it's wired properly (which is, of course, the rub here in LoS).

 

[sometimewoodworker]

On 6/8/2018 at 10:38 PM, oldwelshman said:

Also crap plugs with no fuses !! 

Why would you bother with plugs with fuses?

 

Oh yes, because they are designed for a system that had large pieces of wire to protect you from a short in your appliances, so you had to use a small piece of wire in the plugs.

 

But today there are RCCB's and MCB's that react in milliseconds and also provide protection from your appliances becoming live without a short tripping the MCB or burning out your thin wire in the plug.?

[oldwelshman]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 9:15 AM, Crossy said:

You may be surprised how much of the world has unfused plugs on 20A radials (pretty well everywhere except the UK, Malaysia, Singapore and HongKong). Lights and power on the same circuit is also extremely common.

 

Neither is dangerous, provided that it's wired properly (which is, of course, the rub here in LoS).

 

Except the fact you have a light with only protection is a 20a fuse with 1mm cable? ? Think the cable may burn before fuse blows lol

 

[oldwelshman]

14 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Why would you bother with plugs with fuses?

 

Oh yes, because they are designed for a system that had large pieces of wire to protect you from a short in your appliances, so you had to use a small piece of wire in the plugs.

 

But today there are RCCB's and MCB's that react in milliseconds and also provide protection from your appliances becoming live without a short tripping the MCB or burning out your thin wire in the plug.?

What about overload? Not just a short. RCCB wont trip if your tools is overloaded but the fuse would. Have you never had a fuse blow using woodwork tools such as saw, sander, plane? etc

 

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, oldwelshman said:

Except the fact you have a light with only protection is a 20a fuse with 1mm cable? ? Think the cable may burn before fuse blows lol

One wouldn't usually wire lighting in 1mm², even in the UK, 1.5 is usual (for purely physical reasons, 1 is a bit delicate). Bangkok Cable rates 1.5 THW at 21A in free air. Obviously, it's going to need de-rating when in conduit but a 20A breaker is going to open long before the cable smokes.

 

1 hour ago, oldwelshman said:

Have you never had a fuse blow using woodwork tools such as saw, sander, plane? etc

No, not in the UK because I don't overload my tools.

 

Remember, outlet circuits here are protected by a 20A breaker (not 32A like the UK ring-final), we don't actually need plug fuses.

 

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

10 hours ago, oldwelshman said:

What about overload? Not just a short. RCCB wont trip if your tools is overloaded but the fuse would. Have you never had a fuse blow using woodwork tools such as saw, sander, plane? etc

 

In over 50 years of power tool usage, a significant part of the time in the UK, I have never overloaded a tool, I have more respect for them and am still using tools I've had for that length of time. I have very occasionally damaged power cables and sometimes the fuse would blow.

 

Well no, the fuses would not blow with an overload, at least not until you have caused very significant damage to the tools and not quickly even then. For example a 13 Amp fuse will let 20 Amps (1.5x) pass all day without blowing, however an MCB will typically trip with a 1.25 X  to 1.5 X overload current.