On 5/29/2018 at 7:58 AM, BobBKK said:

As a Brit I am proud my country has given Thailand's first female PM a long visa and not thrown her back to the junta dogs. She should retire gracefully as she did her bit and is held in fond regard by most Thais. Don't forget, not voted out, thrown out and that is not the British way.

Yep, she can join other fine collection of people who've recently migrated to UK & lifting the living standards of the country!

No doubt, "the Puppeteer" assisted with some of his "charm" & other inducements!!

Like your comment "...not voted out, thrown out and that is not the British way." How do you classify holding of Julian Assange in Embassy for years....the British way????

 

I would be happier if she had to do 60/90 day visa runs in a mini van at high speed

Yep, she can join other fine collection of people who've recently migrated to UK & lifting the living standards of the country!

No doubt, "the Puppeteer" assisted with some of his "charm" & other inducements!!

Like your comment "...not voted out, thrown out and that is not the British way." How do you classify holding of Julian Assange in Embassy for years....the British way????

 

The British are not holding Assange - he's taken refuge in an Embassy to avoid extradition.

 

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31 minutes ago, eggers said:

 

Like your comment "...not voted out, thrown out and that is not the British way." How do you classify holding of Julian Assange in Embassy for years....the British way????

 

Julian Assange is not being held anywhere. He went to the Ecuadorian Embassy of his own free will and its staying there out of choice. He is not being forced to remain there, he is free to leave whenever he wants to.

10 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

The British are not holding Assange - he's taken refuge in an Embassy to avoid extradition.

 

 

Well, he did originally take refuge in the embassy to avoid a European arrest warrant that would have seen him taken to Sweden for questioning over rape allegations. That arrest warrant has since been cancelled and there are currently no extradition proceedings against him. If he left the embassy now, he would however be subject to arrest by British police for breaching his bail conditions.

1 hour ago, eggers said:

Yep, she can join other fine collection of people who've recently migrated to UK & lifting the living standards of the country!

No doubt, "the Puppeteer" assisted with some of his "charm" & other inducements!!

Like your comment "...not voted out, thrown out and that is not the British way." How do you classify holding of Julian Assange in Embassy for years....the British way????

 

It's not British territory, thought you'd know that.

13 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

The problem with voting her out is that it is practically impossible because she was never "elected" in the sense of the term. She held a party list seat and the only way she would not have become an MP or PM would have been for the PTP to have been wiped out at the next election and to have gained NO party list seats.

 

This is what I dislike the most about elections in Thailand.

 

IMHO there should be NO party list seats. Every MP should stand in a constituency for an election. Any MP from the election only who becomes a minister or PM  stays an MP as well and is not replaced with a bye election. In addition the successful MP MUST live in the constituency that they are elected to and MUST have a party office there and hold an open surgery at least 1 day per week for the constituents to meet and talk to their elected MP.

 

 

Well, under the new constitution, the Senate members are appointed including permanent seats for the armed forces.  The prime minister is also appointed and doesn't need to be a member of any party or indeed a politician.  The NCPO have guaranteed a military controlling power.  For example, the Senate can issue a vote of no confidence in the government at the time.

 

And once again, people are constantly saying that Yingluk was ousted by the coup leaders.  She wasn't.  The courts unseated her prior to the coup.

7 hours ago, StevieAus said:

Thanks for the info I will pass that on to my friend I he visits the UK and France each year and applies for the Schengen one each time

 I assumed you could only get it annually

Fortunately it’s not a problem for us as my Thai wife also has Australian citizenship and passport makes life a lot easier when traveling.

Simply indicate the MEV request on the application form and add a comment that they wish/need one for multiple years (And preferably also why incase the officer can') figure it out by him/herself) .

 

If he is a UK national (or any other EU/EEA) nationality except French, then a visa to France will also be absolutely free and with minimum documents etc. See the Schengen sticky in the 'visa to other countries ' forum:

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/25-visas-and-migration-to-other-countries/

 

EU home affairs & visa policy:

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/visa-policy_en

13 hours ago, jerojero said:

How does one leave your native country with a revoked passport, criminal record and then obtain a new passport issued by another (foreign) country? And is supposedly legitimate and thus honoured by a western country (UK)?

 

Perhaps she already had a passport from a different country before she was even charged with anything.

 

Do you remember how many times she went on trips abroad. Maybe Thaksin put in a word for her at some country or other.

 

As for the criminal record, she was charged with negligence IIRC by a coup derived government. How do you think that went down in western countries. It also seems that there is no red alert out for her on Interpol and without that she cannot be arrested and held anywhere except in Thailand.

8 hours ago, StevieAus said:

As in Europe economic refugees are welcomed with opened arms and benefits.

I'm not sure the refugees being held in detention camps on Nauru would agree with that.

5 hours ago, HHTel said:

 

 

And once again, people are constantly saying that Yingluk was ousted by the coup leaders.  She wasn't.  The courts unseated her prior to the coup.

I wonder why they are saying it.I wonder why the international press said that.I wonder why most Thais said that.

 

Could it be I wonder because most people not blinded by prejudice understand that Suthep and his middle class street mobs, the military leadership,the justice system and its associated agencies were working together for a particular goal.I'm not saying there was always organized co-ordination (though in the case of Prayuth and Suthep there was) but the enemies of democracy had a common objective.Thus it's not much more than semantics to say Yingluck was overthrown by a coup.

 

Similar rubbish was spouted by some on the forum (now strangely silent for the most part) when Thaksin was ousted.

10 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

I'm not sure the refugees being held in detention camps on Nauru would agree with that.

Depends from where they came also they could also have claimed asylum in the countries through which they passed but no doubt the free board and lodgings, medical services etc etc would not be as good.

If I said my wife has a 10 year multi entry for USA would it generate 16 pages of comments?

29 minutes ago, jayboy said:

I wonder why they are saying it.I wonder why the international press said that.I wonder why most Thais said that.

 

Could it be I wonder because most people not blinded by prejudice understand that Suthep and his middle class street mobs, the military leadership,the justice system and its associated agencies were working together for a particular goal.I'm not saying there was always organized co-ordination (though in the case of Prayuth and Suthep there was) but the enemies of democracy had a common objective.Thus it's not much more than semantics to say Yingluck was overthrown by a coup.

 

Similar rubbish was spouted by some on the forum (now strangely silent for the most part) when Thaksin was ousted.

Firstly, the International Press didn't say that.  I have a lot of sympathy for Yingluk and I'm glad she's got herself a place to stay.

Just stating a fact that Prayut and his cronies didn't take her seat.  That was taken over an 'abuse of power' that happened 3 years before the coup.

 

Quote

In a unanimous decision, the constitutional court ruled that Yingluck had acted with a hidden agenda when she transferred a senior civil servant to another position shortly after taking office in 2011.

"The prime minister's status has come to an end," one of the court's nine judges said in a statement broadcast live on television. "Yingluck can no longer stay in her position acting as caretaker prime minister."

Was that the work of the Junta?  Coup or not, an 'elected prime minister' was not ousted.  She was a 'caretaker', not elected.

If I said my wife has a 10 year multi entry for USA would it generate 16 pages of comments?

It would if you were married to Yingluck.

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33 minutes ago, HHTel said:

Firstly, the International Press didn't say that.  I have a lot of sympathy for Yingluk and I'm glad she's got herself a place to stay.

 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/10852060/Thai-army-detains-former-PM-Yingluck-after-military-coup.html

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/07/thai-prime-minister-yingluck-shinawatra-steps-down

 

https://www.economist.com/asia/2014/05/10/out-of-luck

 

You have apparently ignored the reality that judiciary , military and other vested interests were working together. - which I was at pains to point out.This was not however lost on the international press.There was as the Economist pointed out a judicial coup.The military's assigned role was to administer the coup de grace to democracy.

Edited May 30, 20188 yr by jayboy

7 hours ago, HHTel said:

And once again, people are constantly saying that Yingluk was ousted by the coup leaders.  She wasn't.  The courts unseated her prior to the coup.

Let us not leave it there, you are omitting a rather important bit of the "matrix"  The coup was mounted whilst an entirely legal and constitutional election was in progress. An election in which Yingluck was standing (again in accordance with the terms of the constitution) and an election which it was very likely she would win. Of course, it is pure conjecture whether she would have won that election, and thus be returned to power, but in pondering that perhaps we could consider the remarkably similar circumstances around the previous coup. Anyway, I am sure that you, as such a stickler for getting all the nuances surrounding the coup and Yingluck's "ousting" entirely accurate, will agree that it should be mentioned.

 

I hope this helps...

Just read in the Dutch news that thousands of rich Russians and Chinese from dubious circles have bought visa's and passports for European countries.

There does not seem to be any transparency. the European Union is investigating.

On 5/29/2018 at 6:27 AM, Thailand said:

Perhaps P is seeing the writing on the wall and is actually going to the EU to apply for a passport.

Will he too be charged with crimes like his 2 elected predecessors were? ... after he relinquishes his rule... or does Article 44 forever preclude the possibility of criminal charges? They call it a coup these days, but in past centuries it would have been called high treason. Spin it any way you like, but if the army in your home country started rolling tanks into parliament to oust the elected government, what would you call that? The interesting thing was that many foreigners on this forum supported the coup. Maybe it was the hot tropical sun.

On 5/29/2018 at 5:06 AM, Thechook said:

Ouch this has to hurt the military junta and it's 2 supporters.  Contrary to what. Prayuth really believes, the world doesn't support his military rule and see Yingluk as a political refugee

2 Supporters ?
We know Steven 100 is his main cheerleader, but who is the other one ?
I think we should be told !

?

11 hours ago, StevieAus said:

It seems to be the attitude of governments elsewhere as well, once you leave your rights dissapear.

In Australia apart from attempting to screw retirees by restricting who can obtain the retirement pension the government introduced a provision about two years ago that requires you stay for two years after first receiving the pension or you loose it.

As in Europe economic refugees are welcomed with opened arms and benefits.

Absolutely not true.

22 hours ago, tropo said:

It doesn't matter who brought the charges. No foreign government will recognise a court presided over by a junta... and putting the leader they ousted in that court makes the situation even more pathetic. Surely you realise the court is given its authority by the government, which at the moment is a one-man show, that has absolute authority. When people like you, who should know better, can't get this, it's no surprise he has the whole country hoodwinked.

When  people  like me  who  have a  different  outlook than  your  own are  therefore  deemed to  know  better  than  what?

The charges against  Yingluck  were brought   before  the  Junta takeover. The  Junta  did  not  put  her in court. She was  already  on her  way  there.

It  is  your  own  interpretation  of the  outcome  that the  conclusion  was  directed  by  the  Junta.

But a  more  reasonable opinion would  be that  in the face of the  facts that  under   law  existing  before  the  Junta  and in  actuality ratified  by several previous Governments  favourable to  the  Shiniwatra dynasty that the outcome  was  inevitable. 

"He has the  whole  country  hoodwinked".

Which " he " do you  intend  to attribute   that  statement  to?

The   he  who took  advantage of cultural  acceptance  of  classist  dependancy? 

Or  the   he  who has   admittedly stumbled in  encouraging  individual  thought  and  advancement?

 

 

 

3 hours ago, StevieAus said:

Depends from where they came also they could also have claimed asylum in the countries through which they passed but no doubt the free board and lodgings, medical services etc etc would not be as good.

 

IIRC many of the refugees came via or from Indonesia.

26 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

The charges against  Yingluck  were brought   before  the  Junta takeover. The  Junta  did  not  put  her in court. She was  already  on her  way  there.

That same NACC who has procrastinated on Prawit case brought charges on her. That’s about right and politically correct.

25 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

When  people  like me  who  have a  different  outlook than  your  own are  therefore  deemed to  know  better  than  what?

The charges against  Yingluck  were brought   before  the  Junta takeover. The  Junta  did  not  put  her in court. She was  already  on her  way  there.

It  is  your  own  interpretation  of the  outcome  that the  conclusion  was  directed  by  the  Junta.

But a  more  reasonable opinion would  be that  in the face of the  facts that  under   law  existing  before  the  Junta  and in  actuality ratified  by several previous Governments  favourable to  the  Shiniwatra dynasty that the outcome  was  inevitable. 

"He has the  whole  country  hoodwinked".

Which " he " do you  intend  to attribute   that  statement  to?

The   he  who took  advantage of cultural  acceptance  of  classist  dependancy? 

Or  the   he  who has   admittedly stumbled in  encouraging  individual  thought  and  advancement?

78

She was convicted more than 3 years after the coup, so how does that look to outside governments? Like revenge. 

8 minutes ago, tropo said:

She was convicted more than 3 years after the coup, so how does that look to outside governments? Like revenge. 

 

 

No.

 

Justice in Thailand takes time.

 

 

You wouldn’t have wanted a hastily constructed case without evidence - would you?

13 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

No.

 

Justice in Thailand takes time.

 

You wouldn’t have wanted a hastily constructed case without evidence - would you?

 

 

 Under the current government, it's all a charade, including justice... but when we're discussing the issuance of visas by other countries, it's how it looks from the outside that counts.

Edited May 30, 20188 yr by tropo

53 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

When  people  like me  who  have a  different  outlook than  your  own are  therefore  deemed to  know  better  than  what?

The charges against  Yingluck  were brought   before  the  Junta takeover. The  Junta  did  not  put  her in court. She was  already  on her  way  there.

It  is  your  own  interpretation  of the  outcome  that the  conclusion  was  directed  by  the  Junta.

But a  more  reasonable opinion would  be that  in the face of the  facts that  under   law  existing  before  the  Junta  and in  actuality ratified  by several previous Governments  favourable to  the  Shiniwatra dynasty that the outcome  was  inevitable. 

"He has the  whole  country  hoodwinked".

Which " he " do you  intend  to attribute   that  statement  to?

The   he  who took  advantage of cultural  acceptance  of  classist  dependancy? 

Or  the   he  who has   admittedly stumbled in  encouraging  individual  thought  and  advancement?

 

 

For all the world like the Army, Suthep, the Dems, the Courts and the Civil Service weren't acting in concert in a treasonous conspiracy.

 

Grow up.

52 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

When  people  like me  who  have a  different  outlook than  your  own are  therefore  deemed to  know  better  than  what?

The charges against  Yingluck  were brought   before  the  Junta takeover. The  Junta  did  not  put  her in court. She was  already  on her  way  there.

It  is  your  own  interpretation  of the  outcome  that the  conclusion  was  directed  by  the  Junta.

But a  more  reasonable opinion would  be that  in the face of the  facts that  under   law  existing  before  the  Junta  and in  actuality ratified  by several previous Governments  favourable to  the  Shiniwatra dynasty that the outcome  was  inevitable. 

"He has the  whole  country  hoodwinked".

Which " he " do you  intend  to attribute   that  statement  to?

The   he  who took  advantage of cultural  acceptance  of  classist  dependancy? 

Or  the   he  who has   admittedly stumbled in  encouraging  individual  thought  and  advancement?

 

 

 

I both agree and disagree with you. I agree that it is not necessarily due to the Junta. Actually it is due to the fact that the judiciary and semi-judiciary (I.e. NACC) are on the same side of the political arena as the Junta. The presence of the junta is only an aggravating factor as they have the exclusive power to appoint members of the judiciary and semi-judiciary (which is not the case for an elected government). The Judiciary is not dependent on elected governments so it is not surprising that Yingluck got convicted or investigated while in power. It does not prove that the judiciary is neutral and is exempt of political concern.

Foreign countries are quite aware of it through their embassy (the US embassy cable leaks are quite instructing about the level of understanding of Thailand's politics that diplomats can reach).

On 5/30/2018 at 7:59 AM, StevieAus said:

It seems to be the attitude of governments elsewhere as well, once you leave your rights dissapear.

In Australia apart from attempting to screw retirees by restricting who can obtain the retirement pension the government introduced a provision about two years ago that requires you stay for two years after first receiving the pension or you loose it.

As in Europe economic refugees are welcomed with opened arms and benefits.

Who invented that and why ?  Similar to being out of the UK for more than 6 months means you no longer receive the annual increase .  These are really human rights infringements and how the governments get away with it is a real mystery . At the end of your working life and now a pensioner you should be free to do what you like and the government should be thanking you for all of the monetary contributions you have made throughout your working life .

Feels like a kick in the whatsits . I used to admire Australia for its strict immigration policies but now I hear it is much the same as most other capitalist countries .