Skimming

[bluesofa]

3 minutes ago, AlQaholic said:

I don't know why they don't abolish the atm and credit cards for good. should be possible to do using the phone and some bank app. SCB at least now has a system in place where you can get money from ATMs using your phone only.

OK, tell me more, tell me more....

 

[AlQaholic]

5 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

OK, tell me more, tell me more....

 

Well, for it to work internationally, it would have to be standardized in some way over the borders. With my SCB account, I just enter how much to take out in my SCB app, then I receive a code from SCB via the app (not SMS) which I enter into the ATM. Unfortunately, for now, it only works with SCB ATM machines.

Edited June 1, 2018 by AlQaholic

[Pib]

17 hours ago, bluesofa said:

FWIW, The Bank Of Thailand told me they have finished upgrading all ATMS, so when a new card with the chip is inserted, it will read the chip details (even though the card still has the magnetic strip on the back.)

 

I know that might seem crazy, but apparently until everyone globally is using the chipped card, the magnetic strip will still be on the card.

From what I've read, I understand the US has only relatively recently started to issue the chip & pin card, it has been reluctant to changeover. It was introduced across Europe in the 1990s.

 

Regarding U.S. debit/credit card transitioning to chip cards, I have around 10 U.S. debit and credit cards from a variety of banks and credit card companies....all 10 have been upgraded to chips for at least a year or more. 

[Ulic]

Thanks for the riminder. I too only use my bank card and credit card at ATMs while in Thailand. They send a instant withdrawal notic when I  make one. I receive it while still at the ATM on my smart phone. They did put a fraud alert freeze for a Internet purchase in the USA once. They sent me a replacement card from Canada in 48 hours to the address I gave them here in Thailand. It was all very impressive

[dotpoom]

I am sad that this has happened to you and glad your bank put a stop to it but with respect......you write about it as if it is an utterly rare thing that this could happen to a person.

  I would imagine that 99.9 % of people with credit cards worry about this type of thing....from booking flights online to withdrawing money at ATMs. Myself (and most people I see around me) even cover their actions by placing a hand over the buttons while entering their PIN No. for fear of hidden cameras etc.,

[bluesofa]

30 minutes ago, Pib said:

Regarding U.S. debit/credit card transitioning to chip cards, I have around 10 U.S. debit and credit cards from a variety of banks and credit card companies....all 10 have been upgraded to chips for at least a year or more. 

Hi again! Thanks for the info.

Having read before that the US were now starting to use chip & PIN cards more, I googled and saw some entries a year or so back regarding US customers asking about new issues specific to these cards. It's good to hear it does seem to be happening there now.

Hopefully in a couple of years it might enable the magnetic strip to become obsolete, unless there are other countries still issuing cards with it only - without the chip.

 

[Belzybob]

19 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

Thanks for the reminder.

It's long since I used a home country card at an ATM here.

And if something is fishy at my Thai accounts I would quickly find out.

Much of the problem lies in the lazy-ness of the banks to finally abolish this antiquated magnetic stripe system.

Chip cards should be harder to skim?

I've had two instances (one with a chip and pin card) that were put down to skimming, but I'm certain were not. One card had only been used twice, once a bank online transaction and one phone transaction with a major telco. Card was barely a week old when it was cancelled. Banks are loathe to admit that they have any security issues.

[goldenbrwn1]

I would say prob 50/50on whether I had to enter my pin no on purchases using my credit card here a year ago. Now I have had to enter it on every purchase at every store except shopping at Tesco’s. At Tesco’s it still just goes straight through ??‍♂️.

 

I have a U.K. 0% world purchase card so it’s beneficial for me to use and just clear my account through online banking after every purchase. 

 

I will say..even though most stores now need a pin no , they really need to start having their POP machines on a longer leash so I don’t have to invade their service area!

 

For atm withdrawals I use a top up fx card which is only loaded minutes before I withdraw the said amount... My Thai bank card I really only try to use inside actual  banks but sometimes when needed I use outdoor atms and try the usual tests of tampering and hiding  my pin no input.

The rest I leave to fate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bluesofa]

4 minutes ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

I would say prob 50/50on whether I had to enter my pin no on purchases using my credit card here a year ago. Now I have had to enter it on every purchase at every store except shopping at Tesco’s. At Tesco’s it still just goes straight through ??‍♂️.

 

I have a U.K. 0% world purchase card so it’s beneficial for me to use and just clear my account through online banking after every purchase. 

{snipped}

If it's a UK card, I would guess that might be down to the UK bank issuing it to request a PIN verification. I think that within Europe they seems to require a PIN verification nationally unless it's a small amount.

I wonder why the same card goes through at Tesco without any verification - unless that's always small amounts?

 

[sanemax]

18 hours ago, Russell17au said:

Over the last 12 months I have only ever used 3 ATM's and those 3 are located inside shopping malls and in a secured area at a bank and that is a worry because where is it safe to use a card now

Why dont you make withdrawals over the counter at a bank ?

No skimming and no ATM charge and no chance of your card getting eaten

[goldenbrwn1]

39 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

If it's a UK card, I would guess that might be down to the UK bank issuing it to request a PIN verification. I think that within Europe they seems to require a PIN verification nationally unless it's a small amount.

I wonder why the same card goes through at Tesco without any verification - unless that's always small amounts?

 

A year ago I rarely had to use my pin..only for shopping in the big malls. I did have a few problems in some establishments but that was the staff trying to override the pin no request ( didn’t understand it and would rather just tell me my card is no good). But now there seems to be a massively increased understanding of the technology here and that includes understanding when I say I would like to pay in Thai baht and not pounds sterling. The no of times I had to have the transaction reversed because they used the “dynamic currency conversion “ in the past was so frustrating. 

 

Now even for small transactions my pin  is required. Only yesterday in topps I bought a 49baht protein shake and my pin was required.

 

Tescos is always a large amount as that’s where I grocery shop mainly.

 

Edited June 1, 2018 by goldenbrwn1

[dallen52]

20 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

Thanks for the reminder.

It's long since I used a home country card at an ATM here.

And if something is fishy at my Thai accounts I would quickly find out.

Much of the problem lies in the lazy-ness of the banks to finally abolish this antiquated magnetic stripe system.

Chip cards should be harder to skim?

Wont be long and Pay Wave skimming will hit the news.

Most cards have a pre authority amount of $100.

Tap and go, etc.

It just takes $100 each time you tap, or activate the reader.

 

I use my Aussie card for big purchases.

Get 55 days interest free, no surcharges so I have noticed too..

Stand and watch it come up on phone as it processes. 

NEVER stick one in an atm here... no way.

[masuk]

19 hours ago, bluesofa said:

Again from what I've read about this, within Thailand, the BOT has allowed each retailer themselves to choose the verification method they want to use: PIN, signature, or no verification for transactions below a certain value.

 

To me, it makes it almost pointless having signature verification, as in Thailand I have never, ever, had my signature checked against my card. If the BOT was on the ball, it would force retailers to require a PIN verification. So far, sadly, I have not seem one retailer requesting my PIN for a purchase.

 

When I sign my name, I usually sign 'Enid Blyton' (a UK children's author), just because I can, and to show what a stupid system it is. Twice I have signed as 'Rumpelstiltskin'.

 

You're not alone there.  TOPS have never once, in 3 years, compared my signature to my card signature.   Now I have been issued with a 6 digit PIN, and the last 3 times, I was told there was a connection problem with BKK Banks and to go and withdraw cash from one of the nearby ATMs.

 

[gandalf12]

21 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

Thanks for the reminder.

It's long since I used a home country card at an ATM here.

And if something is fishy at my Thai accounts I would quickly find out.

Much of the problem lies in the lazy-ness of the banks to finally abolish this antiquated magnetic stripe system.

Chip cards should be harder to skim?

PIN & CHIP are harder but there are more effective ways. Using a retinal scan was tested and found to be as near to 100% perfect as you could get. The magnetic strip is an invite to unscrupulous persons. You should always check the slide for your card before you use it. If it isnt flush then walk away, it could well be a skimmer device inserted into the slot

[Sakeopete]

As far as using ATM to withdraw cash I don't anymore.  SCB's cardless transaction is great. It is done on your phone with a generated pin that is only good for 15 minutes. Very safe way to withdraw cash and no fee no matter where your branch is located.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Sakeopete

[gandalf12]

2 minutes ago, Sakeopete said:

As far as using ATM to withdraw cash I don't anymore.  SCB's cardless transaction is great. It is done on your phone with a generated pin that is only good for 15 minutes. Very safe way to withdraw cash and no fee no matter where your branch is located.

Just for your information it has been shown that the information you send using your phone can easily be intercepted and used by unauthorised persons. Use it yes but be careful

[weegee]

22 hours ago, Russell17au said:

I only used my card in heavy trafficked areas like at Big C and at the Main Bank branch, but it still got skimmed

Sounds like an insider to me....

[Russell17au]

13 minutes ago, weegee said:

Sounds like an insider to me....

I think you better stop drinking that Jim Bean because what you are saying does not make any sense or maybe you should read the whole thread

[weegee]

7 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

I think you better stop drinking that Jim Bean because what you are saying does not make any sense or maybe you should read the whole thread

I DONT drink Jim Bean....only Jack Daniels....

Wouldnt it be easier for someone who is an employee of the bank to set up a skimmer?...does that make sense

[Russell17au]

4 minutes ago, weegee said:

I DONT drink Jim Bean....only Jack Daniels....

Wouldnt it be easier for someone who is an employee of the bank to set up a skimmer?...does that make sense

Sorry, I was busy and I did not look at your avatar properly.

Well, for one thing bank staff do not have access to the ATM machines at Big C, Tesco Lotus or Makro as these machines are not attached to a bank, they are free standing machines that are only accessible while the stores are open. They would only have access at the bank itself. The only ones that have access to all ATM's is the security company who refills them. So I very much doubt that any bank staff or the security staff members would be involved because none of them attend the machines on their own.

[blackcab]

8 hours ago, Russell17au said:

The only ones that have access to all ATM's is the security company who refills them. So I very much doubt that any bank staff or the security staff members would be involved because none of them attend the machines on their own.

 

ATM technicians often work alone. They have access to the top portion of the ATM where the card reader, etc is housed.

[Just Weird]

On ‎5‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 2:03 PM, KhunBENQ said:

Thanks for the reminder.

It's long since I used a home country card at an ATM here.

And if something is fishy at my Thai accounts I would quickly find out.

Much of the problem lies in the lazy-ness of the banks to finally abolish this antiquated magnetic stripe system.

Chip cards should be harder to skim?

You mean the chipped cards that the Thai banks have been issuing for ages?   Which banks are not issuing chipped cards in your experience?

Edited June 1, 2018 by Just Weird

[Captor]

Nowadays you can buy wallets that are safe for having credit cards in it because they are so easy to read for someone with a small RFID reader in the pocket! So they are not so very secure. I have already 2 of those wallets..

I believe the magnetic strip is more secure because the perpetrator need to be in very close distance.

When having an RFID chip the perpetrator can stand 4-5 m away and "read" everything on the card.

 

The banks are aware of this problem but it is still cheaper for them to deal with paying back moneys to customers than finding another solution.

[bluesofa]

13 hours ago, Captor said:

Nowadays you can buy wallets that are safe for having credit cards in it because they are so easy to read for someone with a small RFID reader in the pocket! So they are not so very secure. I have already 2 of those wallets..

I believe the magnetic strip is more secure because the perpetrator need to be in very close distance.

When having an RFID chip the perpetrator can stand 4-5 m away and "read" everything on the card.

 

The banks are aware of this problem but it is still cheaper for them to deal with paying back moneys to customers than finding another solution.

Those wallets you mention will protect against reading the data on the card.

 

I don't understand why you have mentioned RFID? Certainly RFID is a a very versatile standard and can be configured from a few metres up to hundreds of metres depending on what is being used for.

I remember in the 1990s a friend was working on a project reading RFID tags on shipping containers transiting an international port.

 

Contactless payments for smart cards - credit and debit cards, use the NFC protocol (Near Field Communications) which works at up to 4cm between the card and the reader.

I would be interested if you have any links to reports of smart cards being read at 4-5m? I read an article last year about an ethical hacker who built a unit into a laptop to try reading smart cards. He succeeded, but had to be so close to the person that he had to brush against them.

 

[Chivas]

My Halifax card was skimmed in 2015 from the Kasikorn ATM opposite Alcazar. Because as always I transfer money into that account minutes before using the card they only got £70 or so that was already in there

Halifax no quibble response and money refunded within 24 hours subsequently. Fortunately it came to light literally the day I was leaving. Wouldnt have been an issue of early in the trip but always worth having back up in hard cash which is why I never do a trip without £3,000 hard cash.

[Russell17au]

The replacement cards arrived today and they are still the older type cards with the 4 digit pin but one amusing thing is that my account is an Australian account but the cards came from Mastercard UK and I had to ring the UK to activate them.

One thing that I still cannot work out is how did they get the CVV number from the back of the card, it is not recorded on the magnetic strip or anywhere except printed on the back of the card and recorded at my bank. The only thing that I can think of is a camera placed below the card reader or even down in front of the ATM facing upward to capture the CVV number as the car is inserted into the card reader.

[Russell17au]

16 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

ATM technicians often work alone. They have access to the top portion of the ATM where the card reader, etc is housed.

I did not think of them blackcab and they would be able to set anything up in the machine to read the card and get the CVV number and no one would take any notice of a technician working on the ATM even in a busy shopping centre like Big C.

[hakancnx]

I scratch away the CVV. So no one can see it. And keep it at the same secure place as the pin code. 

[Russell17au]

1 minute ago, hakancnx said:

I scratch away the CVV. So no one can see it. And keep it at the same secure place as the pin code. 

That is a bloody good idea because you do not need the CVV code unless you are doing purchases online so it could be removed from the card and stored at home somewhere. Thanks for that hakancnx

[AlQaholic]

On 6/1/2018 at 11:08 AM, masuk said:

You're not alone there.  TOPS have never once, in 3 years, compared my signature to my card signature.   Now I have been issued with a 6 digit PIN, and the last 3 times, I was told there was a connection problem with BKK Banks and to go and withdraw cash from one of the nearby ATMs.

 

Well, in the age of surveillance cameras everywhere, why even bother with signatures and pins?