Thai driving License in Udon Thani

[jackdd]

I recently got my Thai driving License in Udon Thani, here my experience for anyone interested

 

First i thought i have to go to the "Udon Thani Provincial Land Transport Office" where i went when i registered a motorbike on my name, but a bit outside of Udon Thani at the big road (Thanon Mithrapap) going to Khoan Kaen is another "Udon Thani Provincial Land Transport Office" (in Thai that add 1 or 2 to the name, on Google it does both have the same name) which is responsible for the driving licenses.

I'm in Thailand on a tourist Visa and i have a Driving License and an International Driving Permit from Germany for Motorbikes and Cars, so i wanted to convert this to a Thai Driving License.

 

First i called them to confirm which documents i need, these are:

2x Certificate of Residence (one original for each License)

1x Medical Certificate from a clinic (here only one original is enough, for the scond license they can use a copy)

Copies of Passport, Driving License and IDP.

 

Then i headed to the immigration police office in Udon Thani, and took my GF in her army uniform with me (i always wanted to know if this gives me an advantage, so today i tried it)

For the two Certificate of Residence they needed three Photos (normally two for one CoR, but when you want two CoR, then three Photos are enough)

My GF did indeed give me an advantage, skipped the queue and i got the two Certificate of Residence for free.

The last time when i went alone they charged me 500 THB for one, so i assume normally two would be something between 500 THB and 1000 THB, probably negotiable. As many people here know these should normally be free, but well...

 

Then i went to the first clinic that i found outside. They charged me 150THB for the certificate, i think kinda on the pricey side, but looking for another clinic just to save 50 THB was not worth it.

 

Then i went to the "Udon Thani Provincial Land Transport Office" as mentioned above. I used the copy service inside there, in total they took 13 copies. One of the medical certificate, and 12 other copies (one copy for each license, so 6 different copies) of passport, driving license, IDP not sure what exactly. Total cost for the copies 26 THB.

Next i headed upstairs to apply for the license, handed over all my papers, she sorted it and i had to sign something. Then i had to make the vision / reaction test. After succesfully passing this test i had to sign something again and pay 310 THB (105 THB for motorbike license and 205 THB for car license). Then i went over to the "photo booth" where they took a photo,  printed my driving licenses and then i was done.

Took me about 2 hours total.

[Kzee]

Very helpful information! One question, did you need to show some kind of residential documemt to get Certificate of Residence or just filling in the address?   I appreciate your input in advance.

 

[jackdd]

I don't know this 100%, because when i went there my GF also filed the TM30 (and i filed the TM28) which includes the address (she is renting the place, i just stay there with her, so i don't have any contract in my name)

I would expect that if you are in their system because somebody (your landlord) filed the TM30 you can get the Certificate of Residence without showing a rental contract. If you are unknown to them probably they want to see a rental contract or something similar.

If you are wondering what a TM30 is: https://perfecthomes.co.th/tm030-registration-thailand/

Edited June 1, 2018 by jackdd

[Kzee]

Ok, I'm going to Udon Thani and try to get a licence next week. Will see how it goes. I appreciate your feedback. Danke!

[KhunBENQ]

On 5/31/2018 at 3:59 PM, jackdd said:

I'm in Thailand on a tourist Visa and i have a Driving License and an International Driving Permit from Germany for Motorbikes and Cars, so i wanted to convert this to a Thai Driving License.

Your license is a EU license (plastic card)?

The IDP from Germany is (as usual) one based on the "1968" convention?

(officially not acknowledged in Thailand)

 

Do you have an idea whether they were interested in the IDP or whether the EU license would have been enough?

 

I am asking because there are a couple of discussions going on here and in German language forums.

 

[jackdd]

42 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

Your license is a EU license (plastic card)?

The IDP from Germany is (as usual) one based on the "1968" convention? 

(officially not acknowledged in Thailand)

  

Do you have an idea whether they were interested in the IDP or whether the EU license would have been enough? 

  

I am asking because there are a couple of discussions going on here and in German language forums. 

 

Yes, the plastic card, issued in 2015 together with the IDP based on the 1968 convention, issued this year.

The copy shop took copies of my IDP, and the woman working at the DLT kept these copies, so i would say they were interested in them. I don't know if it would have been possible like this if i would not have had the IDP

 

But according to my own research regarding IDPs, which i consolidated here:

The IDP based on the 1968 convention is imho not valid in Thailand. This was the reason that i wanted to have a Thai driving license.

Either police (never had a problem with the IDP in a police check) and DLT (they gave me the Thai license based on it) are not aware that this IDP is not valid in Thailand, or there is some law or similar which states that it's valid (which i didn't find yet and also nobody else could provide).

Right now i assume that neither the police nor the DLT are aware that an IDP based on the 1968 convention is not valid in Thailand. But if i'm ever involved in an accident and an insurance (car, health, whatever) has to pay a significant amount of money, their lawyers would probably figure out that the IDP was not valid and they would refuse to pay.

[KhunBENQ]

20 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Right now i assume that neither the police nor the DLT are aware that an IDP based on the 1968 convention is not valid in Thailand.

Some DLTs have refused to acknowledge the 1968 version.

Pattaya being most prominent.

[Peterw42]

9 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

Some DLTs have refused to acknowledge the 1968 version.

Pattaya being most prominent.

Not many countries have signed or ratified the 1968 convention. US, UK, Australia have not signed.

Pic below show that Thailand abides by the 1968 treaty.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_Road_Traffic

Edited June 1, 2018 by Peterw42

[jackdd]

5 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Not many countries have signed or ratified the 1968 convention. US, UK, Australia have not signed.

Pic below show that Thailand abides by the 1968 treaty. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_Road_Traffic

As somebody added to the article on wikipedia already: [clarification needed]

Where can we find an official statement that Thailand is abiding to the 1968 treaty? Nobody could provide this yet, so probably the information on wikipedia is wrong.

[Peterw42]

10 minutes ago, jackdd said:

As somebody added to the article on wikipedia already: [clarification needed]

Where can we find an official statement that Thailand is abiding to the 1968 treaty? Nobody could provide this yet, so probably the information on wikipedia is wrong.

this PDF document

 

http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/conventn/CP_Vienna_convention.pdf

 

 

or this page

http://www.adcidl.com/countries-convention-of-road-traffic-1968.html

 

 

[jackdd]

3 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

this PDF document

 

http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/conventn/CP_Vienna_convention.pdf

 

 

or this page

http://www.adcidl.com/countries-convention-of-road-traffic-1968.html

 

 

The 1968 convention has to be ratified to be valid, i explained this in the other thread already (with quote). Thailand just signed it, so it's not valid

And let's keep the discussion about the IDP in the other thread, then it's not off topic.

Edited June 1, 2018 by jackdd

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, jackdd said:

The 1968 convention has to be ratified to be valid, i explained this in the other thread already (with quote). Thailand just signed it, so it's not valid

And let's keep the discussion about the IDP in the other thread, then it's not off topic.

US, UK, Australia, Canada and many other countries have also not ratified the 1968 treaty. Does that mean Europeans cannot drive in those countries either ??????

[jackdd]

10 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

US, UK, Australia, Canada and many other countries have also not ratified the 1968 treaty. Does that mean Europeans cannot drive in those countries either ?????? 

UK does (at least until the Brexit is executed) belong to the European Union, so an EU driving license, for example the German one, is valid there without an IDP.

 

Most European countries signed and ratified the 1949 treaty, as you can see here: https://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetailsV.aspx?src=TREATY&mtdsg_no=XI-B-1&chapter=11&Temp=mtdsg5&clang=_en

So people with a license from Austria, Denmark, France and all the other countries on this list can get an IDP according to the 1949 convention which does of course allow them to drive in US, UK, Australia, Canada. Probably in 1949 Germany did just have other things to worry about than signing this treaty ?

 

Can people with a German driving license or any people with a driving license from any country who just signed the 1968 treaty but not the 1949 treaty drive in US, UK, Australia, Canada? Depends on the laws in these countries, i did never have a look at these laws yet so i can't answer this question.

Of course a country might have a law like "EU driving licenses are accepted" or even if they never signed and ratified the 1968 treaty they might have a law like "An IDP according to the 1968 is accepted". But Thailand doesn't seem to have this, so an 1968 IDP is not valid in Thailand.

[Peterw42]

10 minutes ago, jackdd said:

UK does (at least until the Brexit is executed) belong to the European Union, so an EU driving license, for example the German one, is valid there without an IDP.

 

Most European countries signed and ratified the 1949 treaty, as you can see here: https://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetailsV.aspx?src=TREATY&mtdsg_no=XI-B-1&chapter=11&Temp=mtdsg5&clang=_en

So people with a license from Austria, Denmark, France and all the other countries on this list can get an IDP according to the 1949 convention which does of course allow them to drive in US, UK, Australia, Canada. Probably in 1949 Germany did just have other things to worry about than signing this treaty ?

 

Can people with a German driving license or any people with a driving license from any country who just signed the 1968 treaty but not the 1949 treaty drive in US, UK, Australia, Canada? Depends on the laws in these countries, i did never have a look at these laws yet so i can't answer this question.

Of course a country might have a law like "EU driving licenses are accepted" or even if they never signed and ratified the 1968 treaty they might have a law like "An IDP according to the 1968 is accepted". But Thailand doesn't seem to have this, so an 1968 IDP is not valid in Thailand.

As with any laws, legislation, treaties etc, there is the law, legislation, treaties "as written" and the Law, legislation treaties as interpreted, understood and practised.

Its universally understood and practised that IDPs from whatever treaty is accepted by countries that have signed whatever treaty.

You can pull apart any legislation in the world and find a semantic wording or technicality that is contrary to the practice of the law.

There are obscure channel islands in the UK who are technically still at war with Germany because they got left off the amistance treaty etc.

 

The whole speculative exercise just confuses what is a pretty straight forward situation. IDPs from all over the world, no mater what treaty, are universally accepted in Thailand. Nobody has been refused a license or prosecuted because their home country signed a treaty in blue ink instead of black ink, signed one treaty but didnt sign the other etc.

As you are aware, your local DLT accepted your home license, IDP etc in exchange for a Thai license, the law as

practised.

 

There is already a great deal of confusion surrounding IDPs (people think they are stand alone licences etc) why add to the confusion with personal legal opinions ?

 

Its the same for the "after 90 days get a Thai license" thing, its universally understood and practised, even if the actual legislation is not that clear. Its the law as understood and practised and widely published. Again, why add to an already confusing situation with personal interpretations of the law.

 

[jackdd]

58 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

IDPs from all over the world, no mater what treaty, are universally accepted in Thailand. Nobody has been refused a license or prosecuted because their home country signed a treaty in blue ink instead of black ink, signed one treaty but didnt sign the other etc.

KhunBENQ just said in the post above that the DLT in Pattaya doesn't accept an 1968 IDP, so how is it "universally accepted" in Thailand?

 

58 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Its the same for the "after 90 days get a Thai license" thing, its universally understood and practised, even if the actual legislation is not that clear. Its the law as understood and practised and widely published. Again, why add to an already confusing situation with personal interpretations of the law.

Because in the law there is no paragraph saying it is only valid for 90 days. But actually there is a section in the treaty which says it's valid for a year. Did you ever hear of anybody who had problems with it after 90 days? Imho the "90 days rule" is just something people copy from each other without ever looking at the laws.

 

58 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

why add to the confusion with personal legal opinions ?

It's not my "personal opinion", because everything i said is backed by an official source. But your "90 days rule" is a personal opinion, because nobody here did ever provide an official source for it.

 

And actually i just try to help people who could find themself in big trouble if they listen to wrongfully given advice like that a German IDP is valid in Thailand.

Let's say somebody travels to Thailand with his German license and German IDP and has a health insurance from a German insurance company which also covers him while riding a motorbike. Now in Thailand he is involved in a serious accident and ends up in Hospital for a while, and in the end has to pay a bill of 2 million THB. The insurance company will 100% get one of their lawyers on this, and their lawyer will figure out the the German IDP is not valid in Thailand according to the laws (the same laws that i looked at, see all the quotes in the other topic). And then the health insurance will just refuse to pay because he drove without having a valid license.

Edited June 2, 2018 by jackdd

[Peterw42]

12 minutes ago, jackdd said:

KhunBENQ just said in the post above that the DLT in Pattaya doesn't accept an 1968 IDP, so how is it "universally accepted" in Thailand?

 

Because in the law there is no paragraph saying it is only valid for 90 days. But actually there is a section in the treaty which says it's valid for a year. Did you ever hear of anybody who had problems with it after 90 days? Imho the "90 days rule" is just something people copy from each other without ever looking at the laws.

 

It's not my "personal opinion", because everything i said is backed by an official source. But your "90 days rule" is a personal opinion, because nobody here did ever provide an official source for it.

 

And actually i just try to help people who could find themself in big trouble if they listen to wrongfully given advice like that a German IDP is valid in Thailand.

Let's say somebody travels to Thailand with his German license and German IDP and has a health insurance from a German insurance company which also covers him while riding a motorbike. Now in Thailand he is involved in a serious accident and ends up in Hospital for a while, and in the end has to pay a bill of 2 million THB. The insurance company will 100% get one of their lawyers on this, and their lawyer will figure out the the German IDP is not valid in Thailand according to the laws (the same laws that i looked at, see all the quotes in the other topic). And then the health insurance will just refuse to pay because he drove without having a valid license.

So as it stands today, you obtained a Thai license fraudulently and illegally ? You presented a home license not valid in Thailand under any treaty, and an IDP not valid in Thailand, to obtain a Thai license.

OR you could accept that in practice your license and IDP was accepted as valid and legal, as 1,000s are every day.

The law as practised.

I appreciate doing some research as to what the law actually says but often its not a literal statement as to the practice.

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

So as it stands today, you obtained a Thai license fraudulently and illegally ? You presented a home license not valid in Thailand under any treaty, and an IDP not valid in Thailand, to obtain a Thai license.

OR you could accept that in practice your license and IDP was accepted as valid and legal, as 1,000s are every day.

The law as practised.

I appreciate doing some research as to what the law actually says but often its not a literal statement as to the practice.

Fraudulent? No, i didn't deceive them, and thus i didn't do anything illegal

But they probably issued the Thai license wrongfully, but this depends on how much discretion they have when issuing the license. (Maybe they have the discretion to accept the 1968 IDP as grounds to issue a Thai license? I don't know their internal rules. I only know that according to the law a 1968 IDP + German driving license is not a valid driving license in Thailand)

 

That the 1968 IDP is accepted 1000 times every day is right. But i don't worry about being fined 500 THB by police for not having a valid driving license and i'm also not worried about having any problem with the DLT. What i'm worried about are things like in the example before when an insurance refuses to pay.

 

 

 

[Peterw42]

99% of IDP problems occur because people consider an IDP as a stand alone license. People visit Thailand or live in Thailand and drive around with "only" an IDP in their pocket, fully believing its a license, they leave their actual license in their home country or back in the hotel/home.

They eventually get a ticket for not having a valid license, then go on to tell everyone that police didnt accept their IDP, (or as they call it, valid license) not fully understanding that the IDP accompanies your home license.

The same people go to the DLT with only an IDP and try to get a Thai license, the DLT says no because they are not presenting a license, they are presenting an IDP. These people then tell everyone that the DLT did not accept their IDP, which as a stand alone document is useless.

I have never heard of anyone, with a valid home license and an IDP, getting a ticket, having an insurance claim knocked back, or not get a Thai license.

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Fraudulent? No, i didn't deceive them, and thus i didn't do anything illegal

But they probably issued the Thai license wrongfully, but this depends on how much discretion they have when issuing the license. (Maybe they have the discretion to accept the 1968 IDP as grounds to issue a Thai license? I don't know their internal rules. I only know that according to the law a 1968 IDP + German driving license is not a valid driving license in Thailand)

 

That the 1968 IDP is accepted 1000 times every day is right. But i don't worry about being fined 500 THB by police for not having a valid driving license and i'm also not worried about having any problem with the DLT. What i'm worried about are things like in the example before when an insurance refuses to pay.

 

 

 

Hang on, if you presented a license/IDP that you know to be invalid, thats the very definition of fraud/deception.

 

You cant have it both ways, if the DLT has the discretion to accept 1968 IDP/ German license, that means its legal. And they must have that discretionary power because they accept them everyday.

 

I think the fact that the very people responsible for licenses in Thailand, the DLT, accept German license/IDP would be a pretty solid argument against a German insurance company saying your license is not valid.

 

[jackdd]

9 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

You cant have it both ways, if the DLT has the discretion to accept 1968 IDP/ German license, that means its legal.

Just because it's legal to use it as grounds to issue a Thai driving license doesn't mean it's valid as a driving license itself.

An example situation which is clearly regulated by law:

For somebody who has permanent residency status in Thailand the Thai law states that he can not use his home country license + IDP as a driving license. But this person can still use his home country license + IDP to obtain a Thai driving license.

[roath]

On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 11:25 AM, jackdd said:

KhunBENQ just said in the post above that the DLT in Pattaya doesn't accept an 1968 IDP, so how is it "universally accepted" in Thailand?

 

Because in the law there is no paragraph saying it is only valid for 90 days. But actually there is a section in the treaty which says it's valid for a year. Did you ever hear of anybody who had problems with it after 90 days? Imho the "90 days rule" is just something people copy from each other without ever looking at the laws.

 

It's not my "personal opinion", because everything i said is backed by an official source. But your "90 days rule" is a personal opinion, because nobody here did ever provide an official source for it.

 

And actually i just try to help people who could find themself in big trouble if they listen to wrongfully given advice like that a German IDP is valid in Thailand.

Let's say somebody travels to Thailand with his German license and German IDP and has a health insurance from a German insurance company which also covers him while riding a motorbike. Now in Thailand he is involved in a serious accident and ends up in Hospital for a while, and in the end has to pay a bill of 2 million THB. The insurance company will 100% get one of their lawyers on this, and their lawyer will figure out the the German IDP is not valid in Thailand according to the laws (the same laws that i looked at, see all the quotes in the other topic). And then the health insurance will just refuse to pay because he drove without having a valid license.

From posts I have seen online, I think the 90 day issue has arisen not with the police but with insurance requiring appropriate DLs for residents (terms in the insurance documentation which isn't the same as strict legal requirements) and regarding those in Thailand for longer than 90 days as residents and therefore requiring local licences as opposed to foreign licences.  I may be wrong on that, but that was seemed to be the real issue about not having a Thai DL as a long term resident.

[hgma]

Lao hoppers go to Udon, with Thai 'witness guarantee' pay 500 bath and go back to Nongkhai  WITH any drivers licence you want!

Mind you after flatly denied in NongKai By drivers license office and immigration (letter) as always ....its up to description of the officer in charge.

Most accidents happen by the way between Udon and NongKhai

Edited July 1, 2018 by hgma

[no deal]

On 5/31/2018 at 11:27 PM, Kzee said:

Very helpful information! One question, did you need to show some kind of residential documemt to get Certificate of Residence or just filling in the address?   I appreciate your input in advance.

 

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