Appeals court acquits rights activist Andy Hall, endorses research

[quandow]

15 hours ago, worgeordie said:

So does this mean common sense and justice  are  returning

to Thailand .

regards worgeordie

That would assume it was ever here in the first place.

[crazykopite]

????????????????

[bheard]

pessimist

Realist.

Sent from my E5823 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[The Deerhunter]

15 hours ago, worgeordie said:

So does this mean common sense and justice  are  returning

to Thailand .

regards worgeordie

NO!  It probably means an election is coming up.   But is still very good news.

Edited June 1, 2018 by The Deerhunter

[worgeordie]

Just now, The Deerhunter said:

NO!  It probably means an election is coming up.   But is still very good news.

I thought it might be because the Great Leader will be visiting 

the EU,I don't think he is that interested in what Thais think

about it,as it a Farang that is involved,but he needs to get on

the right side of the EU.

regards worgeordie

[tigerfeet]

14 hours ago, sweatalot said:

pessimist

but true

 

[Lupatria]

15 hours ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

The Court of Appeals has acquitted rights activist Andy Hall of defamation, overturning the guilty verdict issued by a lower court.

Lower court get's higher pay?

[soalbundy]

16 hours ago, worgeordie said:

So does this mean common sense and justice  are  returning

to Thailand .

regards worgeordie

maybe but what about the civil proceedings or is that automatically history now ?

[mikebell]

32 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

common sense and justice  are

not returning to Thailand anytime soon. This case is merely reflecting the prevalent interest in exploitation of foreign workers.  It will disappear as quickly as the investigation into Prawit's watches.

[Borzandy]

16 hours ago, worgeordie said:

So does this mean common sense and justice  are  returning

to Thailand .

regards worgeordie

No, it's meant only few persons are honest in Thailand.

[Laza 45]

16 hours ago, johng said:

I think there might be another appeal..

Yes.. they have already said they would appeal.. seeing them get knocked back again would be good..  as would a successful counter claim for costs and damages..

[snowgard]

16 hours ago, scorecard said:

- Does the reversal of the previous conviction mean that the 10 Million damages is also cancelled.

 

- Why does he have to pay 10,000Baht for the plaintiff's lawyers if he's found not guilty?

 

1. NO!!! 

2. Because the civil court gived this decision!!!

 

Yesterday the criminal court ruled out a new criminal decision. 
Maybe a appeals civil court will change the civil conviction. Maybe not!!!

This is up to the court.

[Chongalulu]

17 hours ago, sweatalot said:

pessimist

The definition of a pessimist?

An optimist with experience.

[Chongalulu]

32 minutes ago, snowgard said:

1. NO!!! 

2. Because the civil court gived this decision!!!

 

Yesterday the criminal court ruled out a new criminal decision. 
Maybe a appeals civil court will change the civil conviction. Maybe not!!!

This is up to the court.

In most developed countries a criminal conviction is the basis for the other party to sue the convicted as it effectively endorses their claim. Now his conviction has been overturned and with the appeals court actually recognising his accusations were valid there is no basis for the damages claim to stand. But....TIT.

[atyclb]

andy is a social justice warrior we can all admire

[Aj Mick]

18 hours ago, worgeordie said:

So does this mean common sense and justice  are  returning

to Thailand .

regards worgeordie

You would hope so, but.........

[snowgard]

7 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

In most developed countries a criminal conviction is the basis for the other party to sue the convicted as it effectively endorses their claim. Now his conviction has been overturned and with the appeals court actually recognising his accusations were valid there is no basis for the damages claim to stand. But....TIT.

This is definitive wrong!!! Just look the USA.

 

Just remember O.J. Simpson. In the criminal court him been not convicted.

But the civil court ruled him had to pay million dollars as compensation to his wifes family and kids.

???

Sorry, I forget the USA isn't a developed country!!!  

[Srikcir]

17 hours ago, manarak said:

nope.

AFAIK, courts of appeals rulings cannot be appealed, unless based on new evidence or constitutional issues with the ruling.

So in other words the courts of appeal rulings can be appealed, ie., to the Supreme (Dika) Court. I

The Office of the Attorney General can and has prosecuted defendants directly in the Supreme Court, bypassing both the lower court and court of appeals. This is done to expedite prosecution and (I suspect) to allow prosecution with minimal or credible evidence. Thai judges are allowed to conduct their own investigations and pursue evidence that they believe is relevant without transparency or accountability.

The Supreme Court is not the same as the Constitutional Court. As such the Supreme Court does not make rulings on constitutional issues.

[Chongalulu]

11 minutes ago, snowgard said:

This is definitive wrong!!! Just look the USA.

 

Just remember O.J. Simpson. In the criminal court him been not convicted.

But the civil court ruled him had to pay million dollars as compensation to his wifes family and kids.

???

Sorry, I forget the USA isn't a developed country!!!  

An interesting point,although somewhat different. OJ was acquitted in criminal court on the basis of insufficient evidence based on the 'beyond reasonable doubt' criteria. Civil cases rely on a lower threshold based on 'the balance of probabilities ' . In Hall's case the criminal conviction has not just been completely overturned (I.e. not on an evidential technicality)but the appeals court has ruled that his allegations against the Fruit Company were correct.

[snowgard]

1 minute ago, nchuckle said:

An interesting point,although somewhat different. OJ was acquitted in criminal court on the basis of insufficient evidence based on the 'beyond reasonable doubt' criteria. Civil cases rely on a lower threshold based on 'the balance of probabilities ' . In Hall's case the criminal conviction has not just been completely overturned (I.e. not on an evidential technicality)but the appeals court has ruled that his allegations against the Fruit Company were correct.

The point is that a criminal court and a civil court are different courts with different judges.
So the judges of both courts can rule completly different. And the fact is that Hall's interview/report damaged the business. The fact that the fruit company has caused this through exploitation of the workers themselves does not matter to some judges.

So let's wait what the appeal civil court say in some month/years.

[gandalf12]

19 hours ago, worgeordie said:

So does this mean common sense and justice  are  returning

to Thailand .

regards worgeordie

Very, very slowly maybe but slow is better than stopped

[Docno]

Now maybe someone higher up needs to investigate what's going in the Bangkok South Criminal Court since the Appeals Court overturned the conviction on more than just a technicality. 

[Lampang2]

Thailand judges owes their souls to the company store.

Corruption in blank daylight.

[timewilltell]

Well so just to be clear the Criminal Appeal Court cleared him but he is still saddled with the 10 million in the Civil case judgement.  And so on it will all go.

 

I am going through the same issues.  8 years now through the courts and still not finisjed.  Passport seized with 3 month visa renewals (30 day stamp then 60 days) and costs plus passport has to be requested form the court each time.  Your visa gets changed to a court visa once a case against you is accepted (and they are almost always accepted against foreigners, denying them income is a great way to have them go home to survive and the case ends) regardless of the state of the case or evidence really.

 

This is one easy way foreigners can be 'got rid of' by people who cheat or scam them and ensure they get away with it.

 

There are dozens of other tricks I wont bore you with'and there will be dozens of sympathisers on here poo pooing the effects.  If someone wants you to have problems the systems here sure make it easy.  You live a peaceful life here by luck and not by design.

[rumak]

20 hours ago, worgeordie said:

So does this mean common sense and justice  are  returning

to Thailand .

regards worgeordie

or maybe some money passed hands ?   nahhhhhh   that couldn't be

[Dap]

23 hours ago, worgeordie said:

So does this mean common sense and justice  are  returning

to Thailand .

regards worgeordie

Nah, It just looks more like they lost huge (international "face") and needed to

regain same the quickest way possible  

[Shaunduhpostman]

Many possible reasons that one can think of as to why this rather atypical verdict has come out...I'd sure like to know for sure tho...really interesting what's happened here. Go Andy!

[toolpush]

On 5/31/2018 at 4:28 PM, worgeordie said:

So does this mean common sense and justice  are  returning

to Thailand .

regards worgeordie

Returning????? When were they ever here?

[PaulusE]

Excellent work dear Finnish co-activists...

 

Finnwatch - Keep up the good work!

[holy cow cm]

sounds like big p or small p had something to do with this.