Israeli army kills Palestinian nurse in Gaza border protest - medics

[nobodysfriend]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

You are the one who brought up some nonsense simplistic comment about solving the conflict. It was pointed out that the OP deals with the Gaza Strip (so, not "wrong"), and accordingly, the Hamas (which pretty much controls the protests - so not "wrong", again).

 

Your nonsense comment was addressed and debunked. Guess inane deflections are the way to go when you can't handle that. There was nothing in my posts about "how poor Israel can protect itself from it's enemies" - that's just some made up nonsense you threw in.

Yes , I said the 2 state solution could be the first step to peace ...

That is as off topic as your always same rhetorics , so let's go back to the topic , because these discussions about how israel shoud react to the enormous threat by the palestinian stonethrowers leads to nothing , just a waste of time , because there is no will or even try to understand what each other says ... just the usual blabla ... boring

[metisdead]

A post in which the quoted content was quoted using the incorrect context has been removed:

 

16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.
 

[buick]

if the palestinians admit defeat and cut a deal with israel, the bloodshed will be over (hamas would be very unhappy with that !).  the deal won't include what palestine wants so they have to decide.  more bloodshed, or peace with less than they desire (won't have east jerusalem).  unfortunately, there are often innocent victims during times of war (this one has lasted a long, long time).

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

Yes , I said the 2 state solution could be the first step to peace ...

That is as off topic as your always same rhetorics , so let's go back to the topic , because these discussions about how israel shoud react to the enormous threat by the palestinian stonethrowers leads to nothing , just a waste of time , because there is no will or even try to understand what each other says ... just the usual blabla ... boring

 

What you actually said was ".... if Israel would agree to a palestinian state , that could be a first step to peace ... ". That's just another one-sided way of putting thing. And it goes ignore the fact that Hamas is not into that. The topic being about the Gaza Strip, and the Hamas, that's quite an elephant to ignore.

 

Nothing in my posts about "Palestinian stone throwers" - that's how you choose to paint it, plus the obvious spin.

 

There is no argument that the death toll is high. The point made is simple (I think) - if a Palestinian mob was to breach the wall, does someone have any illusions that the death toll would have been way higher?

 

 

[nobodysfriend]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

What you actually said was ".... if Israel would agree to a palestinian state , that could be a first step to peace ... ". That's just another one-sided way of putting thing. And it goes ignore the fact that Hamas is not into that. The topic being about the Gaza Strip, and the Hamas, that's quite an elephant to ignore.

 

Nothing in my posts about "Palestinian stone throwers" - that's how you choose to paint it, plus the obvious spin.

 

There is no argument that the death toll is high. The point made is simple (I think) - if a Palestinian mob was to breach the wall, does someone have any illusions that the death toll would have been way higher?

 

 

Of course not !

 

Israeli tanks and snipers would have killed them all ... we all know this ...!

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

That is the topic ... and the facts are that the nurse got  shot .

Your strategy seems to derail the discussion about this and to try to find an ' acceptable ' justification about what happened .

She is dead , and , come on , who believes that she got shot by her own people ?

I hope that the bullet that killed her will prove what happened .

 

More nonsense.

 

It is a fact that she got shot. Never said anything about her being shot by her own people, quite the opposite. That things happened quite the way presented in the OP can be questioned, as it is based on anonymous witness. I don't know what you imagine the "bullet that killed her" will prove.

 

Acceptable? Not in a moral sense, no. Acceptable as in such things happen in these clashes? Yes, a fact of life.

[nobodysfriend]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

More nonsense.

 

It is a fact that she got shot. Never said anything about her being shot by her own people, quite the opposite. That things happened quite the way presented in the OP can be questioned, as it is based on anonymous witness. I don't know what you imagine the "bullet that killed her" will prove.

 

Acceptable? Not in a moral sense, no. Acceptable as in such things happen in these clashes? Yes, a fact of life.

Read the threat ...if it was not you who said that she got shot by her own people , it was somebody else .. it's not only about you here ...

[Morch]

Just now, nobodysfriend said:

Of course not !

 

Israeli tanks and snipers would have killed them all ... we all know this ...!

 

Some progress. If you accept this point, then deterring the protesters from breaching the fence, and thus avoiding such a (worse) scenario would make sense. This isn't to condone Israel's response - I don't think it was even-handed or "proportionate" (which is a bogus term anyway), just saying that the other options were possibly worse.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, nobodysfriend said:

If it's a bullet commonly used by Israelian snipers , it would prove a lot ...

 

do I really have to explain everything ...?

 

It would prove that she was shot by the IDF (which I think is obvious), but wouldn't prove the circumstances presented in the OP.

[Elfin]

46 minutes ago, buick said:

won't have east jerusalem)

Why do you think this? What is your vision for East Jerusalem?

This "war' that has been going on for a long, long time, is very disproportional on all levels.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Elfin

[nobodysfriend]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Some progress. If you accept this point, then deterring the protesters from breaching the fence, and thus avoiding such a (worse) scenario would make sense. This isn't to condone Israel's response - I don't think it was even-handed or "proportionate" (which is a bogus term anyway), just saying that the other options were possibly worse.

 

ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE POOR NURSE WANTED TO BREACH THE FENCE ?

She was a threat to Israels security , may be ?

[nobodysfriend]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

It would prove that she was shot by the IDF (which I think is obvious), but wouldn't prove the circumstances presented in the OP.

What circumstances ? She was running with her hands raised to help an injured person - that are the circumstances .

[thaiguzzi]

9 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Razan Al-Najar's death brought to 119 the number of Palestinians killed in weekly demonstrations launched on March 30 in the Gaza Strip,

 

9 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Gazan medical officials said at least 100 Palestinians were wounded by army gunfire during Friday's mass demonstrations.

 

9 hours ago, rooster59 said:

There have been no Israeli casualties during the border confrontations,

 

And there you have it folks.

Completely fair and normal warfare - sticks and stones vs tanks, snipers and anything else a modern army can muster.

Kids, women and old men against trained soldiers. People just want their land back. Some of it. A bit of it.

Meanwhile, Europe and the USA just look the other way.

hey, they are only Arabs...

hey, can't say anything bad about the Jews...…..

Pathetic.

[Morch]

16 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

What circumstances ? She was running with her hands raised to help an injured person - that are the circumstances .

 

Once more - how do you know she was "running with her hands raised to help an injured person"? This is based on an anonymous witness. That's not a fact.

[Morch]

Just now, car720 said:

I wonder if they will ever tell us, of the total number of casualties, how many were shot in the back.  Another action of a coward.

 

The casualty figures (courtesy of the Hamas run Ministry of Health in Gaza) are advertised. Details included. Whether you take them as gospel is another matter. Guess its easier to post conspiracy one-liners then to actually be informed.

[Morch]

15 minutes ago, car720 said:

So this nurse, in a snipers crosshairs, with her hands in the air and a white uniform was carrying grenages and incendiary devices????

Come on.  Whoever took the shot knew they were taking the shot.  Gutless mongrels.

 

The details you present aren't verified. And yes, the same goes for nonsense implications she was carrying grenades and such. I could imagine, though, someone hit standing near or behind a person targeted.

[buick]

20 minutes ago, Elfin said:

Why do you think this? What is your vision for East Jerusalem?

This "war' that has been going on for  long, long time, is very disproportional on all levels.

i envision it staying as is.  why would israel make any changes ? they don't really have anything to gain by doing so.  they'd still have to live with chants of 'death to israel', etc... so it isn't as if they can just relax and enjoy after making a deal. 

[Morch]

13 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

 

 

 

And there you have it folks.

Completely fair and normal warfare - sticks and stones vs tanks, snipers and anything else a modern army can muster.

Kids, women and old men against trained soldiers. People just want their land back. Some of it. A bit of it.

Meanwhile, Europe and the USA just look the other way.

hey, they are only Arabs...

hey, can't say anything bad about the Jews...…..

Pathetic.

 

The notion that warfare is supposed to be fair is a fine one, but war isn't actually a schoolyard or a boxing ring.

 

As for "sticks and stones", sure thing - if you want to ignore that there were firearms, IED's, hand grenades and incendiary devices used by the Palestinians as well. Yes, the IDF is much better equipped, kindly read the first line again.

 

And "kids, women and old men" - About half of those killed were Hamas/Islamic Jihad operatives. Even if your "point" had something to go on, perhaps wide to dwell on the qualities of a leadership sending forth  "kids, women and old men" in harms' way.

 

Just want some of their land back says poster. Well, Hamas leadership speeches before and during the protests, went a wee bit further than that. As in take it all. While egging their people on. Violence didn't get the Palestinian anywhere in these last 70 years. What's the point of doing more of the same? Had they chosen compromise and negotiations, they'd be in a better state right now.

 

As for international reactions - maybe not all are quite as blinkered an uninformed.

[nobodysfriend]

16 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Once more - how do you know she was "running with her hands raised to help an injured person"? This is based on an anonymous witness. That's not a fact.

A witness is a witness , even anonymus ... i guess this has been seen by more than one person ...

It really is time to send an international UN " peace force " over there , just as Erdogan said . He's right even I do not like him ...

Time that it is properly documented what happens really over there !

[nobodysfriend]

14 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The details you present aren't verified. And yes, the same goes for nonsense implications she was carrying grenades and such. I could imagine, though, someone hit standing near or behind a person targeted.

Pure supposition ...

[nobodysfriend]

7 minutes ago, Morch said:

Violence didn't get the Palestinian anywhere in these last 70 years. What's the point of doing more of the same? Had they chosen compromise and negotiations, they'd be in a better state right now.

It is difficult to negotiate with someone who wants to kill you ...that goes for both sides .

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

A witness is a witness , even anonymus ... i guess this has been seen by more than one person ...

It really is time to send an international UN " peace force " over there , just as Erdogan said . He's right even I do not like him ...

Time that it is properly documented what happens really over there !

 

Err no. That doesn't actually carry much weight. You have no idea who the person is, if he has any relevant affiliations, or if he even saw what he  claims. If your "a witness is a witness" nonsense would apply, there wouldn't be any point to proving anything anyway.

 

And while you may advocate an "international UN peace force" you may wish to actually have a clue on what that means. Not expecting your "analysis" or "reasoning" to go beyond simplistic statements - so no point in asking who will take part, and how this will work. Details aren't important for some.

 

The last line is amusing, considering how you started your post. But hey, consistency is over-rated by some.

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

Pure supposition ...

 

Thanks. Do you get the point about things not being factual yet? As in, anyone can come up with a version. It's not like that the version appearing in the OP is verified - but that seems to be ok with you.

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

It is difficult to negotiate with someone who wants to kill you ...that goes for both sides .

 

Yeah, so makes more sense to keep up the violence, what?

If you are the obviously weaker side, and you're failing to get what you want through violence - perhaps a better choice would be to explore other options, rather than doing the same old.

[buick]

19 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

It really is time to send an international UN " peace force " over there , just as Erdogan said . He's right even I do not like him ...

Time that it is properly documented what happens really over there !

it would be nice to get unbiased reporting on what is happening along with extra security, etc...  but what countries could provide this under a UN mandate ?  most are already biased one way or the other so could still have a problem on the 'truth/who started what/when'.  and i doubt many countries will sign up to send their troops in.  it could potentially be a permanent assignment !!!

[nobodysfriend]

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Yeah, so makes more sense to keep up the violence, what?

If you are the obviously weaker side, and you're failing to get what you want through violence - perhaps a better choice would be to explore other options, rather than doing the same old.

What options would that be ? Negotiate with someone who wants to see you dead ?

[nobodysfriend]

2 minutes ago, buick said:

it would be nice to get unbiased reporting on what is happening along with extra security, etc...  but what countries could provide this under a UN mandate ?  most are already biased one way or the other so could still have a problem on the 'truth/who started what/when'.  and i doubt many countries will sign up to send their troops in.  it could potentially be a permanent assignment !!!

I am sure that it will be possible to establish a peace force that is not biased and objective documentation about what really happens over there is badly needed .

[buick]

2 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

What options would that be ? Negotiate with someone who wants to see you dead ?

i think that is what the israeli's are saying about the palestinians. 

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

You really are a simple mind ... she is dead , shot . that's a fact . may be she did not raise her hands , may be she was not running .. she just was a young woman not a threat to the Israelis who brutally murdered her .

That is fact . Alll you suppositions are completly worthless , you just try to find excuses , boring ...

An international peace force is a very good idea , I know what that means ,  but you seem to be too arrogant ( the Israeli style ) to understand ... So , tell me about your 'reasoning ' I am curious to know ...

Where I come from we have a word for people like you , but I will not be allowed to post that here ...

Anyway , my dear , the facts talk a very clear language , even if you not seem to be able to understand ...

 

I haven't argued that she wasn't dead. Or that she wasn't shot by the IDF.

That doesn't mean I have to embrace either the account presented in the OP or the narrative you push.

 

You may thing that an "international peace force" is a "very good idea" - yet no explanation as to why. Same goes when it comes to the "how" of it.

 

Not interested in your petty insults.

 

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

What options would that be ? Negotiate with someone who wants to see you dead ?

 

That is how you present things. Doesn't have a whole lot to do with reality. If one doesn't negotiate with enemies, who then? And if you wish to imply negotiations are impossible - what's the answer then? More futile, pointless violence?