Germany declines to hand fugitive monk over to Thai police

[nahkit]

1 minute ago, thedivezone said:

 

 

Laos and Qatar are in Europe now ?

You can claim asylum anywhere, it's not exclusively European.

[JAG]

21 minutes ago, nahkit said:

So they're not allowed to ask for him back then?

Of course they can ask for him back. Given the circumstances I have outlined no one should be surprised if they are refused. Turning up mob handed to demand he is handed over, within 3 days, but forgetting (or not bothering) to bring a lawyer, well that is just beyond silly, it's pathetic.

[ratcatcher]

1 hour ago, lensta said:

He kinda looks like one of those little cement garden gnomes that people used to have in their garden.

                           

[LomSak27]

2 hours ago, candide said:

Indeed. The fact that he is related to the UFO temple raises suspicions. I wonder wether the other 6 monks are also related to it.

Maybe this is what they have to do if they take that ….. Buddha Issara monk who they arrested last week.  If we arrest a yellow monk we have to arrest 8 red monks

Its so ridiculous, it makes sense

Edited June 6, 2018 by LomSak27

[merijn]

16 minutes ago, nahkit said:

You can claim asylum anywhere, it's not exclusively European.

It was about the claim to ask for asylum in another EU country in case Germany refused.

In that case the first country of entry (EU country) counts.

[KiwiKiwi]

6 minutes ago, JAG said:

Of course they can ask for him back. Given the circumstances I have outlined no one should be surprised if they are refused. Turning up mob handed to demand he is handed over, within 3 days, but forgetting (or not bothering) to bring a lawyer, well that is just beyond silly, it's pathetic.

 

Perhaps the word you are looking for is 'incompetent'. Pathetic is OK, but 'pathetic' implies unusual, whereas, for this lot, pathetic is the new normal.

[JAG]

14 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

 

Perhaps the word you are looking for is 'incompetent'. Pathetic is OK, but 'pathetic' implies unusual, whereas, for this lot, pathetic is the new normal.

Well maybe, although there again it could be argued that incompetent has been the norm for a long time!

[Psimbo]

Normal people- arrange extradition THEN fly over to collect someone.

 

Police generals- 'I am here now. Do you know who I am. Give him to me now'. 

 

Sorry Somchai- it doesn't work like that in the real world!

[KiwiKiwi]

1 minute ago, JAG said:

Well maybe, although there again it could be argued that incompetent has been the norm for a long time!

 

Which would make it pathetic. Yes, I see your point.

 

On a serious note though, I am (almost daily) astonished at the prevalence of stupidity and incompetence in this country.  Lawyers. Doctors, Nurses, Mechanics, Painters, Banks, Shops, Petrol stations, Restaurants, the list really does seem to cover all aspects of daily life, and is never seems to occur to these practitioners of incompetence that much of it is unnecessary and could be prevented with a modicum of thought before action. Unknown concept, yes, I know.

 

The pinnacle for me was when I lost it in a 7/11 yesterday. Modest purchase, to which the shop assistant looked down her nose at the lack of gold bling on my wrists and neck and said simply '78 baht'. I responded '78 baht, please - manners don't cost anything' it was in my best and most perfect Thai, and it got the predictable and usual response of 'huh?'.

 

I've seen this at filling stations as well. The problem is, they see a foreigner, expect to hear English and expect to have to respond in the normal Thai way when they don't understand something - 'no have'. When what they do hear is perfectly acceptable Thai, they get all confused because it isn't what they expected, it breaks their pattern and their brains essentially stop functioning at that point.

 

Living in Thailand is character-building. Everyone should do it for at least a year so they learn how to value their home countries more..

 

 

[Artisi]

while they are so close to the UK, they should take a quick trip to London and demand that Thaksin, YL and the Red Bull be handed over so they can be arrested and shipped back to Thailand  - shouldn't be any problem to the best police force  farce in the world to get what they want from the Bill. They are buddies of course - with a strong bond forged over the Kho Tao debacle  - you can look, no touching, and definitely no questions - ok?

[puck2]

Although it's really amazing that the Thai police (squad of 13 – in words thirteen!) tried to bring this criminal monk home without contacting the German offices) nearly nobody is talking here about the chances of getting asylum in Germany.

 

To be recognized as a (refugee or) asylum seeker you have to fulfill a lot of conditions.

• NOT coming from a so called „safe country of origin“. Thailand belongs to the safe countries, in spite of the moderate junta. Therefore no reason for asylum.

• Only extremely sick people have a chance for staying in Germany. I don't know if the German office will recognize the massive embezzlement of monastery funds as severe sickness. 5555

• Prosecution because of religion (and other elementary rights/ reasons). It will be hard for the former monk to improve this.

• To be young in order to get a vocational training. He is a little bit too old.

• Fleeing from Syria.

• Not being a criminal.... ehem, ehem

 

This former monk only made one mistake. He should have done this 2 years before, entering Germany in the Bremen area. The Bremen BAMF office is under (criminal) investigation for unlawfully recognizing the status of a refugee/asylee in too many cases.

 

[Artisi]

42 minutes ago, JAG said:

Of course they can ask for him back. Given the circumstances I have outlined no one should be surprised if they are refused. Turning up mob handed to demand he is handed over, within 3 days, but forgetting (or not bothering) to bring a lawyer, well that is just beyond silly, it's pathetic.

Now that would be a German speaking lawyer, naturally with a good background in German law and the necessary skills to handle and apply the law?

[fstarbkk]

Seems that the German authorities are not responding to the old "do you know who I am" routine, as planned. Must have been a shock to these officials, who are accustomed to people dropping to their knees at the mere sight of all the shiny decorations on their uniforms.

[JAG]

6 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Now that would be a German speaking lawyer, naturally with a good background in German law and the necessary skills to handle and apply the law?

Well I would rather have thought a Thai lawyer, who could liaise with his German counterparts and explain legal issues to assorted senior rozzers. German language is admittedly unlikely, English would probably suffice as a "lingua Franca"

[Jonah Tenner]

3 hours ago, Lupatria said:

Urgent mission 555! Somebody should have done the homework before sending 13 useless officials on a vacation. Next time, Mr. Watchtower should consider consulting the Mossad to learn how to 'transfer' people from another country...

Vietnam too has a thing or two they could tell Thailand about getting wanted people from Germany...

http://www.dw.com/en/vietnamese-businessman-kidnapped-in-berlin-gets-life-in-prison-in-hanoi/a-42248440

[Baerboxer]

7 hours ago, JAG said:

It's very simple: a gang of high ranking policemen (including the national police chief) turn up demanding to interrogate him, insisting that he is handed over within three days. They are from a junta government, with a record of suspicious death in custody of people who were close to the establishment and fell foul of it. That should be enough, no matter what he is accused of/has done.

 

Do give over. Suspicious deaths, disappearances and extra judicial killings are not something the current Junta started. Sadly always been around and a problem throughout the developing world and even some so called developed countries.

 

How many cases since 2014 can you name?

 

But the BiB have to learn other police forces, judicial systems and civil service bureaucracies do actually work to laid down procedures and won't be bossed around by a mob of Thai police turning up and demanding this, that and the other.

 

Look at the nonsense BS spouted about efforts to get Yingluck back whilst the Red Bull boy and UFO monk seem to have quietly slipped off the radar. 

 

Complete fiascoes or contrived to meet someone's agenda? 

 

 

[hansnl]

8 hours ago, tropo said:

The Thai mob of 13 (sorry - police team) that travelled to Frankfurt are very pushy. Linch mob comes to mind. Did they really need to waste return tickets to Frankfurt for 13 people? Perhaps they expected to scare the German authorities into compliance.

 

It's hard for them to grasp that in other countries the Democratic processes don't work as rapidly as they would like. They didn't ask. They just expected a 3-day decision in their favour and even reserved a seat for the Monk. This is going to be an interesting thread...

There are rules in process of extradition.

Going to collect a suspect, because that is what he is, by a whole group of authorities is not how it is done.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, JAG said:

Of course they can ask for him back. Given the circumstances I have outlined no one should be surprised if they are refused. Turning up mob handed to demand he is handed over, within 3 days, but forgetting (or not bothering) to bring a lawyer, well that is just beyond silly, it's pathetic.

 

They have to follow the provisions and procedures of their extradition treaty with Germany. Period.

 

The fact the National Police Chief can simply fly off with 12 colleagues seemingly without any regard to the actual process and what's required speaks volumes for the whole approach here to everything - we can do as we like. 

 

Well now they're finding out that they can't. And bear in mind Germany actually has close relationships with Thailand in a number of on-going private, public and ngo spheres. 

[tropo]

3 minutes ago, hansnl said:

There are rules in process of extradition.

Going to collect a suspect, because that is what he is, by a whole group of authorities is not how it is done.

 

 

Yeah, and they wasted about 2 million baht (business class) on airfares and who knows how much on accommodation, food and entertainment. 

[JAG]

7 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Do give over. Suspicious deaths, disappearances and extra judicial killings are not something the current Junta started. Sadly always been around and a problem throughout the developing world and even some so called developed countries.

 

How many cases since 2014 can you name?

 

Well two spring to mind - the fortune teller fellow and the chap who "hung himself with his socks".

I agree that it is not a phenomenon unique to Thailand, or it's current government. However it does exist.

5 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

They have to follow the provisions and procedures of their extradition treaty with Germany. Period

I seem to remember reading somewhere (here maybe) that Thailand doesn't have an extradition treaty with Germany. I'm sure that a properly presented case would succeed. I don't think the National Police Chief rocking up with his mates (but no lawyer) constitutes a case!

[johng]

1 minute ago, JAG said:

Well two spring to mind - the fortune teller fellow and the chap who "hung himself with his socks".

There was also a policeman  who fell from a balcony.

[Baerboxer]

3 minutes ago, JAG said:

Well two spring to mind - the fortune teller fellow and the chap who "hung himself with his socks".

I agree that it is not a phenomenon unique to Thailand, or it's current government. However it does exist.

I seem to remember reading somewhere (here maybe) that Thailand doesn't have an extradition treaty with Germany. I'm sure that a properly presented case would succeed. I don't think the National Police Chief rocking up with his mates (but no lawyer) constitutes a case!

"Currently the following countries entered into extradition treaties withThailand: Australia, Bangladesh, Belgium, Cambodia, Canada, China, Fiji, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Philippines, South Korea, United Kingdom, and United States."

 

They're you go. Not too many treaties.

 

With no treaty they need to go through diplomatic channels. A group of coppers turning up mob handed and expecting to do as they like isn't the way. Wonder if they'll be any questions about expenses, wasted cost, etc etc - no course not! Just like no lessons will be learnt and it will all be blamed on uncooperative Germans.

 

If they follow the proper procedures, even with a well constituted case, and even if the German courts agree, through the appeals etc, then the monk can still apply to the EUCHR. And they aren't likely to be interested in sending someone back to a Junta whose first attempts were to send 13 coppers over and demand to question him!

 

You really couldn't make this up.

[tropo]

46 minutes ago, Psimbo said:

Normal people- arrange extradition THEN fly over to collect someone.

 

Police generals- 'I am here now. Do you know who I am. Give him to me now'. 

 

Sorry Somchai- it doesn't work like that in the real world!

Putting it that way, it comes across as nothing more than an excuse to send 12 of his mates on a fabulous, all expenses paid trip to Germany. Assuming modest 5 Star accommodation for 4 nights, plus food, shopping etc, they've spent about 3 million baht. How much did these 7 senior monks supposedly embezzle?

[Netease]

5 hours ago, Borzandy said:

Hey Mr Pravit, we have plenty of time, do you have a watch? How long is 3 days?

He only has enough watches to put side by side to count to 30 days he will need a lot more

[Jonmarleesco]

'“The German authorities wanted time to examine the case. Normally that takes about two months. Thai authorities have asked them to complete it within three days,” Prawit said.'

 

And no doubt the Germans will be eager to do so. Just for LoS. 

 

'... Prawit said ... preparations were being made “long ago”.' 

 

Funny how Prawit always seems to be aware of something long in the making, long after waking.

 

'The police chief and his team are scheduled to arrive back in Bangkok from Frankfurt this morning ...'

 

Must have been some jollies expected, for the good monk to merit the personal attention of the chief of police. 
 

[NanLaew]

31 minutes ago, Jonah Tenner said:

Vietnam too has a thing or two they could tell Thailand about getting wanted people from Germany...

http://www.dw.com/en/vietnamese-businessman-kidnapped-in-berlin-gets-life-in-prison-in-hanoi/a-42248440

Which is one reason why the German authorities will be very circumspect on releasing this monk to Thai police. The Vietnamese "kidnapping" case caused a bit of a diplomatic ruckus. The Thai's better have something pretty convincing but unlikely they will sway the German's stated 2-month case review for asylum claimants. They can save the air fares and wait at Suvarnabhumi after the Germans deport this non-monk.

[Briggsy]

Prawit speaking on behalf of foreign governments yet again. I place no credence on his words.

 

A statement from a German government source or reliable German newspaper would be worth a thousand times Prawit's self-serving fairy tales.

[Artisi]

1 hour ago, JAG said:

Well I would rather have thought a Thai lawyer, who could liaise with his German counterparts and explain legal issues to assorted senior rozzers. German language is admittedly unlikely, English would probably suffice as a "lingua Franca"

I was being facetious ?

[tropo]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Do give over. Suspicious deaths, disappearances and extra judicial killings are not something the current Junta started. Sadly always been around and a problem throughout the developing world and even some so called developed countries.

 

How many cases since 2014 can you name?

 

2

Would you expect "suspicious deaths, disappearances and extrajudicial killings" to be reported in the daily news?

[Sheryl]

The headline is misleading. Germany has nto declined the extradition request. they have declined the request to hand over the suspect without first going through normal legal processes, given that he has requested asylum. A determination on extradition has not yet been made and will take some time.