Internet Nomad

[suave]

I have a question.  I am living here legally and work on the internet.  I have a Thai bank account and was wondering if there is any problem getting a foreign company to make deposits directly to my account?  Would it raise any flags or problems for me?  Would anyone want to know why I was getting money or want me to pay anything for receiving it?  Thanks.

[wobalt]

No issues in my case


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[Timwin]

Just make sure the name in the transfer matches exactly what is in the bank book, like "Mr John Adam Smith". If the name is something like your company or anything else (other than at least your first name and surname), it will be rejected. They are much stricter than in EU for example, where you can put "donald duck" or "I am not a morning person" and it still gets transferred.

 

I have said at the immigration at Suvarnabhumi that I work online, digital nomad. That was ok for them and it is the strictest entry point of all. Strictly speaking they could make it illegal but they are not enforcing it so. After all, it is a win for Thailand with money coming in without taking any Thai jobs. If you work for a Thai company than you better have a work permit (with work location address specified).

[FritsSikkink]

16 minutes ago, Timwin said:

Just make sure the name in the transfer matches exactly what is in the bank book, like "Mr John Adam Smith". If the name is something like your company or anything else (other than at least your first name and surname), it will be rejected. They are much stricter than in EU for example, where you can put "donald duck" or "I am not a morning person" and it still gets transferred.

 

I have said at the immigration at Suvarnabhumi that I work online, digital nomad. That was ok for them and it is the strictest entry point of all. Strictly speaking they could make it illegal but they are not enforcing it so. After all, it is a win for Thailand with money coming in without taking any Thai jobs. If you work for a Thai company than you better have a work permit (with work location address specified).

It would be a win for Thailand if you paid any tax.

[wobalt]

It would be a win for Thailand if you paid any tax.

Thailand is more interested in my knowledge and expertise in certain areas , not so much in my tax. Therefore I was invited to come here.


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[Timwin]

4 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

It would be a win for Thailand if you paid any tax.

Some digital nomads do that, some don't. How many retirees on retirement visas pay taxes to Thailand? Probably not very many.

Even if one does not pay taxes he will contribute 5-15 times more than your average Thai worker with average 15 000 Baht monthly salary. Many earn less than 10000, specially in the country side. I have paid quite a lot to girlfriend's family to grow rice and buy some farming equipment and that is pretty tangible benefit for them in itself alone.

[jackdd]

If you bring income to Thailand in the year when it's earned you have to pay tax for it.

I doubt currently somebody checks it, but what if they do it in 5 years going back 10 years?

So better retrieve the money in another country and transfer savings from last year to Thailand

Edited June 11, 2018 by jackdd

[impulse]

1 hour ago, Timwin said:

I have said at the immigration at Suvarnabhumi that I work online, digital nomad. That was ok for them and it is the strictest entry point of all. Strictly speaking they could make it illegal but they are not enforcing it so. After all, it is a win for Thailand with money coming in without taking any Thai jobs. If you work for a Thai company than you better have a work permit (with work location address specified).

 

I'm glad it's working out for you on a practical level.  Really, I am. 

 

But keep in mind you're talking about 3 different agencies- Immigration, Labor and Taxation.  And even within Immigration, one guy's blessing doesn't mean it's not going to trip you up when you get a different guy next time, or the wind shifts.  And, of course, a blessing from Immigration doesn't mean the Labor or Tax Departments aren't going to start enforcing their part.

 

I'm still remembering a bunch of guys I met a few years back who thought they had Thai life by the short and curlies, until some of the rules they'd been dancing around started being enforced.  Monthly visa runs, ED visa's for non-students, 10 year overstays cleared up with $600.  All of them well accepted for years or decades, allowing their beneficiaries to get complacent instead of getting legal.

 

Do it the way you want.  Again, I hope it works for you as long as you want it to.  But if you like it in Thailand, I'd suggest you prepare for the day they start enforcing those rules you're skirting.  I know a lot of guys back home that wish they'd spent the money to get legal instead of buying a car, a condo and a scooter, only to leave them behind.  And it's especially sad when they left their families because they hadn't saved enough for proof of funds.

 

Edited June 11, 2018 by impulse

[impulse]

3 minutes ago, jackdd said:

If you bring income to Thailand in the year when it's earned you have to pay tax for it.

I doubt currently somebody checks it, but what if they do it in 5 years going back 10 years?

So better retrieve the money in another country and transfer savings from last year to Thailand

 

On top of that, I wonder how long they're going to allow the charade that I made $75,000 this year, but that money I brought in to pay my rent was money I made last year, so it's not taxable.  It's one thing if you're retired and not making anything.  But if you're making money this year, and spending money this year...

 

I've read enough posts on the subject to believe that it's working today.  But it sure doesn't smell right.

 

[Timwin]

4 minutes ago, impulse said:

Do it the way you want.  Again, I hope it works for you as long as you want it to.  But if you like it in Thailand, I'd suggest you prepare for the day they start enforcing those rules you're skirting.

 

Yes, I know things could change easily. The tax law interpretation is another thing. If the income is considered as savings from abroad from last year or earlier, it is not taxed. One friend of mine got that kind of paper from very high end law firm that certainly know the Thai law inside out.

[impulse]

Just now, Timwin said:

Yes, I know things could change easily. The tax law interpretation is another thing. If the income is considered as savings from abroad from last year or earlier, it is not taxed. One friend of mine got that kind of paper from very high end law firm that certainly know the Thai law inside out.

 

I'm gobsmacked by that rule.  Or rather, the current interpretation of that rule.  Basically, as long as someone can show enough in the bank last year to cover this year's incoming money, they NEVER have to pay taxes on the money they make in ANY year.  Forever.   That just doesn't pass the sniff test. 

 

And, a good law firm will help their clients optimize their wealth under today's enforcement regime.  That doesn't mean it's legal,  Just that there won't be negative consequences exceeding the benefits.  And it certainly doesn't mean the interpretation won't change tomorrow.  I know a lot of guys praying it won't be retroactive (with penalties because they should have known better) if the Tax Department decides they've been doing it wrong all along.

 

[Timwin]

20 minutes ago, impulse said:

And, a good law firm will help their clients optimize their wealth under today's enforcement regime.  That doesn't mean it's legal,  Just that there won't be negative consequences exceeding the benefits.  And it certainly doesn't mean the interpretation won't change tomorrow.  I know a lot of guys praying it won't be retroactive (with penalties because they should have known better) if the Tax Department decides they've been doing it wrong all along.

 

Of course it is legal if tax office and lawyers says so. They are in the business of knowing the frigging law. Nothing unclear about it. Every first year law student would say the same that it always comes down to interpretation. What is income, how it is defined, what is an investment, depreciation rate for this and that, what can be subtracted from income and so it goes...

 

Big corporations do this all the time with tax officials, constant discussion about how this or that money from this or that is going to be taxed and in which country. Sometimes it is pretty much adversary type of negotiation.

 

If countries like Italy or Spain enforced every ancient law still in force in the books the countries would ground to halt within a week. US even more of a mess because previous similar cases are treated as precedents, not a useful guide not strictly bounding like in most of EU. Add to that very excessive sentences that other countries in many cases refuse to enforce.

 

The interpretation of laws is vital for a functioning justice and tax system. You yourself did some out of hat interpretations by that comment!

Edited June 11, 2018 by Timwin
typo

[Fairynuff]

15 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

It would be a win for Thailand if you paid any tax.

So the fact the money will spent in Thailand, purchases will have VAT paid on them, jobs will be kept......that’s not a win for Thailand? Think before you criticise.

[suave]

Thanks for all the replies.  I think we can all agree that Thailand could make good use of any tax they collected from something like this, but until they make it a real thing and provide a platform it will not happen.  I for one would readily register myself and pay tax, even without a specific visa for it, for the work I do on the comp just to stay legal and to pay my fair share as I am already here legally.  By paying taxes it might also allow a person to access things like medical and or pensions.

[osandpo]

The Thai Revenue Dept could only realistically  become aware of your income if:

1. The amounts going into the account here trigger any kind of bank reporting to the anti-money laundering office - typically that means larger amounts (roughly 250k+) deposited in cash, or unusual transactions (for example a big payment in and then lots of small withdrawals in the next 2-3 days taking out almost all the money)

2. You receive legitimate payments from a Thai company that then gets a tax audit

3. You receive payments from someone being investigated by the police, AMLO or another government Dept 

4. Someone reports you out of malice

 

As others have said, Thai Revenue is only really interested in income coming from Thai sources so if your clients are offshore the risk is low - provided payments come in by bank transfer from reputable sources 

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, Fairynuff said:

So the fact the money will spent in Thailand, purchases will have VAT paid on them, jobs will be kept......that’s not a win for Thailand? Think before you criticise.

Pathetic excuse for not paying the taxes you are due, try that with the tax office in your home country.

[Billthekiwi]

Hi,

 

I'm inclined to think that if you are making money while living in Thailand then you should offer to pay tax on your earnings.

 

It seems fair.

 

People getting a pension paid tax already on that money so I don't count that as actively earning.

[arithai12]

1 hour ago, Fairynuff said:

So the fact the money will spent in Thailand, purchases will have VAT paid on them, jobs will be kept......that’s not a win for Thailand? Think before you criticise.

By your logic, why should anyone pay taxes at all?

btw, taxation is Thailand is ridiculously low. I do voluntarily declare and pay tax on my foreign transfers even if according to the law I should be exempt (same year rule).

[LivinLOS]

16 hours ago, impulse said:

 

On top of that, I wonder how long they're going to allow the charade that I made $75,000 this year, but that money I brought in to pay my rent was money I made last year, so it's not taxable.  It's one thing if you're retired and not making anything.  But if you're making money this year, and spending money this year...

 

I've read enough posts on the subject to believe that it's working today.  But it sure doesn't smell right.

 

But that is the law (designed to allow high net worth Thais who have overseas earnings to offshore thier wealth for 12 months and be tax free). In my case I just ensure I always have more than 2 accounts.. year 1 I deposit anything into one account and draw from the 2nd.. Year 2 I draw from the other etc. 

 

That way theres a clear paper trail that any money being remitted to Thailand is seasoned over 12 months and is then savings not income. 

Edited June 12, 2018 by LivinLOS

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, suave said:

Thanks for all the replies.  I think we can all agree that Thailand could make good use of any tax they collected from something like this, but until they make it a real thing and provide a platform it will not happen.  I for one would readily register myself and pay tax, even without a specific visa for it, for the work I do on the comp just to stay legal and to pay my fair share as I am already here legally.  By paying taxes it might also allow a person to access things like medical and or pensions.

But you can.. Very easily.. 

 

Just register, get a tax payer number, declare your overseas earnings if you so desire.. 

 

However anyone who is working here online, is deluding themselves if they attempt to claim work is not work and they have some kind of offshore work permit exemption. Thai law is crystal clear, Thai enforcement however isnt. 

[LivinLOS]

42 minutes ago, Billthekiwi said:

People getting a pension paid tax already on that money so I don't count that as actively earning.

Actually Thai tax code specifically says pensions are taxable income. 

 

Lets also be honest, many pensions are specifically set up to either not pay tax at time of contribution, pay reduced rates of tax, or to defer taxation until claimed when incomes are lower. So dependant on the pension scheme and country, no taxes are frequently not already paid on pensions. 

[suave]

4 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Actually Thai tax code specifically says pensions are taxable income. 

 

Lets also be honest, many pensions are specifically set up to either not pay tax at time of contribution, pay reduced rates of tax, or to defer taxation until claimed when incomes are lower. So dependant on the pension scheme and country, no taxes are frequently not already paid on pensions. 

Many countries have tax agreements on pensions, Thailand is one of them with my country, so no tax owed.

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Actually Thai tax code specifically says pensions are taxable income. 

Where?

I have not been able to find it

[arithai12]

9 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

But that is the law (designed to allow high net worth Thais who have overseas earnings to offshore thier wealth for 12 months and be tax free). In my case I just ensure I always have more than 2 accounts.. year 1 I deposit anything into one account and draw from the 2nd.. Year 2 I draw from the other etc. 

 

That way theres a clear paper trail that any money being remitted to Thailand is seasoned over 12 months and is then savings not income. 

It is my understanding that if you bring the money to Thailand in the same year in which it is earned abroad, even if you let it sit in a savings account without touching it, then you are in principle subject to taxation. Am I wrong?

Unless you are already paying tax on that in your home country.

[grkt]

Nobody will ask anything.

 

[arithai12]

17 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Where?

I have not been able to find it

On the revenue department web site, there is no specific mention of pensions.

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

however, this commercial firm specifically mentions them

https://www.siam-legal.com/Business-in-Thailand/thailand-income-tax.php

 

I use a tax lawyer, and she told me the same things as on the latter.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, arithai12 said:

however, this commercial firm specifically mentions them

<snip>

I use a tax lawyer, and she told me the same things as on the latte

Did you ever consider they might be saying that to get money for preparing your tax returns.

[wolf81]

I'd like to note one thing about transferring money directly to your Thai bank account, when:

- The money is sent over in a foreign currency (not Thai Baht)

- Your account contains Thai Baht

 

In this situation it's likely the interbank exchange rate will reduce your returns by quite a bit. Reason being is that when changing currencies, banks use an exchange rate that is quite a bit lower than the actual exchange rate. For example the actual exchange rate might be 38 Baht for 1 EUR, while the interbank exchange rate might be 32 Baht for 1 EUR. In that situation you would lose 6 Baht for every EUR. This example is the actual interbank exchange rate for EUR to BHT that I saw on Schiphol about half a year ago.

 

In this case I think it's a better idea to have a foreign bank account in the same currency as the currency your client pays you and send the money over using TransferWise. Or instead of opening a bank account, just use a TransferWise borderless account (free account, can store EUR, USD, AUD, GBP) and again use TransferWise to send money over to your Thai Bank account. You will safe a lot of money on the interbank exchange rate. With TransferWise the money is sent over in the actual exchange rate, while you pay a small fee.

 

TransferWise

Edited June 12, 2018 by wolf81

[Baerboxer]

18 hours ago, Timwin said:

Just make sure the name in the transfer matches exactly what is in the bank book, like "Mr John Adam Smith". If the name is something like your company or anything else (other than at least your first name and surname), it will be rejected. They are much stricter than in EU for example, where you can put "donald duck" or "I am not a morning person" and it still gets transferred.

 

I have said at the immigration at Suvarnabhumi that I work online, digital nomad. That was ok for them and it is the strictest entry point of all. Strictly speaking they could make it illegal but they are not enforcing it so. After all, it is a win for Thailand with money coming in without taking any Thai jobs. If you work for a Thai company than you better have a work permit (with work location address specified).

 

It is illegal. You are in Thailand, working and having money transferred to a Thai bank, i.e. you are earning income, which if you are resident here for tax purposes you should be declaring on your tax return.

 

However, the authorities choose to turn a blind eye as you aren't taking a job from a Thai or in direct internal competition to a Thai business etc. Upset someone and that could change.

 

An IO officer told me a long time ago that they don't care what you do outside Thailand (working that is). Digital nomads are in a grey area in between as the work is outside but they are physically in. All is fine but bare in mind it's by their good grace not by a right that you are allowed to do it. 

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, wolf81 said:

I'd like to note one thing about transferring money directly to your Thai bank account, when:

- The money is sent over in a foreign currency (not Thai Baht)

- Your account contains Thai Baht

 

In this situation it's likely the interbank exchange rate will reduce your returns by quite a bit. In this case I think it's a better idea to have a foreign bank account in the same currency as the currency your client pays you and send the money over using TransferWise. Or instead of opening a bank account, just use a TransferWise borderless account (free account, can store EUR, USD, AUD, GBP) and again use TransferWise to send money over to your Thai Bank account. You will safe a lot of money on the interbank exchange rate.

 

I have Thai bank accounts in GBP and USD. I transfer in dollars or pounds and then can move to my ThB account on-line when the ER is favorable.