mfd101 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Orton Rd said: True, can't imagine crazy Hillary sitting there shaking Kims hand The problem with Hilary is that she isn't crazy. And so would not have had the courage or the perspective to make this happen. It takes at least 1 crazy to shatter the 60 years of frozen history & start the process of moving forward. Where will it end? Noone knows, but better to start than to do nothing. Hilary probably never heard the saying: If I'm not making mistakes, it's because I'm not doing anything. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sanemax Posted June 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 hour ago, DM07 said: First of all: others could have- they just didn't see the point in legitimizing a madman! Second: I will stand corrected, if things turn out otherwise, but I don't believe, this is more than an exercise to make the orange idiot look good...and it will fail badly! You HOPE that it will fail . You and the anti-Trump brigade are desperate for the meeting to be a failure . You dread the meeting being successful . 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, mfd101 said: The problem with Hilary is that she isn't crazy. And so would not have had the courage or the perspective to make this happen. It takes at least 1 crazy to shatter the 60 years of frozen history & start the process of moving forward. Where will it end? Noone knows, but better to start than to do nothing. Hilary probably never heard the saying: If I'm not making mistakes, it's because I'm not doing anything. By Einstein's definition, she is. Crazy, I mean. Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results. So are the rest of the so called diplomats -and intelligence officials- who have been indoctrinated in a 60+ year failure in N. Korea (and Cuba). It took someone from outside, who hasn't had the dogma beaten into him by the party elders and their donors. Will he succeed? No clue here. But a slim chance is better than none. Edited June 12, 2018 by impulse 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 31 minutes ago, CharlesSwann said: I can see some easing of tension, though no substantive change. The "easing of tension" in itself is a substantive change . The meeting itself is a "substantive change" 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 40 minutes ago, CGW said: Fat Boy does a great job of justifying developing a nuclear arsenal Look what happened to those countries that didn't have a bargaining chip ? There are hundreds of Countries that do not have nuclear weapons and they seem to survive OK without needed to have nukes to bargain with 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opl Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 13 minutes ago, sanemax said: You HOPE that it will fail . You and the anti-Trump brigade are desperate for the meeting to be a failure . You dread the meeting being successful . It hope it will be a fantastic achievement ( … Obama warned Trump about NK threat) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Peterw42 Posted June 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) I hope something comes out of the summit, I think 90% has already happend from the China and Sth Korea meetings, Trump turns up for the photo op at the end.. People have short memories, it was only a couple of years ago Fox news, conservatives etc crucified Obama for wanting/planning a summit/meeting with Nth Korea. https://nowthisnews.com/videos/politics/fox-news-different-reactions-regarding-negotiations-with-north-korea Edited June 12, 2018 by Peterw42 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGW Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, sanemax said: There are hundreds of Countries that do not have nuclear weapons and they seem to survive OK without needed to have nukes to bargain with Good luck, or no oil? Edited June 12, 2018 by CGW 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, Peterw42 said: I hope something comes out of the summit, I think 90% has already happend from the China and Sth Korea meetings, Trump turns up for the photo op at the end.. People have short memories, it was only a couple of years ago Fox news, conservatives etc crucified Obama for wanting/planning a summit/meeting with Nth Korea. What , so Obama wanted peace talks with NK , but he got crucified by the media and so was unable to do so and it was China and South Korea who made peace with NK and 90 % if the issues have already been sorted out. And Donald has just turned up to have his photo taken with Kim ? So, Obama , Norther Korea, South Korea and China all did very well and Trump and Fox news caused all the problems in the first place ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 2 hours ago, ravip said: Even with all the criticisms aimed at Trump, he has achieved something others could not. You mean giving Kim an international stage and treating him as you would a major world leader? That's more like something others would not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM07 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 47 minutes ago, sanemax said: You HOPE that it will fail . You and the anti-Trump brigade are desperate for the meeting to be a failure . You dread the meeting being successful . Yeah...you know all, you great mindreader! I actually don't think, he has the capacity to even fully understand, what he is doing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM07 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 hour ago, lannarebirth said: "They didn't see the point in legitimizing a madman" ; fair enough. But my question is, if they thought he was a madman, why did they dither while he developed nuclear weapons and missiles to launch them? That didn't happen on Trump's watch. Oh you are right! History happened before your great leader took office! By the same token: the unemployment numbers have been down since the Obama- years, yet Trump is taking credit for it! He is the president NOW, so he has to deal with the situation at hand. And my fear is, that after he takes a dump tomorrow morning and tweets some BS, like he alsways does, Kim will be back to testing missiles (or "missils", as Trump calls them)! I sure hope I am wrong, but this guy is out of his depth so much, so can almost see, that the emperor has no clothes on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, DM07 said: Yeah...you know all, you great mindreader! I actually don't think, he has the capacity to even fully understand, what he is doing! Its quite clear, the anti-Trump brigade would hate to see any Trump success . If this meeting is successful, they/you will look for an angle to discredit Trump, It has already started : Whatever the outcome, you and you gang will attack Trump , its very unfair 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 hour ago, CharlesSwann said: Trump says what he thinks, so is a good person to be friends with. Presumably Kim thought it was an opportunity for genuine friendship - especially as his nuclear programme has apparently folded. As with Mao-Nixon, I can see some easing of tension, though no substantive change. If that's true, then Trump's mind changes a lot. He has a history of changing his mind about his "friends." So maybe, not such a good person to be friends with. And reports of his nuclear program folding are highly dubious. No qualified observers were allowed to view the destruction. North Korea's demolition of its only nuclear test site may have just been a show for the cameras North Korea recently claimed to have destroyed its only nuclear test site and let journalists record the process, but intelligence assessments suggest this may have just been a show for the cameras. The explosions at the tunnels of the mountainous Punggye-ri test site appeared to have been "too small" to have collapsed them in a significant way, according to an international arms control official. http://www.businessinsider.com/north-korea-nuclear-test-site-may-not-have-really-been-destroyed-2018-6 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM07 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 minute ago, sanemax said: Its quite clear, the anti-Trump brigade would hate to see any Trump success . If this meeting is successful, they/you will look for an angle to discredit Trump, It has already started : Whatever the outcome, you and you gang will attack Trump , its very unfair No idea, what you are talking about! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, DM07 said: Oh you are right! Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, sanemax said: Its quite clear, the anti-Trump brigade would hate to see any Trump success . If this meeting is successful, they/you will look for an angle to discredit Trump, It has already started : Whatever the outcome, you and you gang will attack Trump , its very unfair "....its very unfair" Or as Trump used to say, "nasty". Now take all them things you allege, and try applying them both to Trump's or his supporters' reactions, when anything to do with Obama, Clinton, or something that ain't adulation of Trump is discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Given Trump's penchant for claiming his failures as successes, what are the odds that he'll claim success no matter what the outcome? By involving himself personally in the negotiations, he has staked his reputation as a dealmaker on the outcome. That's putting the Trump brand at risk. And for Trump, his brand is who he is, or at least, who he and others believe him to be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Morch said: "....its very unfair" Or as Trump used to say, "nasty". Now take all them things you allege, and try applying them both to Trump's or his supporters' reactions, when anything to do with Obama, Clinton, or something that ain't adulation of Trump is discussed. Some of the Trump supporters are just as bad as the anti-Trump brigade , critical of everything Obama/Clinton said . I do feel that that is the wrong approach . Actions/words should be judged on the content , rather than on who said them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, sanemax said: Some of the Trump supporters are just as bad as the anti-Trump brigade , critical of everything Obama/Clinton said . I do feel that that is the wrong approach . Actions/words should be judged on the content , rather than on who said them I'll buy into that when I'll notice such objections directed at Trump's or Trump supporters' comments. Also, allow me to disagree with the premise - ignoring who says what, or their relevant record is not a good idea. Not by a long shot. If a person is known to lie (just an example), should this be swept aside and each of his statements be treated as if that's irrelevant? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpoint Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Of course Kim is going to throw some crumbs to Trump. Just like Putin and Xi, he sees the benefit of having a buffoon in the Whitehouse who has done more to destabilise the west than all three of them combined could ever do. It's entirely in their interest to keep him popular with those voters who are easily swayed by beads and mirrors. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 17 minutes ago, bristolboy said: Given Trump's penchant for claiming his failures as successes, what are the odds that he'll claim success no matter what the outcome? By involving himself personally in the negotiations, he has staked his reputation as a dealmaker on the outcome. That's putting the Trump brand at risk. And for Trump, his brand is who he is, or at least, who he and others believe him to be. No question he is and does all of those things and people who suggest he could possibly screw something up have a very good point and may very well be right. That said, it is palpable, the feelings from many people that is their greatest wish that he should fail. So THEY may be right! That's just sick. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Morch said: I'll buy into that when I'll notice such objections directed at Trump's or Trump supporters' comments. Also, allow me to disagree with the premise - ignoring who says what, or their relevant record is not a good idea. Not by a long shot. If a person is known to lie (just an example), should this be swept aside and each of his statements be treated as if that's irrelevant? If a person were to say something that is untrue, of course this should be pointed out and the truth should be told , but what I meant was , say that it was Obama now in Singapore meeting with Kim , would all the anti-Trump brigade still be as critical as they are now or would they have a different opinion ? I do believe that the anti-Trump brigade would have a completely different stance , praising Obama for his efforts to bring a peaceful conclusion to the conflict . Judge people on their actions , rather than just constant criticism of people you dont like 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravip Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 ...legitimizing a madman! ...orange idiot look good...and it will fail badly! Meanwhile, resident buffoon... I actually don't think, he has the capacity to even fully understand, what he is doing! Such comments! Obviously the anti-Trump brigade are desperate for the meeting to be a failure and totally incapable of excepting something positive from a person they dont support or like. Sitting back, passing rude and sarcastic comments will not achieve anything, except to build up a herd of think alike followers. It is a shame that humans still behave like this, albeit boasting the are 'developed' ! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opl Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: No question he is and does all of those things and people who suggest he could possibly screw something up have a very good point and may very well be right. That said, it is palpable, the feelings from many people that is their greatest wish that he should fail. So THEY may be right! That's just sick. It is quite palpable that Trump needs to trash tweet US allies to strenghten his attitude in praising dictators, autocrates, all people he feels and loves to compete with on a one-on-one basis at America's brand expenses - who cares anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Opl said: It is quite palpable that Trump needs to trash tweet US allies to strenghten his attitude in praising dictators, autocrates, all people he feels and loves to compete with on a one-on-one basis at America's brand expenses - who cares anyway. America isn't a brand. That kind of language is the language of the corporatocracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 It is indeed progress if the nuclear threat posturing is toned down on both sides and there is agreement to move forward, but IF "trump" gets a deal with NK anywhere near as good as the IRAN deal that he just scrapped (irrationally, mostly about his sick hatred of Obama) I'll be totally amazed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 48 minutes ago, bristolboy said: Given Trump's penchant for claiming his failures as successes, what are the odds that he'll claim success no matter what the outcome? By involving himself personally in the negotiations, he has staked his reputation as a dealmaker on the outcome. That's putting the Trump brand at risk. And for Trump, his brand is who he is, or at least, who he and others believe him to be. So you have to agree that it has been a success for Trump. No one is saying it was a failure. Trump wins again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM07 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 12 minutes ago, ravip said: ...legitimizing a madman! ...orange idiot look good...and it will fail badly! Meanwhile, resident buffoon... I actually don't think, he has the capacity to even fully understand, what he is doing! Such comments! Obviously the anti-Trump brigade are desperate for the meeting to be a failure and totally incapable of excepting something positive from a person they dont support or like. Sitting back, passing rude and sarcastic comments will not achieve anything, except to build up a herd of think alike followers. It is a shame that humans still behave like this, albeit boasting the are 'developed' ! Aha! I would not care, if I "liked" him- I judge him by his policies and by the way he acts on the national and international stage! His policies are a shame, he is a liar and a braggart and he is (IMHO) dangerous to international policy and diplomacy! Nothing to do with my "sympathy" for anybody else! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 30 minutes ago, Morch said: I'll buy into that when I'll notice such objections directed at Trump's or Trump supporters' comments. Also, allow me to disagree with the premise - ignoring who says what, or their relevant record is not a good idea. Not by a long shot. If a person is known to lie (just an example), should this be swept aside and each of his statements be treated as if that's irrelevant? Obama lied many times ( if you like your Dr you can keep your Dr etc etc etc ), but was given a pass by Obama supporters. Why shouldn't Trump supporters have the same "right"? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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