Trump says summit removed North Korean nuclear threat; Democrats doubtful

[lannarebirth]

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

From the text of Trump's after summit speech, though commented upon in more detail elsewhere by Trump.

 

I used to discuss nuke with him all the time. He was a great expert. A great brilliant genius. Dr. John Trump. MIT sent me a book on my uncle. We used to talk about nuclear. You talk about a complex subject. It is not just get rid of the — rid of the nukes. When you hit a certain point, you cannot go back.

 

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/6/12/17452624/trump-kim-summit-transcript-press-conference-full-text

 

 

Oh yeah, that. I had read that already. It hurt my head.

[stevenl]

21 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Not the way I see it , posters are trying to downplay the recent agreements , looking to be critical of every aspect , desperately trying to find negatives , suggesting that the agreement is just a meaningless piece of paper , refusing to give Triumph any credit .

   I get the impression that if Kim fired a rocket over Japan today , they would all be out on the streets celebrating .

   And the only reason is because Triumph is involved .

Had Obama achieved  this , you just know that they would have a completely different attitude

Yes, he would have been accused of treason. Or maybe that he wasn't born in Kenya after all but in North Korea, and sent to the USA as a spy.

[Jingthing]

It's not only democrats that are doubtful.

Most of the world is justifiably doubtful.

I'm now feeling after the "trump" DELUSIONAL announcement that NK is no longer a nuclear threat (when he didn't even get a LIST of all NK nuclear assets and didn't even demand a timetable to get that list and getting that list would be only a START) that this whole thing was a pure political PR exercise to try to save the atrocious "trump" presidency.

Singapore -- you've been conned! 

Singapore spent a lot of money to host this empty results CIRCUS and they did get some return in promoting their good image internationally, but I think they now have a case to demand some amount of COMPENSATION from the USA for being shamelessly used as they were.

They didn't volunteer to host, they were asked. 

Their good will has been cynically exploited by the greatest charlatan in the history of the world, the current U.S. president. 

Edited June 14, 2018 by Jingthing

[bristolboy]

5 hours ago, stevenl said:

Yes, he would have been accused of treason. Or maybe that he wasn't born in Kenya after all but in North Korea, and sent to the USA as a spy.

Had Obama achieved what? That is the crux of the question. One which you keep waffling on.

Kim got a moratorium on joint US/SK. military exercises.

He got a pronouncement from Trump that North Korea is no longer a nuclear threat.

The leader of an impoverished nation, he got to meet with the President of the United States as an equal.

And all he had to say was that North Korea would work towards dencuclearization. Whatever that means.

 

[stevenl]

32 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Had Obama achieved what? That is the crux of the question. One which you keep waffling on.

Kim got a moratorium on joint US/SK. military exercises.

He got a pronouncement from Trump that North Korea is no longer a nuclear threat.

The leader of an impoverished nation, he got to meet with the President of the United States as an equal.

And all he had to say was that North Korea would work towards dencuclearization. Whatever that means.

 

I keep waffling on what?

 

Think you're addressing the wrong poster here.

[bristolboy]

Just now, stevenl said:

I keep waffling on what?

 

Think you're addressing the wrong poster here.

You're right. Got to work on my trigger finger.

[bristolboy]

6 hours ago, sanemax said:

Not the way I see it , posters are trying to downplay the recent agreements , looking to be critical of every aspect , desperately trying to find negatives , suggesting that the agreement is just a meaningless piece of paper , refusing to give Triumph any credit .

   I get the impression that if Kim fired a rocket over Japan today , they would all be out on the streets celebrating .

   And the only reason is because Triumph is involved .

Had Obama achieved  this , you just know that they would have a completely different attitude

Had Obama achieved what? That is the crux of the question. One which you keep waffling on.

Kim got a moratorium on joint US/SK. military exercises.

He got a pronouncement from Trump that North Korea is no longer a nuclear threat.

The leader of an impoverished nation, he got to meet with the President of the United States as an equal.

And all he had to say was that North Korea would work towards dencuclearization. Whatever that means.

[sanemax]

34 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Had Obama achieved what?

Getting the high score on the pinball machine in the White house

[bristolboy]

Just now, sanemax said:

Getting the high score on the pinball machine in the White house

If he did, he would have had the self-restraint to keep it to himself. But we know that's not a thing because the present occupant isn't boasting that he did it. Come to think of it, even if it wasn't a thing, Trump might still boast about it.

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

And all he had to say was that North Korea would work towards dencuclearization.

I didnt realise that .

All Kim said was "North Korea would work towards denuclerisation" , I disagree  with Trump on this , Trump should have gotton some assurances , like something written down and also Trump should have made sure that Kim stopped firing rockets and various other things .

   Terrible by Trump, all Kim having to say was "North Korea would work towards dencuclearization." and thats it ?

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I didnt realise that .

All Kim said was "North Korea would work towards denuclerisation" , I disagree  with Trump on this , Trump should have gotton some assurances , like something written down and also Trump should have made sure that Kim stopped firing rockets and various other things .

   Terrible by Trump, all Kim having to say was "North Korea would work towards dencuclearization." and thats it ?

That was the heart of it. Here's the only paragraph that mentions denuclearization:

 

3. Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula

 

The first 2 paragraphs could have been written by someone who works for Hallmark and the 4th and final one is about recovering missing remains of veterans.

[sanemax]

Just now, bristolboy said:

That was the heart of it. Here's the only paragraph that mentions denuclearization:

 

3. Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula

 

The first 2 paragraphs could have been written by someone who works for Hallmark and the 4th and final one is about recovering missing remains of veterans.

Oh , I see, it was actually written down and signed by both of them, I thought that you said that all Kim had to say was "North Korea would work towards dencuclearization."

    NK will work towards denuclearisation in line with the Panmunjom declaration .

 

[bristolboy]

Just now, sanemax said:

Oh , I see, it was actually written down and signed by both of them, I thought that you said that all Kim had to say was "North Korea would work towards dencuclearization."

    NK will work towards denuclearisation in line with the Panmunjom declaration .

 

Oh, you've cleverly caught me out. Instead of using "write" I used "said". Because "said" is never used to mean write in casual discourse. And that's a telling point you raised that they both signed on to a memorandum --  they actually signed onto a memorandum. And they signed it in writing. Most likely in script. Never mind that the relevant paragraph has no clear meaning in regard to the meaning of denuclearizaton and what it means to "work towards" it.

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Oh, you've cleverly caught me out. Instead of using "write" I used "said". Because "said" is never used to mean write in casual discourse.

Not really no, instead of saying "all Kim had to do was to say .................." , when infact he  to signed an agreement and  declaration on various issues .

   There is a big difference between  stating that all Kim had to  say was six words and Kim signing an agreement which consisted of numerous points .

[sanemax]

8 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Never mind that the relevant paragraph has no clear meaning in regard to the meaning of denuclearizaton and what it means to "work towards" it.

I have no idea what he means by that either .

I have been trying to find out myself .

I spoke to Morch earlier and we established that "working towards denuclearisation" means to build more nuclear bombs with the capacity to reach US mainland 

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Not really no, instead of saying "all Kim had to do was to say .................." , when infact he  to signed an agreement and  declaration on various issues .

   There is a big difference between  stating that all Kim had to  say was six words and Kim signing an agreement which consisted of numerous points .

4 points actually. And here are the other three:

1. he United States and the DPRK commit to establish new US-DPRK relations in accordance with the desire of the peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity.
2. The United States and DPRK will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean PeninsulaThe United States and the DPRK commit to recovering POW/MIA remains, including the immediate repatriation of those already identified.

    4  The United States and the DPRK commit to recovering POW/MIA remains, including the immediate repatriation of those already identified.

 

Clearly the first 2 are about as meaningful as x's and o's .

And the last one is important to the establishment of  peace how?

[Morch]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

I have no idea what he means by that either .

I have been trying to find out myself .

I spoke to Morch earlier and we established that "working towards denuclearisation" means to build more nuclear bombs with the capacity to reach US mainland 

 

No, we didn't. You lie.

[sanemax]

10 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

No, we didn't. You lie.

I was being sarcastic in a satirical way , I quite clearly wasnt being serious .

(P.S. ^ That isnt my opinion, that is a fact)

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I was being sarcastic in a satirical way , I quite clearly wasnt being serious .

(P.S. ^ That isnt my opinion, that is a fact)

 

Lame.

And pretty much exemplifies how Trump's style would resonate with some. Sad.

[Morch]

 

Quote

Just over half of all Americans say they approve of how President Donald Trump has handled North Korea, but only a quarter think that his summit this week with Kim Jong Un will lead to the denuclearization of the Korean peninsula, according to a Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll released on Wednesday.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-usa-poll-exclusive/exclusive-half-of-americans-back-trumps-handling-of-north-korea-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN1J92N8

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

18 hours ago, webfact said:

"One trip and it's "mission accomplished," Mr. President? North Korea still has all its nuclear missiles, and we only got a vague promise of future denuclearization from a regime that can't be trusted," said Adam Schiff, the top Democrat on the U.S. House of Representatives Intelligence Committee.

 

"North Korea is a real and present threat. So is a dangerously naive president," he wrote on Twitter.

 

Senator Chris Van Hollen, also a Democrat, said of Trump's tweet about North Korea no longer presenting a threat: "This is truly delusional."

 

Let's be real here. EVERYONE should HOPE the summit was the start of a denuclearization process for the Korean Peninsula. I don't think any American of any political persuasion would hope otherwise, not to mention everyone else around the world.

 

However, hope is hope, and reality is reality. And it's good to see from the quotes above that at least some folks in Washington aren't drunk on the Trump Kool-Aid and can still manage to look at world politics with some level of reality and objectivity. North Korea hasn't done jot one yet, other than sign a paper that really doesn't commit them to anything specific. This could all fall apart at any time very easily.

 

They've lied and failed to keep their promises before, and there's little reason not to believe there's at least a decent chance they'll repeat the same pattern this time. HOPE they won't. HOPE the summit will bring real change. But for the president to come home and declare NK is no longer a nuclear threat is both "dangerously naive" and "delusional" as quoted above.

 

Unless, Trump himself doesn't actually believe what he publicly proclaimed to the world either, and he's just back to his normal habit of lying thru his teeth about anything and everything in his special world where reality and actual facts have no meaning or importance. His world of "alternate facts" regarding NK.

 

 

[sanemax]

7 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-usa-poll-exclusive/exclusive-half-of-americans-back-trumps-handling-of-north-korea-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN1J92N8

 

 

Just over half ?

When are NK due to denuclearise ?

When are the next U.S elections ?

Its all falling into place 

[sanemax]

11 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Let's be real here. EVERYONE should HOPE the summit was the start of a denuclearization process for the Korean Peninsula. I don't think any American of any political persuasion would hope otherwise, not to mention everyone else around the world.

 

However, hope is hope, and reality is reality. And it's good to see from the quotes above that at least some folks in Washington aren't drunk on the Trump Kool-Aid and can still manage to look at world politics with some level of reality and objectivity. North Korea hasn't done jot one yet, other than sign a paper that really doesn't commit them to anything specific. This could all fall apart at any time very easily.

 

They've lied and failed to keep their promises before, and there's little reason not to believe there's at least a decent chance they'll repeat the same pattern this time. HOPE they won't. HOPE the summit will bring real change. But for the president to come home and declare NK is no longer a nuclear threat is both "dangerously naive" and "delusional" as quoted above.

 

Unless, Trump himself doesn't actually believe what he publicly proclaimed to the world either, and he's just back to his normal habit of lying thru his teeth about anything and everything in his special world where reality and actual facts have no meaning or importance. His world of "alternate facts" regarding NK.

 

 

NK destroyed their nuclear testing site last week .

Kim is the new guy in charge of NK , he seems sincere in his quest for peace in the region , committing to denuclearising the Korean peninsula is very specific .

 

 https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/06/07/north-korea-destroys-missile-test-site-ahead-trump-summit/681522002/

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, sanemax said:

NK destroyed their nuclear testing site last week .

Kim is the new guy in charge of NK , he seems sincere in his quest for peace in the region , committing to denuclearising the Korean peninsula is very specific .

 

 https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/06/07/north-korea-destroys-missile-test-site-ahead-trump-summit/681522002/

North Korea's nuclear test site has collapsed, say geologists

North Korea’s main nuclear test site has collapsed following its latest bomb test and could be at risk of leaking radiation, research by Chinese geologists has shown.

As a result, the Punggye-ri site under Mount Mantap has been rendered unsafe for further testing and should be monitored, scientists from the University of Science and Technology of China have said. 

 

Their findings raise questions about Kim Jong-un’s announcement his country was ceasing its testing programme ahead of planned meetings with the US president, Donald Trump, and his South Korean counterpart, Moon Jae-in. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/north-korea-nuclear-test-site-collapse-punggye-ri-mount-mantap-a8322971.html

 

Kim just put some lipstick on a pig.

 

 

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, sanemax said:

NK destroyed their nuclear testing site last week .

Kim is the new guy in charge of NK , he seems sincere in his quest for peace in the region , committing to denuclearising the Korean peninsula is very specific .

 

 https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/06/07/north-korea-destroys-missile-test-site-ahead-trump-summit/681522002/

 

There were other views on that. These were previously posted, you're welcome to ignore them, though:

 

 

To experts, North Korea dismantling nuclear site is like destroying evidence

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/22/asia/north-korea-destroy-nuclear-site-intl/index.html

 

North Korea 'destroys' nuclear test site as world's media watches

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/24/north-korea-destroys-nuclear-test-site-as-worlds-media-watches

 

There is no particular reason to accept your view that Kim is "sincere" or "committed".

[sanemax]

6 minutes ago, Morch said:

There is no particular reason to accept your view that Kim is "sincere" or "committed".

I have given my reasons as to why I think that Kim is sincere (in one of the threads on the topic) , why do you think that Kim isnt sincere ?

   

[bristolboy]

19 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I have given my reasons as to why I think that Kim is sincere (in one of the threads on the topic) , why do you think that Kim isnt sincere ?

   

Because he has a history of lying? Not to mention murdering. And there's a huge part of the North Korean government that is devoted solely to evading sanctions and bringing luxury good into North Korea for the delectation of Kim and friends, while ordinary North Koreans go hungry and live in wretched conditions. And then there are the gulags. What makes you think that an amoral creature like that has any use for sincerity?

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

Because he has a history of lying? Not to mention murdering. And there's a huge part of the North Korean government that is devoted solely to evading sanctions and bringing luxury good into North Korea for the delectation of Kim and friends, while ordinary North Koreans go hungry and live in wretched conditions. And then there are the gulags. What makes you think that an amoral creature like that has any use for sincerity?

We are talking about the subject of denuclearisation ,  he may very well have treated NKeans badly , but that doesnt mean he isnt willing to disarm .

   He may well want to disarm to lift the sanctions and to give North Koreans a better life ?

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

We are talking about the subject of denuclearisation ,  he may very well have treated NKeans badly , but that doesnt mean he isnt willing to disarm .

   He may well want to disarm to lift the sanctions and to give North Koreans a better life ?

I think you've been given the reason over and over again. What he signed on to commits him to nothing since it's not clear what it means. If he's so sincere, why not simply state the North Korea is going to give up its nuclear weapons?. Sincere people are clear and open in their statements. They don't state their intentions via statements that can be read to mean almost anything. What was to stop this sincere individual from stating that he was going to absolutely give up nuclear weapons?

And as pointed out above, your evidence that Kim is sincere because he destroyed his nuclear test site isn't really supported by the facts, is it?

Not only that but experts who could determine if the subsequent detonations were actually adequate to destroy what remained were barred from the scene. Is that the act of a "sincere" person.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

49 minutes ago, sanemax said:

NK destroyed their nuclear testing site last week .

Kim is the new guy in charge of NK , he seems sincere in his quest for peace in the region , committing to denuclearising the Korean peninsula is very specific .

 

 https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/06/07/north-korea-destroys-missile-test-site-ahead-trump-summit/681522002/

 

Here's a more balanced, comprehensive report on the subject of NK missile site destruction from NPR. NK MAY have destroyed one site, but how important that site was, and whether it was in any way key to their nuclear program remains unknown. NK has multiple nuclear sites in many different locations. 

 

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2018/jun/12/trump-says-north-korea-will-destroy-missile-site/

 

And, in what a lot of nuclear experts consider a troubling sign for the future, NK did not allow any outside experts or inspectors to witness that supposed destruction, and only allowed a small group of journalists in. That kind of pattern of behavior by NK isn't going to cut it for the future, assuming the Trump Admin really insists on complete and verifiable denuclearization, instead of walking away with a fake deal and declaring a fake victory.

 

Quote

 

Part of the problem is that the promises Trump has secured from North Korea have been unverified by outside monitors, says Vipin Narang, a political scientist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who specializes in nuclear issues.
 

"We basically take their word for it," he says. "They're certainly not letting inspectors in."

That was the case when the North demolished its nuclear weapons test site in late May, says Bermudez. Although Western journalists were allowed to visit the site and film its destruction, there was a notable lack of international inspectors and engineers to verify what the reporters were seeing.