In Thai tourist spots, a hidden world of male sex slavery

[geriatrickid]

8 minutes ago, RandolphGB said:

Yawn. Another virtue signaling piece from the liberal media

Feeling guilty, are you?

[Sirbergan]

19 minutes ago, The manic said:

It's rubbish. A lie or something exceptional. Pure fantasy.

You must be joking. My wife's cousin tried to pimp out her then 15 years old daughter to a 40 year old acquaintance of mine, It didn't happen, shortly after she went off to Pattaya to"work". And that's just the near family, there are plenty of other examples around that the farmer families try to hide to keep face. The fact that you don't see it every day, doesn't mean that it's not happening.

[Brayka]

 

BOB 12345,

Feminists are NOT only busy with the pay gap, such an answer only can come from a man! What do you know about it, at least not enough if you even think they are equality payd. The word alone means their first goal are woman, because as the words says, an organisation for and lead by woman.

In the case of the boys there are also a lot of organisations for man and boys, but most of the time and helped by foreigner organisations because  they lack funds and government support.

In most cases the men are the aggressors and if they are all thinking like you, nobody is helping anyone. So stop blaming feminism and move to do something yourself!

[cyberfarang]

3 hours ago, The manic said:

Another NGO spouting nonesense and redefining the word trafficking to suit their purposes which is hoovering up money. For real abuse of children visit the UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5838589/Oxford-child-sex-gang-jailed-75-YEARS.html

But such situations are not covered by the hypocrite zealots and NGOs because of political correctness. Thailand is a soft target but they would never dare report on the activities of the Asian grooming gangs in the UK because they are cowards.  The above linked story is about real abuse and rape and sex slavery not to be confused with voluntary sex workers of which there are thousands in Europe,  America, New Zealand and Australia. These sanctimonious NGOs, oozing self righteousness and propaganda have a hidden agenda. The promotion of right wing Christianity and the garnering of funds to spread their lies and propaganda. 

Good post.

 

I would also like to know where these NGO`s gather their statistics from?

[Cranky]

5 hours ago, LazySlipper said:

 

I fail to see how anyone would want to traffic ladyboys.

That's a bit biased isn't it in this day of equal opportunity?  Be careful you don't get locked up for sexist remarks

[Dustdevil]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

If you don't see it and your mate's don't than its not that in the open as the article makes it out to be. Remember these organisations have an agenda too and want things to look bad so they get more donations.

One of many things I like about Chiang Mai is that its red light district is not all-encompassing and spread out all over the place. It can even be a pleasant walk at night sometimes. It's only one or two streets, for a few blocks. The women I notice and admire there are the ones in the regular service industry--store clerks, cooks, Air Asia ground staff, and professionals such as pharmacists; they're lovely and they work hard, quickly and efficiently with a smile. In BKK the nearest 7-11 from where I was staying had a Muslim girl working there with her hijab on, the only one who was grouchy, lazy and obviously resented western customers. I really wanted to tell her she should look up to her Thai co-worker girls and try to emulate them. Stupid ***ch.

[Oziex1]

1 hour ago, AsiaCheese said:

Interesting - the same "article" (actually: NGO/foundation PR) was featured in the Bangkok Post as well, yesterday. Same "facts", same proven shocker keywords (human trafficking, sexual exploitation, underage, the usual), same unbelievably high figures from reliable-sounding sources. And most importantly: the same underlying indignation and non-sequitur tone that instantly and automatically turns any commenter who doesn't track/agree with the article 100% into a pedophile, supporter of the flesh trade, human trafficker, what-have-you and worse. It's a bit surprising to see "Thomson Reuters Foundation" as the source here, which one would normally tend to associate with factual journalism. But then, tons of sources with impressive names and lilly-white objectives are strewn as "facts" throughout the article, presumably with a good helping of evangelistic do-gooders on a money collection mission involved as well.

 

Let's face it: the horizontal trade has always existed, and will always exists. Exploitation is part and parcel of our society in general; why should "sexual" be the great exclusion...? If lawmakers were a bit more down-to-earth and less pressured by do-gooder groups and religious zealots, there could be laws that acknowledge/recognize prostitution and protect its actors, instead of pushing everything underground and creating the breeding ground for (there you go): human traffickers, exploiters etc. etc. etc.

This is about the exploitation of innocent kids and the impoverished, this is not acceptable in any way, regardless of history.

[AsiaCheese]

6 minutes ago, Oziex1 said:

This is about the exploitation of innocent kids and the impoverished, this is not acceptable in any way, regardless of history.

 

No, it's not. It's about:

 

14 minutes ago, Dustdevil said:

Remember these organisations have an agenda too and want things to look bad so they get more donations.

 

I'm not saying that exploitation of innocent kids isn't happening (and it definitely should not), but it's blown completely out of proportions and "used" - just like the picture of one drowned kid was used to "prove" that thousands of refugee kids are drowning every single day... Loads of powerful propaganda going on, mostly with an agenda that has its main focus on donations.

[gregchambers]

NGO's are getting desperate, first they stretched the definition of "boy" or "girl" to 16-18 then to 21 and now to 24! It allows them to claims thousands in the 14-24 range when there might be only one or two in 14-16 range thus getting more donations so they can stay in first class hotels, drive great cars and get tax free hardship allowances. Most of the disgraceful sexing of kids is done by local men, foreigners either too frightened or just not interested. They are so enraged when they see an older man with a cute 25 year-old they seem to equate this to all sorts of sexual deviancy and extrapolate all kinds of insulting thoughts, even to the extent of trying to set foreigners up with underage locals.

Edited June 14, 2018 by gregchambers

[duanebigsby]

1 hour ago, RandolphGB said:

Yawn. Another virtue signaling piece from the liberal media

Liberal - having a philosophy based on liberty and equality.

 

Doesn't sound so bad to me.

[Oziex1]

1 hour ago, AsiaCheese said:

 

No, it's not. It's about:

 

 

I'm not saying that exploitation of innocent kids isn't happening (and it definitely should not), but it's blown completely out of proportions and "used" - just like the picture of one drowned kid was used to "prove" that thousands of refugee kids are drowning every single day... Loads of powerful propaganda going on, mostly with an agenda that has its main focus on donations.

 

If the story is hyped up in any way or if the doo gooders are asking for donations this should not be the focus of our anger or indifference to the subject.

If one child is exploited anywhere for any reason that is one too many.

[BernieOnTour]

Well ... if there is such a "scene" -and after the Mae Sai case last year, I assume, it is-  something should be done about it !

 

However:

This sensationalist article and the "stretching" of real facts by some NGOs will for sure not be helpful !

 

From this article, one might get the impression, sex trade with minors is flourishing and "in the face" at Tapae gate. I am at least once a week in that area after dark and never noticed anything of it. And the 1000s of tourists visiting Tapae, the Sunday night market, shooting selfies, will all call that rubbish. 

Therefore, it is distracting from the  real problem.

 

The "extension" to general prostitution does not help either to deal with the real problem.

 

Unfortunately, my experiences with NGO staff in Chiangmai and Cambodia proves some of the NGO critics right - there are a lot of very committed NGO workers, but also a considerable number mainly interested in fund raising and a good life with a good salary -the higher up the "management ladder", the more ...

 

 

[hotchilli]

Thailand has more than 123,530 sex workers, according to a 2014 UNAIDS report. Of these, at least 40 percent are under 18, and a significant number are boys, according to rights groups.

 

But prostitution is illegal in Thailand.... maybe something for "Big Joke" to get stuck into...

or maybe the toes he'll tread on are too far up the food chain to be touched?

[BernieOnTour]

12 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

Thailand has more than 123,530 sex workers, according to a 2014 UNAIDS report. Of these, at least 40 percent are under 18, and a significant number are boys, according to rights groups.

 

But prostitution is illegal in Thailand.... maybe something for "Big Joke" to get stuck into...

or maybe the toes he'll tread on are too far up the food chain to be touched?

Never trust a statistic, you didn't fudge by yourself ?

 

Maybe, he finds out, the real number is 119,990 ???

[kannot]

6 hours ago, owl sees all said:

I think all the figures quoted are nonsense.

 

Of course there are more. Figures just made up. Yesterday I counted 123,531 in soi 6.

thats nonsense Im sure it was soi 7 or 8 or 11199.328?

[duanebigsby]

Seems to me some posters are denying that sexual exploitation and trafficking exists simply because because prostitution is  the oldest profession and its paticipants are willingly involved.  Most prostitutes are doing it voluntarily but for many they have been forced into it.

 

They also are assuming NGOs are wildly exaggerating the problem for financial reasons. While I believe some of them are exaggerating, I also don't think it's a reason to deny the problem.

 

I also believe many NGOs are really doing their best to help.

[Rimmer]

A flame has been removed along with a Troll post and reply.

[owl sees all]

I showed Mrs Owl the figures; especially the 123,530 one, and read some of the article to her.

 

She went all quiet.

 

What's up love? Are you so sad about all the prostitution?!

 

"I think number 30 on the lottery this week."

Edited June 14, 2018 by owl sees all

[robblok]

9 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

Seems to me some posters are denying that sexual exploitation and trafficking exists simply because because prostitution is  the oldest profession and its paticipants are willingly involved.  Most prostitutes are doing it voluntarily but for many they have been forced into it.

 

They also are assuming NGOs are wildly exaggerating the problem for financial reasons. While I believe some of them are exaggerating, I also don't think it's a reason to deny the problem.

 

I also believe many NGOs are really doing their best to help.

By exaggerating they get me up against them. If they used real numbers and described the real situation I would not have complained. But the way they portrait it is totally wrong. By doing so they alienate people like me who otherwise would have supported them. I don't deny it happens, and it should be dealt with, but to blow up a problem with fake numbers is not the way to do it. It creates mistrust of NGO's we all seen the horrible things NGO's have done (think Haiti and sex with real underage while rebuilding). First they should clean up their own act and report actual numbers not inflated numbers to impress people who have no idea about how it really is. 

 

I am against the exploitation of kids, but I also against fake claims to make extra money. 

[WinnieTheKhwai]

7 hours ago, trianglechoke said:

WOW, I live in Chiang Mai. Although I don't live near that area everyone I know goes for a drink inn that general area now and again and I have never seen or heard anything. I don't even recall seeing pairs of young guys either.

 

Right.  So don't believe everything you read, especially not when written by people who have a direct financial interest in exaggeration and sensationalization. It's a little said to see this originate at Reuters, actually.  It seems more on the level of a British tabloid.

 

6 hours ago, Lupatria said:

It is estimated by Mahidol University that CPs amounted to about 36,000 children out of 150,000-200,000 prostitutes. The Center for the Protection of Children's Rights estimates that Thai and foreign child prostitutes aged under 11 years, in 1996, amounted to about 800,000 out of a total 2 million prostitutes. 

 

Stuff like that is what gave NGOs such a bad rep in Thailand.  800,000 child prostitutes under 11..   Pull the other one.

 

 

 

[csabo]

7 hours ago, car720 said:

A man is just a money bag.  As in give the money and carry the bags.  A  woman once told me that a man is just like any other accessory.  Like a handbag.  You carry it around so that you will always have money with you but when you get home you hang it up somewhere and forget about it.  

I often think that when I see a girl riding on the back of a motorbike or otherwise in tow. It's like the guy says before leaving the house "Keys? Check. Wallet? Check. Sunglasses? Check. Wet hole to put my penis into? Check."

[cyberfarang]

1 hour ago, BernieOnTour said:

Well ... if there is such a "scene" -and after the Mae Sai case last year, I assume, it is-  something should be done about it !

 

However:

This sensationalist article and the "stretching" of real facts by some NGOs will for sure not be helpful !

 

From this article, one might get the impression, sex trade with minors is flourishing and "in the face" at Tapae gate. I am at least once a week in that area after dark and never noticed anything of it. And the 1000s of tourists visiting Tapae, the Sunday night market, shooting selfies, will all call that rubbish. 

Therefore, it is distracting from the  real problem.

 

The "extension" to general prostitution does not help either to deal with the real problem.

 

Unfortunately, my experiences with NGO staff in Chiangmai and Cambodia proves some of the NGO critics right - there are a lot of very committed NGO workers, but also a considerable number mainly interested in fund raising and a good life with a good salary -the higher up the "management ladder", the more ...

 

 

Around the Tapae Gate area there used to be a thriving trade going on with street girls and a few boys thrown into the mix and yes, quite a few were under aged.  It was possible to stay at a hotel in the town, venture out around the Tapae Gate area late at night, and have a girl back to the room within minutes.

 

But that was over 10 years ago and since the turf has been taken over by creepy ladyboys, and none of them appear under aged. In-fact those ladyboys can be quite aggressive and really irritating. The police have tried to clear them away, but they soon return again.

 

 

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Potential problems with this Reuters article: 

 

• Sex slavery is happening out in the open at Thapae gate, early evening amidst tourists taking pictures or buying souvenirs.  (It is literally the worst place in the North to do anything shady, there is a police box and CCTV cameras.) 
   
• Hints at a high degree of organization, with foreign men knowing the pimp and arranging the transaction via him.  (Looking at Thaivisa posts, foreigners have trouble even procuring drinking water or cooking gas without their Mrs.) 
   
• Conflates underage sex and pedophilia with consensual adult sex.
   
• Conflates prostitution with gay cruising, for which Thapae Gate is a known spot.
   
• Conflates child sexual abuse with gogo bars and other tourist bars.
   
• No photos of any of this. In the same article on a newspaper site there is a very slick video by this NGO with intentional shaky-cam footage to create an impression of things being extremely dodgy. One of the bars shown in drive-by is Ram Bar, a completely legit 'straight-friendly gay bar', that does fun cabaret shows. 
  Video for reference: 
   
• At least (!) 40% of sex workers in Thailand are children/underage. This is inserted into the line about the total number of sex workers from a UNAIDS report, however that report makes no claim to the number of underage sex workers / abused children.
   
• "Today, he drives a tuk-tuk, his girlfriend sometimes accompanying him," So happy to have that added about his girlfriend, so we can learn that they cured him from being gay / saved this straight Thai man from white gays.

Edited June 14, 2018 by WinnieTheKhwai

[brling]

3 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 

 

Just a job? Do you really think that a 15 year old boy wakes up and says oh joy, today I am going to fellate the shrivelled stinky penis of some 70 year old sex tourist, who will then go home and call child sex workers fags and ridicule  gay people in stable relationships? You are obviously clueless 

 

Exactly, well said.

[khunPer]

8 hours ago, fullcave said:

I wonder do the parents notice their children are missing? 

It's probably not as simple as that.

 

I would presume that some don't tell at home, what they are doing – just like many girls working in the night life say that they don't dare to tell their parents, other than they have a well-paid job, and the family don't ask much as long as some money arrives – and I also think the "trafficking" issue should be re-considered. I'm not saying that there is no trafficking, but some NGOs might overexpose it, and in some cases the "victims" might be in a better situation saying they have been trafficked, if authorities steps in – like in the "Victoria's The Secret for Ever"-case – as well as authorities might wish to "solve" some trafficking-cases for better records.

 

"It's not simple" – always remember that there are at least 50 shades of gray – but the truth is rather that a lot of mainly girls, and some boys and transgender (katoys/ladyboys) are heading for money and a better life for their family, and perhaps also lottery tickets with the chance of meeting a well off person, not only foreigners. Some families back home may know what's happening, but not speak; others may not know what's really going on; and some might have been promised another kind of work – or think that – and find the truth when they arrive, and are already in debt for travelling expenses, so it's not possible to just step out; and numerous other cases where even a family in some level might have "sold" a daughter or son. And it seems like that it's both Thais, and migrants from neighboring countries, where we mainly hear about Laos and Cambodia, including underage workers. All this are facts based on various news stories and books.

 

Today, where everybody seem to have a mobile smartphone, and even being on-line, and cases where normal working girls, and boys and transgender, are mixed with so-called trafficked, it would seem weird if the trafficked ones cannot get in contact with the world outside, and say that there's something wrong. That why I think the cases of "trafficking" shall be reconsidered, it might be voluntary in some, if not many. of the situations.

[The manic]

2 hours ago, Oziex1 said:

This is about the exploitation of innocent kids and the impoverished, this is not acceptable in any way, regardless of history.

This is a non verified story. Probably lies and exaggeration. The NGOs never go to Afghanistan or Pakistan or the UK cities where child rape and abuse is  all too common. This story is ostensibly about child exploitation but is really an attack on all sex workers what ever their age or gender.  It trades on sensationalism and not on facts. Of course the Ill  treatment and abuse of children is to be condemned but these NGOs are more concerned with their own moral crusade than on the conditions of vulnerable people.  These stories feed on people's moral   prurience and are toxic rubbish.

Edited June 14, 2018 by The manic

[jak2002003]

1 hour ago, WinnieTheKhwai said:

Potential problems with this Reuters article: 

 

• Sex slavery is happening out in the open at Thapae gate, early evening amidst tourists taking pictures or buying souvenirs.  (It is literally the worst place in the North to do anything shady, there is a police box and CCTV cameras.) 
   
• Hints at a high degree of organization, with foreign men knowing the pimp and arranging the transaction via him.  (Looking at Thaivisa posts, foreigners have trouble even procuring drinking water or cooking gas without their Mrs.) 
   
• Conflates underage sex and pedophilia with consensual adult sex.
   
• Conflates prostitution with gay cruising, for which Thapae Gate is a known spot.
   
• Conflates child sexual abuse with gogo bars and other tourist bars.
   
• No photos of any of this. In the same article on a newspaper site there is a very slick video by this NGO with intentional shaky-cam footage to create an impression of things being extremely dodgy. One of the bars shown in drive-by is Ram Bar, a completely legit 'straight-friendly gay bar', that does fun cabaret shows. 
  Video for reference: 
   
• At least (!) 40% of sex workers in Thailand are children/underage. This is inserted into the line about the total number of sex workers from a UNAIDS report, however that report makes no claim to the number of underage sex workers / abused children.
   
• "Today, he drives a tuk-tuk, his girlfriend sometimes accompanying him," So happy to have that added about his girlfriend, so we can learn that they cured him from being gay / saved this straight Thai man from white gays.

I totally agree with you.

 

This NGO organisation post this stuff about once a year to raise money to fund their lifestyle, visa, easy job and to CONVERT Thai children to Christianity.. urban 'light'.. basically means they are bringing the 'light of Jesus' on a mission to convert Thai children.

 

It's main purpose is to spread Christianity, the evils / demons of being gay, and to supply jobs to other Christian Farangs.  

 

Last time they posted this rubbish I did a lot of research into this organisation.. and its does well to hide its real mission.  I found links to their fundraising and church affiliations online after some digging.

 

Don't believe what they are saying about the child boy prostitution here in Chiang Mai.  Their article was massively misleading, carefully worded to con people out of money for their 'good deeds'. 

 

For those of you who thing they are telling the truth... don't argue with me about it... instead just go along to the foundation day center for 'boys' and see the 'good work' they are doing themselves..... basically it MAY be something like this.....no one there apart form a few unemployed teenagers, and the praying for their meals and lessons from the bible.

 

After that visit go to the places they say are selling underage trafficked boys for sex... you will find none... especially in Ram Bar or the other gay bars......which have changed in all recognition over the years.....  this organisation is WAY out of date and touch.. and now its struggling to justify it's reason to stay here and employ people.  

 

 

Edited June 14, 2018 by jak2002003

[The manic]

19 minutes ago, WinnieTheKhwai said:

Potential problems with this Reuters article: 

 

• Sex slavery is happening out in the open at Thapae gate, early evening amidst tourists taking pictures or buying souvenirs.  (It is literally the worst place in the North to do anything shady, there is a police box and CCTV cameras.) 
   
• Hints at a high degree of organization, with foreign men knowing the pimp and arranging the transaction via him.  (Looking at Thaivisa posts, foreigners have trouble even procuring drinking water or cooking gas without their Mrs.) 
   
• Conflates underage sex and pedophilia with consensual adult sex.
   
• Conflates prostitution with gay cruising, for which Thapae Gate is a known spot.
   
• Conflates child sexual abuse with gogo bars and other tourist bars.
   
• No photos of any of this. In the same article on a newspaper site there is a very slick video by this NGO with intentional shaky-cam footage to create an impression of things being extremely dodgy. One of the bars shown in drive-by is Ram Bar, a completely legit 'straight-friendly gay bar', that does fun cabaret shows. 
  Video for reference: 
   
• At least (!) 40% of sex workers in Thailand are children/underage. This is inserted into the line about the total number of sex workers from a UNAIDS report, however that report makes no claim to the number of underage sex workers / abused children.
   
• "Today, he drives a tuk-tuk, his girlfriend sometimes accompanying him," So happy to have that added about his girlfriend, so we can learn that they cured him from being gay / saved this straight Thai man from white gays.

Thank you for analysis and explaining why this report is rubbish. 

[tominbkk]

Worldvision, one of the biggest NGOs, consider anyone 26 years old or younger to be a child.  That's how they get their huge child sex figures.

[The manic]

1 hour ago, khunPer said:

It's probably not as simple as that.

 

I would presume that some don't tell at home, what they are doing – just like many girls working in the night life say that they don't dare to tell their parents, other than they have a well-paid job, and the family don't ask much as long as some money arrives – and I also think the "trafficking" issue should be re-considered. I'm not saying that there is no trafficking, but some NGOs might overexpose it, and in some cases the "victims" might be in a better situation saying they have been trafficked, if authorities steps in – like in the "Victoria's The Secret for Ever"-case – as well as authorities might wish to "solve" some trafficking-cases for better records.

 

"It's not simple" – always remember that there are at least 50 shades of gray – but the truth is rather that a lot of mainly girls, and some boys and transgender (katoys/ladyboys) are heading for money and a better life for their family, and perhaps also lottery tickets with the chance of meeting a well off person, not only foreigners. Some families back home may know what's happening, but not speak; others may not know what's really going on; and some might have been promised another kind of work – or think that – and find the truth when they arrive, and are already in debt for travelling expenses, so it's not possible to just step out; and numerous other cases where even a family in some level might have "sold" a daughter or son. And it seems like that it's both Thais, and migrants from neighboring countries, where we mainly hear about Laos and Cambodia, including underage workers. All this are facts based on various news stories and books.

 

Today, where everybody seem to have a mobile smartphone, and even being on-line, and cases where normal working girls, and boys and transgender, are mixed with so-called trafficked, it would seem weird if the trafficked ones cannot get in contact with the world outside, and say that there's something wrong. That why I think the cases of "trafficking" shall be reconsidered, it might be voluntary in some, if not many. of the situations.

Trafficking has just become a lazy term for simplistic thinkers. Most sex workers commute.