1 minute ago, dcutman said:

These adults are being prosecuted for entering the country illegally. They chose to ignore the advise of ICE,  for those seeking asylum, and not enter the country through a port of entry to avoid separation and prosecution. Exactly how many American citizens get special treatment and not have there children taken from them while being prosecuted for committing a crime? Furthermore where is the liberal outrage for the millions of homeless and neglected American children that dont have any of the luxuries afforded to illegal immigrant children?

You consider being locked up, put in a cage and removed from your family as a luxury?  

 

19 minutes ago, Scott said:

You consider being locked up, put in a cage and removed from your family as a luxury?  

 

I will ignore your foolish exaggerations.  These illegal children have a roof over their head, a bed to sleep in, and eat three meals a day, not to mention educational, sports and play activities.

Again where is the outrage from the liberal squealing machines about the millions of American children and in some cases their parents that sleep on the street and eat out of garbage cans?

I guess these are the cages you speak of?

http://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5

Of course these images are of 2014.

8 minutes ago, dcutman said:

I will ignore your foolish exaggerations.  These illegal children have a roof over their head, a bed to sleep in, and eat three meals a day, not to mention educational, sports and play activities.

Again where is the outrage from the liberal squealing machines about the millions of American children and in some cases their parents that sleep on the street and eat out of garbage cans?

You will seldom see it and if you do, it won't be for long.   Children who are neglected are removed and placed in foster care.   Before that happens the parents are given every opportunity, including gov't housing and welfare and medical benefits.  

 

 

8 minutes ago, dcutman said:

I will ignore your foolish exaggerations.  These illegal children have a roof over their head, a bed to sleep in, and eat three meals a day, not to mention educational, sports and play activities.

Again where is the outrage from the liberal squealing machines about the millions of American children and in some cases their parents that sleep on the street and eat out of garbage cans?

Whataboutary with hyperbole added for effect.

 

The US is the richest nation in the world.

If your claims are correct regarding ‘millions of American children and in some cases their parents that sleep on the street and eat out of garbage cans?’ then firstly, non of that poverty is created by immigrant children and it is certainly not cured by separating immigrant children from their parents then caging them.

 

Secondly, the problems of poverty in the US are the responsibility of the US government, this US government has consistently acted to remove help and protections for the poor.

 

If you are outraged over poverty in the US, and I doubt you are, make the right choice in the mid terms and play your part in stopping this President’s onslaught against the poor.

7 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

It seems the US has forgotten one of the most important set of principles established during one of the most important trials it presided over in the 20th century. The Nuremberg trials: Here are the first 4 principles established, where , to cut a long story short, men were hanged because you cannot hide behind the statement "I was ordered to do it".

 

There is NO law stating that the children must be separated from their parents and I would go out on a limb to state that I am sure that International Law is being contravened when people present themselves properly in accordance with the law as an asylum seeker and are then detained and have their children taken away, the same as someone illegally crossing the border.

 

The USA no longer have any right to question any other country about human rights abuses. What is happening is a disgrace and I must confess to watching a particular report on the news today where I was moved to an emotional reaction at the horror of what is occurring (must have been some dust in the air). Trump is keeping excellent company with the likes of Kim Jong. Normal, decent, coherent Americans need to make these SOB's (Presidentially used term) pay at the elections, and the ring leaders need jailing.

A well thought through, well argued and profoundly correct post.

 

Trump and his most enthusiastic supporters will dismiss it, as they have shown themselves to be totally amoral.

 

He belongs in the "trash can" of political history, along with his little fat North Korean friend and any number of equally amoral political leaders.

 

I didn't care for Bill Clinton or George W Bush, but goodness me neither of them came close to poisoning the society they led, which is precisely what Trump is doing by taking children from their families and putting them in camps. 

44 minutes ago, dcutman said:

I will ignore your foolish exaggerations.  These illegal children have a roof over their head, a bed to sleep in, and eat three meals a day, not to mention educational, sports and play activities.

Again where is the outrage from the liberal squealing machines about the millions of American children and in some cases their parents that sleep on the street and eat out of garbage cans?

I guess these are the cages you speak of?

http://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5

Of course these images are of 2014.

That's right. It's liberals who don't care about families living on the streets. Conservatives want to do a huge increase in assistance to these families. And they've already started by restricting access to food stamps.

And just when you thought it couldn't be worse, there's this:

 

"Another new policy will make it even more difficult to reunite children with their families. The Trump administration is now fingerprinting family members wishing to take in the unaccompanied children, and it wants to share other information it has about the children's families with the Department of Homeland Security."

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/16/620451012/dhs-nearly-2-000-children-separated-from-adults-at-border-in-six-weeks?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20180616

1 hour ago, dcutman said:

I will ignore your foolish exaggerations.  These illegal children have a roof over their head, a bed to sleep in, and eat three meals a day, not to mention educational, sports and play activities.

Again where is the outrage from the liberal squealing machines about the millions of American children and in some cases their parents that sleep on the street and eat out of garbage cans?

I guess these are the cages you speak of?

http://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5

Of course these images are of 2014.

 

38 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

That's right. It's liberals who don't care about families living on the streets. Conservatives want to do a huge increase in assistance to these families. And they've already started by restricting access to food stamps.

I really is astounding the degree of reality disconnect on display when the man-child fanboys post their drivel. But then having a tenuous grasp on reality must be a prerequisite for swallowing the the utter tripe emanating from the Swamp King in the WH. 

6 minutes ago, Becker said:

 

1 hour ago, dcutman said:

I will ignore your foolish exaggerations.  These illegal children have a roof over their head, a bed to sleep in, and eat three meals a day, not to mention educational, sports and play activities.

Again where is the outrage from the liberal squealing machines about the millions of American children and in some cases their parents that sleep on the street and eat out of garbage cans?

I guess these are the cages you speak of?

http://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5

Of course these images are of 2014.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/one-30-american-children-homeless-report-says-n250136

One in 30 American Children Is Homeless, Report Says

5 minutes ago, atyclb said:

One in 30 American Children Is Homeless, Report Says

2000 out of 2000 children whose families were seeking asylum in the USA are in cages.

4 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

10 minutes ago, atyclb said:

One in 30 American Children Is Homeless, Report Says

2000 out of 2000 children whose families were seeking asylum in the USA are in cages.

 

 

how many of those "caged children" have you agreed to transport to and take care of in your home?  or already have

2 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

 

how many of those "caged children" have you agreed to transport to and take care of in your home?  or already have

How many of the ‘One in Thirty homeless American children’ have you offered a home to?

 

How does caging 2000 (and more) immigrant children help homeless American children?

 

Since when did the nationality of a child figure in whether a child is deserving of protection and care?

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

9 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

 

how many of those "caged children" have you agreed to transport to and take care of in your home?  or already have

How many of the ‘One in Thirty homeless American children’ have you offered a home to?

 

none. i am not the one(s) virtue signaling here

 

 

Quote

 

How does caging 2000 (and more) immigrant children help homeless American children?

 

has no effect on homeless american children unless someone make the claim resources used for illegal aliens diminish diminish those that could be helping homeless us children

 

 

Quote

 

Since when did the nationality of a child figure in whether a child is deserving of protection and care?

 

are you saying the detention center does not protect or care for them?

You mean they're on offer?

 

Just now, atyclb said:

 

none. i am not the one(s) virtue signaling here

 

 

 

has no effect on homeless american children

 

 

 

are you saying the detention center does not protect or care for them?

Kids can suffer permanent damage from border separations

 

The Trump administration’s new policy of forcibly separating children from their parents will cause irreparable damage to many of the children and is a “great injustice,” doctors said Friday...

Besides being traumatic and unnecessary, the stress can damage brain development, they said.

“Any forced separation is highly stressful for children and can cause lifelong trauma, as well as an increased risk of other mental illnesses, such as depression, anxiety, and post-traumatic stress disorder,” said the American Psychiatric Association’s Dr. Altha Stewart.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/kids-suffer-permanent-damage-border-separations-n883636

 

‘America is better than this’: What a doctor saw in a Texas shelter for migrant children

"Inside a room dedicated to toddlers was a little girl no older than 2, screaming and pounding her fists on a mat. One woman tried to give her toys and books to calm her down, but even that shelter worker seemed frustrated, Kraft told The Washington Post, because as much as she wanted to console the little girl, she couldn’t touch, hold or pick her up to let her know everything would be all right. That was the rule, Kraft said she was told: They’re not allowed to touch the children."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/06/16/america-is-better-than-this-what-a-doctor-saw-in-a-texas-shelter-for-migrant-children/?utm_term=.f22fa5b6b451

 

 

 

1 minute ago, atyclb said:

 

none. i am not the one(s) virtue signaling here

 

 

 

has no effect on homeless american children

 

 

 

are you saying the detention center does not protect or care for them?

I, and many others, am outraged by this abuse of children by the government.

Your characterisation of my outrage as ‘virtue signalling’ is a rightwing play-book tool to dismiss the opinions and emotions of others. It says a great deal about you and absolutely nothing about me.

 

Correct, no effect on homeless American children, hence it’s whataboutary. (Your whataboutary).

 

I’m saying, and the law says, the safest and most desirable institution for taking care of children is the family unit.

 

I’m also saying this Trump policy of forcibly separating children from their parents and caging them without due process of judicial and welfare review is an atrocity, a stain on the US claim to be a civilised nation.

 

 

Trump is caging these children because he wants the democrats to cave in and approve full budget for his wall. That's all it is. He is using toddlers and babies as political pawns to get what he wants. Now who was that White House adviser talking last week about a 'special place in hell'? ..... and that was about Trudeau ? on that scale hell is too good for Trump.

2 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

You mean they're on offer?

 

Kids can suffer permanent damage from border separations

 

The Trump administration’s new policy of forcibly separating children from their parents will cause irreparable damage to many of the children and is a “great injustice,” doctors said Friday...

Besides being traumatic and unnecessary, the stress can damage brain development, they said.

“Any forced separation is highly stressful for children and can cause lifelong trauma, as well as an increased risk of other mental illnesses, such as depression, anxiety, and post-traumatic stress disorder,” said the American Psychiatric Association’s Dr. Altha Stewart.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/kids-suffer-permanent-damage-border-separations-n883636

 

‘America is better than this’: What a doctor saw in a Texas shelter for migrant children

"Inside a room dedicated to toddlers was a little girl no older than 2, screaming and pounding her fists on a mat. One woman tried to give her toys and books to calm her down, but even that shelter worker seemed frustrated, Kraft told The Washington Post, because as much as she wanted to console the little girl, she couldn’t touch, hold or pick her up to let her know everything would be all right. That was the rule, Kraft said she was told: They’re not allowed to touch the children."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/06/16/america-is-better-than-this-what-a-doctor-saw-in-a-texas-shelter-for-migrant-children/?utm_term=.f22fa5b6b451

 

 

 

So no blame goes to the parents on this one?  Its only Trumps fault?

According to a well publicized US law, if a person or family is seeking asylum, they should go to the nearest US port of entry to file asylum legally. The people or family filing asylum legally will be processed and most likely released for a hearing in the future.

3 minutes ago, dcutman said:

So no blame goes to the parents on this one?  Its only Trumps fault?

According to a well publicized US law, if a person or family is seeking asylum, they should go to the nearest US port of entry to file asylum legally. The people or family filing asylum legally will be processed and most likely released for a hearing in the future.

 

And yet, they are being blocked at the US ports of entry as well.

 

DESPERATE ASYLUM-SEEKERS ARE BEING TURNED AWAY BY U.S. BORDER AGENTS CLAIMING THERE’S “NO ROOM”

 

Quote

U.S. CUSTOMS AND Border Protection agents are systematically violating U.S. and international law by blocking immigrants at international ports of entry on the southern border from entering the country so they can claim asylum.

 

12 minutes ago, dcutman said:

So no blame goes to the parents on this one?  Its only Trumps fault?

According to a well publicized US law, if a person or family is seeking asylum, they should go to the nearest US port of entry to file asylum legally. The people or family filing asylum legally will be processed and most likely released for a hearing in the future.

Which relates to the forced seperation of children from their families without due process of judicial and welfare review how?

 

Which requires children to be caged how?

1 minute ago, Silurian said:

 

And yet, they are being blocked at the US ports of entry as well.

 

DESPERATE ASYLUM-SEEKERS ARE BEING TURNED AWAY BY U.S. BORDER AGENTS CLAIMING THERE’S “NO ROOM”

 

 

Well they can wait in Mexico until there is room, the legal way, the responsible way as a parent that does not want to be separated from their children. Or enter illegally and put your children in harms way and run the risk of being caught and have their children separated from them until they are deported.

The law is the law, sorry but the irresponsible parents are 100% at fault if they are temporarily separated from their children.

 

17 minutes ago, dcutman said:

Well they can wait in Mexico until there is room, the legal way, the responsible way as a parent that does not want to be separated from their children. Or enter illegally and put your children in harms way and run the risk of being caught and have their children separated from them until they are deported.

The law is the law, sorry but the irresponsible parents are 100% at fault if they are temporarily separated from their children.

 

Here’s what’s going to happen:

 

Trump is being challenged by people across society over his policy of forcibly separating children from their parents and caging them.

 

The inevitable abuses and individual tragedies that occur will be made public via the media and civil/human rights groups.

 

There is no way in hell that ordinary Americans will accept the US government abusing children.

 

Trump will have to make a choice, U-Turn or double down.

 

The indications are he’ll double down.

 

So now he’s in a fight with common decency.

 

This fight he chose strips all the labels off, it’s not a matter of are you a Republican or a Democrat, a Christian, a Muslim or a n atheist, it not a question of gender, nationality, wealth or the lack thereof, married or single, a parent or not a parent.

 

The only question is are you a human being with normal human decency.

 

Trump is ending his time in office by creating an issue that unites all the people his whole candidacy was based on seperating.

 

Trump can’t win this one, there’s nowhere else to go when your already caging children.

16 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Which relates to the forced seperation of children from their families without due process of judicial and welfare review how?

 

Which requires children to be caged how?

You might want to catch up on due process. That is exactly what these illegal immigrants are receiving, even though they are not US citizens.

I am pretty certain all criminals in the US that are being detained and prosecuted will have their children removed from them until that process is complete.

Or do you think an illegal immigrant should have more rights than US citizens?

42 minutes ago, dcutman said:

So no blame goes to the parents on this one?  Its only Trumps fault?

According to a well publicized US law, if a person or family is seeking asylum, they should go to the nearest US port of entry to file asylum legally. The people or family filing asylum legally will be processed and most likely released for a hearing in the future.

Well, that's one way of abandoning your ridiculou contention that the children were being properly cared for.

48 minutes ago, dcutman said:

So no blame goes to the parents on this one?  Its only Trumps fault?

According to a well publicized US law, if a person or family is seeking asylum, they should go to the nearest US port of entry to file asylum legally. The people or family filing asylum legally will be processed and most likely released for a hearing in the future.

 

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Here’s what’s going to happen:

 

Trump is being challenged by people across society over his policy of forcibly separating children from their parents and caging them.

 

The inevitable abuses and individual tragedies that occur will be made public via the media and civil/human rights groups.

 

There is no way in hell that ordinary Americans will accept the US government abusing children.

 

Trump will have to make a choice, U-Turn or double down.

 

The indications are he’ll double down.

 

So now he’s in a fight with common decency.

 

This fight he chose strips all the labels off, it’s not a matter of are you a Republican or a Democrat, a Christian, a Muslim or a n atheist, it not a question of gender, nationality, wealth or the lack thereof, married or single, a parent or not a parent.

 

The only question is are you a human being with normal human decency.

 

Trump is ending his time in office by creating an issue that unites all the people his whole candidacy was based on seperating.

 

Trump can’t win this one, there’s nowhere else to go when your already caging children.

Your Trump hate is totally clouding any minuscule reasoning you might have.

 

The parents chose to put themselves and their children in danger by crossing the border illegally.  The parents had the opportunity to seek asylum legally, but didnt.

 

How many Americans that are being detained and prosecuted for breaking laws get a pass and dont have their children taken from them?

I am pretty sure illegal aliens dont have or deserve more rights than American citizens.

 

 

 

The fascinating part of this issue, is that neither Trump, nor any democrats or republicans have offered a solution to the immigration problems. How do you even begin to address illegal immigration, when the legal immigration system is completely broken. We do not hear Captain Chaos, nor any of his supporters talking about this. The quota system is completely broken, and has been for decades. The US is no longer able to attract the best and the brightest from around the world, because of the difficulties involved, in getting visas for those positions, even though there are not enough Americans to fill those positions. This has been addressed by one high tech CEO after another, and yet nobody does anything to fix it. 

 

Want to make America great again? Then start letting the brightest minds from around the world come and work, live and build the economy. 

 

I can understand the outcry on one level, with the uneducated masses fleeing to the US. We cannot allow the nation to become a culture of only dishwashers, maids and landscapers. That appears to be the direction it is heading. On the other hand, American companies need cheap, illegal labor to pick grapes, and fruit, and process meat, and run their factories. Few companies seem willing to pay a wage that would attract American workers, to these positions. So, it is not a simple problem. And those that are trying to dumb it down, to a number of slogans, and talking points that their master has been using, are simply not thinking the problem through with much articulation. 

 

Trump's executive order on immigration threatens what goes to the very core of America's innovative edge: the ability to attract global talent. Even if the ban is lifted, the damage has been done. Global talent has been put on alert. America’s science and tech edge has long been fueled by the talented immigrants it attracts from across the world. Immigrants have played an incredibly important role in America’s high-technology competitiveness. Foreign talent makes up a huge share of America’s science and technology workforce, and from a third to half of the founding teams of significant U.S. technology startups. The reality is that high-skill immigrants can choose where to go. For decades, they’ve picked the United States and those choices have benefitted us.

 

https://www.citylab.com/life/2017/01/how-trump-threatens-americas-talent-and-innovation-edge/515010/

20 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

What sick and evil parents for putting their children in that situation.

Families break apart when you commit crime and go to jail. Yet all these jack a**** still take the risk.

Drug cartels roam towns trying to kidnap young girls and boys - children, for cash/prostitution. Desperate parents leave behind everything they have so their children will not be taken from them. They head North, heading for a port of entry to claim asylum in the USA - a safe haven for the oppressed for 2 century's.  At the port of entry they are detained and their children...............are taken away from them. The parents do not know where their children are, the children do not know where their parents are. The US Government do not know which children are where and those below the age 5-6 are unable to answer any questions as to where they are from. Three words you said were correct "sick and evil". Go Trump MAGA.

1 minute ago, Rigby40 said:

Simplest way to avoid all that garbage is not to come to begin with knowing the consequences

So stay at home, let your children be kidnapped and forced into prostitution while you as a parent are probably murdered trying to prevent your kids being taken. Yup that sounds like a plan.

 

You truly have no idea do you.

 

This Trump policy of forcibly separating children from their parents without due process and caging them, Trump’s introduction of Concentration camps for children are and will be remembered as a low point in modern US history.

 

It’s astonishing how illiberals are so eager to defend this, the indefensible.

 

Their need to support abuse seemingly knowing no boundaries of human decency.

 

Remember which side of the argument over this particular  piece of abuse you are on.