Why Thailand needs the death penalty

[webfact]

Why Thailand needs the death penalty

By The Nation

 

 

The majory supports capital punishment, though there is a middle way short of abolition
 

Amnesty International has come under fire for deploring the execution on Monday of a convicted criminal who stabbed to death a teenager while stealing his phone and wallet. The victim was found with 24 knife wounds. The violent crime was committed in Trang province in July 2012 by a man with a history of arrests who turned 26 this year.

 

Amnesty’s Facebook page on Tuesday was inundated with comments criticising its attack on Thailand’s first execution since August 2009. Amnesty International Thailand’s claim that there is no evidence the death penalty has any deterrent effect was challenged by angry Thai netizens who support retaining capital punishment and rebuked the group for protecting “evil criminals”.

 

A live online broadcast of an Amnesty International Thailand press conference on Tuesday outside Bang Kwang Central Prison, where the execution by lethal injection was carried out, drew many angry comments from viewers criticising the group’s stance against Thailand’s latest punishment by death.

 

Some asked if the anti-execution campaigners sincerely believed that someone who cruelly killed one of their own family members did not deserve to be punished by death. The Facebook Live broadcast was full of “angry” emoticons posted by viewers.

 

Meanwhile, in an online opinion survey, 96 per cent of the 78,000 respondents showed support for the execution of convicted murderers. Judging from that reaction, we may conclude that a large segment of Thai society agrees with executing convicted perpetrators of violent crimes.

 

To change those minds, Amnesty International and other such groups will need to produce convincing evidence that a more humane penalty – such as lengthy or life imprisonment – is an effective method for turning people convicted of violent crimes and repeat criminal offenders into law-binding citizens.

 

It’s wise to show leniency to first-time criminals and those who commit criminal offences out of rage or perceived necessity. But when it comes to repeat offenders and seasoned criminals, can we really see the possibility of reform?

 

Capital punishment has been rare in Thailand in the 15 years since the country adopted a “more humane” method of execution, by lethal injection, in December 2003. The execution on Monday was the seventh since then. Many citizens blame a lack of harsh punishment for a seeming rise in violent crime in recent years, such as rape-murders and killings that involve dismemberment and other gruesome acts.

 

We should opt for a middle path between the two extremes, between the abandonment of capital punishment as advocated by Amnesty International and applying the death penalty for anyone convicted of a killing. 

 

The death penalty should be reserved for premeditated murder. The Thai justice system seems to follow this middle path. There are more than 500 prisoners currently on death row, and only one person has been executed.

 

Yes, we should consider the rights of the convicted criminals regardless of their sins. But we also should not ignore the feelings and rights of their victims’ aggrieved families. The authorities have to ensure justice for all parties involved in criminal cases and make sure no innocent people are punished for crimes they did not commit.

 

Anyone can have a rosy view of humanity from time to time – believing that perpetrators of violent crimes and repeat offenders can be reformed someday. But they also should accept the fact that not all of those criminals can be reformed, no matter how much effort goes into it.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/opinion/30348252

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-06-21

[Samui Bodoh]

This is nonsense; Thailand does not need the death penalty.

 

It does not act as a deterrent; the evidence does not support this claim.

 

There is a great likelihood that innocent people will be executed; the Thai police have numerous (numerous as hell!!!) questions surrounding their operations and honesty, the support mechanisms for the legal/criminal systems are staffed by bureaucrats with questionable abilities, and the Judicial system faces questions each and every day by international experts.

 

When you allow the State to kill someone, you can not fix it later if there is a mistake. And the Thai state makes mistakes. Many mistakes.

 

What would you do?

 

Say "Oops... er... sorry"?

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Samui Bodoh
Lack of coffee

[kannot]

26 minutes ago, webfact said:

It’s wise to show leniency to first-time criminals and those who commit criminal offences out of rage or perceived necessity. But when it comes to repeat offenders and seasoned criminals, can we really see the possibility of reform?

 

NO

[kannot]

9 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

This is nonsense; Thailand does not need the death penalty.

 

It does not act as a deterrent; the evidence does not support this claim.

 

There is a great likelihood that innocent people will be executed; the Thai police have numerous (numerous as hell!!!) questions surrounding their operations and honesty, the support mechanisms for the legal/criminal systems are staffed by bureaucrats with questionable abilities, and the Judicial system faces questions each and every day from international experts.

 

When you allow the State to kill someone, you can not fix it later if there is a mistake.

 

What would you do? Say "oops... er... sorry"?

 

 

In Thailand cash fixes everything, just  look at what happens if you kill someone whilst driving, pay up and all is fine.

[stanleycoin]

Somchai only understands the big stick.

it needs to be used on many different levels in Thailand.

This place is special.

 

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by stanleycoin

[ezzra]

There are no sure thing for everything we do in life, for the moment we wake up to the time we go to bed, perpetrators of heinous crimes where it was proved to be a crime of disproportions and unnecessary cruelty, should be met with capital punishment, not only as a deterrent, bus as in the bible, an eye for an eye, a life for a life....

[Darcula]

Think of this execution as a signal of what could happen if you break the law. A big change is coming, and some lawbreakers better be careful.

[Eligius]

1 hour ago, Samui Bodoh said:

This is nonsense; Thailand does not need the death penalty.

 

It does not act as a deterrent; the evidence does not support this claim.

 

There is a great likelihood that innocent people will be executed; the Thai police have numerous (numerous as hell!!!) questions surrounding their operations and honesty, the support mechanisms for the legal/criminal systems are staffed by bureaucrats with questionable abilities, and the Judicial system faces questions each and every day by international experts.

 

When you allow the State to kill someone, you can not fix it later if there is a mistake. And the Thai state makes mistakes. Many mistakes.

 

What would you do?

 

Say "Oops... er... sorry"?

 

You are right, Samui. And the Thai state not only makes 'mistakes', but deliberately engages in miscarriages of justice. Think of the two powerless Burmese guys (falsely) convicted of rape and murder on Koh Tao and awaiting execution. What a disgrace that is. And of course it has the gracious support of a certain kind-hearted General ...

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Eligius

[z42]

The death penalty simply doesn't deter criminality, however for certain types of criminals (the very worst, child rapists, serial killers etc) do deserve the ultimate punishment, and the population do deserve the ultimate protection from them.

 

But I dread to think how many innocent people are on death row here, or how many were convicted on the back of shonky evidence being used. The Thai legal system simply isn't robust enough in its current state to have the death penalty on its books because the sentencing given out in practice is at best inconsistent and at worst punishes offenders more harshly on their perceived social status.

 

The population at large can't think critically at the best of times, so I woud be very wary of what some quantitative statistics are purported to have shown.

Edited June 20, 2018 by z42

[Lungstib]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

there is no evidence the death penalty has any deterrent effect

I dont think this statement tells the story. It's not about deterring other offenders, it's about dealing with the one you are holding.

1 hour ago, webfact said:

they also should accept the fact that not all of those criminals can be reformed

Which is perhaps the main part of the story. Should a person who shows no sign of reforming their ways be kept in prison for 50 years at the taxpayer's expense? Its a dilemma with no obvious easy answer. 

I dont like the idea that a govt has the right to put someone to death, especially in a system so open to abuse as the Thai one. But I still dont know what we should do with an obviously dangerous psychopath. Add religion into the mix and the argument will go on for a long time!

[leeneeds]

Death penalty should be kept and used when heinous crimes are committed and beyond any sliver of doubt, 

Absolute conclusive, non tampered with evidence, there would be more reasons not to carry out the sentence because of so many doubts, but where you have in some cases admission, and barbaric crimes committed against fellow humans, then  society should have the right to remove the right to live,

some people are just evil, mitigation of drugs , alcohol, love, lack of defence monies or inept defence the list is very long, on grounds to keep these people incarcerated for very long periods or life, 

and there are some  (not many) who fall in to  that level of evilness that warrant removal, 

yesterday this same argument was raised and if you remember just recently the fellow who cut up his business partner, he should forfeit his life, no question, so some do fall over that compassion line and as a society we need to have lines if you like, or parameters of the law and acceptance of going out side of that parameter, there are consequences that society will come down hard on. 

I agree with most a very touchy and complex subject any doubt at all then no death penalty

but the fellow  mentioned above, that was calculated, premeditated and hidden to deceive, and used the proceeds to enhance his life, 

so what justice does this  victim have,  he can not speak from the grave, and if he could, I think we all know what his request of sentence would be to the judge presiding over sentencing, so does the victim have a voice,  no its lost in arguments of law, and badgered compassion.

 

Some how we have started to lose sense of right and issues are starting to get pulled and stretched and muddled, you have no right to kill period,

but mitigating situations and circumstances do happen in this complex life.

When it is a case as above then no question you should be removed from society and lessen the burden.

 

 

 

 

[Samui Bodoh]

16 minutes ago, Eligius said:

You are right, Samui. And the Thai state not only makes 'mistakes', but deliberately engages in miscarriages of justice. Think of the two powerless Burmese guys (falsely) convicted of rape and murder on Koh Tao and awaiting execution. What a disgrace that is. And of course it has the gracious support of a certain kind-hearted General ...

 

I posted on this yesterday as well.

 

The only reason that I can think of for re-introducing the death penalty now is that there is a desire to use it in an upcoming case and there is knowledge that it will be a controversial decision. By using here and now in this case, the desire is to 'normalize' its return so that when it is used in a more controversial case, the Thai authorities will be able to say "see, we do use it" or words to that effect.

 

And, the only case that I can think of which meets the criteria above is the Koh Tao miscarriage of justice.

 

 

[nev]

Maybe if the death penalty was brought in for corrupt politicians, police and the high so who blatantly break the rules to enhance their weath and not just for the poor, Then I can agree.

China has used this policy to eradicate the corrupt why not Thailand, Oh I know why those that make the decisions would not want their mates ending up on death row would they.

[mikebell]

Totally agree with Nev above.  The death penalty might deter the corrupt officials who rob the needy.   One a month for a couple of years might do it though Thais are slow learners and greed is genetically ingrained.

[kannot]

20 minutes ago, nev said:

Maybe if the death penalty was brought in for corrupt politicians, police and the high so who blatantly break the rules to enhance their weath and not just for the poor, Then I can agree.

China has used this policy to eradicate the corrupt why not Thailand, Oh I know why those that make the decisions would not want their mates ending up on death row would they.

That would be quite some row though?

[jossthaifarang]

Maybe off topic, but can you imagine them getting a hold old mate from Redbull, and giving him the injection?

 

It will never happen, because there will always be a money system in Thailand, if you have it you get out!

[yellowboat]

Thailand's legal system is not mature, though there are some mature law professionals in Thailand.  Would like to here what Khun June or others like her have to say.  Not interested in the eye for an eye nonsense.   Would like hear from people with vision not those from Thailand's dark past.  The lady with the dirty hands is Thailand's hope for a fair society. 

[mrfill]

42 minutes ago, nev said:

Maybe if the death penalty was brought in for corrupt politicians, police and the high so who blatantly break the rules to enhance their weath and not just for the poor, Then I can agree.

China has used this policy to eradicate the corrupt why not Thailand, Oh I know why those that make the decisions would not want their mates ending up on death row would they.

And who decides these politicians are corrupt? Even more corrupt politicians.

An ideal way of removing opposition - permanently.

 

All been done before in the 1930s.

[champers]

The PM will need to rehearse his answer for when May and Macron ask him about it this week. He has made a big problem for himself, with less than impeccable timing.

[JAG]

1 hour ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I posted on this yesterday as well.

 

The only reason that I can think of for re-introducing the death penalty now is that there is a desire to use it in an upcoming case and there is knowledge that it will be a controversial decision. By using here and now in this case, the desire is to 'normalize' its return so that when it is used in a more controversial case, the Thai authorities will be able to say "see, we do use it" or words to that effect.

 

And, the only case that I can think of which meets the criteria above is the Koh Tao miscarriage of justice.

 

 

Hmm. If you are right, and you may well be, is it not an astonishing insight into the arrogance, and thought process, of whoever thinks that by executing those two the doubts over their conviction, and perhaps the suspicion and even knowledge of who the real killer was will die too?

 

It will also provide the ultimate in arguments against the death penalty.

Edited June 21, 2018 by JAG

[trianglechoke]

Hopefully soon technology will be able to accurately predict if someone deserves life before they are born and be able to kill the scum in the womb.

No death penalty needed.

Humanity moves forward with abolished death penalties world-wide.

 

Thank me later 

[fantom]

'Meanwhile , in an online opinion survey, 96 per cent of the 78,000 respondents sh owed support for the execution of convicted murderers. Judging from that reaction, we may conclude that a large segment of Thai society agrees with executing convicted perpetrators of violent crimes.'

 

Online survey? How did they allow for sampling error?, who did the survey and how were the questions phrased?.

'We may conclude. ' Who are the 'we' and drawing a conclusion from such a survey as this to the whole population is flawed at best to put it politely.

 

These so called surveys seem to have little scientific rigour and should not be used in opinion articles about such a serious matter.

 

[RichardColeman]

3 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

It does not act as a deterrent; the evidence does not support this claim.

^{Certainly acts as a deterrent to the person that is executed for murder - evidence that he cannot kill again after his death  is VERY clear in that respect !} 

[JAG]

33 minutes ago, trianglechoke said:

Hopefully soon technology will be able to accurately predict if someone deserves life before they are born and be able to kill the scum in the womb.

No death penalty needed.

Humanity moves forward with abolished death penalties world-wide.

 

Thank me later 

Ah, eugenics.

Enthusiastically persued by a number of regimes, and thinking people, in the last century!

 

Off topic (and I do realize that you posted tongue in cheek), but eugenics would probably have ensured that the late Stephen Hawking would never have made it into the world - faulty genes and all that.

[Thian]

Well done Thailand...in the West we tried to "cure" idiots like this and release them after a while so they can and will do it again. That doesn't work, just get rid of them works well.

 

 

[Anak Nakal]

Thai Junta have article 44.

No give them death penalty too!

They not good or responsible.

[Orton Rd]

when was the last time a rich or well connected criminal was executed? seems to be reserved for the poorer elements

[Emster23]

If you are pro death penalty, would you be willing to carry out the execution? In some cases I think I would, but generally I'd say no. And if going to execute, lets go back to the old way of public executions. Maybe put on TV around 8:20 pm. "Thailand moves forward" sort of thing

[stanleycoin]

8 minutes ago, Emster23 said:

If you are pro death penalty, would you be willing to carry out the execution? In some cases I think I would, but generally I'd say no. And if going to execute, lets go back to the old way of public executions. Maybe put on TV around 8:20 pm. "Thailand moves forward" sort of thing

reckon 90% of Thailand would watch it, whilst eating pop corn and laughing. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by stanleycoin

[hansnl]

4 hours ago, kannot said:

In Thailand cash fixes everything, just  look at what happens if you kill someone whilst driving, pay up and all is fine.

In fact the death penalty seems to be reserved for poor people.

That is enough to stop state killings.

The man killed this week has always denied he did do the deed.

What about the two Burmese guys?

Enough reasons to stop state killings.

And the outcome of the polls?

Just shows Thai don't honour life and are not far away in thought from the followers of a death loving religion.

It surely makes me sad.