How it plays out, for the end game...

[CanuckThai]

In reading the heart warming article about the 93 y/o Swiss gentleman who arrived to reunite with his wife, I began asking myself a few questions about being in LOS in my twilight years.  I'm in no where near retirement, but what about when things become increasingly challenging, as the years go by (whatever age that might be).  How does one plan for very old age as an expat in LOS?

 

A couple of serious questions (please add anything that one might have to consider to prepare/plan/budget for).

 

Does someone in their late stage of life still have to report to an IO?  Is there an age that this gets waived?

What would the annual cost be to maintain your Thai residency (visa, agents, reporting etc. etc)

What happens if you end up struggling with Alzheimer's, Parkinson's or a cognitive issue?  Eg: IO comes for a visit, and you can't remember your own name, let alone what country you're in.

Obviously health insurance/coverage, medications becomes an issue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BritTim]

I am assuming that you are financially secure, though being retired in Thailand probably requires less in the way of income that in most Western countries.

 

The main thing to plan for is health insurance.

 

In many ways, Thailand is ideal for the very old. If you need to enter a care home, the quality of the nursing and other support you will receive is far superior to what you will receive in Western countries, at lower cost. In that case, I would also expect them to deal with your immigration formalities for you.

 

If you are frail, but still able to live independently, 90-day reporting ought to be possible online. Once a year, you would need to put in an appearance at immigration. However, a good agent can arrange paperwork, transport and priority queuing that will reduce the stress involved.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

2 minutes ago, BritTim said:

If you need to enter a care home, the quality of the nursing and other support you will receive is far superior to what you will receive in Western countries, at lower cost. 

 

Nonsense.

 

Why on earth would you spend your retirement in Thailand instead of having top class Canadian healthcare that will take care of you?

 

My mom is dirt poor in Canada. I bought her a condo (instead of some Thai tart) and now she gets money from the government, free healthcare and heavily discounted meds if she needs them which she does not as she only eats best quality organic food thanks to free government money.

 

I am so fed up with the "quality" healthcare here (which I get for free through my wife) that I'm going back to Toronto this summer to see real and informed doctors. 

 

This place is not good for old people and I doubt it will get better in the future. By my calculation you'd have to have around 10 million dollars banked in a savings account to have the same quality of life as the average Canadian.

 

 

 

[BritTim]

3 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

Nonsense.

 

Why on earth would you spend your retirement in Thailand instead of having top class Canadian healthcare that will take care of you?

 

My mom is dirt poor in Canada. I bought her a condo (instead of some Thai tart) and now she gets money from the government, free healthcare and heavily discounted meds if she needs them which she does not as she only eats best quality organic food thanks to free government money.

 

I am so fed up with the "quality" healthcare here (which I get for free through my wife) that I'm going back to Toronto this summer to see real and informed doctors. 

 

This place is not good for old people and I doubt it will get better in the future. By my calculation you'd have to have around 10 million dollars banked in a savings account to have the same quality of life as the average Canadian.

I will be honest that I have zero knowledge about Canadian care homes. I have seen several each in the UK, US and Thailand. I would note that my sister for several years worked in a UK nursing home, and I had a great aunt who owned (a different) one. At one point, together with a friend, we were considering a marketing program for retirees needing 24 hour care, advising on Thai options. The quality of the care in the Thai nursing homes is just so much superior. This is due both to the far higher staff to resident ratios, as well as the general attitude of the Thais towards the elderly. I can appreciate that those entitled to free residence in a nursing home in their home countries might have reason to make that choice. If needing to pay, I strongly recommend Thailand. The only negative in terms of quality of life could be distance from loving relatives.

[glegolo]

1 hour ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

Nonsense.

 

Why on earth would you spend your retirement in Thailand instead of having top class Canadian healthcare that will take care of you?

 

My mom is dirt poor in Canada. I bought her a condo (instead of some Thai tart) and now she gets money from the government, free healthcare and heavily discounted meds if she needs them which she does not as she only eats best quality organic food thanks to free government money.

 

I am so fed up with the "quality" healthcare here (which I get for free through my wife) that I'm going back to Toronto this summer to see real and informed doctors. 

 

This place is not good for old people and I doubt it will get better in the future. By my calculation you'd have to have around 10 million dollars banked in a savings account to have the same quality of life as the average Canadian.

 

 

 

I do not like this kind of posting. You take one nice example (Canada) and try to kill off a nice posting where suggested that nursing-homes are quite poor in many countries. I am swede and BritTim is right on the nail,,, So stuff canadian healthcare for now . I am happy for your sake, but do not put down other people postings that is just plain stupid.

 

glegolo

[otherstuff1957]

1 hour ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

Nonsense.

 

Why on earth would you spend your retirement in Thailand instead of having top class Canadian healthcare that will take care of you?

 

My mom is dirt poor in Canada. I bought her a condo (instead of some Thai tart) and now she gets money from the government, free healthcare and heavily discounted meds if she needs them which she does not as she only eats best quality organic food thanks to free government money.

 

I am so fed up with the "quality" healthcare here (which I get for free through my wife) that I'm going back to Toronto this summer to see real and informed doctors. 

 

This place is not good for old people and I doubt it will get better in the future. By my calculation you'd have to have around 10 million dollars banked in a savings account to have the same quality of life as the average Canadian.

 

 

 

Well, you live in a 1st world country with the standard 1st world health care and support for the elderly...    Some of us are from the US.  ?

[scottiejohn]

What has this topic got to do with visas?

If you had not thought about this subject before retiring to Thailand then I think you may be just a bit late now.

Edited June 25, 2018 by scottiejohn

[theguyfromanotherforum]

19 minutes ago, glegolo said:

I do not like this kind of posting. You take one nice example (Canada) and try to kill off a nice posting where suggested that nursing-homes are quite poor in many countries. I am swede and BritTim is right on the nail,,, So stuff canadian healthcare for now . I am happy for your sake, but do not put down other people postings that is just plain stupid.

 

glegolo

 

I don't give a single care if you like it or not. The original poster is Canadian, so my "one nice example" is completely relevant to the subject.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[glegolo]

52 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

I don't give a single care if you like it or not. The original poster is Canadian, so my "one nice example" is completely relevant to the subject.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes you seems to be the guy that do not care about others..... You were answering BRITTIM and he is NOT canadian, so dont be ¤%&%¤,,,,,,  Many western countries are crap when it comes to care of their elderly people.... And to your surprice there are a lot of people reading Thai-VISA and NOT being from Canada....

 

glegolo

Edited June 25, 2018 by glegolo

[theguyfromanotherforum]

9 minutes ago, glegolo said:

Yes you seems to be the guy that do not care about others..... You were answering BRITTIM and he is NOT canadian, so dont be ¤%&%¤,,,,,,  Many western countries are crap when it comes to care of their elderly people.... And to your surprice there are a lot of people reading Thai-VISA and NOT being from Canada....

 

glegolo

 

And "BRITTIM" was replying to a Canadian.

 

Anyway, you seem to be under some grand delusions that Thailand cares about healthcare of the elderly?

 

They care as much as your own country apparently.... as long as you can pay up with the additional hustle of reporting to immigration while in the wheelchair or in coma.

 

What was your point again?

[glegolo]

2 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

And "BRITTIM" was replying to a Canadian.

 

Anyway, you seem to be under some grand delusions that Thailand cares about healthcare of the elderly?

 

They care as much as your own country apparently.... as long as you can pay up with the additional hustle of reporting to immigration while in the wheelchair or in coma.

 

What was your point again?

My point was to straighten you out, which I managed to do, so all good.

 

glegolo

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Just now, glegolo said:

My point was to straighten you out, which I managed to do, so all good.

 

glegolo

 

I have been thought a lesson

[mduras01]

I would make sure I was financially secure. Cost of living is only going up. 

 

I would make sure I had insurance for as long as insurance allows. 

 

I would make sure I had an "anchor"--a reliable wife, son/daughter, companion. Plenty of solid middle/upper class Thais. 

 

It would terrify me not to have an anchor, or someone to love me in my old years, or be strapped for cash when medical expenses mount. But to each their own.

 

 

[bkk6060]

As far as taking care of old people the Filipino's do a better job of it then the Thais.

[poyai111]

Coming to terms with one's mortality is not an easy thing. Resign yourself to the inevitable and to delay it for as long as possible by ignoring it, is the Buddhist way to go. A primary issue is one's state of health, physically and mentally. I am now 74 and am as robust in body and mind as I was 40 years ago. Everything works - without exception. Worthy of mention are: 1) follow a strict physical routine at least 3 times a week for both strength and cardio 2) be moderate in your consumption of food and alcohol. Anything to excess is deleterious to your well being 3) love and be loved 4) exercise your brain - read, communicate and be able to make wise decisions 5) show appreciation and it will be returned tenfold 6) have a clean and painless exit plan

[gintis0604]

14 hours ago, glegolo said:

I do not like this kind of posting. You take one nice example (Canada) and try to kill off a nice posting where suggested that nursing-homes are quite poor in many countries. I am swede and BritTim is right on the nail,,, So stuff canadian healthcare for now . I am happy for your sake, but do not put down other people postings that is just plain stupid.

 

glegolo

I'm also Swede and know how bad old people are treated in Sweden. 

I rather kill myself than go back to that. 

[wwest5829]

14 hours ago, otherstuff1957 said:

Well, you live in a 1st world country with the standard 1st world health care and support for the elderly...    Some of us are from the US.  ?

Right, a goodly number of expats I meet here are, like myself, unable to live in our home countries in retirement due to the higher living costs. I have checked three of the facilities available here in Chiang Mai offering anything from independent living to 24 hour care. Currently, if needed I noted a monthly cost of around 40k baht. If needed, I have a monthly income of 65K that I could sign over in exchange for old age care until I go up the chimney at a local Wat. That approx. $2000 USD just will not get it in the US (a reminder, the only 1st world country without a national healthcare scheme).

[tweedledee2]

13 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

I have been thought a lesson

Thought or taught? The latter you were.

[newnative]

17 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

Nonsense.

 

Why on earth would you spend your retirement in Thailand instead of having top class Canadian healthcare that will take care of you?

 

My mom is dirt poor in Canada. I bought her a condo (instead of some Thai tart) and now she gets money from the government, free healthcare and heavily discounted meds if she needs them which she does not as she only eats best quality organic food thanks to free government money.

 

I am so fed up with the "quality" healthcare here (which I get for free through my wife) that I'm going back to Toronto this summer to see real and informed doctors. 

 

This place is not good for old people and I doubt it will get better in the future. By my calculation you'd have to have around 10 million dollars banked in a savings account to have the same quality of life as the average Canadian.

 

 

 

Nice if you are Canadian.  Most of us aren't.  

[Srikcir]

16 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

so my "one nice example" is completely relevant to the subject.

It's not a relevant example as it applies to a Canadian citizen.

The question was "How does one plan for very old age as an expat in LOS?"

My bold emphasis.

So to be informative in the comparison to Canada, how well does an expat in Canada live at a very old age?

Can an expat can get 100% access to Canadian healthcare as does a Canadian?

[newnative]

     As an American, I know I won't be able to afford to live in a quality nursing home in America should I reach the age where I need to be in such a facility.  My mother is in a nursing home in America and her monthly care charge is much more than my monthly retirement income.

      In thinking ahead, my partner and I have just moved into a 3 bedroom/3 bath condo. Currently the second bedroom is a gym/office and the 3rd bedroom is a guest bedroom.  If we reach advanced years and need assistance, we will hire live-in help and the 3rd bedroom with bath will be ready for this person.  The condo is paid for and we will be able to afford this live-in help, which will also allow us to remain in our home rather than move to a nursing home.

[fantom]

There are options other than assuming one travels on a trajectory that automatically assumes one ends up in some sort of care home.

 

My professional working life has long involved adapting home living and assisting people to continue living at home even with profound disabilities and frailty.

There are some considerations for people to think about:

 

1. Condominiums and houses can usually be easily adapted for disabled living so long as there is good access to the outside.

2. The biggest expence is not usually medical care, it is day to day stuff like shopping, cooking, maybe dressing, showering etc.

Consider regular home help / cleaner and if/ as things progress a housekeeper, certainly a damned sight cheaper here.

 

Finally, quality of life should be the first consideration.

 

[fantom]

Newnative you wrote at the same time as I, you have thought about it and planned well. Best wishes.

[Mansell]

2 hours ago, poyai111 said:

Coming to terms with one's mortality is not an easy thing. Resign yourself to the inevitable and to delay it for as long as possible by ignoring it, is the Buddhist way to go. A primary issue is one's state of health, physically and mentally. I am now 74 and am as robust in body and mind as I was 40 years ago. Everything works - without exception. Worthy of mention are: 1) follow a strict physical routine at least 3 times a week for both strength and cardio 2) be moderate in your consumption of food and alcohol. Anything to excess is deleterious to your well being 3) love and be loved 4) exercise your brain - read, communicate and be able to make wise decisions 5) show appreciation and it will be returned tenfold 6) have a clean and painless exit plan

I am the same age as you, with pretty much the same philosophy on health etc. I was out riding the bicycle for two hours this morning through the rice fields which gives me exercise and peace of mind. You and I are the lucky ones, I do understand that many are not as blessed as us in the health department. A good positive mental attitude is also important. I also have a 42 year young lady with two boys 12 and 8 which do keep you on your toes.....but life could be boring without them. Enjoy it all.

[Mansell]

2 hours ago, poyai111 said:

Coming to terms with one's mortality is not an easy thing. Resign yourself to the inevitable and to delay it for as long as possible by ignoring it, is the Buddhist way to go. A primary issue is one's state of health, physically and mentally. I am now 74 and am as robust in body and mind as I was 40 years ago. Everything works - without exception. Worthy of mention are: 1) follow a strict physical routine at least 3 times a week for both strength and cardio 2) be moderate in your consumption of food and alcohol. Anything to excess is deleterious to your well being 3) love and be loved 4) exercise your brain - read, communicate and be able to make wise decisions 5) show appreciation and it will be returned tenfold 6) have a clean and painless exit plan

I am the same age as you, with pretty much the same philosophy on health etc. I was out riding the bicycle for two hours this morning through the rice fields which gives me exercise and peace of mind. You and I are the lucky ones, I do understand that many are not as blessed as us in the health department. A good positive mental attitude is also important. I also have a 42 year young lady with two boys 12 and 8 which do keep you on your toes.....but life could be boring without them. Enjoy it all.

[jossthaifarang]

For starters you are going to need a woman that's willing to help when you shit the bed, your pants and all over the bathroom floor, next your going to need enough money to keep her loyal and fed. Lastly, she will have to be young enough to ensure you don't both end up shitting the bed..

 

You should probably have some sort of exit strategy when you get into the very old range, either end up with relatives or in an old persons home in your home country..

 

That's my 10 cents anyway..

[newnative]

32 minutes ago, fantom said:

Newnative you wrote at the same time as I, you have thought about it and planned well. Best wishes.

Thanks!  Best wishes to you, too.

[bkk6060]

Most people I have met here have no plan for nothing.

 

No health insurance.

No plan if they are incapacitated.

No plan for long term care.

No plan for their death.

No will or trust.

 

These are people that have decent money but generally seem it is all not important.

The most common answer I get is so naive which is: My Embassy will take care of everything.

 

 

 

[seancbk]

18 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

Nonsense.

 

Why on earth would you spend your retirement in Thailand instead of having top class Canadian healthcare that will take care of you?

 

My mom is dirt poor in Canada. I bought her a condo (instead of some Thai tart) and now she gets money from the government, free healthcare and heavily discounted meds if she needs them which she does not as she only eats best quality organic food thanks to free government money.

 

I am so fed up with the "quality" healthcare here (which I get for free through my wife) that I'm going back to Toronto this summer to see real and informed doctors. 

 

This place is not good for old people and I doubt it will get better in the future. By my calculation you'd have to have around 10 million dollars banked in a savings account to have the same quality of life as the average Canadian.

 

 

 

 

I'd hazard a guess that most forum members would struggle to get Canadian citizenship in time to take advantage of this amazing Canadian healthcare.

 

[OzMan]

Unless you have a lot of money and do not need to rely on the Government, the Australian home for the age system is dreadful. I would prefer to spend my remaining years in Thailand. A good question has been asked and it deserves some serious replies. Also, I am a Canadian (as well as Australian) having lived in Toronto for many years. OHIP, the Ontario health insurance plan, used to be good but is now severely underfunded and not very good.