How to survive out of Thailand Alive in legal way?

[greenchair]

39 minutes ago, VonDutch said:

The biggest challenge to do any good survival plan is that also "official" information from people who "know" is every day changing. How you can then plan to do anything when you really don't know what is happening, even professionals don't know or also their information is changing.

I have been example told that I get bail money immediately back after court. Now information is opposite: to bank account after 3-4 weeks. I have been told that about bail, I don't have to go to court to ask it, just show to the police, make the deal, papers, and go 3 weeks on freedom to wait. Now like you said, information again is totally opposite.

This bail money thing seems to be really risky and complicated that I can maybe lose all, so I think I can't take that risk and better wait in jail 3 weeks and try to get medicines anyhow in...

If you pay the bail money directly to the court you won't have any problem at all. 

I don't understandwhy your lawyer is telling you to give it to the police. 

How do they know what your bail is? 

The only one that can order that you pay bail is the judge. And he must write that on an official document. After the judge gives the bail condition, you will be kept in a holding cell until a trusted friend has paid the bail. But I think you can also do it yourself. 

At the court. 

What you should do is go to the court and ask for someone that speaks English. Then ask about your case. 

[greenchair]

Did you make a statement at the police station? 

[greenchair]

You really should change your wording from I stole the bike to I borrowed the bike. 

[jackdd]

I didn't read all the 11 pages, but if i were in exactly your situation and wouldn't want to come back to Thailand ever again: I would research which of the neighbouring countries has the easiest deportation laws, and then i would flee Thailand to one of the neighbouring countries

[VonDutch]

38 minutes ago, greenchair said:

If you pay the bail money directly to the court you won't have any problem at all. 

I don't understandwhy your lawyer is telling you to give it to the police. 

How do they know what your bail is? 

The only one that can order that you pay bail is the judge. And he must write that on an official document. After the judge gives the bail condition, you will be kept in a holding cell until a trusted friend has paid the bail. But I think you can also do it yourself. 

At the court. 

What you should do is go to the court and ask for someone that speaks English. Then ask about your case. 

Thanks for reply.
"If you pay the bail money directly to the court you won't have any problem at all."

If the information - that they don't give bail money back, but they send it to you to your bank account in 3-4 weeks - is right, then it's huge problem, because then no enough money to pay court penalty fee and if no cash, then they change fee to jail penalty.

I think I can survive somehow 3 weeks in jail waiting for court. It seems to be only change, because no any change to take any risk and lose 100 000 bail money, only money what can safe the situation: penalty fee, visa overstay fee, lawyer fee, return ticket to home and other fees.

[VonDutch]

40 minutes ago, greenchair said:

You really should change your wording from I stole the bike to I borrowed the bike. 

Yes. I try it. Many said already that there is no any "borrowed" thing here. They are not interested about any reason or background stories, just what you did. So, I stole the bike and if in court I try to say anything else, then the penalty is more serious. 

[FritsSikkink]

4 hours ago, VonDutch said:

Not in this case. Ask many times.

So why not in this case?

[FritsSikkink]

Why should you pay bail? You are not in a police cell or in court. Looks like the lawyer or the police is giving you wrong info, as you are still a free man. Everyday passing is getting you closer to the court day.

[VonDutch]

1 hour ago, greenchair said:

Did you make a statement at the police station? 

Yes. I said that I took the bicycle and I'm guilty and lawyer said that best idea ever. If there is security camera evidence that you took it and say: "I'm not guilty", then more penalty.

[VonDutch]

25 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Why should you pay bail? You are not in a police cell or in court. Looks like the lawyer or the police is giving you wrong info, as you are still a free man. Everyday passing is getting you closer to the court day.

Yes. I didn't go the court with reasons in the original post, so I'm not a "free man". because police and Immigration police are looking for me. I don't have Passport and I'm illegally in country, because 90 days visa overstay. Best idea is to go police by free will, because many have said that then penalty is not so serious than if they get me in some check point. 

When I go there, they will rest me, then I have opportunity to pay bail money. That's why I'm asking information about it that can prepare survival plan.

Edited June 29, 2018 by VonDutch

[VonDutch]

36 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

So why not in this case?

All ready reply that before.

[balo]

49 minutes ago, VonDutch said:

Yes. I try it. Many said already that there is no any "borrowed" thing here. They are not interested about any reason or background stories, just what you did.

Who are they ?  

 

If you stick to your story , that you were afraid and had to run and "borrow" the bike to get away from being attacked, most people will understand that , even Thais. 

 

I would never hand over 100k to any lawyer here, because many of them can't be trusted. Do you trust this lawyer? Why can't you just give us his name ?

 

Maybe we can check if the lawyer has a good or bad reputation . 

 

You should have never returned to Chiang Mai, you should have stayed in Bangkok and talked to another lawyer there and look for other solutions to get you out of Thailand. 

 

I have a feeling that the locals are trying to milk you for money  .  Your crime was to steal a bicycle and get drunk and get involved in a fight . You don't get a long prison sentence for that unless illegal drugs were involved.   

 

I would get back to Bangkok asap and talk to another lawyer. 

 

 

 

 

 

[CLW]

Yes. I did't go the court with reasons in the original post, so I'm not a "free man". because police and Immigration police are looking for me. I don't have even Passport and I'm illegally in country, because 90 days visa overstay. Best idea is to go police by free will, because many have said that then penalty is not so serious than if they get me in some check point. 

When I go there, they will rest me, then I have opportunity to pay bail money. That's why I'm asking information about it that can prepare survival plan.

If there is a court order and you are awaiting trial, then there is no overstay.
Few posters have mentioned this already.
Why do you not go to a hospital or doctor to certify your mental illness?
Or get some documents from your home countries' doctor.
You are not illegally in the country just because you have lost your passport.
Try to get the other things beside your theft accusation in order!

[Rc2702]

Just now, VonDutch said:

All ready reply that before.

Dutch can't you just blend in and escape to a border country and get the hell out of dodge and never return?

[VonDutch]

10 hours ago, Ks45672 said:

He could Go to a small bkk police station and probably get it and they wouldn't be aware of the fight in Chang mai yet

 

 

I, somebody or we all can go to past, put past is not going to change.

Also in that moment I get info that no any sense to report Passport stolen, because to get new one you have anyway go to Immigration to get stamps when they get you (police already looking then) or if some miracle not, the information that I was not in court is in airports and borders, so no any possibility to go out of the country. My plan all the time is to go legal way, also then in panic without money, so I did't newer even think any illegal way.

Now it's Now and I'm looking right information that I can prepare my self and fight the way to home. The "street fight" was not in Chiang Mai, it was in Pai. 

[gaff]

26 minutes ago, Rc2702 said:

Dutch can't you just blend in and escape to a border country and get the hell out of dodge and never return?

 

Yes, it's so easy to cross to CAmbodia by land then go to his embassy and report passport lost to get a travel document to go back to his homecountry.

This is why the story is so fishy...

 

 

[gaff]

19 minutes ago, VonDutch said:

I, somebody or we all can go to past, put past is not going to change.

Also in that moment I get info that no any sense to report Passport stolen, because to get new one you have anyway go to Immigration to get stamps when they get you (police already looking then) or if some miracle not, the information that I was not in court is in airports and borders, so no any possibility to go out of the country. My plan all the time is to go legal way, also then in panic without money, so I did't newer even think any illegal way.

Now it's Now and I'm looking right information that I can prepare my self and fight the way to home. The "street fight" was not in Chiang Mai, it was in Pai. 

 

 

YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN.

 

Your EU country embassy anywhere will give you a document to allow you to go back home, and you do no need a passport or any stamp.

 

It was so easy to solve this problem, but you keep looking for more problems.

 

You will be jailed 2 years at least.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, gaff said:

 

Yes, it's so easy to cross to CAmbodia by land then go to his embassy and report passport lost to get a travel document to go back to his homecountry.

This is why the story is so fishy...

Right, and

• telling the Cambodian police how your passport was lost, so you can get the required police report, will probably be OK if you are a good liar; but
• explaining how you are in Cambodia with the Cambodian immigration having no record of your entry is going to be tough to explain away. I cannot see how you are going to get a Cambodian exit stamp, except possibly by bribery which you might just as well try in Thailand.

What you suggest would almost certainly lead to him being returned to Thailand, eventually, having been processed for his illegal entry to Cambodia.

[greenchair]

I am shocked to see the penalty for theft is 3 years prison and a 6 thousand baht fine. 

If you wait I will read my law books. 

There's a law that says if you were forced to do a criminal act in order to protect yourself or flee from a dangerous situation, then you are not guilty. 

The problem is you would have to prove you were chased and beaten. You would need either 1 witness or you should have a letter that explains how you lost your passport. 

[Vacuum]

7 hours ago, gaff said:

You will be jailed 2 years at least.

For "stealing" a bicycle? I don't think so.

[LolaS]

9 hours ago, greenchair said:

I am shocked to see the penalty for theft is 3 years prison and a 6 thousand baht fine. 

If you wait I will read my law books. 

There's a law that says if you were forced to do a criminal act in order to protect yourself or flee from a dangerous situation, then you are not guilty. 

The problem is you would have to prove you were chased and beaten. You would need either 1 witness or you should have a letter that explains how you lost your passport. 

please, we is bating you, I just checked with Dutch embassy about this story, because I work there part time.

and no! nothing to do with it. this is fake situation. never happend

[Nemises]

please, we is bating you, I just checked with Dutch embassy about this story, because I work there part time.
and no! nothing to do with it. this is fake situation. never happend

Sure is fake. I know because I offered the guy money but he didn’t respond.

[gaff]

13 hours ago, BritTim said:

Right, and

• telling the Cambodian police how your passport was lost, so you can get the required police report, will probably be OK if you are a good liar; but
• explaining how you are in Cambodia with the Cambodian immigration having no record of your entry is going to be tough to explain away. I cannot see how you are going to get a Cambodian exit stamp, except possibly by bribery which you might just as well try in Thailand.

What you suggest would almost certainly lead to him being returned to Thailand, eventually, having been processed for his illegal entry to Cambodia.

 

 

It seems that you really do not know Cambodia and Thailand.

 

Of course it is a lot less risky to bribe in Cambodia and to go back to your own country.

 

And what even if immigration find that he is in Cambodia illegally ? They just send him back to his own country as they have no evidence that he comes from Thailand.

 

For sure you would be in the same problems as him if it happened to you, when I am sure that I would have sold this in less than a week.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[greenchair]

26 minutes ago, Gregster said:

 

Sure is fake. I know because I offered the guy money but he didn’t respond.

 

Why would you offer him money? 

[gaff]

50 minutes ago, LolaS said:

please, we is bating you, I just checked with Dutch embassy about this story, because I work there part time.

and no! nothing to do with it. this is fake situation. never happend

 

he is not dutch he is French.

 

 

[greenchair]

34 minutes ago, Gregster said:

 

Sure is fake. I know because I offered the guy money but he didn’t respond.

 

Why would you offer him money? 

[greenchair]

I don't think this is fake at all. 

It's not funny. 

334 in the criminal code says theft is punishable by up to 3 years in prison and a fine of 6000. 

You could actually go to prison for stealing a pencil in Thailand. And stealing at night has an added 1 to 5 years with 2 to 10000 baht fine. 

This guy is facing 1 to 5 years in prison depending on the judge. We've not heard from him in a while. He might already be locked up. But his lawyer has advised him extremely badly. 

[greenchair]

Now I understand why Thais don't steal. 

[CLW]

I don't think this is fake at all. 
It's not funny. 
334 in the criminal code says theft is punishable by up to 3 years in prison and a fine of 6000. 
You could actually go to prison for stealing a pencil in Thailand. And stealing at night has an added 1 to 5 years with 2 to 10000 baht fine. 
This guy is facing 1 to 5 years in prison depending on the judge. We've not heard from him in a while. He might already be locked up. But his lawyer has advised him extremely badly. 

That is quite serious.
Anyway in this case or generally when foreigners involved in petty crimes.
Why not let them pay a fine and then deport them with ban from re-entering the country.
I see the current process costing the state a lot more.

[greenchair]

11 minutes ago, CLW said:

That is quite serious.
Anyway in this case or generally when foreigners involved in petty crimes.
Why not let them pay a fine and then deport them with ban from re-entering the country.
I see the current process costing the state a lot more.

It depends how much trouble the police want to make. It seems they do want to make trouble for him or they would have just let him pay the bicycle guy.