West has judged Prayut – soon it’s our turn

[webfact]

West has judged Prayut – soon it’s our turn

By The Nation

 

 

Critics of the junta left dismayed by his warm reception in France and Britain should remember there’s an election coming

 

Critics of Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha may have been highly disappointed to find that the junta leader was formally welcomed by leading Western democracies during his recent official visits to the United Kingdom and France.

 

After returning to Thailand on Tuesday, General Prayut boasted about the “honourable welcome” he received while in Britain and France during his weeklong visit. It was an important trip that allowed him to meet with UK Prime Minister Theresa May and French President Emmanuel Macron, in addition to many local business people and company executives.

 

For the junta and its supporters, Prayut’s latest overseas trip pointed to acceptance from the two world powers that once strongly criticised the 2014 coup he led and opposed the military-led administration he formed a few months afterwards. The junta leader’s trip was like a victory for the regime.

 

But for the junta’s opponents and critics, this trip revealed “true colours” of the Western powers, which condemn dictatorial regimes while receiving a coup leader and non-elected prime minister. They wered disappointed that both France and Britain seemed to prioritise their national interests above democratic principles and human rights.

 

The Thai junta obviously has benefits to offer the European nations Prayut visited. These include a chance to sell their products such as space satellites, possible trade deals with Thailand, further access to other member-countries of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean) through Thailand, and investment opportunities in the Eastern Economic Corridor industrial project.

 

Critics of the junta cannot wholeheartedly rely on Western countries to pressure Prayut to do as they would like. They should realise that virtually all countries in the world are supposed to pursue their foreign policies based on their own national interests. Policy-makers with integrity always place how their country benefits over other factors, even the level of democracy or human rights records of any country with which they’re dealing. 

 

We cannot expect Thailand’s politics to be changed through pressure from foreign powers or the international community. Political changes should rather be made through the ballot box.

 

The next general election has been promised to take place in the first half of next year, sometime between February and May. We as voters can make changes for the better at that time, by supporting the candidates and political parties we sincerely believe will bring improvements to the country.

 

Yes, there will be a lot of candidates and parties available to be chosen. And most of them – if not all – will be far from perfect.

 

Most politicians and parties currently offering themselves as choices for voters have different degrees of tainted history and questionable backgrounds. They are accused of involvement in corruption scandals, being responsible for violent protest crackdowns, supporting dictatorships or coup-makers, and being linked to dirty political players, among other things. 

 

Without perfect choices, what voters should do is to opt for the least or lesser of the evils being offered.

 

The election must be free and fair. And the authorities involved must ensure an environment that allows voters to cast their ballots freely and the voting to be conducted fairly.

 

Also, voters need to make decisions based on good conscience, with an aim to bettering the country and benefiting its people, and not just grab the immediate rewards offered them for selfish purposes.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/opinion/30348795

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-06-28

[tomta]

A complete waste of space, white washing, wish thinking, soft soaping, kow towing and head bowing article.

[Odysseus123]

5 minutes ago, tomta said:

A complete waste of space, white washing, wish thinking, soft soaping, kow towing and head bowing article.

True..

..and incoherent to boot-a sort of intellectual "Gumbyism"* which does appear quite prevalent in Thailand.

*Gumby was a toy from my childhood-you could bend the figure into any shape you wanted..

Edited June 27, 2018 by Odysseus123

[mok199]

that's 4 minutes of my life I wont get back.....

[Thaiwrath]

47 minutes ago, webfact said:

General Prayut boasted about the “honourable welcome” he received while in Britain and France during his weeklong visit.

All that proves is that they have manners, especially when in the public eye.

If you think it means they think the sun shines out of your arse, you are as daft as I thought you were !

Edited June 27, 2018 by Thaiwrath

[mejomini]

Wake up, this is the real world. France and England leaders are realists. 

[Samui Bodoh]

With respect to the first couple of posters, the editorial is essentially correct. By accepting a visit, the UK and France did actually give an informal seal of approval (which is very different from an endorsement) and the trip was a win for the Junta.

 

The fact that it makes me want to vomit on the first Brit and/or Frenchman I see doesn't change that.

 

That said, the editorial also points out that it is the Thai people's responsibility to get rid of the regime, and that is also true. Yes, it is better and easier if there is outside pressure and/or assistance, but ultimately it is a Thai problem which requires a Thai solution.

 

"...We cannot expect Thailand’s politics to be changed through pressure from foreign powers or the international community. Political changes should rather be made through the ballot box..."

 

The Thai people have the ability to enact change in the country (see modern Thai history), the question(s) at the moment is whether they have the will and what methods will they use if they do.

 

And, as frustrating as it is, we are merely witnesses to the process...

 

ARGHHHHH!

 

Edited June 27, 2018 by Samui Bodoh
Lack of coffee

[Odysseus123]

8 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

With respect to the first couple of posters, the editorial is essentially correct. By accepting a visit, the UK and France did actually give an informal seal of approval (which is very different from an endorsement) and the trip was a win for the Junta.

 

The fact that it makes me want to vomit on the first Brit and/or Frenchman I see doesn't change that.

 

That said, the editorial also points out that it is the Thai people's responsibility to get rid of the regime, and that is also true. Yes, it is better and easier if there is outside pressure and/or assistance, but ultimately it is a Thai problem which requires a Thai solution.

 

"...We cannot expect Thailand’s politics to be changed through pressure from foreign powers or the international community. Political changes should rather be made through the ballot box..."

 

The Thai people have the ability to enact change in the country (see modern Thai history), the question(s) at the moment is whether they have the will and what methods will they use if they do.

 

And, as frustrating as it is, we are merely witnesses to the process...

 

ARGHHHHH!

 

Do you really wish to vomit on the first Brit or Froggy that you see?(rhetorical)

 

Because the vast majority of Brits,Froggies,Aussies etc could not give a flying echidna for the place.The West  has no such responsibility for assisting in the present regime's departure.

 

As you say-it is a Thai problem which indicates that they will probably come up with some sort of Thai solution.

 

It may not be a solution that I might like-but,hey,it's not my country.

 

The hypothetical "vote" is a perfect sham and the editor should recognize this.

[Samui Bodoh]

21 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Do you really wish to vomit on the first Brit or Froggy that you see?(rhetorical)

 

Because the vast majority of Brits,Froggies,Aussies etc could not give a flying echidna for the place.The West  has no such responsibility for assisting in the present regime's departure.

 

As you say-it is a Thai problem which indicates that they will probably come up with some sort of Thai solution.

 

It may not be a solution that I might like-but,hey,it's not my country.

 

The hypothetical "vote" is a perfect sham and the editor should recognize this.

Okay, perhaps "vomit" is too strong a word, but I am disgusted that the UK and the French governments allowed a visit by Prayut; there was no over-riding reason for them to do so. And, as they had no over-riding reason to do so, it was a de facto recognition of the Junta and a 'win' for the Junta. I think they were wrong to do it.

 

We will have to agree to disagree on this.

 

"...The hypothetical "vote" is a perfect sham and the editor should recognize this..."

 

Respectfully, we don't know this yet. Now, before anyone starts screaming at me, there is little doubt that the Junta wants a sham vote and will do everything in their power to get it, but that doesn't mean that they will be successful or that it will turn out the way they want. My point is simply that the game is not over; the game is underway. 

 

If we all give up now before the game begins, then the Junta wins by default.

 

Many here believe that the Thai people are simply going to accept this without question; I am not willing to say that now. Modern Thai history is replete with examples of Thai people fighting for justice/political rights and they may well do so again successfully. Or they might fail.

 

We don't know yet. It will be interesting to watch, if not a bit frustrating.

 

[tracker1]

With Britain and France with his so called "Honourable Welcome" it will build his ego even more and take it as an approval of the juntas ruleing the country. I think we know what the result of that will be 

Edited June 28, 2018 by tracker1

[grumbleweed]

If Prayuth is claiming success, the British and French must be absolutely cartwheeling. 

 

Through intelligence, they probably know what Le Moron is thinking before he does. Their empires weren't build on luck or benevolence. Thailand, under any rule, must have strategic importance. Unless you think his irresistible charming personality was behind the invitations.

 

You can accuse both countries of many things, but altruism isn't one of them. They've probably noticed how they can influence future developments to their benefit. Contrary to popular belief, bombs and bullets aren't the only method of persuasion.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2018 by grumbleweed

[Odysseus123]

6 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Okay, perhaps "vomit" is too strong a word, but I am disgusted that the UK and the French governments allowed a visit by Prayut; there was no over-riding reason for them to do so. And, as they had no over-riding reason to do so, it was a de facto recognition of the Junta and a 'win' for the Junta. I think they were wrong to do it.

 

We will have to agree to disagree on this.

 

"...The hypothetical "vote" is a perfect sham and the editor should recognize this..."

 

Respectfully, we don't know this yet. Now, before anyone starts screaming at me, there is little doubt that the Junta wants a sham vote and will do everything in their power to get it, but that doesn't mean that they will be successful or that it will turn out the way they want. My point is simply that the game is not over; the game is underway. 

 

If we all give up now before the game begins, then the Junta wins by default.

 

Many here believe that the Thai people are simply going to accept this without question; I am not willing to say that now. Modern Thai history is replete with examples of Thai people fighting for justice/political rights and they may well do so again successfully. Or they might fail.

 

We don't know yet. It will be interesting to watch, if not a bit frustrating.

 

Samui,

 

I agree with the general thrust of your arguments but there a few I would like to query,if I may...

 

Firstly-by continuing to trade with Thailand the West has always-in sense-recognized the present gov'ts existence.

 

Secondly I think that there is a bit of blaming going on here "a look what you did!" mentality-I saw that many times in Thailand so I think that the Thai have to own it if they perceive they have a problem.I have never witnessed the Thai elites "owning"up to anything..but that's just me.Your experiences might be different.

 

Thirdly-I doubt that overseas trips really legitimize anything much because Thailand is the centre of the universe anyway.The "legitimacy" comes from the usual triad of power and not much else.

 

Fourthly-I guess that we will have to see who may be more correct on the election front..

 

I hope that you have a good day,

Ody.

[neeray]

8 minutes ago, grumbleweed said:

If Prayuth is claiming success, the British and French must be absolutely cartwheeling. 

 

Through intelligence, they probably know what Le Moron is thinking before he does. Their empires weren't build on luck or benevolence. Thailand, under any rule, must have strategic importance. Unless you think his irresistible charming personality was behind the invitations.

 

You can accuse both countries of many things, but altruism isn't one of them. They've probably noticed how they can influence future developments to their benefit. Contrary to popular belief, bombs and bullets aren't the only method of persuasion.

 

 

As the love affair with America under trump winds down, UK and France are undoubtedly looking to build other strengths. Why not Thailand?

[Samui Bodoh]

2 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Samui,

 

I agree with the general thrust of your arguments but there a few I would like to query,if I may...

 

Firstly-by continuing to trade with Thailand the West has always-in sense-recognized the present gov'ts existence.

 

Secondly I think that there is a bit of blaming going on here "a look what you did!" mentality-I saw that many times in Thailand so I think that the Thai have to own it if they perceive they have a problem.I have never witnessed the Thai elites "owning"up to anything..but that's just me.Your experiences might be different.

 

Thirdly-I doubt that overseas trips really legitimize anything much because Thailand is the centre of the universe anyway.The "legitimacy" comes from the usual triad of power and not much else.

 

Fourthly-I guess that we will have to see who may be more correct on the election front..

 

I hope that you have a good day,

Ody.

I guess that I see trade and diplomatic recognition/engagement as slightly different creatures. Trade, unless there is some huge dislocation, can continue. Diplomatic recognition is another matter; it is a conscious choice. Respectfully, I think that the UK and the French made the wrong choice. Agree to disagree.

 

Forgive me, but I do not understand the second point.

 

Third. Yes, Thailand is the 'center of the universe', but I do believe that the recognition bestowed by the UK and France matters. Thais may say that it doesn't matter, but I believe that Thais care deeply about what the West thinks. The history of Thailand for the last... 60 years or so has been tied closely to the West; that does not go away quickly or at all. I think having visited the UK and France has given Prayut and his cronies a big shot in the arm, in their minds and in the minds of others as well; again, lets agree to disagree.

 

Fourth. I think we agree much more than we disagree. I do not wish to put words in your mouth, but it seems like you have no hope whereas I have a slight bit of hope. I know I am repeating myself, but lets agree to disagree.

 

I hope you have a wonderful day as well!

 

Cheers

[Lungstib]

They didn't judge him, they just did business with him. Thats Western politics these days, driven by the need to do deals. These countries are best buddies with Saudi Arabia, which gives you a good idea of where their allegiance lies when it comes to democracy, morality and decency.

[JonnyF]

Thailand needs to decide what it wants. One minute they want foreigners to stay out of Thai politics and mind their own business. The next minute they want foreign support removing/undermining this regime.

 

The fact is, it is up to the Thai people to sort out the current mess, and it won't happen by sitting on their hands and pretending they are not interested as they have for the last 4 years. Of course foreign powers will "prioritize their national interests" - you think Thailand would put their national interests to one side to help remove a Junta 10,000 kms away? They wouldn't give a toss, so why should they expect different from anyone else?

[Odysseus123]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Thailand needs to decide what it wants. One minute they want foreigners to stay out of Thai politics and mind their own business. The next minute they want foreign support removing/undermining this regime.

 

The fact is, it is up to the Thai people to sort out the current mess, and it won't happen by sitting on their hands and pretending they are not interested as they have for the last 4 years. Of course foreign powers will "prioritize their national interests" - you think Thailand would put their national interests to one side to help remove a Junta 10,000 kms away? They wouldn't give a toss, so why should they expect different from anyone else?

Thank you.

You put it much better than what I did!

[klauskunkel]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

Critics of the junta left dismayed by his warm reception in France and Britain should remember there’s an election coming

One should also remember that the junta reneged the election six times already. They have no credibility.

[robblok]

People are making more out of it then there is they will kow tow to Prayut and Thaksin both not examples of good leadership.. I am sure they also entertained the previous Malaysian president who is so corrupt as they can get. Trade is far more important then what someone has done. They are not police they don't care as long as your not doing stuff like in Myanmar they will keep things good. They kept things with Putin good too trade wise. Why would they single out Prayut. Not because some disgruntled foreigners here want it so badly. 

 

I don't like the guy but he is no worse then the rest the west trades with. I believe the US does a lot of trading in the Middle East its not like they are all angels there either. 

 

Trade rules, democracy in other countries comes second. The people in the west don't care they care about how good their economy does and how much money they get every month.

[Odysseus123]

2 minutes ago, klauskunkel said:

One should also remember that the junta reneged the election six times already. They have no credibility.

Well..I guess that 65 million Thais should just say to the present gov't..

 

"don't Thai me..."

[robblok]

13 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Thailand needs to decide what it wants. One minute they want foreigners to stay out of Thai politics and mind their own business. The next minute they want foreign support removing/undermining this regime.

 

The fact is, it is up to the Thai people to sort out the current mess, and it won't happen by sitting on their hands and pretending they are not interested as they have for the last 4 years. Of course foreign powers will "prioritize their national interests" - you think Thailand would put their national interests to one side to help remove a Junta 10,000 kms away? They wouldn't give a toss, so why should they expect different from anyone else?

Thailand decides what it wants based on what is said by the foreigners it has always been that way and will always be that way. If its supportive of what they want they like the foreigners otherwise they should stay out of the politics. Same all over the world not a Thai thing.

[JAG]

2 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

The fact that it makes me want to vomit on the first Brit and/or Frenchman I see doesn't change that.

Steady on, I seem to recall a recent visit to Washington and a meeting with one President Donald "how are the bonespurs today" Trump!

[pornprong]

2 hours ago, mejomini said:

Wake up, this is the real world. France and England leaders are realists. 

Realists or just interested in selling weapons?

 

[Expatthailover]

Country was headed for civil war with prayut thanks to shinawatra and his/her cronies premanently sucking at the trough.

Of course things arent perfect , they arent anywhere in the world.

Corruption is endemic around the globe. The uk financial hub is regarded as the worlds premier illegal money parking place. There's a reason so many rich russians go to live there.

Trump is setting an example for greed, nastiness and disdain never previous seen in a leader of the world.

Living in thailand is easy unless you are in a perfect state of unhappiness.

[SmartyMarty]

Hardly surprising given May wasn't voted in by a general election and Macron styles himself on Napoleon.

[Cadbury]

I didn't have much complaint about the article; it said it as it was. Alas, it might not have been what TVN readers wanted to hear.

Perhaps Prayut was not as successful as he likes to brag about. Both the UK and France outwardly observed diplomatic courtesies but it is what they think inside is what counts.

So far as the UK is concerned all he got from them was a well deserved lecture about democracy, human rights and free and fair elections. The international press gave that the publicity it deserved. Aside from that he left empty handed. 

On the other hand, recent history has shown that France and Thailand have something in common which may give them a bond. They are both white flag wavers when the going gets tough.

Outwardly France was a lot warmer for good reason. Being the economic prostitutes they are, like all EU members, they were rubbing their hands at the opportunity to make some money out of him. He is easy pickings because all he wants is his dreams like the Eastern Economic Corridor fulfilled. He would sell his mother to achieve that. Conning him and his boys into buying an expensive toy satellite would have been easy. The French envelopes would have been irresistible. 

Behind the scenes It is hard to know what they think. They could understandably think he is just a fool with an oversized ego, who knows? That doesn't really matter so long as they can screw him over while laying on the French charm and giving him the car salesman smile.

I expect he has sold part of the farm, come back with empty pockets and a head the size of a watermelon.

[pornprong]

3 minutes ago, Expatthailover said:

Country was headed for civil war with prayut thanks to shinawatra and his/her cronies premanently sucking at the trough.

No.

The country was headed towards an election thanks to Yingluck.

 

Suthep, in partnership with Prayuth, tried to forment a civil war to prevent an election which they knew they would surely lose.

Politicians come and go, the only ones permanently at the trough are the elites and the military.

 

So.......you are entirely wrong.

 

3 minutes ago, Expatthailover said:

Of course things arent perfect , they arent anywhere in the world.

Corruption is endemic around the globe. The uk financial hub is regarded as the worlds premier illegal money parking place. There's a reason so many rich russians go to live there.

Trump is setting an example for greed, nastiness and disdain never previous seen in a leader of the world.

Living in thailand is easy unless you are in a perfect state of unhappiness.

Good to know the coup is working out for you.

Any sympathy or empathy for the Thai people and what they are forced to endure or is it all just about what's good for you?

[Eric Loh]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

West has judged Prayut – soon it’s our turn

It was a business trip and that's how UK and France see it. He went to UK to sell his EEC project and begs for investments. Then he went to France as a customer and bought the satellite. He trip include few heavyweight companies like Thai Beverage, PTT and ThaiAir and achieved nothing worthwhile; not even MOUs. Of course he gets the usual head of state welcome and he will be judged by what he achieved and there really no worthy mention of his achievements in the local or foreign media.   

[Eric Loh]

29 minutes ago, Expatthailover said:

Country was headed for civil war with prayut thanks to shinawatra and his/her cronies premanently sucking at the trough.

 

Never gets out of fashion that imaginary civil war. 

[lanista]

Australia's PM also met with the creep but thats the reality of the world today.Coup leader or not it doesnt matter anymore.

Democracy or whatever you want to call it died years ago and has been replaced with corporations owning the two party system.

Us lemmings get to vote once every few years or more in a rigged two horse race called an election.

You dont embarrass political leaders regardless of whether they're elected or not. Free trade agreements and future deals including arms sales take precedence over what is right or not.