Put your cards on the table, EU makes last Brexit call to Britain

[kwilco]

Once Brexit has fallen flat on it's face, I d like to see as many Brexiteers as possible tried and imprisoned for treason.

[tebee]

16 hours ago, The Renegade said:

Only 2 things on the ballot paper.

 

Vote leave 

 

Or 

 

Vote remain

 

More chose to vote leave, regardless of what they had read, understood or thought might happen.

 

And as most leavers were over 45, it can be assumed that they at least had some idea of what they were voting for.

 

Contrary to what most remainers trot out. It is impossible that 17 million people in the UK are racists, xenophobes or right-wing lunatics.

Given that I doubt that 5% of those 17 million people could explain how the customs union or single market worked or even what it was if you asked them, I would very also very much doubt that they knew they were voting to leave them.

[The Renegade]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

Given that I doubt that 5% of those 17 million people could explain how the customs union or single market worked or even what it was if you asked them, I would very also very much doubt that they knew they were voting to leave them.

tebee

 

What you doubt has as much meaning as the honest words of a Nigerian Prince internet scammer ??

 

You want to refute something. Go ahead, but at least have the decency of backing it up.

 

Doubts mean jack when you are talking about 17 million people.

[tebee]

2 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

tebee

 

What you doubt has as much meaning as the honest words of a Nigerian Prince internet scammer ??

 

You want to refute something. Go ahead, but at least have the decency of backing it up.

 

Doubts mean jack when you are talking about 17 million people.

If we ask leavers now how the SM and CU mean and what problems leaving them will cause how many would you expect to be able to give an informed answer ? 

 

NB. I'd also suspect 50% of reaminders couldn't either ! 

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

We're not discussing house keeping! Finance at this level can be counter intuitive. Do you think the USA is doing badly because they run a huge deficit?

Housekeeping? Finance? We have been financing membership of a club that does not favour UK trading; the advantage from services is far outweighed by the losses in goods. And it's getting worse. The USA is not doing badly for now - this will change - not due to deficit but huge debts. 

[sandyf]

21 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Of course I do I believe everyone has a duty to keep up with politics and adults are all equal, regardless of who they voted. I, like others watch the PM's question time and many of the political programs. These are the places David Cameron consistently repeated what would happen if people voted to leave. 

I guess I have more faith in people than you do.?

Yes you do. Very few take a real interest in politics, just see the passing headlines.

My son and his wife voted to remain because her mother was that way inclined. Now that the company he works for has taken steps to protect their business in the EU, the whole family is regretting the way they voted. Reality kicking in.

 

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

If we ask leavers now how the SM and CU mean and what problems leaving them will cause how many would you expect to be able to give an informed answer ? 

Go ask them and clear up those doubts you have ??

 

Endlessly posting the same shoite is meaningless.

[tebee]

2 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Go ask them and clear up those doubts you have ??

 

Endlessly posting the same shoite is meaningless.

OK leavers on here -  how the SM and CU mean and what problems leaving them will cause?

[Laughing Gravy]

4 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Yes you do. Very few take a real interest in politics, just see the passing headlines.

My son and his wife voted to remain because her mother was that way inclined. Now that the company he works for has taken steps to protect their business in the EU, the whole family is regretting the way they voted. Reality kicking in.

 

My sister who was a leave voter and understood the way the EU morphed from the ECC watched the BBC all week before the referendum ,as her husband was on nights. She changed her vote at the last minute after hearing all the project fear stories. She regrets it now. A true story.

[sandyf]

3 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

My sister who was a leave voter and understood the way the EU morphed from the ECC watched the BBC all week before the referendum ,as her husband was on nights. She changed her vote at the last minute after hearing all the project fear stories. She regrets it now. A true story.

I don't doubt many will have moved their views for various reasons, my son because he has seen what is currently happening in business, not hearsay, and is under threat of relocation.

Why did you feel the need to add the last 3 words.

[Laughing Gravy]

25 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Brexit as a concept is a non-starter, even if we left, it would never work.

The most ridiculous statement this week. Well done. How on earth do all the other countries survive who are not in the EU! It must be hell for them.??

 

Japan, USA, China, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore South Korea etc etc 

[Laughing Gravy]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

I don't doubt many will have moved their views for various reasons, my son because he has seen what is currently happening in business, not hearsay, and is under threat of relocation.

Why did you feel the need to add the last 3 words.

errmm because it is true!!!!

 

This was before the referendum. I have heard even posters on here and other people say the way the EU have behaved that they would vote leave next time. Anecdotal evidence sure.

[Chomper Higgot]

15 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Housekeeping? Finance? We have been financing membership of a club that does not favour UK trading; the advantage from services is far outweighed by the losses in goods. And it's getting worse. The USA is not doing badly for now - this will change - not due to deficit but huge debts. 

Well you are right about where the US economy is headed.

 

And yet Brexiteers hope for a ‘free trade’ agreement with a US Government that is becoming rapidly more protectionist.

[Chomper Higgot]

17 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Go ask them and clear up those doubts you have ??

 

Endlessly posting the same shoite is meaningless.

Well stop posting it then.

[kwilco]

4 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

How on earth do all the other countries survive who are not in the EU! It must be hell for them.

Only a Brexiteer could say something as self contradictory as that.

[sandyf]

10 minutes ago, tebee said:

OK leavers on here -  how the SM and CU mean and what problems leaving them will cause?

You will not get a sensible answer, head in the sand.

There was one being interviewed on TV yesterday that claimed no deal was not a big deal as trade was currently conducted with a great deal of the world under WTO rules and not a problem.

I do not know how they get away with spreading this misinformation. The UK currently trades under EU WTO rules, UK WTO rules have yet to be determined so how can anyone pass comment.

[kwilco]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Well you are right about where the US economy is headed.

 

And yet Brexiteers hope for a ‘free trade’ agreement with a US Government that is becoming rapidly more protectionist.

Great idea...leave one market, of 500 million and try to join one of 250 million that is inherently one nnation and protectionist.......... good thinking!!!!

[sandyf]

5 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

errmm because it is true!!!!

 

This was before the referendum. I have heard even posters on here and other people say the way the EU have behaved that they would vote leave next time. Anecdotal evidence sure.

You obviously have more faith in people lying than I do.

[Laughing Gravy]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

You obviously have more faith in people lying than I do.

Please send me the link and evidence to that or just delete the obvious false statement.

Edited July 11, 2018 by Laughing Gravy

[Chomper Higgot]

May puts the economy, business, trade and jobs before nationalist jingoism.

 

 

And guess what?

 

The voting public see the sense in that.

 

 

[sandyf]

2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Please send me the link and evidence to that or just delete the obvious false statement.

You added 3 words to your post that were unnecessary and carried an implication. I would admit my last post was a bit tongue in cheek going on something you had posted previously and apologise if it cause offence.

I may not agree with your views but I would not doubt what you say and do not think it unreasonable to expect the same.

Rightly or wrongly I generally accept what people say until they prove otherwise and I can't recall anything that would make me doubt what you post.

[Laughing Gravy]

Just now, sandyf said:

You added 3 words to your post that were unnecessary and carried an implication. I would admit my last post was a bit tongue in cheek going on something you had posted previously and apologise if it cause offence.

I may not agree with your views but I would not doubt what you say and do not think it unreasonable to expect the same.

Rightly or wrongly I generally accept what people say until they prove otherwise and I can't recall anything that would make me doubt what you post.

You clearly said people are lying. where is the evidence. Obvisously there isn't. Now if you said you believe people to lie that is different. Sandy I have not took offence. I am also 'tongue in cheek'. We differ in views. This issue is forgotten with me. Next.

[JAG]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

Once Brexit has fallen flat on it's face, I d like to see as many Brexiteers as possible tried and imprisoned for treason.

Fortunately holding contrary views to you, daring to express them and horror of horrors being prepared to vote for those views in a nationwide referendum are a very long way from any definition of treason, apart interestingly from some of the bellowing of the more frothy mouthed Ulster Unionist politicians of the 1970s and 1980s - widely regarded as some of the most inventive bigots of the recent UK political scene!

 

So wanting Brexit is not treason. Wanting the democratically expressed wish of the British electorate, as stated through a referendum (and let's not forget a subsequent election) overturned could however, at a stretch, be described as something approaching treason.

 

It's interesting to note that imprisoning (and worse) for treason was a policy of certain states in Europe in the first half of the 20th Century, states from which sprung the concept of "ever closer union".

 

We can also muse on the presence, amongst the judges of this "ever closer union's" court, which claims supremacy over our own courts, those whose glittering judicial careers began within regimes (of the former Soviet Bloc) which enthusiastically prosecuted political opponents in the way you suggest.

 

Any way, back to your suggestion about prosecuting "Brexiteers" for treason - sounds like something out of "Pirates of the Caribbean"!

Edited July 11, 2018 by JAG

[Chomper Higgot]

22 minutes ago, JAG said:

Fortunately holding contrary views to you, daring to express them and horror of horrors being prepared to vote for those views in a nationwide referendum are a very long way from any definition of treason, apart interestingly from some of the bellowing of the more frothy mouthed Ulster Unionist politicians of the 1970s and 1980s - widely regarded as some of the most inventive bigots of the recent UK political scene!

 

So wanting Brexit is not treason. Wanting the democratically expressed wish of the British electorate, stated through a referendum (and let's not forget a subsequent election) overturned could however, at a stretch, be described as something approaching treason.

 

It's interesting to note that imprisoning (and worse) was a policy of certain states in Europe in the mid 20 Century, states from which sprung the concept of "ever closer union".

 

We can also muse on the presence, amongst the judges of this "ever closer union's" court, which claims supremacy over our own courts, those whose glittering judicial careers began within regimes (of the former Soviet Bloc) which enthusiastically prosecuted political opponents in the way you suggest.

 

Any way, back to your suggestion about prosecuting "Brexiteers" for treason...

The accusation of Brexiteers being treasonous is of course offensive, just as the same accusations made against Remain supporters or accusing those who challenged the government’s attempted power grab  in court of being ‘enemies of the people’ is unwarranted and offensive.

 

These, I feel, are examples of the division created in society by those peddling ‘division’. The language reflects exactly that used by sections of the press and certain public figures.

 

However, that does not mean there is not cause to consider and investigate possible acts against the U.K. and British Democracy.

 

There is clear evidence of fraudulent election spending (and collusion to commit that crime).

 

There are also extremely serious questions that need to be answered by Aaron Banks regarding his statement, maintained for almost two years that he had only one ‘boozy lunch’ meeting with representatives of the Russian Government- we now know he had at least 11 meetings and these included lucrative offers to Banks.

 

Remain and Brexit supporters accusing each other of treason is utterly digraceful.

 

But there are very credible reasons why the motives of senior figures within the Brexit Leave ‘camp’ need to be examined, these include their ties to Russia and if those ties influenced their actions.

 

And this doesn’t even touch on ‘Cambr Analytica’!

Edited July 11, 2018 by Chomper Higgot

[tebee]

Fintan O’Toole: Britain has gone to huge trouble to humiliate itself

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-britain-has-gone-to-huge-trouble-to-humiliate-itself-1.3558995?mode=amp

[The Renegade]

1 hour ago, JAG said:

Any way, back to your suggestion about prosecuting "Brexiteers" for treason - sounds like something out of "Pirates of the Caribbean"!

These are the highly educated remainers you are talking about here ??

 

The ones who gave us such beauties such as

 

'' Have another Referendum and only under 45's can vote '' ??

 

'' All leavers, the whole 17 million of them are racist, xenophobic or right-wing lunatics ''

 

Too many to list and my ribs are aching again just thinking about them ??

 

''Poor wee timorous beasties

Ohhh what a panic is in thy remainer breasties ''

 

With apologies to the great Rabbie Burns.

[billd766]

18 hours ago, The Renegade said:

Not much we agree on.

 

Do I really need to spell it out for you ??

 

T....... R.......O........L........L

 

I don't believe for one moment he is a troll.

 

A committed Remainer yes, a dyed in the wool Remainer, yes, in exactly the same way that you are a committed and dyed in the wool Brexiteer.

 

You don't have to agree. Just accept each others opinions and move on.

[The Renegade]

22 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

I don't believe for one moment he is a troll.

 

A committed Remainer yes, a dyed in the wool Remainer, yes, in exactly the same way that you are a committed and dyed in the wool Brexiteer.

 

You don't have to agree. Just accept each others opinions and move on.

Wrong end of the stick there billd.

 

I was not referring to ruamrudy as a t....r.....o....l.....l, but the same poster that you thought was grouse ?

[bristolboy]

Here is a link to a very lucid and succinct explanation of the economic folly of Brexit:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/10/opinion/brexit-meets-gravity.html

[vogie]

36 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

I don't believe for one moment he is a troll.

 

A committed Remainer yes, a dyed in the wool Remainer, yes, in exactly the same way that you are a committed and dyed in the wool Brexiteer.

 

You don't have to agree. Just accept each others opinions and move on.

Bill, this is the poster that you thought was grouses alter ego, it seems a lot of his offensive posts have been deleted now.