Put your cards on the table, EU makes last Brexit call to Britain

[sandyf]

On 7/18/2018 at 10:28 AM, sandyf said:

Bit like the referendum,we will get the votes we want, one way or another.

 

Reports suggested Julian Smith, the Tories’ chief whip, had faced down potential rebels by threatening to call a vote of no confidence in the government if the amendment was passed.  

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/government-win-customs-union-eu-brexit-vote-commons-tory-remain-rebels-theresa-may-a8451886.html

A statement by the Conservative party failed to deny claims that Mr Smith told several Tory MPs to vote on Tuesday during a key Brexit bill, despite being paired with ill or pregnant MPs.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-uk-eu-julian-smith-brandon-lewis-jo-swinson-chief-whip-vote-tory-party-a8455366.html

[tebee]

4 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Why did you address this comment to me tebee ?

 

Should you not address it to the poster who made the comment ?

 

Personally, I have no idea what Corbyn wants. I do not think Corbyn has any idea either, if truth be told.

I did it especially to annoy you ! ?

 

Seriously you were both  talking about what he wanted  and whether it counted as leaving or not - my decision to reply to you was because of the second part of my comment - I think he does want to leave in a meaningful way. 

[sandyf]

Wonder how this would have panned out if claimants had no final recourse to the ECJ.

 

It follows legal action which challenged the DWP’s original decision to limit backdating of the arrears to the date of a tribunal decision, arguing that the oversight had been one which ministers knew to have been a mistake before the Upper Tribunal decision and as such counted as “official error”.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/disability-benefit-dwp-esa-esther-mcvey-a8453271.html

 

Exceptionally, the UT and Courts can refer a matter to the European Court of Justice to decide a particular question. The ruling given by the European Court on the matter will then be incorporated into the final decision made by the UT or Courts, according to whichever of them had referred the matter for determination.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/236974/hbgm-c6-reconsidering-revising-superseding.pdf

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

I did it especially to annoy you ! ?

 

Seriously you were both  talking about what he wanted  and whether it counted as leaving or not - my decision to reply to you was because of the second part of my comment - I think he does want to leave in a meaningful way. 

Then your English comprehension is failing you again ??

 

I never mention what Corbyn wanted. I responded to a statement on what Corbyn wanted, with this:

 

32 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Corbyn is so dense that he cannot comprehend that staying in the SM & CU does not equate to leaving the EU.

 

He also so dense that he cannot comprehend that staying in the SM & CU nullifies most of his Party Manifesto Policies.

 

[vogie]

Great read from the Telegraph on the speech that may well be.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/07/19/number-10s-secret-brexit-back-up-plan-could-rescue-conservatives/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

[tebee]

On 7/18/2018 at 4:09 PM, tebee said:

There comes a limit to the amount you can stockpile !

 

But however much it is, it adds to the cost of manufacturing there.

 

other mainland plants will be cheaper.

 

Sooner or later the manufacturing capacity   will move to them.

 

On 7/18/2018 at 4:17 PM, The Renegade said:

But that does not negate in any way

 

Nice try, but no cigar.

 

To add a bit of perspective to this argument , I came across this today - 

 

 

Honda at Swindon receives 2m components per day thanks to free movement of goods. After a no deal Brexit, to store the minimum 9 days' worth of components on site, they would need to erect the 3rd-largest building on Earth: 300,000 sq m = 42 football pitches. (source: FT 26.6.18)

 

[billd766]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Are you suggesting Bill that all freedom fighters should have given up at the first hurdle. The referendum was not a 'rout' and whether people accept it or not, the UK is engaged in a civil war of words. The government staggers from one battle to the next.

It is a contentious argument as to which side is actually fighting for democracy.

 

To get the correct answer to that we have to define democracy.

 

Was the vote back in 1975 democratic, in that the government of that time presented both sides of the argument, or was only the join side presented?

 

If only one side was presented then the vote wasn't democratic. At least in the referendum both sides presented their case, lies on each side as well, plus the news, TV internet etc was available so that anybody who wanted to could root out facts and figures to make their case.

 

40 odd years ago we were given the choice of signing up or not.

 

In 2016 we were given exactly the same choice, leave or stay.

 

Nobody knew or understood what would happen in 1975 any more that they did in 2016.

 

The problem now is that a majority of people who voted, voted to leave and the government said that they would accept the result and act on it which ever way it went. They should be working on how to leave and all the ministers and MPs should be working to leave.

 

Sadly, the PM and many ministers and MPs are trying to tie the UK to the EU which is NOT what they are there to do.

 

I would be quite happy to see another general election and the remainer PM, ministers and MPs tossed out but that may let Corbyn's looney mob in and sure as eggs is eggs they will manage to screw it up more than the current lot.

 

This current lot may not be very good but the lot slavering and drooling on the sidelines will be far worse for the country.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

A statement by the Conservative party failed to deny claims that Mr Smith told several Tory MPs to vote on Tuesday during a key Brexit bill, despite being paired with ill or pregnant MPs.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-uk-eu-julian-smith-brandon-lewis-jo-swinson-chief-whip-vote-tory-party-a8455366.html

 

BBC news this morning

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44886069

[tebee]

12 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

BBC news this morning

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44886069

The moralities of MPs seems to be sinking to new lows - 

 

.......chief whip Mr Smith to explain himself after reports he told Mr Lewis and two other Tory MPs that they should go ahead and vote, despite being paired. Two of the MPs are reported to have refused to break their pairing arrangements.

Edited July 20, 2018 by tebee

[evadgib]

20 minutes ago, tebee said:

The moralities of MPs seems to be sinking to new lows - 

 

.......chief whip Mr Smith to explain himself after reports he told Mr Lewis and two other Tory MPs that they should go ahead and vote, despite being paired. Two of the MPs are reported to have refused to break their pairing arrangements.

I'm not entirely sure how this 'whip' lark works, but surely anyone who is paired would have the gumption to stick to their guns and tell them to FO without fear of consequences?

[roobaa01]

cards are openly laid on the table resulting in 

 

1. hard brexit

2. tremendous trade deal with the usa by adopting us standards

 

3. drunkard juncker goes to washington this week to repent to mr. trump by offering huge trade concessions 55555 trumpy boy works well.

 

wbrroobaa01

[The Renegade]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

To add a bit of perspective to this argument , I came across this today - 

 

 

Honda at Swindon receives 2m components per day thanks to free movement of goods. After a no deal Brexit, to store the minimum 9 days' worth of components on site, they would need to erect the 3rd-largest building on Earth: 300,000 sq m = 42 football pitches. (source: FT 26.6.18)

 

???

 

Where does the biggest % of those parts come from tebee ?

 

I will give you a hint, just over 60% of the parts imported and used at Honda Swindon do not come from  the EU.

 

Which makes a complete mockery of the FT ( Pro Remain ) story and a fool of you for believing it.

 

???

 

 

 

 

[Rally123]

4 hours ago, stephenterry said:

What proof do you have that Brexit will be a success?

None whatsoever, but having been in it for over 40 years and the majority of voters tell the government to leave says a lot IMO.

 

4 hours ago, stephenterry said:

third response comments (highlighted in bold) were, and in contravention of forum rule 16 (no flaming permitted).

I'm all for law and order, so report me. No problem. I'm sure TV forum is aptly moderated and if my post was 'flaming' then it would have been deleted by now. But if you are offended by my reply then I apologise as no insult was meant.

[tebee]

9 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

???

 

Where does the biggest % of those parts come from tebee ?

 

I will give you a hint, just over 60% of the parts imported and used at Honda Swindon do not come from  the EU.

 

Which makes a complete mockery of the FT ( Pro Remain ) story and a fool of you for believing it.

 

???

 

 

 

 

Where do you get that figure from ? This says 75 %

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/27/honda-faces-the-real-cost-of-brexit-in-a-former-spitfire-plant.html

 

Even 40% is still 17 football pitches worth !

 

 

 

 

[Laughing Gravy]

For those people who actually think the EU are democratic read the link below. I keep seeing posts on here saying that the EU isdemocratic and that the EU council is voted in. I have never had a chance or ballot to vote on the EU council or president. I do however have a choice with the UK politicians and get that opportunity at least every 5 years. 

 

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/a-very-eu-coup-martin-selmayrs-astonishing-power-grab/

 

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

 

 

To add a bit of perspective to this argument , I came across this today - 

 

 

Honda at Swindon receives 2m components per day thanks to free movement of goods. After a no deal Brexit, to store the minimum 9 days' worth of components on site, they would need to erect the 3rd-largest building on Earth: 300,000 sq m = 42 football pitches. (source: FT 26.6.18)

 

No doubt someone will try and rubbish the point, this is what was said last year.

 

http://swindon-business.net/index.php/2017/06/21/quitting-eu-customs-union-could-harm-hondas-swindon-plant-top-boss-warns/

[Rally123]

Tebee we can all post figures until the cows come home but we can't be sure on them until we actually Brexit. 

 

 

 

Quote

Kawczynski MP: No Deal is becoming more likely, and it's a good option

 

“We have a trade surplus with the rest of the world of £50bn-a-year, whereas we have a deficit of £80bn-a-year with the EU.
“If we went to WTO terms, our British companies would have to pay the EU around £5bn-a-year in tariffs, but they’d have to pay us £12bn because of that deficit.”

https://www.westmonster.com/kawczynski-mp-no-deal-is-becoming-more-likely-and-its-a-good-option/

[RuamRudy]

30 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

cards are openly laid on the table resulting in 

 

1. hard brexit

2. tremendous trade deal with the usa by adopting us standards

 

3. drunkard juncker goes to washington this week to repent to mr. trump by offering huge trade concessions 55555 trumpy boy works well.

 

wbrroobaa01

 

What in particular is it about the prospect of the wholesale dumping of the food and quality standards that we have enjoyed for decades that appeals to you?

 

[The Renegade]

5 minutes ago, tebee said:

Where do you get that figure from ? This says 75 %

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/27/honda-faces-the-real-cost-of-brexit-in-a-former-spitfire-plant.html

???

 

No it doesn't

 

It says

 

Quote

75%

Percentage of Honda components which arrive via the Channel tunnel. If there is disruption the tunnel cannot recover quickly

That will be 75% of the 40% EU sourced  parts that come through the Channel Tunnel. 

 

Not 75% of ALL parts come from the EU ??

 

The Biggest % of the parts used at Swindon come from the US

 

Quote

The crash of the British pound following the Brexit vote has, fortuitously, made this new export strategy a winner, despite higher costs for parts from the U.S. (the main source of imported parts). "It's definitely profitable," said McDonald.

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20170619/COPY/306199968/hondas-uk-plant-gets-a-boost-from-u.s.

 

It comes as no surprise that you are full of doom & gloom and fall over your pessimism every day. You do not comprehend what you are reading.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 

BBC news this morning

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44886069

The PM told the house it was a 'genuine mistake', her credibility hinges on the interpretation of 'mistake' -  being caught out?

[RuamRudy]

16 minutes ago, Rally123 said:

Tebee we can all post figures until the cows come home but we can't be sure on them until we actually Brexit. 

 

 

 

https://www.westmonster.com/kawczynski-mp-no-deal-is-becoming-more-likely-and-its-a-good-option/

 

So those of us who lack your blind, wholly baseless faith have to live with it?

 

I am all for democracy but, when the absolute best you have to offer after more than 2 years is to say 'trust me, it will be ok', I am afraid that that is simply not good enough by a long shot.

 

 

[sandyf]

22 minutes ago, Rally123 said:

Tebee we can all post figures until the cows come home but we can't be sure on them until we actually Brexit. 

 

 

 

https://www.westmonster.com/kawczynski-mp-no-deal-is-becoming-more-likely-and-its-a-good-option/

Like many others you are making the assumption that post brexit trade figures will remain unchanged.

Any punter will tell that past performance  does not guarantee a win.

[The Renegade]

Yes

 

Just ask the IMF ???

 

Quote

This is not the first time the fund has intervened in Brexit. Ahead of the referendum two years ago, the IMF predicted that a vote to leave the EU would trigger a stock market crash and a recession in 2017, drawing angry reactions from Brexit campaigners who attacked its record on economic forecasting.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jul/19/no-deal-brexit-would-harm-all-european-countries-warns-imf

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

So those of us who lack your blind, wholly baseless faith have to live with it?

 

I am all for democracy but, when the absolute best you have to offer after more than 2 years is to say 'trust me, it will be ok', I am afraid that that is simply not good enough by a long shot.

 

 

RR would you admit that any proposals put in front of Barnier would be looked at fairly and squarely, he wants the UK to remain in the EU, by one way or another and that is not what the majority of the electorate voted for.

He is quite happy to try and humiliate the UK in the process and if we let him we deserve all we get. 

Can we start putting some of the blame towards the EU, they are being totally unreasonable and intransigent, do we roll over and accept a kicking or do we make a stand against such childish behaviour. What can we do if they do not want to negotiate?

[whatsupdoc]

13 minutes ago, vogie said:

RR would you admit that any proposals put in front of Barnier would be looked at fairly and squarely, he wants the UK to remain in the EU, by one way or another and that is not what the majority of the electorate voted for.

He is quite happy to try and humiliate the UK in the process and if we let him we deserve all we get. 

Can we start putting some of the blame towards the EU, they are being totally unreasonable and intransigent, do we roll over and accept a kicking or do we make a stand against such childish behaviour. What can we do if they do not want to negotiate?

Accept the Norway or Canada option (or no deal) and stop trying to cherry-pick. Also do not try to bend the rules that hold 27 EU countries together while wanting to leave the club yourself.

[Laughing Gravy]

Just now, whatsupdoc said:

Accept the Norway or Canada option (or no deal) and stop trying to cherry-pick. Also do not try to bend the rules that hold 27 EU countries together while wanting to leave the club yourself.

How about just leave the EU with WTO trade deals and do what the 17.4 million people voted for instead of cherry picking into what is no termed as a soft brexit or keeping the UK shackled to the EU. I really believe that many remainers  have the onset of Dementia

[tebee]

51 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

???

 

No it doesn't

 

It says

 

That will be 75% of the 40% EU sourced  parts that come through the Channel Tunnel. 

 

Not 75% of ALL parts come from the EU ??

 

The Biggest % of the parts used at Swindon come from the US

 

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20170619/COPY/306199968/hondas-uk-plant-gets-a-boost-from-u.s.

 

It comes as no surprise that you are full of doom & gloom and fall over your pessimism every day. You do not comprehend what you are reading.

It's not it's 75% of all parts.

 

The reality for Honda is that just 25 per cent of the Civic model is now “true UK content”. Nissan is in a similar position: only 15 per cent of its components are paid for in sterling.

 

Honda said its local content figure drops to 25 percent when the content of parts assembled in the UK was taken into account.

 

It's a major problem for "rules of origin" regulation too

Edited July 20, 2018 by tebee

[whatsupdoc]

1 minute ago, Laughing Gravy said:

How about just leave the EU with WTO trade deals and do what the 17.4 million people voted for instead of cherry picking into what is no termed as a soft brexit or keeping the UK shackled to the EU. I really believe that many remainers  have the onset of Dementia

If that is what the UK wants it is fine with me. Just leave on WTO rules (but stop all the whining). Happy now?

[The Renegade]

19 minutes ago, tebee said:

It's not it's 75% of all parts.

Tebee,

 

Give it up.

 

You have been caught out fear - mongering because you post links to articles that you do not understand or comprehend. Stop embarrassing yourself.

 

Car manufactures, plane manufactures and probably most manufacturers in the UK source parts worldwide, not just from the EU.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2018 by The Renegade

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, The Renegade said:

???

 

Where does the biggest % of those parts come from tebee ?

 

I will give you a hint, just over 60% of the parts imported and used at Honda Swindon do not come from  the EU.

 

Which makes a complete mockery of the FT ( Pro Remain ) story and a fool of you for believing it.

 

???

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, tebee said:

Where do you get that figure from ? This says 75 %

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/27/honda-faces-the-real-cost-of-brexit-in-a-former-spitfire-plant.html

 

Even 40% is still 17 football pitches worth !

 

 

 

 

But to be fair to Renegade, according to the same article BMW has four plants in the UK and almost 90% of parts for them come from the EU.