Put your cards on the table, EU makes last Brexit call to Britain

[kwilco]

Insight into how Brexiteers form an opinion?

 

"I haven’t read the article because my computer's anti-drivel software prevents me from accessing the Independent, among other publications"

 

A case of shooting the messenger BEFORE the message is delivered?

 

[kwilco]

I'm mystified as to the reasons behind Brexit....apart from a right-wing coup, there appears to be no ogic.....Instead of constantly berating the thousands of problems put forward by the remainer side as "fear mongering" etc, please could any Brexiteer produce a simple clear list of the Benefits of Brexit?

Still hasn't happened.I seriously doubt if there are amy....

 

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, kwilco said:

"It may surprise those posters to learn that many people voted for Brexit, including some ex-pats, even though realising that there could be some initial disadvantages and financial costs to them personally."

 

I think you'll find that it is precisely those who voted Brexit who will be the most surprised

And I think that you are wrong.

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, kwilco said:

I'm mystified as to the reasons behind Brexit....apart from a right-wing coup, there appears to be no ogic.....Instead of constantly berating the thousands of problems put forward by the remainer side as "fear mongering" etc, please could any Brexiteer produce a simple clear list of the Benefits of Brexit?

Still hasn't happened.I seriously doubt if there are amy....

 

We want proper light bulbs again.

[vogie]

5 hours ago, kwilco said:

I'm mystified as to the reasons behind Brexit....apart from a right-wing coup, there appears to be no ogic.....Instead of constantly berating the thousands of problems put forward by the remainer side as "fear mongering" etc, please could any Brexiteer produce a simple clear list of the Benefits of Brexit?

Still hasn't happened.I seriously doubt if there are amy....

 

No ogic you say, are you really happy with bananas that look like spirit levels? ???

[The Renegade]

5 hours ago, kwilco said:

I'm mystified as to the reasons behind Brexit.

As are all Liberal Lefties, so called Progressives, Cameron and the EU Satsuma's & Plums.

 

You are in good company ??

[Eloquent pilgrim]

5 hours ago, kwilco said:

Insight into how Brexiteers form an opinion?

 

"I haven’t read the article because my computer's anti-drivel software prevents me from accessing the Independent, among other publications"

 

A case of shooting the messenger BEFORE the message is delivered?

 

Insight into how easy Remainers are to wind up.

 

Oh dear, oh dear, you actually took that comment seriously, really ?

 

Yet another brilliant example of a remainers inability to comprehend

 

BTW …… Fabulous use of upper case letters to add extra emphasis to a word; really imaginative that

[The Renegade]

6 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Yet another brilliant example of a remainers inability to comprehend

Indeed. Whoosh would be an appropriate term ?

 

Did they all attend the same Skool ?  ??

[Chomper Higgot]

5 hours ago, kwilco said:

I'm mystified as to the reasons behind Brexit....apart from a right-wing coup, there appears to be no ogic.....Instead of constantly berating the thousands of problems put forward by the remainer side as "fear mongering" etc, please could any Brexiteer produce a simple clear list of the Benefits of Brexit?

Still hasn't happened.I seriously doubt if there are amy....

 

You’ve had a few Brexit supporters offer snide quips on parts of your post, but so far they’ve all dodged the question you ask.

 

Don’t expect much else.

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You’ve had a few Brexit supporters offer snide quips on parts of your post, but so far they’ve all dodged the question you ask.

 

Don’t expect much else.

Blue passports, how many reasons do you need.

[RuamRudy]

41 minutes ago, nauseus said:

We want proper light bulbs again.

 

Have you just outed yourself, nauseus, or is this much more of a concern than I had realised???

 

(apologies - wrong stalwart attributed...)

Edited July 2, 2018 by RuamRudy

[JAG]

6 hours ago, kwilco said:

I'm mystified as to the reasons behind Brexit....apart from a right-wing coup, there appears to be no ogic.....Instead of constantly berating the thousands of problems put forward by the remainer side as "fear mongering" etc, please could any Brexiteer produce a simple clear list of the Benefits of Brexit?

Still hasn't happened.I seriously doubt if there are amy....

 

Well as you are mystified as to how some of us formed our opinions, you can't have been following the topic on TVF that closely. I cannot speak for others, but I have, on several occasions posted explaining my reasons. I will briefly restate my reasons, which are: the unelected and essentially unaccountable nature of the centralised beaurocracy, directed by unelected politicians who have no popular mandate, and which has clear ambition already partially realised to assume the role of a Federal Government, the erosion of our national sovereignty, and with it our ability as a nation to ally with, negotiate with and trade with whomsoever we choose, on terms which we chose, and the replacement of our ancient and effective "common law system' with a codified "continental" legal code. This last point is the absolutely inevitable prerequisite of "ever closer union".

 

I have wearied of the rubric which appears to dictate that those who voted to leave (after all a majority of those who voted) are educationally and intellectually inadequate bigots unable to form an opinion beyond the "op-ed" pages of the Daily Express. It is very much the same patronising approach which led to Bob Geldorf and his mates "f bombing" those campaigning fishermen on the Thames 

Edited July 2, 2018 by JAG

[The Renegade]

8 minutes ago, JAG said:

Well as you are mystified as to how some of us formed our opinions, you can't have been following the topic on TVF that closely. I cannot speak for others, but I have, on several occasions posted explaining my reasons. I will briefly restate my reasons, which are: the unelected and essentially unaccountable nature of the centralised beaurocracy, directed by unelected politicians who have no popular mandate, and which has clear ambition already partially realised to assume the role of a Federal Government, the erosion of our national sovereignty, and with it our ability as a nation to ally with, negotiate with and trade with whomsoever we choose, on terms which we chose, and the replacement of our ancient and effective "common law system' with a codified "continental" legal code. This last point is the absolutely inevitable prerequisite of "ever closer union".

 

I have wearied of the rubric which appears to dictate that those who voted to leave (after all a majority of those who voted) are educationally and intellectually inadequate bigots unable to form an opinion beyond the "op-ed" pages of the Daily Express.

Shhhhhhh JAG

 

There are many lurkers who do not understand the words that you say. ??

 

They are too highly educated ?

Edited July 2, 2018 by The Renegade

[vogie]

13 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Have you just outed yourself, nauseus, or is this much more of a concern than I had realised???

 

(apologies - wrong stalwart attributed...)

And which do you prefer RR, bayonet or screw in?

[Eloquent pilgrim]

6 hours ago, kwilco said:

I'm mystified as to the reasons behind Brexit....apart from a right-wing coup, there appears to be no ogic.....Instead of constantly berating the thousands of problems put forward by the remainer side as "fear mongering" etc, please could any Brexiteer produce a simple clear list of the Benefits of Brexit?

Still hasn't happened.I seriously doubt if there are amy....

 

Are you aware that Brexit hasn't actually happened yet, so how can there possibly be any benefits from something that is yet to happen. The UK is still in the EU, you really should try to keep up with events.

 

Brexit was not a rightwing coup, it was a democratic referendum for the eligible electorate of the UK to vote on remaining in, or leaving the EU. Google 'coup' if you don't know what it means, and please try to proofread your comments before submitting them, it will prevent you from being ridiculed

[RuamRudy]

12 minutes ago, vogie said:

And which do you prefer RR, bayonet or screw in?

I am stocking up on candles, just in case the lights go out

[stephenterry]

7 minutes ago, JAG said:

Well as you are mystified as to how some of us formed our opinions, you can't have been following the topic on TVF that closely. I cannot speak for others, but I have, on several occasions posted explaining my reasons. I will briefly restate my reasons, which are: the unelected and essentially unaccountable nature of the centralised beaurocracy, directed by unelected politicians who have no popular mandate, and which has clear ambition already partially realised to assume the role of a Federal Government, the erosion of our national sovereignty, and with it our ability as a nation to ally with, negotiate with and trade with whomsoever we choose, on terms which we chose, and the replacement of our ancient and effective "common law system' with a codified "continental" legal code. This last point is the absolutely inevitable prerequisite of "ever closer union".

 

I have wearied of the rubric which appears to dictate that those who voted to leave (after all a majority of those who voted) are educationally and intellectually inadequate bigots unable to form an opinion beyond the "op-ed" pages of the Daily Express.

It might surprise you that 80% of the EU budget is owned by member countries, and any unaccountability is predominately those countries spending on projects that don't comply to the EU rules, like airports that have few travellers, according to the EU auditors who have signed off every year's accounts since inception. That is fact if you Google it. I do, however, agree that bureaucracy is wasteful, but that occurs everywhere, not just in Brussels.

 

Trade - yes, that's true, but who would want to trade with us once we leave the EU and probably the single market, as our main market is the EU single market together with those 60+ countries outside the EU that already trade with us whilst we're members of the EU. We export more to the Netherlands than to the Commonwealth countries combined. Just look in any large supermarket and see where these goods are coming from. The diversity is enormous. Outside the EU we're a nation of 66m people competing with a 440m people EU market, and that, dear friend, is why the UK economy will sink post-Brexit - because we'll have no clout, leading to more costly and fewer goods entering our ports.

 

As to the other lesser points, IMO, I don't think we're nationalistic enough to care where the UK stands - if alone or embedded in the EU. Not in England, anyway. 

 

But the main reason I'm siding with the remainers is that it's economically beneficial for the UK to be in the EU despite its faults, and any attempt to stand alone is going to be a countrywide financial disaster when businesses fail or move to the EU and thousands of jobs are lost. Currently, a few EU car manufacturers are not importing any parts from the UK as they know that after Brexit all goods would be held up in a massive roadblock at the ports on both sides owing to the UK leaving the customs union.

 

But carry on believing  it would be better for Britain to leave the EU... 

 

 

[The Renegade]

9 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

But the main reason I'm siding with the remainers is that it's economically beneficial for the UK to be in the EU despite its faults, and any attempt to stand alone is going to be a countrywide financial disaster

Are you tebee in disguise ?

 

History will be the judge of whether Brexit will be a financial disaster for the UK.

 

That might take 5, 10 or 20 years to become known. Not today, tomorrow or next week, and crystal balls do not work either.

 

You keep clinging to your dream for another Referendum / Vote for under 45's only ??

[stephenterry]

29 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Are you aware that Brexit hasn't actually happened yet, so how can there possibly be any benefits from something that is yet to happen. The UK is still in the EU, you really should try to keep up with events.

 

Brexit was not a rightwing coup, it was a democratic referendum for the eligible electorate of the UK to vote on remaining in, or leaving the EU. Google 'coup' if you don't know what it means, and please try to proofread your comments before submitting them, it will prevent you from being ridiculed

Correct, as currently the UK economy, according to the BOE, is losing £400 million a week since the referendum, a negative benefit of Brexit as are many other publicised indicators on business failures and relocation to the EU and massive job losses. And Brexit hasn't yet happened - but in fact it has.  

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Correct, as currently the UK economy, according to the BOE, is losing £400 million a week since the referendum, 

Is it £400 million a week or

Quote

Brexit costs £200m every week in lost growth, says Mark Carney

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexit-costs-200m-every-week-in-lost-growth-says-carney-mxr5cwkhf

 

See how you managed to double the figure. Amazing that ??

 

Now for the difficult part. Try very hard and work out the difference in losing £ 400 million a week and potentially not growing by £200 million a week.

 

Not growing does not equate to losing money 

[stephenterry]

10 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Are you tebee in disguise ?

 

History will be the judge of whether Brexit will be a financial disaster for the UK.

 

That might take 5, 10 or 20 years to become known. Not today, tomorrow or next week, and crystal balls do not work either.

 

You keep clinging to your dream for another Referendum / Vote for under 45's only ??

It's already a financial disaster, see 229 above, the UK economy is losing £400m a week since the referendum. . What financial impact will benefit the UK when it leaves the EU?  How will the economy improve? There isn't any reason why it should. 

Edited July 2, 2018 by stephenterry
correction

[stephenterry]

4 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Is it £400 million a week or

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexit-costs-200m-every-week-in-lost-growth-says-carney-mxr5cwkhf

 

See how you managed to double the figure. Amazing that ??

 

Now for the difficult part. Try very hard and work out the difference in losing £ 400 million a week and potentially not growing by £200 million a week.

 

Not growing does not equate to losing money 

The Brexit vote has already inflicted a hit of almost £20bn on the UK economy – or around £300m for each week since the June 2016 referendum, according to a new analysis.

A team of four economists affiliated to the respected Centre for Economic Policy Research estimated what the likely path of the UK economy would have been if the referendum result had gone the other way.

[The Renegade]

5 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

The Brexit vote has already inflicted a hit of almost £20bn on the UK economy – or around £300m for each week since the June 2016 referendum, according to a new analysis.

A team of four economists affiliated to the respected Centre for Economic Policy Research estimated what the likely path of the UK economy would have been if the referendum result had gone the other way.

And still you persist, despite not having a clue in the difference between

 

Estimated growth and losing money

 

Stick to what you do best, calling for an under 45 vote only ??

 

Clueless is being polite.

Edited July 2, 2018 by The Renegade

[RuamRudy]

4 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

And still you persist, despite not having a clue in the difference between

 

Estimated growth and losing money

 

Stick to what you do best, calling for an under 45 vote only ??

 

Clueless is being polite.

Expenditure plans are based upon projected income. It may all be notional money, but taxes generated by the now non-existant growth are no longer available to spend. That is a loss.

[The Renegade]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Expenditure plans are based upon projected income. It may all be notional money, but taxes generated by the now non-existant growth are no longer available to spend. That is a loss.

Nope.

 

Just like PROJECTED growth is not a loss,  PROJECTED taxes are also not a loss

 

And as you can see from here

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/284298/total-united-kingdom-hmrc-tax-receipts/

 

Despite Brexit. Despite lowered projected growth, tax take was at an all time high in 2016 / 17.

 

I also believe that the for financial year 2017 - 18 tax take also exceeded 2016 - 17. Official figures have not been released yet.

[stephenterry]

20 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

And still you persist, despite not having a clue in the difference between

 

Estimated growth and losing money

 

Stick to what you do best, calling for an under 45 vote only ??

 

Clueless is being polite.

If the economy grows higher than anticipated there is more government funding available for e.g. the NHS. If the economy does not grow at the budgeted rate there is less funding available  - that is a 'loss' which is demonstrated by the economists in financial terms so the general public can understand the implications easier.   

 

I would ask you to desist in flaming my posts, it is uncalled for.

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, The Renegade said:

Nope.

 

Just like PROJECTED growth is not a loss,  PROJECTED taxes are also not a loss

 

And as you can see from here

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/284298/total-united-kingdom-hmrc-tax-receipts/

 

Despite Brexit. Despite lowered projected growth, tax take was at an all time high in 2016 / 17.

 

I also believe that the for financial year 2017 - 18 tax take also exceeded 2016 - 17. Official figures have not been released yet.

You are referring to actuals, not forecasts. Government expenditure planning is not carried out in relation to real time tax accumulation - like practically every business, they work on 5, 10, 20 year forecasts, and make expenditure plans accordingly. As I said, ultimately this is notional money as it was never realised, but it would be considered a loss because it was already identified and allocated.

[Chomper Higgot]

So it’s Monday in the weak PM May will achieve agreement with her cabinet already.

 

A promise made and ‘goods to deliver.

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So it’s Monday in the weak PM May will achieve agreement with her cabinet already.

 

A promise made and ‘goods to deliver.

Looks like we could have a Gove v Rees Mogg showdown - both positioning themselves to be top dog ahead of the imminent toppling of TM.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

EU ON THE BRINK

 

The EU is in complete disarray, due primarily to the influx of mass uncontrolled immigration.

 

This ship of fools is no longer seaworthy, yet still the remainers want us to leave the lifeboat, climb back on board in order to go down with the ship; madness, utter madness, everywhere you look in the EU, there is chaos and disunity.

 

Yesterday, German interior minister Horst Seehofer, offered to resign, dismissing the EU migrant deal reached last week and accusing Merkel of making “zero” concessions in their dispute.

 

Seehofer described a meeting with Mrs Merkel on Saturday evening as “pointless and ineffective” and added: “I go to the trouble of going to Berlin and the chancellor showed zero point zero movement.”

 

In a last-ditch effort to resolve the crisis in Germany, Mrs Merkel had circulated a summary of the summit agreements to the CSU and Social Democratic Party (SPD) coalition leaders, and listed 14 EU countries that she said were prepared to sign deals to take back asylum seekers who had been registered elsewhere. These deals would of course be bilateral deals, ignoring the collective view.

 

However, her claim was substantially weakened at the weekend when Poland, the Czech Republic and Hungary were in complete denial of having made any undertaking to take back refugees. Italy, where most of the migrants that reach the German-Austrian border are registered, has not agreed to take any back.

 

With member states openly defying directives and the German government in danger of collapse, the EU is in grave danger of imploding before the UK gets to leave.