Biggest international rescue operation ever assembled in Thailand

[seajae]

3 minutes ago, steve73 said:

Little benefit in using a 60/40 mix for such shallow diving as necessary in this cave system (60/40 mixes are used to shorten decompression times after long/deep dives).

I agree closed circuit O2 rebreathers would give the divers at least 3-4 times as long underwater, but they're often more difficult to use in tight squeezes than regular air tanks.

thats it, they could be damaged too easily with all the rocks/tight spaces they need to navigate but they could increase dive times

 

Edited July 2, 2018 by seajae

[Just Weird]

1 hour ago, Happyman58 said:

Yeah you shake your head hey Col These guys are trying to help and he is looking for work permits  <deleted>

Who said anyone was looking for work permits apart from you?  Got a link?  Of course you haven't.

[evadgib]

38 minutes ago, seajae said:

scuba tanks are filled with air never oxygen, my worry would be that the air they are pumping into them could be contaminated with all the exhaust fumes and those smoking around the area. The compressor usually draws the air from an area where there is no chance of contaminants, many years ago at Mt Gambier a shop that filled scuba tanks for the freshwater caves(200') in the area was sued after a group of divers (with wealthy parents) got the narcs  while diving, many argued it was caused by the lack of experience of the divers and the dive master as they went off the main shot line then panicked especially as many of us had been using the shops air refills for a few years. Seeing all the traffic around where these tanks are being filled doesnt really fill me with confidence the air being taken is would be all that clean. 

My thoughts too when I saw that pic ?

[Just Weird]

20 minutes ago, africasiaeuro said:

I wonder if there was a need for my comments.

I decided to post anyway.

Upon seeing the huge logistics required, alone to fill 415 tanks of oxygen, I ask myself the question: How the heck did the group enter into a cave of this deep.

They didn't have 415 tanks, but they went in with what? With nothing?

Then the next question: By whom were they led? Some freaking unqualified jacka..s?

The whole system ist so loopholed, I repeat my earlier fears. There isn't a person with competency. I see a disaster unfolding.

Reminds me of a project I did in Ayudhya area, where second hand trasnport damaged machinery ( again the fault of incompetent people ) was imported at a 10 times inflated price, financed by a loan. Nobody was competent, the project Director was the lover of the owner, he had no skills but his butt. The subcontractors they chose inflated the price the usual 10 x, when I brought in a knowledgable Thai who offered the same work for 10 percent of their submitted price, he was silenced.

The last straw was when the owner ordered a 500 KV transformer to be installed right in the middle of the factory.

Chaos everywhere, this was the conditions to work with.

 

There is no relevance between the two cases. Somehow, with smiles, they achieve their targets. The Billions enter the country in form of Tourists rip offs who are magnetized by fake smiles.

 

I just pray the lost guys can be found soon, since all the Navy Seals and foreign personel is on the scene - the only chance to get them out.

 

"I wonder if there was a need for my comments".

There wasn't.

[BritManToo]

38 minutes ago, Parsve said:

Every marine in the word have closed oxygen diving equipment and usual diving tanks that are filled with nitrogen, for instance, 60/40 are in common use among sport divers as well. 

None of the equipment shown being carried around the caves for this rescue appears to be nitrox or oxygen.

All I see is normal air cylinders.

[Tchooptip]

As usual, we are not told or show everything yesterday on a secondary channel on the TV I saw a farmer whose fields in the cave district were totally flooded.

The camera showed as far as the eye could see that all he had sown was lost, his fields were a huge lake due to the pumping of the cave's water, he was desperate because he has a family to take care of and he says nothing is less certain that he will be compensated one way or another. So they did not ask themselves where and how or by what means they would reject all that water, there is a good chance that we will hear about it when it's all over,

[josephbloggs]

3 minutes ago, Tchooptip said:

As usual, we are not told or show everything yesterday on a secondary channel on the TV I saw a farmer whose fields in the cave district were totally flooded.

The camera showed as far as the eye could see that all he had sown was lost, his fields were a huge lake due to the pumping of the cave's water, he was desperate because he has a family to take care of and he says nothing is less certain that he will be compensated one way or another. So they did not ask themselves where and how or by what means they would reject all that water, there is a good chance that we will hear about it when it's all over,

And what is your point?  They shouldn't have pumped the caves?  The first - and only - priority should be in doing whatever is necessary to reach those boys.

 

"They didn't ask themselves where and how or by what means they would reject all that water".  And nor should they have done!  Just get it out of there.

[lvr181]

2 hours ago, Cereal said:

A guy I know said he heard the chief of police was there recently demanding to see the permits of the rescuers for their rights to be there working. Can anyone else confirm or categorically deny this.

 

It sounds insane and ridiculous, but being as it's Thailand, not out of the question.

 

 

With his finger pointed at the drilling machine, Pol Gen Srivara tersely asked the official whether he had the clearance from the Department of National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation to carry out the cave drilling. 

Regarding officials using drones to survey and take aerial pictures of the mountainous terrain above the cave to look for possible routes in to rescue the 13 victims trapped inside since June 23, the deputy police chief also raised the question of a permit for the use of drones. 

However, he later offered an apology if what he said did not satisfy the public but insisted that he would not tolerate violations of the law. 

 

(excerpt from the 'other' newspaper). 

 

Powerful IDIOT! His day in the sun and hopefully the sun will never shine for him again. Says much about some higher authorities in the Kingdom. I would like to think that the PM gives him a stern lecture about priorities (but I doubt it)!

 

He is the Deputy National Police Chief.

Edited July 2, 2018 by lvr181
Additional comment

[Happyman58]

Not even worth replying

[Tchooptip]

4 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

And what is your point?  They shouldn't have pumped the caves?  The first - and only - priority should be in doing whatever is necessary to reach those boys.

 

"They didn't ask themselves where and how or by what means they would reject all that water".  And nor should they have done!  Just get it out of there.

Give me a rest, I have no point, I just tell what I saw and what I heard and what they said on this channel

[josephbloggs]

1 minute ago, Tchooptip said:

Give me a rest, I have no point, I just tell what I saw and what I heard and what they said on this channel

Sorry, I read it the wrong way.

[Happyman58]

1 hour ago, lanista said:

The whole thing is out of control. There are thousands of army,police ,rescue workers dressed in a huge array of coloured outfits ,media and food vendors with carts attached to motor bikes.

Rescue workers doing evacuation drills. Helicopters everywhere. The only thing i havent seen yet are hookers.

Give it time , if theyre not there already.

 

If these 12 kids had been killed in pick up truck accident on the way to the caves  the tragedy would barely  rate a mention in the press. This cave thing has taken on a life of its own.

I was here when the Tsunami hit in '04, and yes, there were problems with farang rescue workers being  questioned over visa issues and overstays.Most of that recovery work was paid by farangs, Australia even supplied the refrigeration units for all the corpses.

I will assume all the farang teams at the cave fiasco will be paying their own way ;  and don't overstay! Dont forget Thailand is run by the military. There is no real government  anymore.Farangs are nothing here.

 

In other words they are making a circus out of the whole sad situation

[tandor]

2 hours ago, Toshiba66 said:

I am not sure I am an expert but I can tell you from experience that if I fart in the bath there is no displacement of anything unless I push to hard causing another form of displacement. That about kills the fun of the bath.

..eureka!

[tandor]

18 minutes ago, Happyman58 said:

In other words they are making a circus out of the whole sad situation

..an air-hooker would be handy.

[NoshowJones]

3 hours ago, evadgib said:

Are they forgetting how big the Tsunami operation was?

Some poster mentioned that the Tsunami helpers had to have work permits.

Personally, I do not believe that, but in the off chance it was true, would that be

happening here?

Lets just hope that these football players and coach get found and are safe.

[NoshowJones]

3 hours ago, Denim said:

The report was that he wanted to see the permits for any drones being used in the rescue and that if they were used without the proper permits the owners could find themselves in trouble.

Typical Thailand, the only thing on their mind should be getting everyone out safely, not stupid rules like

that at a time like this.

[cornishcarlos]

1 hour ago, seajae said:

suggest you check that,  as a licensed diver that has cave experience as well as one that was trained in a specialized unit I know what I am taking about, havent dived for years now but nothing has changed. Instead of making a wild guess/assumptions(google search) you should really ask someone that knows, oxygen is toxic at  one atmoshere, gas combinations are used for deep diving only and is not common. Again we see someone that knows bugger all about it trying to sound like they do

 

If oxygen is toxic at 1 atm, we should all be dead !! We breathe oxygen every day at 1atm...

Normal air is 21% oxygen and only becomes seriously toxic at a depth of approx 70m. (Partial pressure 1.6).

Nitrox mixes are generally either 32% or 36% oxygen, which become toxic at shallower depths.

 

Pretty sure these divers will just be using air for their dives.

[sletraveler]

3 hours ago, Denim said:

The report was that he wanted to see the permits for any drones being used in the rescue and that if they were used without the proper permits the owners could find themselves in trouble.

I believe it was the not well liked #2 man in Thai police responsible for the pettiness.  #1 was well regarded in that he personally inspected and went on the mountain for a look.  

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, lanista said:

The whole thing is out of control. There are thousands of army,police ,rescue workers dressed in a huge array of coloured outfits ,media and food vendors with carts attached to motor bikes.

Rescue workers doing evacuation drills. Helicopters everywhere. The only thing i havent seen yet are hookers.

Give it time , if theyre not there already.

 

If these 12 kids had been killed in pick up truck accident on the way to the caves  the tragedy would barely  rate a mention in the press. This cave thing has taken on a life of its own.

I was here when the Tsunami hit in '04, and yes, there were problems with farang rescue workers being  questioned over visa issues and overstays.Most of that recovery work was paid by farangs, Australia even supplied the refrigeration units for all the corpses.

I will assume all the farang teams at the cave fiasco will be paying their own way ;  and don't overstay! Dont forget Thailand is run by the military. There is no real government  anymore.Farangs are nothing here.

 

Your last sentence is very true, let the farang teams get on with their work and be thankful for them, and forget any officialdom at a time like this.

Get these high ranking Maj/Gens and Lt/Cols who know nothing about caves and floods out of the way, and let the real people get on with their work.

[scorecard]

18 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Some poster mentioned that the Tsunami helpers had to have work permits.

Personally, I do not believe that, but in the off chance it was true, would that be

happening here?

Lets just hope that these football players and coach get found and are safe.

There was some difference, many nations offered quickly to send trained people, expertise and equipment to help.

 

The PM at that time said 'no thanks we don't need it'.

 

No it wasn't a military / junta PM.

 

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, mike324 said:

Yes the police chief is being slammed by everyone in Thailand, even talk show hosts. On facebook page, there are countless posts about the police chief and memes made up bashing him. This guy can't be serious in wanting to rescue the kids.

Exactly what "rank" is this "police chief"? What a joke these people are?

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, Just Weird said:

Who said anyone was looking for work permits apart from you?  Got a link?  Of course you haven't.

It was licences for the drones that this high ranking officer was on about, and probably more official nonsense.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, greenchair said:

Keep going guys. 

Don't stop until they are found. 

Everyone is doing a great job. Everyone is doing their best. I'm really proud to see how much the Thai people have put into this. They really take care of their own when push comes to shove. 

Very proud to call myself a Thai citizen. 

 

Did you happen to read the half dozen or so posts prior to yours dealing with typical bureaucratic obstruction -- work permits, drone permits, etc. -- to those attempting to support the rescue efforts?

 

[NoshowJones]

11 minutes ago, scorecard said:

There was some difference, many nations offered quickly to send trained people, expertise and equipment to help.

 

The PM at that time said 'no thanks we don't need it'.

 

No it wasn't a military / junta PM.

 

Is that really true? That would have been Thaksin, right?

[impulse]

23 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

3 hours ago, Denim said:

The report was that he wanted to see the permits for any drones being used in the rescue and that if they were used without the proper permits the owners could find themselves in trouble.

Typical Thailand, the only thing on their mind should be getting everyone out safely, not stupid rules like

that at a time like this.

 

Though I'm not a big fan of dotting all the I's and crossing all the T's in favor of just getting 'er done, it makes sense that they'd want to know who is doing what, when and how- if only to keep unqualified hobbyists from crashing their drones into each other- or worse, into the drones piloted by the pro's.  Or 5 poorly designed drones all checking out the same holes in the ground and none checking the other side of the hill.

 

The same goes for teams doing God only knows what on the ground.  It's real easy for one team to undo all the good done by another if there's nobody coordinating the circus.  As distasteful as the idea of signing in and proving that you're qualified to be on location may be, how else do they know what the teams are doing and that none of them are well meaning amateurs that are going to make things worse?

 

[Just Weird]

11 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

It was licences for the drones that this high ranking officer was on about, and probably more official nonsense.

If that was the case then perhaps he was concerned about drones being used by rubber-neckers that were not part of the rescue operation getting in the way of the real rescue team drones.  That sounds reasonable to me.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, evadgib said:

Are they forgetting how big the Tsunami operation was?

 Not sure if it's just the often shoddy news media here or the society at large that has little sense of history or context.

 

Most of the kids doing the Thai reporting as adults these days probably weren't even adults 14 years ago. Just busy watching lakorns and going out clubbing, etc etc.

 

[NoshowJones]

3 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Though I'm not a big fan of dotting all the I's and crossing all the T's in favor of just getting 'er done, it makes sense that they'd want to know who is doing what, when and how- if only to keep unqualified hobbyists from crashing their drones into each other- or worse, into the drones piloted by the pro's.  Or 5 poorly designed drones all checking out the same holes in the ground and none checking the other side of the hill.

 

The same goes for teams doing God only knows what on the ground.  It's real easy for one team to undo all the good done by another if there's nobody coordinating the circus.  As distasteful as the idea of signing in and proving that you're qualified to be on location may be, how else do they know what the teams are doing and that none of them are well meaning amateurs that are going to make things worse?

 

You do make a lot of sense, but surely it is people who actually know what they are doing that should be directing things, not rich high ranking Mag/gens etc with no qualifications who paid for their ranks bothering about this licence and that permit etc.

[sanemax]

4 hours ago, Cereal said:

A guy I know said he heard the chief of police was there recently demanding to see the permits of the rescuers for their rights to be there working. Can anyone else confirm or categorically deny this.

 

It sounds insane and ridiculous, but being as it's Thailand, not out of the question.

No, it's not true .

[impulse]

25 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

You do make a lot of sense, but surely it is people who actually know what they are doing that should be directing things, not rich high ranking Mag/gens etc with no qualifications who paid for their ranks bothering about this licence and that permit etc.

 

On that we agree, and I'm not claiming it's being directed competently.  I don't know.  I hope it is, for the sake of the kids and their families.