All Aussie Related Stuff (excluding the old age pension)

[4MyEgo]

6 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Doesnt non-resident impact your share market investments, full tax (above the 30%) on dividends or Cap gains, no tax free threshold etc. 

I dont see any advantage to being a non resident for tax, only a disadvantage because any OZ income is taxed at a higher rate with no tax free threshold.

I have posted on this numerous times.

 

Being a non resident for tax purposes and investing your money in the Australian stock market means you pay NO TAX on fully franked dividends, i.e. dividends that have already had the 30% company tax taken out prior to paying you your dividend entitlement.

 

The only tax you will pay on shares is if they are not franked, i.e. the share has not had the company tax of 30% taken out of it, so it is your responsibility to work out the tax and advise the ATO so they can put their hand out to receive it, easily sorted, just don't buy unfranked shares.

 

As for capital gains tax on shares there are none to pay, as there is NO Capital Gains Tax payable on shares.

 

If you are an Australian resident for tax purposes then you will be taxed on shares and capital gains tax does apply on any gains.

 

The only disadvantage you have being a non resident is as follows:

 

1) If you have property in Australia you are taxed at the higher rate of 32.5c (no threshold) and will be subject to capital gains tax on the sale, that said, from 1 July 2019 if passed under legislation or if it has in fact passed, the capital gains tax will be applied at the full rate, i.e. no 50% discount, and wait for it, as the FULL capital gains tax will apply from the date you departed, so watch out for that one as a lot of blokes will get caught out. 

 

2) If you make an income in Australia as I do, i.e. some consultancy work, you pay 32.5c in every $, no threshold

 

3) Medicare goes out the window, but I know I have used mine 18 months after being here and it still worked, others have claimed to have kept using theirs for years, the thing I am understanding is that if you don't renew your card every 5 years they cancel it, and that is when you have problems, however as technology leaps forward, it won't be long before they are linked up to immigration and cancellation will probably happen after 183 days automatically, then the onus would be on you to renew it proving you are a resident for tax purposes, if you can.

 

4) You have to return and remain in the country for 2 years to claim portability for the age pension, proving that you are back for good, but after 2 years, portability is automatic.

 

5) Voting rights get cancelled.

 

The above said, if you had a million in the stock market, you pay zero tax as I mention above, now if you have a property, you will pay 32.5c in the $, no threshold and capital gains tax, now if you do the math, you will see that there are clear benefits for those with money who become non residents, they know they are over the assets threshold for the age pension, so no need to return for that, Medicare, well with that money, international private cover is affordable, voting, who cares, and property, well the market won't be going anywhere for the next decade because it had its 5 year run, which was 3 years too long.

 

Hope that covers it all Peter42w

[4MyEgo]

7 hours ago, stud858 said:

Unless you have gone the immigrant visa route and become a permanent member of Thai society then you may lose that residency with Australia. Would be interesting to hear more info on that. As a non immigrant and guest status in thailand your permanent residency will always be Australia.

Not sure what you mean when you say immigration route and permanent member of Thai society, unless you are referring to Thai Citizenship.

 

From my understanding of the legislation that I have read, it states that regardless of visa status, and we know Thailand doesn't have Retirement Visas and Spouse Visas, they are called extensions of stay based on retirement or marriage to a Thai. The legislation looks at your usual place of abode, now that could mean a park, regardless if you are a guest or have a visa, if you are out of the country for more than 183 days in a financial year, your a non resident unless you can prove otherwise, and those ways are on the ATO website.

 

Now to state "as a non immigrant and guest in Thailand your permanent residency will always be Australia" is asking for trouble unless you can prove your status as defined within the legislation, so I would suggest you start reading up on that, remember, I did say, the 183 days rule applies your usual place of abode, this is regardless of visa or guest status.

[4MyEgo]

7 hours ago, Stew41 said:

I've had no problem over the past 2 years 'declaring' to be a non-resident for tax purposes but I did make a clean break from Australia (43yrs old; own business in Phuket). Some advice from accountant was useful but nothing the ATO website doesn't detail. In short:

 

1) sold all residential properties

2) retained super (but don't contribute)

3) canceled private health insurance (& Medicare)

4) have long term rental in Phuket

5) kids in school in Phuket

6) Come back to Melbourne twice a year for no more than 6 weeks in total

7) Retained share market investments in Australia

 

I still do Australian tax returns but very short and sweet.

1) Smart move

2) You can get it when you reach preservation age, between 55-60 tax free if your fund has already taxed you on the way in and 90% do, one condition, you have to tell them that you are retired, otherwise you wait till your 60, no conditions and tax free, no implications for non residents regarding tax unless you tax it before preservation age.

3) If you didn't cancel your Medicare card you would have found that it would still work, and would still work as long as you kept renewing it

7) Smart move zero tax

 

As for doing tax returns in Australia, my advice was that I didn't need to unless I was making an income from Australia which I do on a consultancy basis, so its odd that you still do tax returns, unless you still make income from Australia ?

 

[4MyEgo]

6 hours ago, stud858 said:

What has been the advantage of doing that for you? 

I've always thought it's best to stay as Australian resident,  especially for tax purposes. 

Can you tell us how you remain an Australian resident for tax purposes ?

[4MyEgo]

6 hours ago, stud858 said:

What has been the advantage of doing that for you? 

I've always thought it's best to stay as Australian resident,  especially for tax purposes. 

Can you tell us how you remain an Australian resident for tax purposes ?

[4MyEgo]

5 hours ago, stud858 said:

Some nations allow you to be dual citizens.  I think Italy allows you to retain citizenship if you become a Thai citizen. But some countries renounce you if you take on another country as an immigrant.  I have not  found out about Australia's rules regarding dual citizenship because I myself never want to obtain any other citizenship. IF Australia denounces you because you are a citizen elsewhere you couldn't get residency status just because you declare it. But if I had to guess Australia would allow dual.

You are allowed to hold dual citizenships, you just have to use your Australian passport when entering and exiting.

[stud858]

5 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Can you tell us how you remain an Australian resident for tax purposes ?

I am an Australian citizen with my own permanent residence in Australia.

[4MyEgo]

2 minutes ago, stud858 said:

I am an Australian citizen with my own permanent residence in Australia.

Ok, all that tells us is that your an Australian Citizen with a property in Australia.

 

It doesn't establish your residency for tax purposes.

 

Do you live in Thailand for more than 183 days (6 months) in a financial year ?

 

[stud858]

2 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Ok, all that tells us is that your an Australian Citizen with a property in Australia.

 

It doesn't establish your residency for tax purposes.

 

Do you live in Thailand for more than 183 days (6 months) in a financial year ?

 

Yes, I'm in Thailand for more than 6 months. 

[4MyEgo]

Just now, stud858 said:

Yes, I'm in Thailand for more than 6 months. 

Is that the only reason you claim to be an Australian resident, i.e. by owning a property in Australia ?

 

Do you work in Thailand ?

 

Be interesting to know how you can claim to be an Australian resident for tax purposes, other than having a property in Australia, just curious.

[stud858]

8 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Is that the only reason you claim to be an Australian resident, i.e. by owning a property in Australia ?

 

Do you work in Thailand ?

 

Be interesting to know how you can claim to be an Australian resident for tax purposes, other than having a property in Australia, just curious.

https://www.ato.gov.au/Calculators-and-tools/Host/?anchor=DORSLA&anchor=DORSLA/questions#DORSLA/questions

 

The tax office says I am resident for tax after filling in their form. 

 

I am not working. But that shouldnt make a difference.

[4MyEgo]

5 minutes ago, stud858 said:

https://www.ato.gov.au/Calculators-and-tools/Host/?anchor=DORSLA&anchor=DORSLA/questions#DORSLA/questions

 

The tax office says I am resident for tax after filling in their form. 

Then you are a Australian resident for tax purposes, presumably. 

[scorecard]

On 8/3/2018 at 8:23 AM, Nemises said:

Yes, it's available on eBay however I just take back a few hundred sachets from Thailand to avoid having to go on eBay during my lengthy returns to Aus. I'm just curious as to why no Aus shops (in any state) sell it?

 Processed food item, can you easily get past OZ customs check?

[Nemises]

 Processed food item, can you easily get past OZ customs check?

Sure can. See post # 38 .... 10kg of 3-in-1 coffee is now allowed to be bought into Aus from any country. Happy dayz [emoji3]

[Mickmick]

45 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Can you tell us how you remain an Australian resident for tax purposes ?

You just declare yourself one when doing your tax return..........

I don't know if they are still on the ATO website, but they used to have a number of scenarios for resident/non-resident for tax purposes.....one was somebody who wanted to live in Kenya but could not get permanent residency, only visitor visas. That person was still a resident of Australia for tax purposes according to the ATO but if they ever got permanent residency in Kenya they would then become a non-resident. To my mind, and that of my tax advisor back in Sydney, 99.9% of us expats are in a similar situation as we have to get visa extensions and could get kicked out any time, only 0.1% (if that) have PR here and would then be a non-resident of Aust.

There is also a question in your tax return about "do you have more than $50,000 in overseas assets?' ......answer NO for that or it may raise questions.

[4MyEgo]

2 minutes ago, Mickmick said:

You just declare yourself one when doing your tax return..........

I don't know if they are still on the ATO website, but they used to have a number of scenarios for resident/non-resident for tax purposes.....one was somebody who wanted to live in Kenya but could not get permanent residency, only visitor visas. That person was still a resident of Australia for tax purposes according to the ATO but if they ever got permanent residency in Kenya they would then become a non-resident. To my mind, and that of my tax advisor back in Sydney, 99.9% of us expats are in a similar situation as we have to get visa extensions and could get kicked out any time, only 0.1% (if that) have PR here and would then be a non-resident of Aust.

There is also a question in your tax return about "do you have more than $50,000 in overseas assets?' ......answer NO for that or it may raise questions.

Times have obviously changed.

 

As for your tax advisor, I believe he has given you a bum steer, i.e. has ill informed you, but I am not going to be the one trying to tell you otherwise, the ATO has enough info on their website, but I will tell you this much, the key words are "your usual place of abode'

[Mickmick]

3 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Times have obviously changed.

 

As for your tax advisor, I believe he has given you a bum steer, i.e. has ill informed you, but I am not going to be the one trying to tell you otherwise, the ATO has enough info on their website, but I will tell you this much, the key words are "your usual place of abode'

You may well be right nowadays .........I hardly ever used the same address 2 years in a row, I've had an itinerant lifestyle and work for many years now so i probably have about 30 usual places of abode on my file ?

I usually try to return home around this time of year and submit my tax return using the street address of whatever hotel i'm staying at as a residential address. Once I hired a campervan and went on a road trip, so i put 'no fixed address (grey nomad)' and it went through ok ?

[4MyEgo]

1 minute ago, Mickmick said:

You may well be right nowadays .........I hardly ever used the same address 2 years in a row, I've had an itinerant lifestyle and work for many years now so i probably have about 30 usual places of abode on my file ?

I usually try to return home around this time of year and submit my tax return using the street address of whatever hotel i'm staying at as a residential address. Once I hired a campervan and went on a road trip, so i put 'no fixed address (grey nomad)' and it went through ok ?

I like the sound of that, no same address for more than two years, a beautiful loophole, you got it down pat ?‍?

[stud858]

10 minutes ago, Mickmick said:

You may well be right nowadays .........I hardly ever used the same address 2 years in a row, I've had an itinerant lifestyle and work for many years now so i probably have about 30 usual places of abode on my file ?

I usually try to return home around this time of year and submit my tax return using the street address of whatever hotel i'm staying at as a residential address. Once I hired a campervan and went on a road trip, so i put 'no fixed address (grey nomad)' and it went through ok ?

I guess that's why they leave you to decide your usual address.  Living in hotels is unusual to me but usual to you. 

[Mickmick]

1 minute ago, stud858 said:

I guess that's why they leave you to decide your usual address.  Living in hotels is unusual to me but usual to you. 

I only put in the street address, no mention of a hotel name.

[Peterw42]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Being a non resident for tax purposes and investing your money in the Australian stock market means you pay NO TAX on fully franked dividends, i.e. dividends that have already had the 30% company tax taken out prior to paying you your dividend entitlement.

Yes, but as a tax resident, I also get back the 30% tax as my dividends are never more than the 18k tax free threshhold.

[Peterw42]

2 hours ago, Mickmick said:

You just declare yourself one when doing your tax return..........

I don't know if they are still on the ATO website, but they used to have a number of scenarios for resident/non-resident for tax purposes.....one was somebody who wanted to live in Kenya but could not get permanent residency, only visitor visas. That person was still a resident of Australia for tax purposes according to the ATO but if they ever got permanent residency in Kenya they would then become a non-resident. To my mind, and that of my tax advisor back in Sydney, 99.9% of us expats are in a similar situation as we have to get visa extensions and could get kicked out any time, only 0.1% (if that) have PR here and would then be a non-resident of Aust.

There is also a question in your tax return about "do you have more than $50,000 in overseas assets?' ......answer NO for that or it may raise questions.

My ex wife back in Australia is a Tax guru and that is her take on resident/non resident, a big part of being a non-resident is of course being a resident somewhere else, if you are not a resident elsewhere you are just outside of Australia and still a tax resident.

[Will27]

14 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

My ex wife back in Australia is a Tax guru and that is her take on resident/non resident, a big part of being a non-resident is of course being a resident somewhere else, if you are not a resident elsewhere you are just outside of Australia and still a tax resident.

I'm pretty sure that's incorrect.

 

Just for example, if you're not a resident of Thailand, that won't make you a resident

of Australia (for tax purposes) if you are living in Thailand for 50 weeks a year.

[stud858]

12 minutes ago, Will27 said:

I'm pretty sure that's incorrect.

 

Just for example, if you're not a resident of Thailand, that won't make you a resident

of Australia (for tax purposes) if you are living in Thailand for 50 weeks a year.

From reading a whole heap on the ATO website I reckon it is true. 

[stud858]

Also, I was under the impression that there is a tax treaty with Thailand.  But the ATO website clearly states you must declare all foreign income. No ifs or butts about it, except for a few exceptional cases and of course the tax free threshold.

[Will27]

3 minutes ago, stud858 said:

From reading a whole heap on the ATO website I reckon it is true. 

Well show me a link that says it is and I'll believe you.

[stud858]

1 minute ago, Will27 said:

Well show me a link that says it is and I'll believe you.

https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/international-tax-for-individuals/work-out-your-tax-residency/

 

 

There are many inter twined issues.

Read through it all and if you come across something that suggests he loses his residency status for being out of the country for a certain amount of time then we can address it and discuss the wording/meaning 

On the supporting argument side. It's all on the website and the way I read it the main way to lose your resident is by becoming an immigrant of another country or stating yourself your usual address as being outside of Oz.

 

[Will27]

6 minutes ago, stud858 said:

https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/international-tax-for-individuals/work-out-your-tax-residency/

 

 

There are many inter twined issues.

Read through it all and if you come across something that suggests he loses his residency status for being out of the country for a certain amount of time then we can address it and discuss the wording/meaning 

On the supporting argument side. It's all on the website and the way I read it the main way to lose your resident is by becoming an immigrant of another country or stating yourself your usual address as being outside of Oz.

 

This is just for starters: The 183-day test: If you're actually present in Australia for more than half the income year, whether continuously or with breaks, you may be said to have a constructive residence in Australia, unless it can be established that your usual place of abode is outside Australia and you have no intention of taking up residence here.

 

Using the scenario that Peterw42 and you subscribe to, I could be living in Thailand for 51 weeks a

year and because I'm unable to get residency in Thailand, I'm a resident in Australia for tax purposes.

 

Am I reading that correctly?

[stud858]

8 minutes ago, Will27 said:

This is just for starters: The 183-day test: If you're actually present in Australia for more than half the income year, whether continuously or with breaks, you may be said to have a constructive residence in Australia, unless it can be established that your usual place of abode is outside Australia and you have no intention of taking up residence here.

 

Using the scenario that Peterw42 and you subscribe to, I could be living in Thailand for 51 weeks a

year and because I'm unable to get residency in Thailand, I'm a resident in Australia for tax purposes.

 

Am I reading that correctly?

Yes.  "Usual residence "and "the residence that you are usually at" are not the same thing. 

The ATO says something along the lines of The person gets to choose their usual residence as they see fit if there are multiple and you have not immigrated os. Also they discuss what constitutes an abode, and domicile on the website. 

 

Otherwise the ATO would have been more specific to time measurements and how they relate to usual place of abode imo. If they wanted a clear cut time frame system to denote residence.

 

The 183 day rule,  thus, does not apply.

So yes even though in Thailand for 50 weeks your usual residency can still be kept as oz. 

[Will27]

6 minutes ago, stud858 said:

Yes.  "Usual residence "and "the residence that you are usually at" are not the same thing. 

The ATO says something along the lines of The person gets to choose their usual residence as they see fit if there are multiple and you have not immigrated os. Also they discuss what constitutes an abode, and domicile on the website. 

 

Otherwise the ATO would have been more specific to time measurements and how they relate to usual place of abode imo. If they wanted a clear cut time frame system to denote residence.

 

The 183 day rule,  thus, does not apply.

So yes even though in Thailand for 50 weeks your usual residency can still be kept as oz. 

Sorry, you aren't making much sense to me, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

If you're living in Thailand for 50 weeks a year (for example), in 99% of cases, you aren't a resident for taxation purposes.